Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL

bodble2

I think the TL is more luxurious than the G35. But is it more upscale? Hard to say. I guess it depends on whether you associate upscale only with luxury, or if you include sportiness. Also, I think for many people, the "infiniti" brand is 1/2 a notch above the "Acura" badge in the prestige scale.

chrisboth

"Last year, a 9th Circuit panel revived the suit on a 2-1 vote. "Drawing all reasonable inferences in favor of Suzuki," a jury could conclude that Consumer Reports had set out to prove the Samurai was dangerous, said Judge A. Wallace Tashima in Los Angeles"

excerpt from the Daily Camera.

Nothing can be proved probably so my "fact" quote should be reduced to "opinion" but regardless, the up and fledling non-profit did a great thing intentionally or not to sell magazines. If it's true a jury could conclude they were tring to roll it then no one can say they didn't try to roll it to make money and sell mags. There is a fine line between ethics and selling mags...

PS here are some links KD

http://www.diskdrive.co.za/safety/enc_bmw_3s(98+).html

http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/2226.html

http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/2003MidS.html

Notice the three stars - i think thats a bad as it gets.

Now for some on topic stuff: The acura doesn't have these issues no brake issues or oversteer issues so maybe it's the best car!

chrisboth

PLease see me in the 330 vs G35 thread - before the moderator figures out my IP address and makes me pay for going off topic.

Ok it was read only so i'll start a new thread

klayfish

amplified? Here? On a forum? Nah.... ;D

kdshapiro

chrisboth - unfortunately for Suzuki, CR will be ultimately cleared. CR has never lost a case especially when they show the footage of these vehicles in court.

On ratings, a 3 series is recommended as a best pick taking all ratings into account. As a matter of fact if you review one of the links I sent you, the 3er got a better rating than a Volvo.

pat

C'mon, folks - enough.

Let's get back on topic.

uncledavid

The new reliability ratings from CR are out, and they actually muddy the picture quite a bit.

The G35 is above average in reliability.

The Saab 9-3 and 9-5 are both average.

The Audi A4 is below average, but the data don't really look horrible.

The BMW 3-series is back on the recommended list, with average reliability.

IMO, these new findings suggest that you can pretty much toss out the issue of reliability when choosing among these vehicles. All should hold up pretty well.

bodble2

I find that the CR data don't seem to have any cohesion with their reliability recommendations.

chrisboth

The ratings seem subjective and impossible to reconcile from year to year. But since they are so well recieved by many, the G should be doing very well since it rates above averge even with the deadly and scandoulous oversteer (that no one complains about).

On topic: The G and TL seem to have taken strides to excel against thier german counterparts. Seems like the owner of either can breathe a sigh of relief now that they dont have to buy a 3 to feel safe.

uncledavid

There is one problem with CR's data - they do not collapse across years. They survey drivers and ask "what problems have you had during the last year." So, in the year 2002, many 3-series drivers reported problems. This year, fewer drivers reported problems.

The way I interpret these data is to save the car issues over several years. I can then look back and see consistent themes. For the most part, over the last five years, Acura and Infiniti products have consistently been well above average, the BMW 3 and 5 series have consistently been about average (below average last year, but I discount that finding), and Audi has been a bit below average.

Saabs are a bit hard to interpret, but the available data suggests those vehicles should do OK as well.

So, I'm backing down from my earlier arguments about Beemer's reliability. I think Saab 9-3, TL, G35, and BMW 325/330 should all be fine picks. Get the one you like most.

FYI: The new data I just reported are not yet published. I got them from their website (I have subscriber access).

kdshapiro

chrisboth-CR still rates the G's emergency handling to be below that of the competition. I would be very wary of those handling characteristics. One still might want a 3 series for it's superior handling.

chrisboth

Send me a private message at VZE1PA52@verizon.net and I can tell you my opinions on the G and 3. There is no where in the edmunds boards for this to be discussed anymore?????

uncledavid

I agree, Kdshapiro.

Frankly, I also think the G35 is a notch below the Beemer in day-to-day driving as well (less driver feedback).

