Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL

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Comments

  • chrisbothchrisboth Member Posts: 493
    The exterior of the G gets more looks than a swedish model in downtown Raleigh wearing nothing but chaps. I haven't seen a car get so much attention in a long time. I get comments every time I drive in town as pedistrians pass and every time I get gas. I bought it for the power and RWD, but hey, the icing is the nice people I now meet who share thier enthusism with me. On the other hand the acura will get plenty of attention for a while...but the G buzz continues for 1.5 years after intro with no signs of letting down. I would think sales momentum is actually getting better now for G as the masses who can figure out what it is start to recognize it as a good alternative to similarly priced cars.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Acura is conservative, G35 is more modern. Which do you prefer? The G35 is growing on me but there is nothing not to like about the TL. The TSX is nice as well, but conservative. The RSX has much better styling.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    :)
  • bimmer97bimmer97 Member Posts: 12
    on the inside that is. the tl looks awesome inside and just average on the outside. in my opinion i think the tl looks likea honda on the outside. The front and back is honda ish the side view is nice but is that enough imo.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    On your new TL purchase. Do let us know after a few days what your initial owner impressions are.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I love the exterior styling on the TL and on the G35. I really couldn't pick one car or the other based on the exterior, because they are both really nice.

    I also fall more in love with the styling on my TSX ever day, but that is another issue!

    My main complaint with the exterior on the TL is that I don't like the color selection. I prefer light colored cars. Easier to maintain and not as hot in the sun. But, Acura really offers only two light colors - white and silver. I wish there were some interesting light greens (like the teal colore on the early 90's Accords). If they had the Meteor Silver that I have on my TSX (which is more like a silver blue) that would be ideal. B
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    But I agree about the skimpy colour selections for Acura/Honda. I look at the colour charts of the other manufacturers and man, they got a whole rainbow to choose from!
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    It is the only way. These boards may sway you one way, but your senses will ultimately decide for you.

    My guess if you really like your M3, go with a 330i ZHP (Performance Package). Test drive the others, but that car is probably more in line with your particular liking. It is about as fast as your M3.
  • bimmer97bimmer97 Member Posts: 12
    I cant find any zhp here in orlando. g35 felt good. 04tl didn't give me the kick in the pants. It probably has the power but didn't feel it the way i could in the g or my m3. i think the tl is a luxury sedan trying to have performance while the g and beemer are sport sedans attempting to add some luxury.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "i think the tl is a luxury sedan trying to have performance while the g and beemer are sport sedans attempting to add some luxury."

    bimmer97 - that was a very astute comment, I think you hit the nail on the head.
  • kahunahkahunah Member Posts: 448
    Will do.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Member Posts: 493
    Take a canadian highway to I 40 and head east. Don't expect much chap action until next haloween tho. I live in philly and get friendly people stopping me all the time to chat about the G. In NC the folks wont look at you unless you drive a camaro SS or a pickup - or a stang.
    It's the best place in the south other than that...especially after seeing the aforementioned this weekend in a club.
  • klayfishklayfish Member Posts: 48
    Bimmer97, that's exactly what I've been saying. The G35 is performance first, luxury second, and the TL is vice versa.

    Ponder this one...we again went to the Acura dealer over the weekend (trying to get the best price for her '01 TL) and we looked at the '04 TL again. I asked her about the interior, and she said she preferred the G35 interior. Puzzled, I asked her why. She said she felt like she was almost swallowed up by the TL interior and it pushed all of it's techno bits at you. i.e. the center console was too far forward and made her feel confined. She liked the G35 because it was not as close to you or "in your face". I had never thought of it like that, as I very much prefered the interior of the TL to the G35. But after looking at both cars again back to back, I see what she is saying. I still like the TL interior much better, but it is more prominent. Anyone else notice this?
  • bimmer97bimmer97 Member Posts: 12
    it look this way. I myself don't dislike the G35 but like the tl interior better just because it looks richer I looked at the black interior tl while i looked at a tan g35 interior.
    would i buy the tl just for the inside probably not..... but the horror stories regarding the g35 brakes have me a little concerned.
  • tedescm1tedescm1 Member Posts: 309
    Do they make a 17 inch tire with a larger sidewall and more tread?
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I'm no tire expert. However, I see plenty of BMW 3-series around town riding on MXV4s. I point that out because Beemer's have excellent dynamic characteristics. It is possible to make a car that handles quite well and doens't have stiff low profile tires. It is just that low profile tires are in vogue now.
  • kahunahkahunah Member Posts: 448
    What your wife experienced (and perhaps wasn't prepared for) in the TL's interior design is the result of effective ergonomic engineering -- something Acura has done much better than Infiniti, in my opinion. This design science emphasizes efficiency of human movement to enhance comfort and safety. In a vehicle equipped with complex systems such as navigation, this design approach becomes especially more important.

