I really want to learn how to drive stick... yet I dont' know of any one who owns one in which I could learn... any idea as to where I could go to learn.. perhaps rent a car for a week and learn that way.. do dealors do that ... I really want to learn befor I go out and purchase my new car, I would like to be able to make a schoice as to which one I prefer... any idears
Thanks to everyone who helped me decide. I drove both cars , 10 minutes apart. Luckily the two dealers were next door to each other. I found both cars responded to my every wish. They took off when I wanted to and stopped as you would expect them to. My ultimate choice was based on: - G35 brake problem concerns me - TL is FWD, for snowy weather - TL seemed better finished inside, and G35 nicer outside. But I decided I spend most of MY time on the inside, so who cares about the people I pass. - Navi was neat on the TL, and very affordable.
OK, so what color? I have it down to black or silver, with the blue a third runner up. I have decided on black interior. I was hoping the Caramel would do, but its a yucky yellow butterscotch color. I like the parchment better, but not available on that car. Also like Anthracite a lot, but only on the Manual. Bummer!!!
Sooo... what color? Does the black make the car look smaller? Why do they have silver on all the brochures? Does black hide all the lines? Is silver and black interior a nicer contrast? Does black swirls on paint bother anyone?
I think the black looks hot when it is clean. The question is how often do you like to wash your car and how do you like to wash it. If you're a bit lazy about keeping your car clean then the silver will hide dirt much better. Also, you do run the risk of having swirl marks in the clear coat of the black car if you take it to car washes.
I got my G35S 6MT in March and am still very happy with it and find it a lot of fun to drive.
A business associate got his 2003 TL-S (automatic with 260HP) about the same time. He just got rid of it because he found it "boring" to drive(his words).
CLS 6MT is a lot of fun to drive, you can't compare it to AT. I own TLS and have to agree it's feels boring from time to time, not because its ACURA TL but because it's AT.
I have been pleased with the quality of advice I have received here, so don't see why I should stop listening now. I will order my Silver/ebony on Monday, with Navi. BIG time excited now. Do any of the Canadian owners of TL's have experience with discounting? Are dealers at all flexible? So far they have taken 500 cdn off, is it worth pushing more?
Taking the elements of snow/bad weather out of the equation, and twisty country roads, is RWD still that big an advantage over FWD?
I live in Southern California - so at least 95% of my driving will be on dry, warm freeways. I'm torn between the G35 or TL. Either would have to be AT, unfortunately, because of the traffic. Considering mainly freeway driving, am I even going to notice the FWD? Or should I think harder about the G35, despite the lackluster interior?
Usually FWD is considered advantageous over RWD in bad weather.
If you're gonna do mainly freeway cruising, and not much twisties, RWD won't do you that much good. However, for me, RWD is more fun than FWD even on just local roads. But on freeway straightaways, I doubt you'll really feel the difference.
Until you flog the car, then you feel the difference between RWD and FWD. jrock is correct, drive like a granny at speeds not over 50 miles an hour in a good weather climate, the drivetrain is irrelevant. Flog the car and the drivetrain makes a difference.
We've had this argument here before. And, even if you don't believe that one has an intrisic advantage over the other (and I don't) it is clear they are different. FWD has issues with understeer and torque steer (understeer will be more of an issue in the TL than torque steer) and RWD can have oversteer problems (a serious issue on the G35) but also offer better balance. All things being equal, the RWD car is a bit more fun to drive. But, in the case of the TL and G35 you have two cars that both handle and perform great, and both have great styling and should be extremely reliable. So, either will be a good buy.
I agree. If you're only going to drive the car at a slow and steady highway speed, and sit in traffic, the difference you'd notice between FWD and RWD is so minimal, if any, that it isn't worth considering. If you plan to run some twisty backroads or play with the car a little, then you'll start to feel a definite difference between the two. Acura did a phenomenal job in their effort to minimize the shortcomings of FWD, but you can still feel some tug at the wheel.
If I were going to spend 1-2 hours driving every day, the decision would be simple...go with the nicer interior with the unbelievable sound system...the TL. Might not get you front of the parking lot with the valet, but in all honesty, neither will the G.
