Please help me decide between...

wsuguy

Hi everybody,

Im a student looking for a get around car. I need your help.

There is a 91' Toyaota Camry,153k,auto--$1550
Average Condition

and

93'Nissan Altima,111k,5spd-$2300
between clean and average

I don't know which one to buy. I need ur opinion i'll drive 6k a year at a maximum.

which one is good in terms of resale value after two years.

please reply

Thanks in advance
wsuguy

blh7068

So you have looked at and drove both?

Without input- which do you prefer?

Based on what you said I'd go with the Altima...little newer/lower miles/in better shape.

Dont worry about resale value. 11 and 14 year old cars with that kind of mileage have pretty much the residual value left(IOW- there's not much depreciation left to be had).

Good luck.

stickguy

plus, the Altima has a 5 speed, so you eliminate the chance of the auto tranny going belly up, and on a car like that Camry, that is a fatal wound.

I also prefer sticks, especially on 4 cyl cars, so I know which one I would go after (assuming they are roughly the same condition otherwise).

bobst

Our son drives our 93 5-sp Altima with 130K miles, and it is still a wonderful car. One of the best we have ever owned.

Too bad the new ones got so big in the butt.

isellhondas

Clutches and manual transmissions go bad too.

It sounds like the poster is concerned about resale values.

Camrys are MUCH more in demand and five speeds can be tough to unload. Few people share stickguy's opinion of them.

Both good cars.

tblazer503

at 2300, there isn't much "depreciation" left there. even at two years, most cars hit a number and just hover there.

Personally, I would be much more concerned with maintanence/repair costs. Take both in to a mechanic and have it checked out. If it is a private sale, ask for maintenance records... looking for engine tune-up, timing belt change, clutch change(for the manual), auto trans flush(for auto), etc. Any one of these could drive up your maintenance costs pretty heavily unless you do all the maintenance yourself(tune-up $100, Timing belt change 6-900, clutch change 3-500, auto trans service 100-200, etc)

steine13

http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/auto.htm

something to ponder.
I'm with the guys who say have it checked out. 11 or 13 years old, it's all in the condition. no way to tell from here. and at that age, the stick is less likely to give trouble. if the clutch is good now, it'll be good two years from now, if you know what you're doing.
-Mathias

flashwave

I am looking to get a used SUV, and have narrowed my list down to the following choices:

1997 - 2000 Explorer (with SOHC V6).
Approx price: $7,000 - $9,000.
Not really my top choice, but the least expensive route. The positive thing is that they've lost so much of their re-sale value, it seems to make them relatively better values. The downside is that most of them seem to have around 80k - 120k miles on them. I'm worried that with a Ford, this is right about when I might start running into bigger repair expenses, making them not such a good value after all.

1997 - 2000 4Runner (with 3.4L V6).
Approx price: $11,000 - $15,000.
Since I've decided on a used car about 3 - 7 years old, I thought I might be better off in the long run going with Toyota reliability. I've seen a wide range of miles on used 4Runners in this price range, from as low as 40k to over 150k.

1998 - 2000 Land Cruiser (with V8).
Approx price: $23,000 - $26,000.
Somewhat surprisingly, I've seen alot of Land Cruisers in this range with relatively low miles (50k - 60k). In fact I saw just as many Land Cruisers with low miles as ones with high miles. I wonder why that is? Do alot of Land Cruiser owners not use their cars that much?

A rather wide price range, as you can see. If I went with the Explorer, I would only keep it for a few years (after which I would probably look to buy a used 2003 4Runner). If I went with the 4Runner, I'd probably keep it for around 3 to 4 years. If I went with the Land Cruiser, I would want it to last at least the next 5 years.

As a rough guide, I figured that with the Explorer I should look for one with under 80k miles, if possible. With either the 4Runner or Land Cruiser, I figured that anything under 100k miles was still safe, as I have read people saying that these have run as long as 200k miles or more. And I saw plenty of 4Runners and Land Cruisers with less than 70k miles or so, which I figured would be especially good buys. Also, I only put about 6,500 miles on my car each year, so especially with the more reliable Toyotas I figure I'd outgrow the car before it became an issue.