    Some people with claustrophobic tendencies can't handle it but I happen to like the cozy feel of the TL's interior. When I'm cruising at highway speeds, I don't want to be hunting and reaching for buttons and switches -- something you would be doing more of in a G35, I assure you.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Acura better reliability than Infiniti? Is there a documented comparison for this? From what I can gather, Acura, Infiniti and Lexus are all equally up there in reliability.

    It's really hard to gauge this anyway, especially since some problems are costlier/ more dangerous than other problems, even though they are considered "one" problem. For example, the transmission woes of some previous Accords and TL's are pretty significant problems.

    I read somewhere (I think CR) that the late Infiniti G20 was the most "reliable" car ever, in terms of fewest number of problems. Goes to show that reliability alone doesn't sell cars.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "Infiniti G20 was the most "reliable" car ever, in terms of fewest number of problems"

    Probably because they only sold a few of them :)
  • gregory28gregory28 Member Posts: 174
    You make some good points. The Consumer Reports article I'm referring to used reliability reports from 1998, 1999 and 2000. These are based on surveys they have their customers fill out and send in. I was surprised that Infinity wasn't even on the list. I guess they didn't have a large enough sampling. The tranny problem is definitely one I'm concerned about.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    "The Consumer Reports article I'm referring to used reliability reports from 1998, 1999 and 2000. "

    - The Nissan Maxima was the top rated family sedan from '98-2000. Assuming Infinity will have similiar reliability numbers, I would have a great deal of faith in the reliability of an Infinity.
  • gregory28gregory28 Member Posts: 174
    I think the reliability of the Infiniti will be excellent also. Reliability was only one factor in my decision for buying the TL
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    And that is part of the reason that both are such desirable cars in this segment. The overall packages compete with Audi and BMW without all the headaches and cost of upkeep.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The G may be reliable. Not the G will be reliable. TheY may be not have the headaches, not the G will not have the headaches. The BMW may be unreliable, not the BMW will be unreliable. Maybe reliable and maybe unreliable is the same as a half-full or half-empty glass.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    I guess I should not mention that BMW was considered to be the most reliable German manufacturer of cars according to CR, and was rated above the average over a 3-year period. This is with the X5 being a reliability disaster, and now having problems with the 7-series (electronic glitches).

    Again, generally when myself, my friends, or my relatives buy a car that is rated better-than-average reliability wise, we have had good luck with the car. When we have bought a car that was average or below average, we have had problems.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    We're only talking probabilities here. However, the probabilities are high.

    According to CR, EVERY Acura model ever made has average to above average reliability and Acura has one of the lowest overall problem rates in the industry.

    Likewise, EVERY Infiniti model ever made has average to above average reliability and Infiniti has an extremely low rate of problems. But, these are averages across all vehicles. YMMV. Any car can have problems and any car can turn out to be flawless.

    In contrast, for BMW, every model is below average to far below average beside the 5 series. And, several BMW models are down at the bottom of all vehicles surveyed by CR.

    So, yeah, we're talking probabilities. But, the probabilities favor Acura and Infiniti in a convincing manner.

    Based on the available data,we are on strong ground predicting that the G35 and TL will hold up well over time, and that some competitors (like BMW and Audi) will not.
  • gregory28gregory28 Member Posts: 174
    All good points as usual from our favorite uncle.

    Amazingly the 5 series was rated by Consumer Reports as "the best sedan made for a combination of sportiness and luxury" I believe was the quote. That was in an issue early in the year. High praise from a company that usually doesn't have high praise for expensive automobiles.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    Well, I've never driven a BMW 5-series. However, my dad has a three series (330). That is the best car I've ever driven. I'm amazed at how well it handles and accelerates while the ride quality is nearly ideal. Nice and firm, but composed even on choppy roads. It has great brakes as well (the Achillies heal of many Honda products).