Alot has been said about the interior of the G35 but I think it is all minor. The G was not designed to be a luxurious looking car. It is a sports car. It gives you a feel as if you were in a cockpit, which is their intentions. The TL is the one I believe that lacks styling and interior. The G beats the TL at all ends of the spectrum. Performance, handling, braking, comfortability, ergonamics, aerodynamics, excitement, service, quality. But everyone seems to be drawn to the interiors of these cars. To me, it's a no-brainer which one is the dominant car. Like I said, it's my opinion
There's a reason why "everyone seems to be drawn to the interiors of these cars". The TL is an ergonomic masterpiece compared to the G35. Everything on the TL, especially the console, flows together beautifully. The instrumentation in the G appears more modular and disconnected.
In addition to this, many (including myself) chose the TL over the G35 because it's a smoother, quieter and more refined car than the G on many levels, including performance. If you test drive the TL 6MT and the G35 6MT back-to-back (which I'm guessing you didn't), you'll see what I mean.
Hits this right on the head. As soon as you realize that this is a 350z with four doors - you stop looking to be wooed with ergonomic bliss. The G interior is not art - it's functional in design and not trying to be a luxo car. ITS A 350Z with some missing HP and 4 doors.
If you want refined flowing bla bla bla the G is not for you...and o by the way it has tons of usable luxury - i'm impressed with 5.1 digi music - but that format will never appeal to more than 1% of the music market - and heated seats, dual climate, reclining rear seats, the list goes on. Bluetooth may be cool but I didn't buy a 35k tech gadget. I wanted like many a RWD sprts car that is superior in handling and driveablity and goes fast. When kahunah speaks of refinement I think he's looking for interior fung schway (sp)cuz he's not going to find more refinement in a TL than a G regarding exterior looks (IMO) or performance driving as the balanced FM platform with RWD (IMO and most enthusiast).
I don't know if I would call the G35 sedan a "sports car". (It's got a silly foot e-brake, for cryin' out loud). And even if it is a sports car, where does it say that a sports car can't have a rich-looking interior and good ergonomics. Does it cost more to put seat adjustment switches in their proper place?!!
According to whom...the past norm. It's actually much easier to change seating positions and much safer...took awhile to get used to it but it's no worse IMO. If that's the difference for you then you aren't that interested in the G in the first place. The 6 speed get the hand brake - last time I checked noone in AT uses a brake, wherever it's location. And it works just as well. If you do sliding rear end manuevers - which i am a fan of - get a 6 speed.
Lets see - the foot brake and the convenient seat switches or Front wheel drive....hmmmmm.
I test drove both cars, and really wanted to like the G b/c the exterior is more appealing to me. What did me in was the following:
-- The big plastic wrap around the climate control readouts on top of the dash couldn't escape my eyes when I was driving - it simply didn't look luxurious enough;
-- The dead pedal on the floor; I'm only a size 10 1/2 and I simply couldn't find a comfortable spot for my left foot. Don't know if it was the brake pedal or not...the TL simply felt more comfortable;
-- As comfortable as the seats in the G are, the TL's are even more so.
-- The TLs exterior is good looking enough;
-- The TLs interior is far superior (except for the Gs reclining rear seats which are uber cool.
For almost any review that I've read. Oh, I'm sure you can get used to it. Why don't we put it on the ceiling next time? I'm sure you can get used to that too.
If you really want a sports car, GET A REAL SPORTS CAR! No use jacking around with this "4-door sports car" nonsense. Nissan actually has a couple of them for anyone who wants one (G35 coupe and Z).
Calling the G a sports car does a disservice to Porsche. It's an entry level near luxo sports sedan.
I didn't not find tons of useable luxury in that car. It does something well and should be judged on those merits. But it falls behind in other aspects.
The TL's interior design is the result of effective ergonomic engineering -- something Acura has done much better than Infiniti, in my opinion. This design science emphasizes efficiency of human movement to enhance comfort and safety. In a vehicle equipped with complex systems such as navigation, this design approach becomes especially more important.