So, all things being equal, any suggestions on what limits or how many miles would be ideal on those models I'm considering? I know there are other factors to consider such as whether the miles on the car were primarily highway or city miles, and how well the car was maintained. But those seem difficult to verify unless the owner kept all service records, and the claims of "mostly highway miles" seems impossible to verify at all. Also one last thing, again with all other things being equal, would you go with an older car with fewer miles or a newer one with more? Say between a 1998 with 70k miles and a 1999 with 90k miles, which one would you choose?

isellhondas

All over the board!

Explorers can be troublesome as they age. Look for condition over miles. A car can have 100K and be in better shape than a mistreated one with 60K.

A Land Cruiser is a huge land yacht. Unless you REALLY need a clumsy gas hog, I would lean toward the 4 Runner.

flashwave

Yeah, I am sort of all over the map. Actually, my ideal car would be a 2003 4Runner Limited. If I could get an SR5 with leather, I would do that. However it appears that Toyota intentionally only offers leather on the Limited to make more people buy it, and I am not ready to spend ~$35k on a Limited.

So my choices are sort of geared towards that goal. Buy either a less expensive Explorer or 4Runner now, and then in a couple years buy the 2003 4Runner I want used after it has depreciated about 40% or so. I considered the Land Cruiser because I thought it a good alternative to the new 4Runner Limited, at a decent price. Do you really consider it that big? Checking it's dimensions, the Land Cruiser isn't that much bigger than the new 4Runner. The new 4Runner is 189 inches long, 73.8 inches wide, and 71.6 inches tall. The Land Cruiser is 192.5 inches long, 76.4 inches wide, and 73.2 inches tall. I still consider the Land Crusier "midsize". It's definately not in the Sequoia, Expedition, etc size. Gas mileage is much worse than the 4Runner, but I only drive about 6,500 miles a year, so I am not as concerned with the mileage it gets.

About the miles, I would look for good condition first and have the car checked by a mechanic. But say I find several cars that all check out well, then the one with lower miles would be better right?

alfster1

Have you considered purchasing an SR5 and then having custom aftermarket leather surfaces added?

The Landcruiser that you mentioned is a great SUV and has a nice bit of cachet. Yes,it is big and ponderous, but not much more so than the current 03-04 4Runner. Considering body styles haven't changed in a good while, an older model LandCruiser would be a nice buy.

steelcruiser

Landcruiser clumsy?!?! Don't think so. Compared to a Porsche of course, but not compared to other SUVs of comparable size. Gas hog, it's no Prius, but I get close to 20 on the hwy and 15+ around town in my '02 and my '94 wasn't that much worse mileage wise.

flashwave

About the LandCruiser, that's what I was thinking. On the outside, the '98 through '04 models all look practically identical to me. So I could get a '98 or '99 and it doesn't look dated at all. Not much else changed modelwise either. The biggest change appears to be the 2000 model getting traction control and VSC, along with leather and sunroof becoming standard. But almost all the '98 and '99s I've seen have leather, sunroof, and 3rd row seats anyways. Plus I've seen several 1998, 1999, and 2000s for sale in the $23k to $25k price range, with 50k-70k miles only and described as very well maintained, mint condition, etc. Seeing as these go for $50k+ new, picking up a good condition 1999 with 60k miles for $24k seems like a nice deal. I wonder if alot of these Land Cruisers served as second family cars, used part of the time, which is why there seem to be a higher percentage of them with lower miles than same year 4Runners or Explorers, which seem to average higher miles - maybe because they are the only car and used all the time.

I could go for the aftermarket leather on an SR5, but after thinking about it, it is probably still more than I'd be willing to spend now.

isellhondas

I like Landcruisers but after having driven a couple, yeah, they just feel clumsy to me.

Unless a person REALLY **needs** one I can see little use for one.

But...that's just my opinion!

steenh1

My theory is that anyone that can afford a new Landcruiser probably doesn't like the idea of driving a 4-5 year old car and buys another new one... I bought a 99 with 80k miles and far from clumsy, it has an unbelievable ride for a truck. The other thing to consider is that your $24k LC won't depreciate all that much over the years where an Explorer would hit the end of it's days during that time. I've seen 200k+ LC's selling for over $10k.

alfster1

Out of the three vehicles mentioned, I would go with the Landcruiser. It is spacious, relatively well priced, likely to be in great shape, and will last a long time. Previous model 4Runners are good overall, but they have cramped interiors and more interior noise. With the Landcruiser, you'll have lots of luxury, space, and true offroad-ability.

rroyce10

..... LC's, great vehicles .! should run til 150/200k+ properly serviced, failures are few, can't tell the difference between a 30ker and a 90ker and has the resale value of a Rolex ... a great buy with a great history.

