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I also fall more in love with the styling on my TSX ever day, but that is another issue!
My main complaint with the exterior on the TL is that I don't like the color selection. I prefer light colored cars. Easier to maintain and not as hot in the sun. But, Acura really offers only two light colors - white and silver. I wish there were some interesting light greens (like the teal colore on the early 90's Accords). If they had the Meteor Silver that I have on my TSX (which is more like a silver blue) that would be ideal. B
My guess if you really like your M3, go with a 330i ZHP (Performance Package). Test drive the others, but that car is probably more in line with your particular liking. It is about as fast as your M3.
bimmer97 - that was a very astute comment, I think you hit the nail on the head.
It's the best place in the south other than that...especially after seeing the aforementioned this weekend in a club.
Ponder this one...we again went to the Acura dealer over the weekend (trying to get the best price for her '01 TL) and we looked at the '04 TL again. I asked her about the interior, and she said she preferred the G35 interior. Puzzled, I asked her why. She said she felt like she was almost swallowed up by the TL interior and it pushed all of it's techno bits at you. i.e. the center console was too far forward and made her feel confined. She liked the G35 because it was not as close to you or "in your face". I had never thought of it like that, as I very much prefered the interior of the TL to the G35. But after looking at both cars again back to back, I see what she is saying. I still like the TL interior much better, but it is more prominent. Anyone else notice this?
would i buy the tl just for the inside probably not..... but the horror stories regarding the g35 brakes have me a little concerned.
Some people with claustrophobic tendencies can't handle it but I happen to like the cozy feel of the TL's interior. When I'm cruising at highway speeds, I don't want to be hunting and reaching for buttons and switches -- something you would be doing more of in a G35, I assure you.
It's really hard to gauge this anyway, especially since some problems are costlier/ more dangerous than other problems, even though they are considered "one" problem. For example, the transmission woes of some previous Accords and TL's are pretty significant problems.
I read somewhere (I think CR) that the late Infiniti G20 was the most "reliable" car ever, in terms of fewest number of problems. Goes to show that reliability alone doesn't sell cars.
Probably because they only sold a few of them
- The Nissan Maxima was the top rated family sedan from '98-2000. Assuming Infinity will have similiar reliability numbers, I would have a great deal of faith in the reliability of an Infinity.
Again, generally when myself, my friends, or my relatives buy a car that is rated better-than-average reliability wise, we have had good luck with the car. When we have bought a car that was average or below average, we have had problems.
According to CR, EVERY Acura model ever made has average to above average reliability and Acura has one of the lowest overall problem rates in the industry.
Likewise, EVERY Infiniti model ever made has average to above average reliability and Infiniti has an extremely low rate of problems. But, these are averages across all vehicles. YMMV. Any car can have problems and any car can turn out to be flawless.
In contrast, for BMW, every model is below average to far below average beside the 5 series. And, several BMW models are down at the bottom of all vehicles surveyed by CR.
So, yeah, we're talking probabilities. But, the probabilities favor Acura and Infiniti in a convincing manner.
Based on the available data,we are on strong ground predicting that the G35 and TL will hold up well over time, and that some competitors (like BMW and Audi) will not.
Amazingly the 5 series was rated by Consumer Reports as "the best sedan made for a combination of sportiness and luxury" I believe was the quote. That was in an issue early in the year. High praise from a company that usually doesn't have high praise for expensive automobiles.
Reliablity and performance are not the same issue. IMO, Acura and Infiniti do not offer the same level of all-around perfomance as BMW, but both cars are likely to be a lot more reliable.
"Rental" Regal Wins Notice in CR
The Buick Regal is the most reliable family sedan, knocking off perennial leaders Toyota Camry and Nissan Maxima in Consumer Reports' latest ratings. The Regal is among a flock of newly recommended cars and trucks sold by Detroit in the consumer guide. - Jim Burt, The Car Connection
Here's a question: Is the world coming to an end?