When I'm cruising at highway speeds, I don't want to be hunting and reaching for buttons and switches -- something you would be doing more of in a G35, I assure you.
I have a g35 and i dont have any issues hunting and reaching - and i dount that I'll be seeking phys therapy for all that awful add'l movement.
If you care that much about where the seat controls are - this car is not for you. The seat controls are there as a race driver designed them to be ergonimical and limit uneccessary movements - you know looking down into the door sills for it. It makes so much sense in context of your very argument about "restricting human move...bla bla"
Does it have all the human movement enhancement salable hype - NO. Is it nice - YES. The titianium willow combo is one of the best looking entry lux looking interiors out there. Is may not be as cream as a TL - and it sure is not an A4 the cream of the class, but it has all the amenities this class demands and the controls are nothing but a minor challenge for 2 days...then you say...ahhh- the radio controls are on the right side becasue I'm always in tiptronic mode and that exactly what works...you have to own one to see the sensibility built into it. It's not perfect but I want a "sports" sedan not a perfect interoir. Look Infiniti spent the money on the motor and the handling - and they got it and they bettered the class leader and they still are finding few if any in the class who can beat the numbers put up on the test track.
You can live with FWD compromise so I can live with some very fickle interior issues - that only the editors have - for one day that they have the car. I wont deny you anything regarding TL interior superiority. A real sports car I may never have at my size in the meanwhile - my 4 door sport sedan is the joy in balanced and capable apex management. When the weight shifts to the drive wheels at the last second before you start to exit the turn apex...you start to forget about bluetooth and not having to move your hands that extra inch to reach a control.
It's not a sports car by sports car definition - i agree - it has four doors yes and to whomever suggested I get a Z or G I am 6'5" and would love to get one....no thanks I dont want to climb down into a hunchback positon for 7 hour road trips. You clearly are not in sales as those cars dont meet my needs. The needs I have that are still met however are the needs to blow by so called sports cars like the boxster and the 330ci - on the twisties or from 20-100 whatever. And I don't feel to spartan on the inside. That 5.1 would be nice but my 2000 disk collection has no 5.1's.
I may have an awful problem since my seat controls are on the seat (god forbid the change from what everyone else has) but at least I got VQ baby. Define Sports car how you want - there are no compromises in G35 performace in this class....for the sedan or coupe.
Oh and if you worry about safety - dont get the NAV - I know plenty of cases at my buds law firm where #1 cell phones and #2 Idrive and #3 NAVIGATION SYSTEMS are big time accident catalysts...at least to the jurys who bankrupt the guilty and innocent alike. Just like with cellular phones - even when you are done dialing u still pay attention to something other than driving...ala taking into your cell phone = talking into your nav system - hey its nice but I wouldn't have a $2000 upgrade that gives me 300 bucks in hardware and 200 bucks in software...
I didn't know race cars have power seat controls?.....I know plenty of tall people who drive sports cars comfortably....yea, getting in/out is more difficult but they wouldn't be hunched over for 7-hour trips....VQ is nice engine, but it's no longer head and shoulder above others....it's been commented that VQ is starting to get kinda rough at 3.5l displacement....Honda's vtec V6 is probably more refined.
Having driven a lot of Nissans/Infinitis and Hondas/Acuras, I have developed a strong preference for the VTEC engine.
The VQ has great low end torque, better than the VTEC, but it strains on the upper ranges of its torque curve whereas the VTEC engines have no problems there, much more refined.
Also, every Nissan/Infiniti car I have ever driven has had horrible gas mileage, much lower than the estimated gas mileage. On the other hand, every single Acura in my family gets better than expected gas mileage.
- "Tranction control and weight distribution is pure baloney-try taking that rear axel when there is about 6 inches of that white stuff on the road"
- Snow tires would help, no? Also ground clearance is a major concern regardless of the vehicle. A friend of mine used to leave his Jeep Cherokee in RWD to have a little fun in the snow. He did not have problems at all.