                    Terry.

rdevos

Having owned a 4-Runner and now own a LC I would like to enter my thoughts. Alfster1 summed it up pretty well. The LC is one of the most capable off road vehicles on the road today. Of the three choices you are looking at the other two are not in the same league. My 4-Runner was a terrific vehicle, but it is limiting. With the LC there are very few limits. Cost is a factor, but as one wrote the resale is high. Most will not part with one unless they buy another LC. It is a solid vehicle on and off the road. I'm not big on the running/step boards but they come off easy. With a house full of ladies I really hear it but, when I done with my 4 wheeling trips it is civilized again for them. I also own a newer Jeep Sahara Wrangler, which I also would rate higher then the 4-Runner or the Ford, but that is just my long love affair with Jeeps. The LC is heavier then the other two selections, and it will require high grade gas, not regular. When off roading you never have to second guess will I make it back with the LC. Bottom line buy the LC and you will not have to trade up later. Good luck
2000 LC
2000 Wrangler

151ranch

Okay, welcome all opinions on the following. My husband and I need a commuter car with the following parameters:

New or low-mileage used
Manual Transmission
fairly speedy
good handling
4 seater
hatchback/wagon
low maintanence
less than $20k

To give you an idea of what I mean - my husband's favorite car was a Rabbit GTI, mine was a CRXsi - alas, they are both at the great junk yard in the sky.

I imagine we will keep this for at least 150k miles, so no Korean cars need apply.

thel

Or a used Protege5. Meets everything you just mentioned.

Toyota Matrix would work to, but its not as fun to drive, which from your post sounds like an important consideration.

jaserb

there's also the Civic Si. I like it just for the dash mounted shifter, if nothing else. They're going for cheap, I understand.

-Jason

lancerfixer

Mazda 3, without question. It'll remind you a lot of the GTi. What a blast to drive.

18fan

Look at the Toyota Matrix, or its twin the Pontiac Vibe... same car but rebadged as a Pontiac... and for less money.

prodigalsun

The Mazdaspeed protege is a gas in the corners.
The Sentra SER Spec V has a great suspension, if you like uncivilized raw cornering ability, and gutsy torqe.
The Neon SRT 4 was the most fun of all to drive, quickest, but I'd give the nod to the Mazdaspeed in the cornering department.

If you want to step down a bit, I'd go for the Mazda 3, Sentra SER, and that'd be about it.

racer63

I'll throw out an 00+ Celica GT as another alternative. Basically drives like a CRX Si, except with power steering and having some kid sized rear seats, makes it a little more useful. There are still a few leftover P5's around me being advertised for stupid cheap, like 13.5k...if that is a real price, that's a deal.

jinx13

After several weeks of obsessive research I've finally decided to replace my '95 Saturn SL1 with a new Ford Focus zx5. I'm partial to yellow cars, and the first dealer I went to offered a yellow zx5, premium pkg (incl. leather seats, moonroof, 6-cd), sticker price ~19,000; offer price 13,100. HOWEVER, the car doesn't have ABS. I found a red zx5 without the above amenities, with ABS, sticker price ~17,500; offer price 13,500.

Clearly the yellow zx5 is the better deal, I just can't make up my mind if ABS is important enough to turn down the car because of it. And it does have side air bags, which the red car doesn't. (surviving an accident vs. avoiding one, I suppose!)

anyone have thoughts on this?

thnx!
jen

ramped

Normally, I'd say ALWAYS buy with ABS, but your first choice does have side airbags along with everything else you want, including color. Under the circumstances, and since you probably are getting a better deal on the yellow car, I'd say go for it...but take it easy on wet roads!

bobst

From our experience with a Ford, the car will spend almost all of its life in the repair shop, so there is very little chance of you being hurt in an accident.

The biggest danger is being run down as you walk to work or the grocery store.

vikd

That was pretty rough bobst...!