I should learn not to be a slave to CR. If CR had recommeneded the 3-series last year, I'd probably be driving one now!

kdshapiro

uncledavid - I was looking at CRs Auto section website as well. It makes for interesting and sometimes confusing reading. Frankly they do a difficult job in the way they categorize the different aspects of reliability and durability. That's why I think one needs to inject a little bit of anecdotal evidence in order to further their analysis.

uncledavid

I agree, Kdshapiro.

Frankly, I also think the G35 is a notch below the Beemer in day-to-day driving as well (less driver feedback).

I should learn not to be a slave to CR. If CR had recommeneded the 3-series last year, I'd probably be driving one now!

chrisboth

You are hanging by a thread and you still have a heartbeat....you could survive a nuclear attack I think. Good effort to support the car you own. Just be sure you drive the 3 on CR's track only as that seems to be the only place where the 3 excels in handling. Oh and don't forget if the VDC is on then all those superior handling numbers would still be in tact right? You know where track times, G tests and slalom all show the G with surperior times in every publication ever printed.

Host can we please have our 3 v G thread back so we dont have to hijack the gratuitous acura folks thread.

pat

Creating a new one is fine. Someone said they were going to do that.

Meanwhile, if there is no more TL vs. G35 comparison talk, maybe we should retire this one?

kdshapiro

chrisboth - there is a new thread on the sedans comparisons called 330i(ZHP) vs. G35. Let the comparisions begin.

ihaberman

These cars are tops on the list for many people in the $35-$45K entry level lux category. The TL just came out and needs to be compared against the G35 as more and more people being seeing them on the streets, and living in them as owners. I for one am still deciding b/w the two and am waiting for the G35x (AWD) to make my decision so I can properly compare foul-weather vehicles.

jaydoll

UncleDavid,

Regarding your opinion ofthe BMW 3 series vs the G, have you ever driven the G-35 coupe 6 speed?

montreallou

Since the TL is a new model and there is still much to be learned about it, AND since I haven't been able to decide between the two yet , can we leave this going a bit longer.
Else I'll have nothing to do at 2 am anymore!

montreallou

Has anyone read any advance information on crash test results, between the two cars? They both say things like "the manufacturer expects....", but does any body have anything solid or is it still too early.

I have to choose a car, my Volvo lease is coming due and I need to get my life back.

I need a differentiating factor.

I appreciate everyones input by the way.

jrock65

G35 vs. TL in reliability? hard to tell at this point, but history of the parent companies suggests that it'll be about equal.

kds,
i don't own a honda, acura, nissan, or infiniti. since you go around stating that it is generally accepted that the 3 series is at the top of the heap, why can't you admit that it is generally accepted that acuras and infinitis have better reliability than bimmers? well i guess i can't fault you for defending the car you drive...

jrock65

i used to prefer the outside look of the TL to the G, but now i think i prefer the look of the G over the TL. The TL seems too conservative now for some reason. I still prefer the interior look of the TL over that of the G.

pat

as long as folks want to talk about the G35 and the TL here, there's no reason to stop. I just wondered if folks had run out of things to say since we were so focused on off-topic subjects...

By the way, I did remove an off-topic post just now - seems like that may be the only way to keep us on track.

golfgod2

I would also love everyone's opinions. I own a '02 TLS and have started shopping around. I am shell shocked by the lease prices on the new TL and while I am pleased with the car but not blown away. I like the G35 better on the outside but am concerned about it looking cheap inside. I think while most of the exterior of the TL looks great, I think the front end is weak and that is one of the most important parts of the exterior. Also, while I like to rationalize that FWD is adequate, deep down I still notice the difference and prefer RWD. I live in LA and actually have a fun ride to work every day as I commute through a canyon and down pacific coast highway. To be honest I haven't driven the G yet so I think I''ll do that today. I did test drive a Volvo V60R yesterday - wow was that fun!!! )). That's a little pricey but if money factors every come down again w/ Volvo, I may jump at that. Would love everyone's opinions.

kevin111

The G35's front and rear bumper had expensive damage to them when a 5mph bumper test was conducted.