I wanted to like the interior of the G35, because I loved everything else about the car (and the price is right)! But, not only is it an ergonomic mess, it feels cheap. Lots of hard plastic everywhere. There are also some major annoyances (lack of a telescoping steering wheel, and that silly split-level glove box). The seat controls are the worst I've ever seen in ANY car with power seats.
Its a great car but the interior is a signficant weakness.
On the other hand, that is personal taste. I know that some (like Chrisboth) really like the interior, and I can't fault them for their opinion.
I have driven G35c many time and I love it, if I would be shopping for sports coup, G35c is a clear winner. On the other hand I like TL better as a sports sedan, with 6MT it has grate Acceleration and handling plus I like the interior much better. There is no way G35 would outhandle TL 6MT on the highway or street, racetrack maybe.
Let me state that I too find the G35 line (for me the Coupe, actually considering one) to be a really fantastic car, especially from a driver's point of view, but there is no excuse for some of the cheapness inside the car. Race car designed seat controls??? Thats a clever excuse. The truth is Nissan didn't allocate the money to fully convert the car from right to left hand drive so they just left certain controls in place for all markets. That is why the stereo is also backwards.
Yep, Nissan left the controls the way they are on the JDM Skyline to save some money, but I don't see it as a big deal. The volume control is on the steering wheel, so it's actually better that the one on the dash is closer to the passenger. Also, in cars I've had, I find that I fiddle with the fan speed more than the auto temp control.
I don't mind the seat controls (although I could see that it'd be an issue if you got big thighs). They're actually easier to use than the control that MB puts on the doors in the shape of a seat.
To me, the ergonomics in the G are fine. It's the interior of the dash materials that could use some help. But I actually like the feel of the G's leather seat over that of the TL.
"They're actually easier to use than the control that MB puts on the doors in the shape of a seat. "
No way on that one. That control is shaped like the seat itself and has been the envy and benchmark of the industry. Unlike the Infiniti contols there is no guess as to what button controls what, you simply just move the part of the seat you want to adjust. Only if all of Mercedes' controls were that simplistic. Others use it with permission from Mercedes-Benz. Most other brands use something very similar now, but they aren't allowed to put it on the door.
Wasn't Infiniti the one that got sued by Benz to change their seat controls way back when because they were too close to the Benz controls?
To me, even though I knew what controlled what, the MB controls were just a little weird to use. Maybe I like my hand to move with me as my body moves, instead of staying in one spot.
In any case, once you get used to it, I think the G seat controls are just as ergonomic as the TL's. The main downside to it is for people with big thighs.
MB controls work well but I never liked that seat shaped control mucking up the entire top half of the door. It makes it look very busy...I'm sure on the S class the door is big and bad enough to fit it in, but on a C320 it looks less than Audi like.
"There is no way G35 would outhandle TL 6MT on the highway or street, racetrack maybe"
PLEASE show me one editorial or published number ~ objective anything that supports this. RWD alone makes the infiniti better on the street - streets have curves and apexes just like the track and many cane enjoy the benefits of the platform - the whole "you'd never know the difference unless you take it to the edge" thing is baloney.
Not so. Streets have traffic, pedestrians, lights and other obstacles. Rarely can you drive at full-out or close to it to take advantage of the inherent characteristics of RWD. That's why for most people, a well-engineered FWD is preferred.
Do not expect what I do and many other in this class do. My car gets me out of bed at 4am for 120mph coffee runs to lehigh valley from philly. There are no pedestrians at 4 am - not even traffic. I can get to those limits and I am not the only one. If you dont need RWD then yo are correct the TL is fine. If you've never tried it what you don't know can't hurt you.
My bet is acura will follow the trend as well as everyone else out there. Even Chrysler is gravitating to RWD format as popularity falls for the FWD platform. Hey - When it comes to FWD no body does it better than Honda so I expect them to stay the course a little longer than the rest...they also dont cater to trends to well over at honda either - and to thier benefit.
Been driving sports cars and sporty cars for 35 years now. I have to argue that for some people (including me), the different characteristics of a RWD vs. FWD are readily apparent, even on a 3-mile daily commute. Are the differences huge? No. Do they matter to most people? No. But they are there.
