Please help me decide between...

carlover20

While looking at cars the other day I saw a Lincoln Aviator. I have done some research on them thay are a good car except for the reliability. But i figure since they are based on the Ford Explore they will be easy to fix. I bought the 2003 model with 60,000 miles for $14,000. It has everything I want and I love it.

qbrozen

coincidentally enough, i was sitting behind one at a light today and thought "i bet that is a good buy used."

pkbrides

I am interested in the Pontiac Vibe, but in the oft chance that I am not able to purchase one, I am looking to the Grand Am as an alternative. Is the Grand Am a good idea for someone who enters into a budget more stringent than planned?

oregonboy

Think $4 and up for gasoline. Then ask yourself again. :surprise:

james

jlawrence01

25 mpg for the Grand Am, 33 for the Vibe. You decide.

cccompson

No, the Grand Am is not a good alternative.

steine13

The Vibe is an economy car and doesn't do a good job pretending it is anything else. That said, I just bought my second one.

Among the highest quality of any car built today.

The Grand Am is an example of what happens when the General DOESN'T try. I live in Lansing, MI, where the Grand Am was built. They areeverywhere. And so are the stories about hub assemblies failing by the score, interiors falling apart, all the stuff you expect from a domestic manufacturer who's putting his resources into trucks rather than cars.

I've known tons of people who had these, and even GM employees will admit they're pretty much junk. It's no contest. Also, teh Vibe has more usable room, whatever the classification is.

The only downside: The Vibe is hard to find used for a good price. Buy a new one in January, when the '09 comes out.
-Mathias

suydam

If you can't afford a new one, buy used. It's true they are a little hard to find -- you have to snap one up when it comes along. But it can be done, and you will save probably 4-6 k off buying a new one (we bought an '04 in July). Better a used Vibe that will be reliable and good on gas mileage than an unreliable and uneconomical Grand Am.

jlawrence01

I agree with Mathias ... a good used Vibe at a reasonable price is HARD to find.

When I was in the market, a Chevrolet dealership in Milwaukee wanted $10k for a 2003 Vibe automatic with 90k miles which to me, seemed pretty steep.

Then, I had my brother check out a car in Cincinnati - a 2004 Vibe for $11.5, 36k miles, but unfortunately, a manual transmission.

Personally, I would buy new on this model.

pkbrides

Even in the searches that I have had, the vibe is pretty hard to find, but what would be a good alternative if I can't find a vibe. Those things are being sucked up everywhere it seems.

I liked the vibe because I had enough room to be comfortable (at 6-2) and it does good on gas. I drove one up to Philadelphia for work last year.

But if the vibe turns out hard to find, what would be a good alternative, keep in mind that I cannot do a new car right now (because I am in school.)

jlawrence01

Even in the searches that I have had, the vibe is pretty hard to find, but what would be a good alternative if I can't find a vibe.

Mechanically, the Vibe is on the Corolla platform. I am the same size as you are (but wider) and I frive the Corolla. In all fairness, the Corolla is another car that I would only buy new ... but it is $3-5k cheaper.

oregonboy

The Toyota Matrix is the same car under the skin as a Vibe, and in my opinion, a more attractive one.

Alternatives that I would consider are the Mazda 3 and 6 wagons, or the older Mazda Protege P5. If you like AWD, the Subaru Impreza wagon would be a good choice.

The Mazdas are, perhaps the best buy in the used market, as they seem to depreciate more quickly.

james

kyfdx

Ditto on the Mazda3 hatch.... They are starting to fall in price..

The only drawback? The hatch comes standard with the bigger engine, and probably won't match the Vibe in MPG...

sandiegogogo

I need some help. My BMW 5.30 XIT with 26K miles ('06, loaded) has 1 month left on the lease. My residual is approx $43K. Here is my question: I don't want to lease again, I want to buy a car/SUV that I can keep at least 8 more years. I don't want to spend more than $40K before TTL (absolute max - ideally $40K out the door). Should I buy my wagon if I can get it for $40K, buy a used 06 Cayenne CPO with 10K miles (few options) listed at $36,995 - or take advantage of the Yukon XL SLE deal of the month on Edmunds.com. If I buy used, is certified a must (or should I just get my own warranty?)
I've never owned a non-German car -- & I'm scared I'm too much of a car snob! HELP! I want a great deal, and a reliable FUN family car.