I believe though that the G35 would excell in a major accident (though do not have the numbers) since the Skyline did exceedingly well in Japan, and Nissan has become much better in major impacts.

Do not have the links though.

uncledavid

Nope. Never driven the MT version of the G35. I test drove that vehicle 3 times, but it was in the days when the sedan version did not yet come with a manual tranny.

I've test driven the Beemer, Audi, and TSX with manual trannys and loved all of them. I'm sure the transmission in the Infiniti is high quality as well (every time I've driven a manual in a Nissan product, I've been satisfied).

Having driven and owned Acura/Honda products for years, and having come from a family that owns a BMW, I have a certain bias. But, my personal opinion is that the 3-series offers a balance of ride, handling, and braking that is above the rest of the vehicles in this bracket. The V6 is not as sweet as Infiniti's VQ, nor it it as powerful as the TL. But, I do think the overall package in terms of handling, braking, and ride is more impressive.

Now, there are other issues to consider here. I think the TL and G35 will both be more reliable, and more vehicles offer more bang for the buck. And, in terms of customer support, Infiniti is going to be light years beyond Acura and probably BMW.

I think any of these cars is a great pick, with each having strengths and weaknesses. I'd love to tell you that the TL is clearly superior to the G35, or the 3-series is superior to both. I just don't believe that. I think they're all fine picks.

chrisboth

is a straight six. It's smoother than a VQ perhaps - just not as enthusiastic. The VQ is one of the best balanced v6s but an I-6 is inherintly smoother. Toyota makes as good of an inline 6 as BMW but theirs is kinda soft and not torqee enough. You'd think they could get more HP with the 3.3 but the ratings are almost identical to 3.0.

uncledavid

I always make that mistake (calling the Beemer's engine a V6). But, yup, you are right. It is an inline 6.

I don't know that I agree the BMW engine is smoother. I think the TL, BMW, and G35 all offer highly refined engines. The engine in the G35 just has more pull.

ihaberman

Drove the TL and G35 back to back today...here are my impressions:

Thoughts Going In:
-- As I've posted before, I liked the exterior of the G35 more than the TL; looked like a newer car even though it's been out for 1 1/2 years now. Thought the interior was cheaper looking than the TL, but satisfactory.

-- Thought that two Japanese luxury/sport cars were going to drive similarly, so was leaning more towards the G (actually wanted to buy the G deep down).

Test Drive of G:
-- Drove sport package since I liked the interior with the titanium better than without. The engine was much louder than the TL, and the ride much harsher. Has a ton of low end torque though, which was great. The plastic around the driver information center kept catching my eye - would've liked to have richer looking materials in my direct line of vision. In the end, I felt like I was driving a bigger, more expensive version of my Eagle Talon.

Test Drive of TL:
-- While the exterior doesn't excite me much (it looks in part like a combination of Pontiac Bonneville from the front and Chrysler Cirrus from the back), the interior is a class above the G35. The seats are firmer, but not as firm as an A4 or 330 (just right actually). As I looked around, I felt like I was simply in a more expensive car. The drive itself was quite nice. Great pickup, without the noise or road harshness of the G35. Seemingly a perfect compromise.

When I got back to the dealership, I played around with the nav system/information unit. Quite intuitive/easy to use.

In the end, though the G35 and even A4 look better to me, I think the TL provides the best overall package, at a price that will prove to be $2.5k cheaper once AWD on the G35 becomes available (and thus, one can compare two cars that will go in bad weather - important here in Chicago).

Now I will look or wait for a decent price or good options thrown in by the dealer...am also anxious to read a major magazine comparison test to confirm my objective/subjective feelings.

golfgod2k3

Nice analysis. I feel very similar about both cars. I finally test drove a G today and came away with similar impressions. I really like ther exterior of the G (the back end could use some work) but the interior just seemed too cheap. It was a lot of fun to drive, raw power, great handling, etc. Compared with the TL, I think you get about 80-90% of the fun factor in a much more refined, quite, luxurious vehicle. The interior in the TL is much nicer.

txdriver

ihaberman, what do you mean by "... I think the TL provides the best overall package, at a price that will prove to be $2.5k cheaper once AWD on the G35 becomes available ..."