Whether either statement is fact or fiction is up for debate and endless "proof" of data, surveys, and car reviews by so-called professionals.
I live in Canada, so FWD is my preference, I also have come to believe that Acura quality is better than Infiniti. There are many other reasons, but I prefer the Acura.
I am currently driving a Volvo S80. My wife wants a car as luxurious to drive as this is. I think Acura has that, in its interior. She says that she thinks G35 is more luxurious and upscale.
Who can help me here? Who is right? (I wish the TL EXTERIOR looked more like the G35 btw)
Thanks. This site is immensely helpful.
I think one factor not considered in the much talked about CR ratings is the customers who buy the cars. I do agree that the BMW and MB, along with the "Big Three" are not up to the quality standards of Honda, Toyota and Nissan. But sometimes I wonder if part of it is that people who buy the BMW and Mercedes are very demanding and report EVERYTHING. While cars like the Buick Regal may get a decent rating, because their customers tend to be much older and not car enthusiasts. If you look at CR, most Buicks got decent ratings, while their Chevy counterparts got worse ratings. Maybe the owners just live with some of the rattles, etc..and consider them normal. Same with the Town Car getting a somewhat respectable rating.
The problem I have with these so-called surveys is they don't help when it's your Hondas' tranny that just gave way in the middle of the freeway with no help in site. I agree on a 50,000 foot level these surveys are useful. But when you are the 5 in a 100 that just got hit, do you console yourself by saying, "Yes, I just bought the most reliable car on the planet"?
When your Acura has to be brought back to the dealer for an endless string of visits to fix multiple items, big and small, do you console your self by saying,"I have a car that is more reliable than a BMW?"
In the case of reliability, as previously stated, BMW, MB, and the Big Three have a higher probability of problems. Anything can happen to anything at any time to any man made machine. We all know that. That doesn't take away from the fact that if the probability of problems with widget "A" is 5 out of 100, and the probability with widget "B" is 10 or 15 out of 100, on average, widget "A" is more reliable than widget "B". If you choose to look at what the specific problems may be, then that information is also available.
If my life depended on it, I would opt for my current BMW. Service is spectacular at my local dealer, (the one time I needed it), and the car is flawless.
Check the crash results and www.crashtest.com and then tell us the 3 series fails the crash test. The information about the 3 series crash results is inaccurate to say the least.
At the very least the 3 series it has predictable handling and won't go out from under you in an emergency situation, like the G.
Actually if you browse crashtest.com it is very instructional to see a lot of cars in the same competitors' class are good or acceptable.
As a matter of fact, BMW 3 series is rated best pick at highwaystats.org.
- Actually, the 530i was rated the best sedan CR ever tested (even if reliability is below some of the Japanese brands).
KD - Personally, I think you are focusing on one issue that affected at most 1% of all 6-Cylinder cars they sold. This was rectified in early fall of 2002. There are many stories about many cars having disasterous problems. One was the aformentioned 530i, which had a problem with its engine fan (that I believe would short out). This resulted in a chance of the 530i catching on fire, even when parked! (as I witnessed in late 2001).
- Either way, anything can happen with any cars. The nice thing about these ratings is it tells you the probability of something bad happening with a particular car(and CR focusses on the big stuff, not things like rattles).
I love defending G dominance to people who think they can pick out the one detail in 2 years of reporting and bring it up as a serious defect worth discountinuing the car for every chance they get in order to satisfy the cravings of having thier own purchase of the seemingly less enthusiastically desired 3 series seem more satisfying. I'd prefer that the boards people read about these cars in be helpful and your information re: G is usually subjectively tainted and misrepresentitive of actual ownership. Since you don't own a G the critical judgements you render might best be taken with some serious grains-o-salt as actual ownership is the only way you could have a credible opinion on soemthing involvoing driveablity or on the very very edges of handling.