    Reliablity and performance are not the same issue. IMO, Acura and Infiniti do not offer the same level of all-around perfomance as BMW, but both cars are likely to be a lot more reliable.
  • kahunahkahunah Member Posts: 448
    I heard this bit of news this morning on the radio but I couldn't believe it...

    "Rental" Regal Wins Notice in CR

    The Buick Regal is the most reliable family sedan, knocking off perennial leaders Toyota Camry and Nissan Maxima in Consumer Reports' latest ratings. The Regal is among a flock of newly recommended cars and trucks sold by Detroit in the consumer guide. - Jim Burt, The Car Connection

    Here's a question: Is the world coming to an end?
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    If the 3 series is generally recognized as the "standard" in its segment, then Acura and Infiniti vehicles are generally recognized has having better reliability than BMW's. You can't go around saying the former, and then lending no credibility to the latter.

    Whether either statement is fact or fiction is up for debate and endless "proof" of data, surveys, and car reviews by so-called professionals.
  • montrealloumontreallou Member Posts: 25
    I have narrowed my search after months of reading, down to the G35 and TL 2004.
    I live in Canada, so FWD is my preference, I also have come to believe that Acura quality is better than Infiniti. There are many other reasons, but I prefer the Acura.
    I am currently driving a Volvo S80. My wife wants a car as luxurious to drive as this is. I think Acura has that, in its interior. She says that she thinks G35 is more luxurious and upscale.
    Who can help me here? Who is right? (I wish the TL EXTERIOR looked more like the G35 btw)

    Thanks. This site is immensely helpful.
  • klayfishklayfish Member Posts: 48
    That is really a subjective opinion. They are both upscale cars, competing in the same market segment. As has been beaten to death here, the general overall thought seems to be the Infiniti places sport over luxury and the Acura places luxury over sport. Most people feel the Acura interior is superior. We looked repeatedly at both cars for my wife, and she chose the G35 (which we have yet to buy). She actually liked the G35 interior better, and said she felt claustrophobic in the TL. I personally liked the TL slightly better for a daily driver, but just barely. Matter of opinion...

    I think one factor not considered in the much talked about CR ratings is the customers who buy the cars. I do agree that the BMW and MB, along with the "Big Three" are not up to the quality standards of Honda, Toyota and Nissan. But sometimes I wonder if part of it is that people who buy the BMW and Mercedes are very demanding and report EVERYTHING. While cars like the Buick Regal may get a decent rating, because their customers tend to be much older and not car enthusiasts. If you look at CR, most Buicks got decent ratings, while their Chevy counterparts got worse ratings. Maybe the owners just live with some of the rattles, etc..and consider them normal. Same with the Town Car getting a somewhat respectable rating.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    You can't go around saying the former, and then lending no credibility to the latter.

    The problem I have with these so-called surveys is they don't help when it's your Hondas' tranny that just gave way in the middle of the freeway with no help in site. I agree on a 50,000 foot level these surveys are useful. But when you are the 5 in a 100 that just got hit, do you console yourself by saying, "Yes, I just bought the most reliable car on the planet"?

    When your Acura has to be brought back to the dealer for an endless string of visits to fix multiple items, big and small, do you console your self by saying,"I have a car that is more reliable than a BMW?"
  • mgh_1mgh_1 Member Posts: 22
    It doesn't help console anyone with the Acura / Honda transmission issue, nor with the G35 brake issue, or the M3 engine issue. That's not the point. The point is that it is a matter of probabilities.

    In the case of reliability, as previously stated, BMW, MB, and the Big Three have a higher probability of problems. Anything can happen to anything at any time to any man made machine. We all know that. That doesn't take away from the fact that if the probability of problems with widget "A" is 5 out of 100, and the probability with widget "B" is 10 or 15 out of 100, on average, widget "A" is more reliable than widget "B". If you choose to look at what the specific problems may be, then that information is also available.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Member Posts: 493
    If you have an endless string of visits to fix multiple items, big and small you get rid of the car and play the probablities again. That means going for acura or infiniti AGAIN. Never heard of endless strings of problems on too many acuras. Tranny problems are one thing but that is not an issue anymore. You wil never sell that 3 series reliablity stuff to honda acura people KD. Face it - if your life depended on it what would you choose - the more clearly reliable Acura or the usually reliable BMW to get from 0 to 60,000 miles. If you are so concerned about getting "hit" and safety from breakdowns - get a avalon dude. The 3 series FAILS the crash test with a NHTSB worst rating.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    chrisboth - If I work for BMW dude, you work for Infiniti.