The TL does not have AWD, yes...?

We are also shopping these 3 (G35, TL and A4/S4 for my wife).

klayfish

txdriver,
I won't speak for him, but I think what he is saying is that the AWD G35, when equipped similar to the TL will be more expensive. You are correct, the TL is front drive only. But keep in mind once the G35x is out for several months, dealers will be willing to deal.

We didn't look at the A4/S4, she didn't like the look of it. But to my surprise, she chose the G35 over the TL. I agree that the Acura is about 85% of the driving fun of the G35. And if the car is never pushed hard, she may hardly ever notice the driving difference.

kdshapiro

Winter driving conditions would make a difference about how I would perceive these two cars. Living in Chicago, for example, and not wanting to put on snows, the TL would be the overall choice.

Having lived through a bad NE winter with RWD, I can safely say snows are mandatory.

ihaberman

TXDriver - in response to #352, in order to compare properly, at least for us cold-weather-living-folks, I am comparing an AWD G35 to the FWD TL. I likely wouldn't buy the RWD G out of fear of the snow, even though it would probably make a difference only 10 days a year. In the end, if a car I like comes in AWD -- i.e., BMW, G35, A4 -- I would compare only that version. That being said, the G35x will be around $38K (incl premium, sport, nav, AWD) vs. $35K for a similarly equipped TL.

klayfish

That is another consideration in our car choice. The TL is FWD. Our '01TL is awful in the snow, but I suspect that is the tires.

Do you think the RWD G35 will do OK in the snow? How much of a difference do the Blizzacks make? Or would it be worth it to just go with the $1800 AWD option, even though it only snows 5 times a year here. The current TL should be an improvement in the snow over the old model, as it appears to have better tires now.

ihaberman

If I were to go with the G, I would definitely spend the money on the AWD - but it depends on where you live. I happen to live on side streets in a city, and park in an outdoor lot. I need to make sure I can get out of my neighborhood. I've had an AWD car for the past 11 years, and I couldn't imagine parallel parking without the AWD. The TL, while not perfect, at least will suffice. As for RWD with snow tires, the good folks at tirerack will tell you it makes a big difference, but I suspect it's only on flat roads with no hills.

bryann

i have the same concerns for the upcoming winter. this car will be mainly for the wife and we have 2 small kids that we can't afford to be stuck. anyway, i am replacing a 1998 maxima with either the G or the TL. the FWD maxima has been terrible in the winter and we live in a hilly neighborhood. i also suspect mostly due to poor tires. the AWD is very intriguing, but i must admit that the TL is really starting to grow on me. i think from an enthusiast point of view, i would still get the G, but the practical, everyday driver that my wife is, the TL has a nicer interior with nicer features, IMO. i still believe either car will be a very good choice for the price range and type of car. this discussion has a lot of good points and keeps me swaying from one to the other depending on the day. oh well, such is life.

ihaberman

If you live in a hilly neighborhood, the AWD option is nice to have...though my folks live up in the hills of NY and their FWD Lexus and old FWD Caddy do just fine. The wifey might enjoy the quieter, more luxurious ride of the TL though - as i've mentioned, the G is louder and much less refined in terms of the road. To me, though the exterior of the TL doesn't excite me a whole lot, I feel as if the TL has the best overall package to offer in the class.

bodble2

It's interesting that you said your 98 Maxima was awful in the snow. I had a 95 Maxima SE that performed very well in the snow. I did have snow tires. Maybe that was the difference? But I remember one winter when we had a belly-scaping (the car's belly, not mine!) snowfall, and the Max chugged right through the side streets. It had a few interesting moments, but it made it. I just credited it to the LSD (not the drug!) and the snow tires.

One thing about the new TL though that may negatively affects its snow performance is the wider tires.

robertr

I had a 1997 Maxima SE with Toyo tires and a 2000 Maxima SE with 17" Bridgestone all-season performance tires. They were both fine in the snow.