By the way it was impressive how you had the board convinced last week that the car would catch fire and was too dnagerous to carry passengers in based on the aforementioned CR issue. That was pretty intereting reading for new car buyers I'm sure. Notice all the new happy G owners that popped up a few hours later! ;-)
The only thing that is being disputed is the voracity of the information in post 307, which is simply put is not in line with the facts.
Please post a link to the NHTSB website so we all can see how this car and other luxury manufacturers, especially Infiniti have, issues with their cars.
Try this: http://www.nhtsa.com/NCAP/Cars/2002MidS.html
And try this: http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_midl- ux.htm#00006
- The oversteer issue with the G35 was also mentioned in Car and Driver in last year's comparison of entry-level sports sedans in the "Looking to overthrow BMW's dominance" or something like that with regards to BMW.
Hey, Oversteer is great when controlled, but when it comes on unexpected and sudden, like the G35 sedan did with both CR and C&D (with stability control off), that is a problem.
- BTW, the Samuri and later on the Trooper, did have roll-over problems whether you want to admit them or not.
:Side note, I DO NOT work for CR. Just have relied on them for quite some time about the dependability of vehicles.
were just driving in town.
we all have to know what are limitations are. imo
This is not at all meant to be a sarcastic response, but you'd buy the car because YOU like it. We can sit here all day long and argue the TL vs. the G35 vs a Yugo if we want, but it'll come down to what you like. Some people would say, "yeah, I know the 330i may require more upkeep (whether or not that is true) but I want it anyway because I like the car". I have the same thoughts as you. As previously said, I every so slightly favor the TL, though I loved driving both cars. But if the G35 makes her happy, as long as it is decently reliable and safe, then I'll go with it. I am concerned about depreciation too, but in general, Infiniti is fairly decent.
A thought on Consumer Reports. I trust the ratings given by the consumer, but when it comes to their road tests...ugh... Of course the Samuri and Trooper may have a tendency to roll over if you jerk the wheel really hard at 40+mph. What did they expect from it?? Not that I'm saying I condone a vehicle that rolls over. But the Samuri and Trooper are sold elsewhere in the world. I'd bet that if I jerk the steering wheel of a school bus as hard as I can at 45mph, it may roll over too. It seemed that only in America do the "problems" arise. Ever seen some of the vans that are sold in Europe? Those things are much taller and narrower than what is sold here. They're probably much more likely to roll over.
It's just a point to be taken that the comments are from a 3 owner and not a single G owner for whom the issue is supposed to affect.
"Infiniti has issues with thier cars" - this is news to the owners.
Also, for spirited driving in the twisties, it is sometimes good to turn these "electronic nannies" off to get the most out of the vehicle and the most fun out of the vehicle.
This can be especially the case with vehicles with agressive VSC, VDCs, etc, like BMW (the hand-of-God factor).
But I read it, I read the reliability ratings and then I put it away. On these boards we are involved in minutia and the minutia gets amplified above and beyond the big picture.
Picking an Accord over a Camry does not require CR as a research tool, although having the specifications in one place is nice. Picking a 330i over a TL again does not require CR, but having the specs in one place is nice. After all who is going to spend $25,000 based on one page in a magazine?
- First time I have heard (besides from a Suzuki Lawyer) that the CR test was rigged on the Samuri.
Please provide evidence or a legitamite link when making such a bold accusation!
""Infiniti has issues with thier cars" - this is news to the owners. "
- Who says this? I completely agree with you that this is an untrue statement. The issues they have are only with a very small percentage, and with those, they are fixing them.
By this same token, you could say just about every car manufacturer has issues with their cars. They all have had issues or service bulletins of some sort with every car!
Finally, Chrisboth, the 3-Series definitely drives differently than the G35. Testdriving both (did not get either), there was definitely a different feel from both of them. Driving both with sports suspensions, the G35 had the better ride, but the 3-Series felt sportier.
Isn't there another subject for that somewhere else?
Thanks.
Edit - montreallou beat me to it.