    If my life depended on it, I would opt for my current BMW. Service is spectacular at my local dealer, (the one time I needed it), and the car is flawless.

    Check the crash results and www.crashtest.com and then tell us the 3 series fails the crash test. The information about the 3 series crash results is inaccurate to say the least.

    At the very least the 3 series it has predictable handling and won't go out from under you in an emergency situation, like the G.

    Actually if you browse crashtest.com it is very instructional to see a lot of cars in the same competitors' class are good or acceptable.

    As a matter of fact, BMW 3 series is rated best pick at highwaystats.org.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    "Amazingly the 5 series was rated by Consumer Reports as "the best sedan made for a combination of sportiness and luxury" I believe was the quote. "

    - Actually, the 530i was rated the best sedan CR ever tested (even if reliability is below some of the Japanese brands).

    KD - Personally, I think you are focusing on one issue that affected at most 1% of all 6-Cylinder cars they sold. This was rectified in early fall of 2002. There are many stories about many cars having disasterous problems. One was the aformentioned 530i, which had a problem with its engine fan (that I believe would short out). This resulted in a chance of the 530i catching on fire, even when parked! (as I witnessed in late 2001).

    - Either way, anything can happen with any cars. The nice thing about these ratings is it tells you the probability of something bad happening with a particular car(and CR focusses on the big stuff, not things like rattles).
  • chrisbothchrisboth Member Posts: 493
    ..the recommendations of the NHTSB safety board then we can blow off the Consumer Reports(suzuki samurai - we tried to get it to roll over so we could have a story and sell magazines and we don't like spirited driving) story about a problem that most people enjoy - oversteer. Hey I would love to work for Infiniti if they wanna contact me about a job.

    I love defending G dominance to people who think they can pick out the one detail in 2 years of reporting and bring it up as a serious defect worth discountinuing the car for every chance they get in order to satisfy the cravings of having thier own purchase of the seemingly less enthusiastically desired 3 series seem more satisfying. I'd prefer that the boards people read about these cars in be helpful and your information re: G is usually subjectively tainted and misrepresentitive of actual ownership. Since you don't own a G the critical judgements you render might best be taken with some serious grains-o-salt as actual ownership is the only way you could have a credible opinion on soemthing involvoing driveablity or on the very very edges of handling.

    By the way it was impressive how you had the board convinced last week that the car would catch fire and was too dnagerous to carry passengers in based on the aforementioned CR issue. That was pretty intereting reading for new car buyers I'm sure. Notice all the new happy G owners that popped up a few hours later! ;-)
  • bimmer97bimmer97 Member Posts: 12
    04tl, s60r. I know its cheaper but any other reasons. I'm worried that cheaper now means not a good depreciation car later. i'm buying very soon.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "..the recommendations of the NHTSB safety board"

    The only thing that is being disputed is the voracity of the information in post 307, which is simply put is not in line with the facts.

    Please post a link to the NHTSB website so we all can see how this car and other luxury manufacturers, especially Infiniti have, issues with their cars.

    Try this: http://www.nhtsa.com/NCAP/Cars/2002MidS.html

    And try this: http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_midl- ux.htm#00006
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    "Consumer Reports(suzuki samurai - we tried to get it to roll over so we could have a story and sell magazines and we don't like spirited driving) story about a problem that most people enjoy - oversteer. "

    - The oversteer issue with the G35 was also mentioned in Car and Driver in last year's comparison of entry-level sports sedans in the "Looking to overthrow BMW's dominance" or something like that with regards to BMW.
       Hey, Oversteer is great when controlled, but when it comes on unexpected and sudden, like the G35 sedan did with both CR and C&D (with stability control off), that is a problem.

    - BTW, the Samuri and later on the Trooper, did have roll-over problems whether you want to admit them or not.