Thanks!

san diego go go! :confuse:

qbrozen

I don't know about 8 years in a Porsche SUV. I mean, I guess if you can afford the maintenance, it seems to be a better buy than the bimmer (i'm shocked at that residual, by the way).

I would suggest, however, you take a look at something with potentially better resale and far lower maintenance costs, like an MDX?

tidester

I recommend doing a little research on vehicles that fit your needs and going out for a few test drives just to try them out!

Generally, if you expect a used vehicle to last eight years you probably want it certified. As far as your wagon is concerned I think the question is "are you happy with it?" However, don't expect to pay anything less than the residual.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

mcrrt

I welcome any and all opinions...

I've owned a 2004 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited since new. Currently has 39K miles, owe $6K, have about 20 payments left. While I like it well enough and it's been reliable, my "frugal" side is having a harder and harder time reconciling with the cost of keeping gas in it (roughly $40-50/week). I owned a Civic back in the mid '90s and liked it, am considering replacing the Jeep with a CPO '04 or '05 Civic LX or EX. Running the numbers, it looks like I would be trading even for payment and term, as I would end up owing almost exactly the same on the Honda as I do on the Jeep. I figure the gas savings should add up to approximately $900/year based on $3.20/gallon gas. I'd like to take the savings and funnel them into credit repayment and retirement savings. I do realize my first years savings would be offset by the tax paid on the Honda purchase, and it looks like the Civic would cost about $20/month more to ensure (what's up with that? :confuse: ). My wife will be going back to school soon, so mileage may go up on the Honda, increasing potential savings. I also am getting to "that age" (35) where I'm finding myself a little more preoccupied with safety for my wife, kids, and self, and realize that the Civic is more crash-worthy than a fabric topped Jeep.

But the Jeep looks really cool.

We have a van that serves as our primary family transporter, so the Civic would see 95% of it's use just shuttling myself or my wife to work and back.

What do you think I should do?

cccompson

Because they retain value so well, late model Civics (especially a CPO) simply aren't good values IMHO.

If you really want one, either buy a new one (and get all the safety features) or a privately owned used one.

bucca4us

Hello,

I'm looking at older BMWs for sale. Which is the better option... an older car with less miles or a newer car with more.

'94 BMW 525i w/ 102,000 miles. $3900 Blue Book $6,045

or

'98 BMW 528i w/ 175,000 miles. $4795 Blue Book $7925

Both vehicles are in very good condtion. Assuming I'm have no personal preference to either, which makes more sense from a financial and reliability standpoint? Which would be more inclined to need repairs in the near future?

Thanks,
Stephen

qbrozen

I say 525, hands down. Will be less expensive to maintain (the old 2.5 is a very very sturdy engine). And I wouldn't get one 4 years newer with 73k more miles. I mean, that's like 18k for each year, which is high. IF they were closer in price and IF the newer model only gained 12k per year, I would have a tougher decision to make.

That '94 seems like a good deal if its clean.

mazda6dude

I am thinking about buying either the 2008 Honda Accord LX-P or 2008 Chevy Malibu LT1. Which is better in terms of price, value and just overall? Please help me decide. Thanks.

bolivar

Buy a HOnda.

british_rover

Drive them both and report back.

Buy the Honda new but buy the Malibu new. GM just won't be able to resist massive rebates and I am sure resale value on the malibu will be pathetic.

qbrozen

you meant malibu used, didn't you?

which is what i would suggest .... BUT, the '08 is all new, so that would be a problem if that's what the poster is interested in.

tncarman

My son and I have been looking for his first car for quite a while now and he's narrowed it down between two cars of which I approve, but he is having a hard time making us his mine as to which one he'll choose. They aren't exact cars but roughly year and models. It's down between a 99 to 01 Pontiac Grand Prix GT or a 99-00 Chrysler Sebring LXi coupe. We drove bot and even then he couldn't rally decide, and as for me I think both are good cars, even though i myself have driven a 2000 Chrysler Sebring JXi convertible for 7 years and its been extremely reliable from the beginning, so naturally I kind of lean towards that, but I wanted some outside advice. Much apprectiated- tncarman

british_rover

Yeah thats what I meant. There will be used ones out around faster then there will be used hondas.

mazda6dude

I have looked at the prices and there is about a $3000 price difference when comparing both. Looking at it from the price range, do you believe buying a new Malibu is better then a new honda accord?

qbrozen

well, you asked BR, but I'm going to answer. NO!
Just look at resale value. In 3 years you will lose AT LEAST that $3k more on the malibu vs the accord. Just to make it clear, and I'll use round numbers ... let's say the Accord is $20k and the Malibu $17k. 3 years from now, that Honda is worth $12k, while the 'Bu is worth around $7500. So you spend $3k now and have a car worth $4500 more later down the road.

joel0622

So in the long run it nets you $1500 right?