I think where people get confused is in thinking of the usual RWD advantage in ultimate performance numbers, so they figure there's no difference if "you're not pushing the car to the limit."
But for me, the difference is one of dynamics and feel. I like the feeling when a RWD squats slightly under straightline acceleration. I like the slight "tail-out" sensation when I accelerate in a turn, and the way the car takes a set when I feather the throttle. These things matter to someone who wants to feel more connected to their car. In my opinion, that's why most top-flight sports sedans are RWD... not because they have 5% more capability at the limits.
If you don't know what I'm referring to, I suggest that you test drive a Honda Civic CRX and a Mazda Miata back to back, at about six-tenths. Both are very good handling cars, but the FWD and RWD give them each a very different character, even when not near the limits. I happen to like the dynamics of the RWD.
So I chose a G35 over the Acura. And as we all know, that's just me and my opinion.
"Are the differences huge? No. Do they matter to most people? No"
That's the point some of us here have been trying to make. I think everyone knows there are differences in driving dynamics between FWD and RWD. AND, you also have to keep in mind that aside from purely driving pleasure, FWD is much more of an all-season option whereas RWD is not.
I think for 80% of the driving population, if they encountered the "tail out sensation" they pee in their pants
"Are the differences huge? No. Do they matter to most people? No"
What realy does matter to people? We could break it down to the most basic level and find out ultimately an XG300 will satisfy 90% of the driving publics requirements. Does the GT3 provide better transporation than the XG300 on traffic clogged highways and streets? Probably not.
Sure you can make the case you in one vehicle you crawl in style. But then again one can make the case a modicum of luxury is nice. Maybe you can even make the case that know the difference between FWD/RWD and for their own reasons they choose one drivetrain or another.
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Comments
I drove both cars , 10 minutes apart. Luckily the two dealers were next door to each other.
I found both cars responded to my every wish. They took off when I wanted to and stopped as you would expect them to. My ultimate choice was based on:
- G35 brake problem concerns me
- TL is FWD, for snowy weather
- TL seemed better finished inside, and G35 nicer outside. But I decided I spend most of MY time on the inside, so who cares about the people I pass.
- Navi was neat on the TL, and very affordable.
OK, so what color? I have it down to black or silver, with the blue a third runner up. I have decided on black interior. I was hoping the Caramel would do, but its a yucky yellow butterscotch color. I like the parchment better, but not available on that car. Also like Anthracite a lot, but only on the Manual. Bummer!!!
Sooo... what color? Does the black make the car look smaller? Why do they have silver on all the brochures? Does black hide all the lines? Is silver and black interior a nicer contrast? Does black swirls on paint bother anyone?
What is everyone else buying?
Thanks again for the help everyone!
BTW, if Acura lets me pick and choose, I would go with the Anthracite w/Quartz interior. But, of course, the world is not perfect!
A business associate got his 2003 TL-S (automatic with 260HP) about the same time. He just got rid of it because he found it "boring" to drive(his words).
Do any of the Canadian owners of TL's have experience with discounting? Are dealers at all flexible? So far they have taken 500 cdn off, is it worth pushing more?
I live in Southern California - so at least 95% of my driving will be on dry, warm freeways. I'm torn between the G35 or TL. Either would have to be AT, unfortunately, because of the traffic. Considering mainly freeway driving, am I even going to notice the FWD? Or should I think harder about the G35, despite the lackluster interior?
If you're gonna do mainly freeway cruising, and not much twisties, RWD won't do you that much good. However, for me, RWD is more fun than FWD even on just local roads. But on freeway straightaways, I doubt you'll really feel the difference.
Both are great cars. Best of luck.
In addition to this, many (including myself) chose the TL over the G35 because it's a smoother, quieter and more refined car than the G on many levels, including performance. If you test drive the TL 6MT and the G35 6MT back-to-back (which I'm guessing you didn't), you'll see what I mean.