Regards... Vikd

ramped

Hey, before you buy that Chrysler bus, try and get the wife to the Saturn store and try a VUE Redline. What a hoot! AWD, V6, and in black absolutely wicked looking. Of course, there isn't any third row seat, but, hey, you're the man of the house, right.... :^)

vikd

...you never stop rubbing it in do you ;-/

Saturn VUE Redline? I guess i've never heard of it. Does it have the Honda V6 mated to the CVT tranny?

Might be interesting but, as you said, we're in more need of a bus...

Regards... Vikd

ramped

I know. I'll leave you to pursue the family truckster in peace.

By the way, the Redline is Saturn's performance series. It's got a regular transmission (I think 5 speed with the 6) and the Honda engine. Has 18" wheels and some ground effects. I've vaguely been thinking about a Vue to replace the old warhorse Maxima, and this one really yanked my chain. Pretty quick, pretty good looking, lots of room (relatively speaking) for the offspring and fun to drive. Bit on the pricey side, though (about 26K), and interior materials quality aren't the best. But, a pretty good effort from the General.

Also drove a Hummer, too. Think that'd work for you?

sdfanintx

It doesn't look like anybody has posted here for awhile, but I will give this a try. I have a request similar to Post #23...in fact, very similar, but maybe there is some updated information to consider here. I need a commuter car and I drive close to 2000 miles/month and must be able to fit 3 kids in case of emergency (i.e. have 4 doors and fit 2 carseats and one child in back-even a civic can accomplish this). This vehicle must:

-be new or used
-be less than $20k
-get decent gas mileage (25 mpg or better)
-last 200k miles

I am partial to Honda and currently have an Accord that is at the end of her rope. We are considering a Honda CRV and a Mazda 3 (5 door). We have also test-driven the Prius and the Civic hybrid. Although I love the Prius, there are too many unknowns and too many expensive compnonents to worry about post-warranty. Anyways, if you have any comments on the CRV or the Mazda 3, or have other recommendations, I would appreciate it greatly.

qbrozen

At the moment, I'd have to say I'm partial to the Mazda5. seating for 6, 6-cd changer, steering wheel audio controls, auto climate control, etc. for right under $20K (for a manual tranny). You can get one even cheaper without those nice features I mention, though.

ghulet

....I'd probably pick an Accord LX, unless you 'must' have sportiness or leather and/or sunroof. It has everything you need, should last many miles without much effort, and stickers under $20k; with a little haggling, you may even be able to pick up an EX for under $20k. The 3 is nice, but a bit small (though versatile with the hatchback), but I think actually use more gas than an Accord.

manamal

As much as I hate to say this, a new camry might be good for you. Pleanty of interior room and 30+ mpg on the highway. And it always runs. The downside is it is a car completely devoid of personality (which is why I am now driving a Subaru Forester)

suydam

If you're partial to Honda you won't like the Camry. It will seem too floaty. I also think the Honda LX is your best bet for a sedan. If the children aren't riding there on a regular basis that would be fine and suit your commuting needs well. If they do ride there often and you need bigger accommodations in the back seat, how about a used Nissan Quest minivan or the previous generation Toyota Sienna, which is smaller than the new one? Both would be reliable and are less bulky than the current generation Sienna and Odyssey.

sdfanintx

All good suggestions. I actually saw the Mazda 5 when I test drove a Mazda 3 this past weekend...very cool, but there is virtually no cargo space if you use the back seat(s). From what I have seen both advertised and in forums, I could probably get an Accord LX or Camry at or below invoice, with Camrys listed as cheap as 15k.

I am partial to Honda because I have a mechanic that works solely on Hondas and Acuras...greta, trustworthy guy, but doesn't work on other vehicles. Additionally, I know where to get a good, cheap extended warranty from American Honda Care. We have one on our Odyssey, but don't know if I would need one on a Civic/Accord/CR-V.

Towing the kids around is a very small concern...I would say gas mileage and reliability will factor in most. The kids would be an excuse to get something with a little more room like a CR-V. I have heard wonderful things about a CR-V, but have also heard of two issues: a pull-to-the-right problem and a "loud ride" while driving on the freeway.

I had a '89 Mazda 323 that I drove for 180k miles. Is there any reason to believe that a Mazda or Nissan wouldn't last as long as a Toyota or Honda (200k miles)?

qbrozen

I actually saw the Mazda 5 when I test drove a Mazda 3 this past weekend...very cool, but there is virtually no cargo space if you use the back seat(s).