This is just me but for $1500 spread over 3 years I would buy the car I really want. I guess if you wanted to get nit picky about it you could factor in the sales tax on the extra $3K you will pay up front plus if you are financing, the interest charged on the extra $3K over the 3 years.

mazda6dude

yeah, thats very true. The way I see it, if there is more than a $3k difference I will probably buy the Malibu since GM has a 5yr/100K powertrain warranty and I drive about 24K a year. Otherwise, I will get the accord. some dealers are giving a $1000 cash allowance if you own a non GM car and want to buy the Malibu. All the reviews I have read for the malibu have been very good. i saw it at a car show and the interior is magnificient.

qbrozen

This is just me but for $1500 spread over 3 years I would buy the car I really want.

Its definitely not just you. But I figure when someone asks a question like this, they must not be emotionally drawn to one over the other.

joel0622

Good point

jaxs1

Also, if someone likes or prefers something about the Malibu such as styling and the extra sound insulation for a ride quieter than even a Camry, it might be worth it to them even with the lower resale value.

I wonder if the Accord resale value is really enough to wipe out all other higher costs especially if the street price difference after discounting is greater than MSRP indicates?
The Accord will have better resale value and will have cheaper manufacturer sponsored extended warranties (due to expected higher reliability after the factory warranty expires). I think everything else about it will be more expensive than a Malibu.

Extra purchase price + tax + interest + opportunity cost lost on that extra money. Maybe higher scheduled maintenance costs and higher insurance costs over several years. Higher theft rate and higher cost to repair body damage may equal higher insurance rates to Accord owners than Malibu owners depending on where they live.

I resent the 4-speed automatic on the 4 cylinder Malibus, but that will be gone in a couple years. Only the LTZ 4 cylinder will have the 6-speed automatic in 2008 (if you can stand the 2-tone leather in the LTZ or even want leather at all regardless of color).

jaxs1

I went to a Honda dealer and a Chevy dealer a few hours ago.
I test drove an LX-P and liked it and was thinking about coming back in a few weeks to buy it the week between Christmas and New Years.
Very roomy and it felt very tight and solid. The LX-P cloth was softer and better looking than the cloth on the EX models. I am likely to buy a car like this unless insurance is more than I expect.

I decided to stop by the Chevy dealer to see the new Malibu just to see if would be worth considering.
They only had two 2008 Malibus. An LTZ on the showroom loaded with everything and the black and brick interior. I still don't like it, but didn't look as bad as it does in the photos. Some people may like it.
The only other 2008 they had was an LS almost complete stripped. Just mats and bodyside moldings. Sticker slightly over $20K.
Since I'm more interested in the 4 cylinder gas mileage, I test drove the LS just to see how it would compare to the Accord.
The stripped LS interior actually looked pretty good and lit up really nicely at night with all the ambient lighting touches all over the car including lighted door handles.
The 4 cylinder seemed smoother and quieter than the Accord due to being buried behind tons of sound deading material. The ride was smoother and quieter than the 2008 Accord (and the 2008 Accord is smoother than the 2007s were) It had a hydraulic lift for the hood even on the base LS with 4 cylinder (no hood prop needed). This is really rare on 4 cylinder cars. Even a Lincoln MKZ has a hood prop.
XM radio and OnStar on the base LS. OK sounding stereo.
The 4-speed automatic seemed no worse than the 5-speed Honda transmission.
You get alot for at $20K MSRP. No stability control though. You need to move up to at least an LT to order Stabilitrak.

However, it still was not perfect. The sleek styling made headroom tight front and back. I bumped my head getting in once and the back seat headroom was maginal for 6 footers in the LS. In the LTZ with moonroof, the rear headroom was extremely tight for 6 footers, The rear legroom was adequate due to the cutouts for your knees in the backs of the front seats.
The LS seats seemed comfortable on the test drive, but they may have been a bit too soft to be supportive on a long trip. I would have to drive one on a long trip to find out.

I like the car. An LT without the moonroof option would be a really nice car. If you get the moonroof, tall people can't sit in back. Even without the moonroof, rear headroom is barely adequate.