If you want refined flowing bla bla bla the G is not for you...and o by the way it has tons of usable luxury - i'm impressed with 5.1 digi music - but that format will never appeal to more than 1% of the music market - and heated seats, dual climate, reclining rear seats, the list goes on. Bluetooth may be cool but I didn't buy a 35k tech gadget. I wanted like many a RWD sprts car that is superior in handling and driveablity and goes fast. When kahunah speaks of refinement I think he's looking for interior fung schway (sp)cuz he's not going to find more refinement in a TL than a G regarding exterior looks (IMO) or performance driving as the balanced FM platform with RWD (IMO and most enthusiast).
Lets see - the foot brake and the convenient seat switches or Front wheel drive....hmmmmm.
-- The big plastic wrap around the climate control readouts on top of the dash couldn't escape my eyes when I was driving - it simply didn't look luxurious enough;
-- The dead pedal on the floor; I'm only a size 10 1/2 and I simply couldn't find a comfortable spot for my left foot. Don't know if it was the brake pedal or not...the TL simply felt more comfortable;
-- As comfortable as the seats in the G are, the TL's are even more so.
-- The TLs exterior is good looking enough;
-- The TLs interior is far superior (except for the Gs reclining rear seats which are uber cool.
If you really want a sports car, GET A REAL SPORTS CAR! No use jacking around with this "4-door sports car" nonsense. Nissan actually has a couple of them for anyone who wants one (G35 coupe and Z).
I didn't not find tons of useable luxury in that car. It does something well and should be judged on those merits. But it falls behind in other aspects.
When I'm cruising at highway speeds, I don't want to be hunting and reaching for buttons and switches -- something you would be doing more of in a G35, I assure you.
If you care that much about where the seat controls are - this car is not for you. The seat controls are there as a race driver designed them to be ergonimical and limit uneccessary movements - you know looking down into the door sills for it. It makes so much sense in context of your very argument about "restricting human move...bla bla"
Does it have all the human movement enhancement salable hype - NO. Is it nice - YES. The titianium willow combo is one of the best looking entry lux looking interiors out there. Is may not be as cream as a TL - and it sure is not an A4 the cream of the class, but it has all the amenities this class demands and the controls are nothing but a minor challenge for 2 days...then you say...ahhh- the radio controls are on the right side becasue I'm always in tiptronic mode and that exactly what works...you have to own one to see the sensibility built into it. It's not perfect but I want a "sports" sedan not a perfect interoir. Look Infiniti spent the money on the motor and the handling - and they got it and they bettered the class leader and they still are finding few if any in the class who can beat the numbers put up on the test track.
You can live with FWD compromise so I can live with some very fickle interior issues - that only the editors have - for one day that they have the car. I wont deny you anything regarding TL interior superiority. A real sports car I may never have at my size in the meanwhile - my 4 door sport sedan is the joy in balanced and capable apex management. When the weight shifts to the drive wheels at the last second before you start to exit the turn apex...you start to forget about bluetooth and not having to move your hands that extra inch to reach a control.
It's not a sports car by sports car definition - i agree - it has four doors yes and to whomever suggested I get a Z or G I am 6'5" and would love to get one....no thanks I dont want to climb down into a hunchback positon for 7 hour road trips. You clearly are not in sales as those cars dont meet my needs. The needs I have that are still met however are the needs to blow by so called sports cars like the boxster and the 330ci - on the twisties or from 20-100 whatever. And I don't feel to spartan on the inside. That 5.1 would be nice but my 2000 disk collection has no 5.1's.
I may have an awful problem since my seat controls are on the seat (god forbid the change from what everyone else has) but at least I got VQ baby. Define Sports car how you want - there are no compromises in G35 performace in this class....for the sedan or coupe.
Oh and if you worry about safety - dont get the NAV - I know plenty of cases at my buds law firm where #1 cell phones and #2 Idrive and #3 NAVIGATION SYSTEMS are big time accident catalysts...at least to the jurys who bankrupt the guilty and innocent alike. Just like with cellular phones - even when you are done dialing u still pay attention to something other than driving...ala taking into your cell phone = talking into your nav system - hey its nice but I wouldn't have a $2000 upgrade that gives me 300 bucks in hardware and 200 bucks in software...