But if you are comparing to a sedan ... you'd still come out ahead. I think 2 carseats AND another passenger is a tight fit in a sedan. In the Mazda5, its 2 carseats, the extra passenger rides in the back, and half of the back seat can still be folded down, leaving more cargo room than any sedan trunk would provide. Just my .02

suydam

>Is there any reason to believe that a Mazda or Nissan wouldn't last as long as a Toyota or Honda (200k miles)?

Not from my perspective. I've owned all 4 makes over the years and all of them have been very reliable. A slightly used NIssan Maxima would be more back seat room than the Accord sedan but way more fun to drive than the CRV. It is a V6 so not quite as good as the 4 cyl accord, but not bad either -- we got 30 mpg on our last highway drive. More like 23 or so around town. However, if you like the Accord, you won't go wrong with that choice either.

asafonov

Since you mentioned that you already own an Odyssey, and Towing the kids around is a very small concern...I would say gas mileage and reliability will factor in most. , I would suggest a new Corolla. Bulletproof reliability, boring to drive, very decent interior, outstanding gas mileage (just got a 42 highway mpg on a prev-gen 5-speed.) Quite a bit less than 20k, too. Tight fit for the kids in the back though.

We own an Accord, too, and 3 kids (not all mine!) in the back fit about as well in it as in the Corolla, which was my reason for suggesting the latter over the Accord. If you do need to haul the kids more frequently than, say 3-4 times a month or once a week, just get something with 3 rows of seats - another minivan (MPV or used Villager/Quest), a Mazda 5, etc.

kedvale76

HI everyone,I live in Denver,CO. where it frequently snows and i want a sports car BADLY!!! Just one thing i want a corvette but with the low ground clearance and not so snow freindly tires i probably would have to pass on the corvette. Whats would be the alternative???PLEASE HELP.!!

guss

depends on your budget, for about $30k I would look at the Subaru STI. I have a neighbor that has one and it is hands down the best bang for the buck in awd sports cars. For a little less the Subaru WRX is also nice , but not as quick as it's big brother.

likeitornot

After a few months of saving and looking for a Civic, I decided not to go with it. I've now decided to definitley get a Ford Focus. I test drove one and I actually liked it better than the Civic.

I *need* to get a car by the end of this month and am getting it from a reliable, trusted dealership so there is no shopping around.

They have a 2005 Focus SE, 21000 miles. I like everything about it but it's not my first choice in color. I don't hate the color, I just really love the way the grays look. It's a light color that I could live with and at least it's not red which I despise. lol.

They have a grey LX coming tomorrow I am supposed to go look at. I don't know the year or mileage, just that it's around 9,000 which is an awesome price. Some of the differences are no power windows and locks, smaller wheels and the steering wheel isn't adjustable.

I think crank windows will annoy me, but I really don't think I need them. I don't really like windows open, I never go through drive thrus so I don't have that problem.. I think while driving I might like the passenger side window down but not a big deal.

I think as long as I can put a keyless entry in it I'd like it..I'd be all set with that..

I rather have an MP3/CD player..but I guess I could always add that later..

I rather go new. But I don't think the guy helping me pay for the car is going to be too crazy about it..lol 3,000 price difference in the used 05. But new sounds bad or "ridiculous" as someone put it when they found out I was interested in one.

They said sometimes they geta bunch of used focuses in and then none for a while. I feel stuck but don't want to settle either. Even the new grey they had had too much options I don't need. It's just going to be a car to get me places to places but I don't want to be stuck with something I don't like for 3yrs or so either. Someone was telling me how if I don't like the color, when I start getting sick of the car I'll really start hating it.

Advice on deciding? I'm driving everyone here nuts. lol. :sick:

asafonov

Disclaimer: I've never driven a Focus, so this is general advice.

First, I think it is probably a good idea to go the used route when buying a Focus or another domestic compact. The savings over new are pretty incredible - with the caveat of, where is this 2005 vehicle coming from? Most likely, it was used as a rental; this may be ok if the rental car company maintained it at least minimally. I would still be a little concerned about a break-in being done properly. How about trying to find one through a private sale - maybe a family had twins and is upgrading to a larger vehicle? Advertise in the wanted section of Craigslist?

Were you planning to have the used vehicle checked out by a mechanic? Always a good idea, even if buying under warranty.