I may still go with the Accord because of the tight rear seat. The Accord has OK headroom even with the moonroof and the LX models are that much roomier since they don't have moonroofs. LX and L-P sedans are full-size. EX sedans are mid-size due to the space lost by the moonroof.

The Honda also will have much better resale value and you can get a 100K $0 deductible extended warranty for around $750. A similar GM service contract would be more like $1600 on a new Malibu.
If you need a roomy back seat with lots of headroom, the Malibu comes up short, but it was a bit nicer to drive from the front seat.
When the 6-speed automatic becomes available on all 4-cylinders, it will be even nicer to drive, but they cannot do anything about the rear seat space until the next redesign.

The extra $1000 cost of the GM extended warranty vs Honda warranty kind of wipes out the savings of the Malibu vs Accord. If a $1500-$2000 rebate comes, it will look more attractive to me since I don't think invoice price of similarly trim Malibus and Accords are not that far apart. If they came out with a subsidized lease program, that could be attractive. You would be able to drive it for 3 years without worrying about resale and repair or extended warranty costs.
I didn't like the Chevy sales people, they were trying to get me to buy one them by saying they could replace the LTZ leather or put leather in the LS even after I told them more than once I am going to keep looking at other vehicles and would only get an LT with Stabilitrak if I were going to get a Malibu at all.

The Malibu was more comfortable to drive than the Accord, but the Accord is much better for big and tall people to ride in the back seat. The Accord will have much, much better resale value.

asafonov

Both the Accord and the Malibu are first year models. Have you considered deferring your choice and purchase until the 2009 are here? GM and other domestics have a mixed history with new model rollouts, and my Accord (an 03) had a couple of serious issues I had to fix at the dealership - for free, but still a hassle.

mazda6dude

I might wait till 2009. That is a good idea. Or buy towards the end of the model year so that most of the bugs are fixed.

gabenluke

Yesterday, I spent most of the day test driving entry level luxury sedans (Audi A4, Acura TL, Infiniti G35x). I also stopped by the Nissan dealership, and test drove the 08 Altima (fully loaded w/ 4 cyl). The Altima, which I know is not a luxury sedan, is priced at $25500 w/o nav. I could see myself driving this car, but would like to make the jump up into the luxury sedan family. I think I have narrowed my choices down to either the Acura or Infiniti. Problem is, the Infiniti is more expensive ($38k w/nav for an '07) than the TL ($32500 w/o navi). It is a beautiful car, however. I also like the fact that it is AWD where the Acura is FWD. I live in So. Wisconsin and need a car that will bet me through our winters. Also, I drive about 22k per year and was being talked into why leasing would benefit me. Not sure of this either! Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated. :confuse:

suydam

Any reason you didn't try the Nissan Maxima?

gabenluke

I really like the new look of the Altima. Plus, my brother has a Maxima and didn't want to copy.

tifighter

TL with good winter tires seems like it should be snow worthy. You could buy some nice tires for that price difference!

151ranch

I have no thoughts on the G35 vs TL, except to say real-world mileage on the G35 will probably be 5-6 mpg less than the TL. Since you drive quite a bit, that may be another consideration. I only drive MT, and just couldn't get comfortable shifting in the TL. If you just want a nameplate and luxury goodies, why not the TSX? Yeah, it's slower, but it gets good mileage and has all the luxury stuff.

Ahhh, unless you only plan to keep the vehicle 3 years, there is a special lease rate AND you can get a lease with 25k per year.....DON'T LEASE.

exb0

22K per year on a luxury car will cost a lot of money. Remember, luxury cars are not only expensive to buy, they are expensive to keep.

Even though Infinity and Acura are fairly reliable, they are not as reliable as your basic appliances such as Accord, Camry, Civic or Corolla. At 22K mi per year you will be over 100K in less than 5 years. Your car will be worth less than $10K. If you keep it, it will cost a lot of money to repair it at the dealer. Most independent mechanics can’t fix luxury cars because they don’t have the necessary equipment.

Currently I drive 04 Acura TL, and I put only 8K a year on it. Minor service, such as oil change and tire rotation, is $75. Intermediate service at 15K was $260. Major service, at 30K and 60K, will be over $700, and you will have to do it every other year or less. To machine the rotors - $190. And don’t forget the tires. I just replaced the tires on my TL at 30K mi for $900 at Costco. Sport tires cost much more and last only 25K miles. Can you afford $900 for tires just about every year?