I only had one day last March after getting my G35 to experience ice and snow conditions - an ice storm two days after getting the car. I am expecting it will do OK this winter with the all-season tires and the VDC/traction control (which the Maximas did not have).

bodble2

Your Max had the LSD though, did it not? That'll act more more less like traction control.

I've never had a RWD car with traction control, but I have some doubt that the G35 will handle ice and snow with only all-seasons.

chrisboth

THe G works just fine in the 6-8 inches you get around these parts. Any more than that and you may want to get a ride. It's no FWD but if you take travelled roads and go slow - you'll be fine. PS you can't stop any faster in a quattro so go slow even if you have fwd in 6-8 inches.

kdshapiro

Here in New Jersey - Gs and 3-ers were stuck equally in 5 or more inches of snow during last years snows. RWD does not work very nicely in these conditions. The only 3ers that seem to have an easier go of it were those with snow tires.

chrisboth is right - AWD/4WD does not help you stop better, it only helps you from getting stuck, which to me anyway is more important, as nothing is worse then being stuck on a road in the middle being a potential target. Living in the NE there are a lot of hills to deal with as well. (The only exception is the Jeep 4WD system - QuadraDrive, which actually will find the wheels with the most grip even on deacceleration.)

klayfish

chrisboth,
It doesn't snow THAT much here in Philly, as you know. But you also know that the road plowing isn't always great. You're right, that AWD is no different than anything else when it comes to stopping. That's where the ABS w/brake distribution comes into play. It's the getting going and keeping going that AWD is superior. It's also more sure footed in rain. But in snow, I remember watching the 3 series and E classes slipping and sliding, even with the traction control. Not that they won't go at all, but seemed to have difficulty. I'm sure the Blizzacks will make a huge difference. But right now, I'm leaning towards the AWD. How's this for rationalizing?...

The Blizzacks will be about $750 w/out rims, $1100 with rims. If I buy her the RWD car and it is brutal in snow, I can buy the Blizzacks to see if they will make a big difference. If they don't, then we're completely out of options.

If I buy the AWD, it'll cost $1800, so that's $700-$1000 more than the RWD with Blizzacks. It should be able to get around in the snow with no problem on it's standard all-season tires. If it really can't, we'll save up and buy a set of Blizzacks. Then we'd have an AWD and snow tires. If that don't work, I'm buying her a Hummer with a lift kit and knobbies!! I'd really hate to spend $750 on snow tires after buying AWD, but I guess that would be much easier than the other option.

Not bad, huh?? ;-D

Oops, not to get too far off topic of this thread. I don't think the TL can be compared to the G35x, just a different car. FWD is good, so long as you have good tires. But our '01TL with the standard tires is pretty bad. If you get the new TL, I'd recommend Blizzacks if you live in bad weather areas.

Steve

kdshapiro

I've survived for at least 12 years with some type of FWD and all-season tires. Snow falls where I would have taken an FWD car out, I left the old RWD home last year and went with the SUV with the R/T tires. The roads were very well plowed last year, but getting out of the development up the steep hills with 6 inches of snow was tough for almost every vehicle that did not have 4WD/AWD and good tires.

kahunah

I agree that no matter what you drive (FWD, RWD or AWD) proper winter tires will make all the difference in bad weather. That's why I'm going that route for my '04 TL.

Blizzacks are excellent tires but I'm getting Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 or M2 performance winter tires. They were rated higher than the Blizzack LM-22s in both Consumer Reports and TireRack.

jaydoll

My experience with a 2001 Max in the snow was much different than yours. The Bridgesones had very little traction in the snow. And regarding traction control, all it does is kill power to the wheels if they slip, nothing more.

kahunah- If you go with the Dunlop winter tires are you going with 16" steel rims or Acura rims? if oyu Acura, it could get very pricy.

kahunah

The plan is to switch the OEM summer tires to the winter Dunlops on the existing 17" Acura rims for now. In the Spring, I have the option to buy another set of 17" Acura rims for the summer tires at dealer cost plus 5% (part of my original negotiations when I bought the car).