    :Side note, I DO NOT work for CR. Just have relied on them for quite some time about the dependability of vehicles.
  • bimmer97bimmer97 Member Posts: 12
    are you not asking for trouble. can you not have enthuisatic driving with the safety features on.
    were just driving in town.
    we all have to know what are limitations are. imo
  • klayfishklayfish Member Posts: 48
    bimmer97,
    This is not at all meant to be a sarcastic response, but you'd buy the car because YOU like it. We can sit here all day long and argue the TL vs. the G35 vs a Yugo if we want, but it'll come down to what you like. Some people would say, "yeah, I know the 330i may require more upkeep (whether or not that is true) but I want it anyway because I like the car". I have the same thoughts as you. As previously said, I every so slightly favor the TL, though I loved driving both cars. But if the G35 makes her happy, as long as it is decently reliable and safe, then I'll go with it. I am concerned about depreciation too, but in general, Infiniti is fairly decent.

    A thought on Consumer Reports. I trust the ratings given by the consumer, but when it comes to their road tests...ugh... Of course the Samuri and Trooper may have a tendency to roll over if you jerk the wheel really hard at 40+mph. What did they expect from it?? Not that I'm saying I condone a vehicle that rolls over. But the Samuri and Trooper are sold elsewhere in the world. I'd bet that if I jerk the steering wheel of a school bus as hard as I can at 45mph, it may roll over too. It seemed that only in America do the "problems" arise. Ever seen some of the vans that are sold in Europe? Those things are much taller and narrower than what is sold here. They're probably much more likely to roll over.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Member Posts: 493
    but the fact that they rigged the test means 0 credibility to me forever and always. C&D is a BMW lover and subjectivly rules out any competitor to their lineup...Shapiro even mentioned this as a response to C&D supposed bias towards acura. IF you can't handle some oversteer (the car weighs 3400 pounds with 260HP RWD) then keep the VDC on. I drive sideways at 60 through 4 lane mountain switchbacks VDC off and never have any problems except that I have to wait for my friends. The car is the most balanced and easy to steer with Rear Drive than any other car in class. I've already named plenty of ed's for support on that.

    It's just a point to be taken that the comments are from a 3 owner and not a single G owner for whom the issue is supposed to affect.

    "Infiniti has issues with thier cars" - this is news to the owners.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    C&D likes to test their vehicles to the extreme to get the best skid-pad numbers and performance numbers. In order to do this you need to turn of the VDC.

    Also, for spirited driving in the twisties, it is sometimes good to turn these "electronic nannies" off to get the most out of the vehicle and the most fun out of the vehicle.

    This can be especially the case with vehicles with agressive VSC, VDCs, etc, like BMW (the hand-of-God factor).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    klayfish - We pick and choose the information we need to make a decision. At a high level I trust CRs information on the road tests, more so than other advertising accepting magazines.

    But I read it, I read the reliability ratings and then I put it away. On these boards we are involved in minutia and the minutia gets amplified above and beyond the big picture.

    Picking an Accord over a Camry does not require CR as a research tool, although having the specifications in one place is nice. Picking a 330i over a TL again does not require CR, but having the specs in one place is nice. After all who is going to spend $25,000 based on one page in a magazine?
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    1. "but the fact that they rigged the test means 0 credibility to me forever and always. "

    - First time I have heard (besides from a Suzuki Lawyer) that the CR test was rigged on the Samuri.
       Please provide evidence or a legitamite link when making such a bold accusation!

    ""Infiniti has issues with thier cars" - this is news to the owners. "

    - Who says this? I completely agree with you that this is an untrue statement. The issues they have are only with a very small percentage, and with those, they are fixing them.

      By this same token, you could say just about every car manufacturer has issues with their cars. They all have had issues or service bulletins of some sort with every car!

    Finally, Chrisboth, the 3-Series definitely drives differently than the G35. Testdriving both (did not get either), there was definitely a different feel from both of them. Driving both with sports suspensions, the G35 had the better ride, but the 3-Series felt sportier.
  • montrealloumontreallou Member Posts: 25
    Why are we discussing BMW in the TL vs G35 section.
    Isn't there another subject for that somewhere else?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Folks, we are getting too far from the subject. Please remember we are discussing the TL vs the G35.

    Thanks.

    Edit - montreallou beat me to it. :)
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