I just took a job where I’ll be putting about 20K mi per year on my TL. Trust me, this TL will be my last luxury car, next car will be a Civic. I recently had a rental Civic for a week and I didn’t miss my TL all that much.

My advice would be is to buy yourself an appliance for under $20K and make an Infinity payment on it. After three years when the appliance is paid off, you can buy a toy that you can use on weekends and keep driving the appliance to work. This way, your toy will last you over 10 years.

suydam

>Remember, luxury cars are not only expensive to buy, they are expensive to keep. <

Not necessarily. We have had a Nissan Maxima (not a luxury car, but nicer interior and more fun to drive than the Altima, Accord or Camry) for 6 years that has so far cost us very little in upkeep and certainly no more than if we had a Civic -- just the basics like a battery, muffler, and tires. You don't have to have the expensive services done at the dealership either. The Civic is a great little car, and it might actually be our next car, but if I drove 22k a year I would want to be in a car I enjoyed. The Maxima, Acura, etc. will be much nicer for long drives.

pregan3

Here are the two quotes:

'08 Outback 2.5i automatic for $21,374
'05 Outback 2.5i automatic with 41k miles, certified pre-owned (so remainder of 6 year 100k mile warranty is intact) for $16,700

I've asked other dealers to beat the quote for the '08 and no one can - MSRP is 25,400.

The '05 price is what's listed on the dealer site, so it's obviously flexible but I haven't talked to that dealer yet. The most I would pay for that is 16,000.

My original inclination was pre-owned since I'm starting a new job in the summer and will probably walk to work (so won't be driving a ton). The thing that's bugging me is 5k doesnt seem like a big enough difference between a new car and its 3yo equivalent.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

cccompson

You're right - the difference isn't big enough for 41,000 miles worth of warranty.

tifighter

And if you're financing, don't forget the better interest rates for new over used...

gijoewildbill

Howdy all,

I know that each person will find different vehicles and styles better than others, and that opinions can and will differ. That is why I want to hear from others about their opinions on the matter.

I am looking at purchasing a new vehicle by no later than May of 2009 as that is when my warranty will run out and I will have the funds to upgrade. I am wanting a coupe/convertible preferably. I want something that can have fun with since my next vehicle will probably be another sedan when I have a family a couple of years down the road. Here is the info that will affect my purchase decision:

1) I am almost 21, so I am experienced, but still have a lot to learn about driving. I currently drive a 115 HP FWD 01' VW Jetta with automatic transmission.

2) I would like to get something with more power either I4 or V6 that still gets good gas mileage as I average around 22 to 25 MPG right now. Also, since my Jetta is a FWD, I would like to try a RWD. I don't really need a AWD/4WD as I live in Houston, TX where it is flat and only rains a lot in the Spring. Futhermore, AWD cost more if I need to replace a tire as you usually have to replace all the tires unless I am wrong. However, I am not above a suggestion.

3) I want to get a manual transmission, but need it to be a little easier and/or more forgiving as I will be learning on it. I would like a short throw if possible, but not necessarily a must. I have my father who plans to teach me the basics to start with and then I will practice from there as I own the car and get more and more comfortable with it.

4) I would prefer a coupe/hatchback to a convertible just because I don't really care about it. I currently have a moonroof in my Jetta and I rarely use it. I feel that a coupe with a hard top would be safer in a major accident. Am I wrong? What are your thoughts between the two types?

5) I was hoping at staying around $35K or less out the door with TTL when it was all said and done, but any recommendation will be considered. An example would be like the Honda S2000 that is MSRP at $35 something, higher out the door with TTL before any haggling with the dealer.

6) Last but not least, I don't want a Honda Civic because I do not like the current styling or the two teer instrument cluster. That is the only vehicle I have already tried and thrown out of the mix. Any other suggestions are welcomed.

I would appreciate any suggestions and opinions why I should choose one model over another. Thanks in advance for any help.

Bill

qbrozen

BMW 128i.

Same car I'm considering for my next vehicle for many of the same reasons you list (power, mileage, etc).

gijoewildbill

but wouldnt a bmw have a high ownership cost especially when it comes to repairs and/or routine maintenance?

I know that with my jetta right now, which is also European made, I pay out the rear end whenever it needs something fixed or replaced.

kyfdx

Nothing but tires for the first 4yr/50K miles...