The VQ has great low end torque, better than the VTEC, but it strains on the upper ranges of its torque curve whereas the VTEC engines have no problems there, much more refined.
Also, every Nissan/Infiniti car I have ever driven has had horrible gas mileage, much lower than the estimated gas mileage. On the other hand, every single Acura in my family gets better than expected gas mileage.
RWD-not in my part of the country.
I work on a main street and last year I saw plenty of rear axel cars pulling off to side in the snow storms that occurred.
Tranction control and weight distribution is pure baloney-try taking that rear axel when there is about 6 inches of that white stuff on the road.
Absolutely.
- Snow tires would help, no? Also ground clearance is a major concern regardless of the vehicle. A friend of mine used to leave his Jeep Cherokee in RWD to have a little fun in the snow. He did not have problems at all.
Its a great car but the interior is a signficant weakness.
On the other hand, that is personal taste. I know that some (like Chrisboth) really like the interior, and I can't fault them for their opinion.
M
I don't mind the seat controls (although I could see that it'd be an issue if you got big thighs). They're actually easier to use than the control that MB puts on the doors in the shape of a seat.
To me, the ergonomics in the G are fine. It's the interior of the dash materials that could use some help. But I actually like the feel of the G's leather seat over that of the TL.
No way on that one. That control is shaped like the seat itself and has been the envy and benchmark of the industry. Unlike the Infiniti contols there is no guess as to what button controls what, you simply just move the part of the seat you want to adjust. Only if all of Mercedes' controls were that simplistic. Others use it with permission from Mercedes-Benz. Most other brands use something very similar now, but they aren't allowed to put it on the door.
Wasn't Infiniti the one that got sued by Benz to change their seat controls way back when because they were too close to the Benz controls?
M
In any case, once you get used to it, I think the G seat controls are just as ergonomic as the TL's. The main downside to it is for people with big thighs.
"There is no way G35 would outhandle TL 6MT on the highway or street, racetrack maybe"
PLEASE show me one editorial or published number ~ objective anything that supports this. RWD alone makes the infiniti better on the street - streets have curves and apexes just like the track and many cane enjoy the benefits of the platform - the whole "you'd never know the difference unless you take it to the edge" thing is baloney.
Please start making RWD so that we the customers can go for our 4am 120mph coffee runs.:)
I think where people get confused is in thinking of the usual RWD advantage in ultimate performance numbers, so they figure there's no difference if "you're not pushing the car to the limit."
But for me, the difference is one of dynamics and feel. I like the feeling when a RWD squats slightly under straightline acceleration. I like the slight "tail-out" sensation when I accelerate in a turn, and the way the car takes a set when I feather the throttle. These things matter to someone who wants to feel more connected to their car. In my opinion, that's why most top-flight sports sedans are RWD... not because they have 5% more capability at the limits.
If you don't know what I'm referring to, I suggest that you test drive a Honda Civic CRX and a Mazda Miata back to back, at about six-tenths. Both are very good handling cars, but the FWD and RWD give them each a very different character, even when not near the limits. I happen to like the dynamics of the RWD.
So I chose a G35 over the Acura. And as we all know, that's just me and my opinion.
Merci Montréal
That's the point some of us here have been trying to make. I think everyone knows there are differences in driving dynamics between FWD and RWD. AND, you also have to keep in mind that aside from purely driving pleasure, FWD is much more of an all-season option whereas RWD is not.
I think for 80% of the driving population, if they encountered the "tail out sensation" they pee in their pants
What realy does matter to people? We could break it down to the most basic level and find out ultimately an XG300 will satisfy 90% of the driving publics requirements. Does the GT3 provide better transporation than the XG300 on traffic clogged highways and streets? Probably not.
Sure you can make the case you in one vehicle you crawl in style. But then again one can make the case a modicum of luxury is nice. Maybe you can even make the case that know the difference between FWD/RWD and for their own reasons they choose one drivetrain or another.