They have a grey LX coming tomorrow I am supposed to go look at. I don't know the year or mileage, just that it's around 9,000 which is an awesome price. Some of the differences are no power windows and locks, smaller wheels and the steering wheel isn't adjustable.

The price is indeed thousands lower than the TMV on the new one... but keep in mind it will not be easy to resell it if needed, with its manual locks and crank windows. And yes, I am occasionally annoyed by crank windows in one of our cars. If you ever have passengers (think kids) in the car, power windows and locks (and keyless entry) are even more important, almost safety features.

I think as long as I can put a keyless entry in it I'd like it..I'd be all set with that..
You certainly could do that, but make sure you work with a reputable installer (which may not be the cheapest out there), and verify that the vehicle's manufacturer's warranty is not voided.

You refer to somebody helping you buy this car... not clear if this is a relative/friend, or a part of your job compensation. These are different scenarios. And new does not necessarily sound bad or "ridiculous"... some cars (Civics, Accords and Toyota trucks/SUVs come to mind) are usually better buys new.

After your budget is defined (which I was not sure about), I think your options become clearer. If you can spend no more than 10k, I would NOT buy new and look for a used Protege or perhaps a newer Focus (if you are not limited to compacts, then Taurus/Impala and perhaps ca. 2001 Camry come into play.) If your budget is 15k, I would go with a new base Corolla - or a new base Mazda3i if one can be bought close to that amount.

fordfool

> After a few months of saving and looking for a Civic, I decided not to go with it.

Yes, the used Civics and Corollas are pricey compared with the domestics.

> I've now decided to definitely get a Ford Focus. I test drove one and I actually liked it better than the Civic.

My wife bought a used Budget Rental 2004 Focus in June 2004, six months old with 10,300 miles. The new Focuses had $3000 rebates that drove down the price of the used ones. She paid $2000 less than the TMV on a new Focus, about $6000 under MSRP. She enjoys the sporty feel and high view of her Focus.

> I *need* to get a car by the end of this month and am getting it from a reliable, trusted dealership so there is no shopping around.

The rental companies auction thousands of their Focuses every month with 10-15,000 miles. Every Ford dealer around has dozens of these Taurus and Focus ex-rentals (Buffalo is a blue-collar union city). You should be able to find exactly what you want in color and options by looking around.

Edmund's TMV on a 2006 Focus SE is about $14,300 including a $1500 rebate. You can buy a used 2005 for about $12,300.

Ford Fool

catincal

I'm in the market for a new car as I recently totalled my baby... (a 2001 Acura CL that I LOVED). As much as I wish that I could just get my car back, I'm leaning towards getting a convertible. The price range I'm looking at is around 25,000 - a little over is okay, but not over 30. I don't want anything older than a 2002, as my family tends to drive cars until they die. Safety is also a big concern, which is why a convertible may not be an entirely conceiveable option, but I'm still interested in looking into it because, hey, looks matter too :shades:
I need something with good pickup since I'm used to my 225 hp auto up in car heaven. I'm also a 21 year old female, so obviously I want something that's cute (I could avoid the subject, but honesty is the best policy).

These are some cars I'm looking into... any insight would be great...

2003ish Audi TT Roadster
This is my top option right now

2002/3 BMWCic convertible
2002/3 Volvo C70 HT Convertible
These two are probably my next two choices

2003 Saab 9-3 SE Convertible

The other option would be to get something newer that's less expensive like the eclipse, but I feel like I would be sacrificing safety...

What do you think?!?!

british_rover

The Solara should be on your list. It is kind of boring though so I can see that being a a problem.

jlawrence01

Unless you want to know your dealership service department technicians, I would drop the 2003 Saab 9-3 SE Convertible.

I have a Saab 9-3 in my fleet and rarely does it go two months without a stop at the dealership usually for an electrical problem - sunroof, door locks, headlights, etc.

kyfdx

I agree with british_rover... If you have any sort of budget at all, you probably don't want to buy any of the cars on your list... You'll need a big slush fund for repairs/maintenance...

I'd stick with the Solara...

Seriously, if your budget is $25K-$30K, and you absolutely have to have one of your choices, you'd be better off leasing a new Saab or BMW.. Free maintenance included.

regards,
kyfdx

tsgeisel

Have you looked into a Miata?

You can, in fact, get a *new* Miata for the price of any of those used ones.