Please help me decide between...

kronogoose

Thanks for the responses. qbrozen, I actually do like the fact you're not giving me an answer! More of a brainstorm, which is exactly what I need. I need to make sure that I have some good "opening arguments" not only to convince myself, but my significant other.

I think on the insurance, I'll alternate "storing" one car for the other. Hopefully, I'll be able to just keep comprehensive coverage (which protects against theft, vandalism and falling objects) on the MS3 while it's parked for the winter. I'll have to check with my lienholder though--some banks require both comprehensive and collision to cover the collateral. Collision tends to be one of the more expensive coverages.

I also have to consider annual tax and registration fees on two cars.

I think you're absolutely right about the Legacy GT--I don't see many on the road. Most Subies around here are of the Outback wagon sort. And the GT is more of a "grown up" car...sheez, I'm nearing 40, so I should be driving a more mature car, right? :confuse:

As far as trading in my Pro5 for a MS6--part of my plan is to have the Pro5 completely paid off. I thought at one point that the MS6 was the car for me, but I like the smaller size and hatch functionality of the MS3. I'm hoping the same thing happens with the pricing of the MS3, though.

Thanks again,

Greg

qbrozen

yeah, you might have a problem with switching insurance around by season. Check with your lienholder AND your insurance company. I know my insurance is very strict and they insist on knowing what cars I have and how they are covered at all times. Basically, I believe, this is to help avoid any unnecessary court time in the future if something were to happen to your vehicle while not covered by them. And its understandable.

jaserb

"I'm hoping the same thing happens with the pricing of the MS3, though. "

Don't hold your breath. As much as I like the 6 Mazda really hit a home run with the 3. Not so much with the 6 - size and styling seems to be a bit off. The standard 6s have always sold somewhat slowly - you can usually get a 6 for about the same price as a comparable 3, if not a bit cheaper. I imagine the hotrod 3 will be easily as hot a seller as the standard 3. Probably hotter.

-Jason

robbieg

By street prices, do youi mean new/leftover? Or do you mean used? Would they be tought to find used? I bought a Legacy GT about a year ago and love the car.

cccompson

"Street price" means actual selling price (as opposed to MSRP). I was referring to a new '06.

bbscan

Assuming the prices were roughly the same would you go with the older BMW or the newer Cadillac based on performance?

qbrozen

miles? condition?

I'd love an M5, but if its already got double the miles, I don't think its worth the risk.

kyfdx

No contest.. The BMW..

Does that make it the better deal? I'll leave that question to others..

mezavala

Hi everyone!
I just sold my old 97 Town and country and I need to make a decision on what car should I buy :confuse:
I'm 26 years old and have a 4 years-old daughter, we live in NY. I use the car to drop my husband to work and to take my daughter to school. I also do some shopping and regular stuff, I love suvs but as we are on a bubget we want to spend 17K tops, besides we want to save gas too, so we were looking into the small economic vehicles. The ones we liked so far are the Nissan Versa and the Dodge caliber.
I don't know anything about cars just that they take me where I want ....The versa is amazingly spacious but the Dodge caliber looks so good on the outside. Any suggestions anyone? Which one is better?
Besides we are thinking of financing...should we lease an inexpensive car?
Thanks in advance for taking the time and helping me out in this dilema...

mezavala

Sorry for the postings, I'm new at this and I obviously suck! I have posted this message like 4 times...

cccompson

Stay away from the Dodge - there's plenty of other truly good cars in your price range. Shop the usual suspects for small cars - Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. It pretty hard to go wrong with any of them.

Broadly speaking, short term leasing may make some sense when you are able to get into a relatively expensive vehicle for much less per month than you could when buying. However, unless the lease is a real no-brainer (example: zero down, $150 per month for 36 month with 12,000 miles per year) I can't see going that route on something that doesn't cost much to start with and that will be not depreciate much (in absolute terms) over the short haul.

Kirstie_H

And, as others have mentioned, the Mazda3 seems to represent a very good value PLUS it's fun to drive. How long do you plan to keep this car?

audia8q

I agree with kirstie....The Mazda3 5-door is the class of the bunch. Consumer Reports and most of the car Magazines agree.

newbee2006

i am considering to buy a wrangler unlimited 4 door .
i'll usually use it on the country side but not on heavy
off road conditions.considering that wranler is a part time
4wd i wonder it would be ok for me to buy a 2wd

qbrozen

Where do you live? Do you get alot of snow?

I'm not sure what you mean about using it on the countryside, but if that means where there is no pavement, could you run into conditions where heavy rains will cause slick muddy areas you have to get through?

In my opinion, Jeeps should not even be made without 4wd.

Oh, and if resale value is at all important to you, a 2wd jeep will be VERY tough to sell.

audia8q

I agree about the 2wd jeep...but get this. We have sold more 2wd CX-7 than awd...and we are in New England. Go figure. I never would have guessed. We rarely sold 2wd tributes.

british_rover

That is odd. How did your month turn out overall?

kyfdx

If you look in the Prices Paid forums, almost everyone gets a 2WD CX-7..

I figure it makes sense... Everyone says that people buy an SUV just for the looks or the high driving position... that almost no one really needs an AWD off-road vehicle.. All of these FWD SUVs seem to fit the bill..

british_rover

Yeah but in New England 2wd SUVs are the kiss of death.

kyfdx

Same thing in the Midwest, mostly... But, I see more and more people driving them... I'm sure as a Land Rover dealer, you'd get customers that wouldn't consider them..

I think for the crossovers, people are less geared to thinking they have to be AWD... Unlike the more traditional SUV..

CX-7, Freestyle, Escape, Vue... even RX350... Buyers don't seem to bat an eyelash at getting FWD only..

qbrozen

its because FWD is still good in the snow.

audia8q

The front wheel drive Tribute is fairly decent in the snow but we don't sell more than a few per year....OTOH, Many of our CX-7 buyers are "downsizing" from something fancier so maybe after having AWD in their previous SUV they decided the extra cost wasnt worth it.

One guy who traded his ML for a CX7-GT FWD said he thinks buying a car for the 360 days it doesn't snow makes more sense than buying one for the 5 days it does snow....he decided that the additional cost of AWD could be better spent elsewhere.

BritRover....not bad but not great either. Used was a little weak and some product delays didn't help either. Most of the month we didn't have more than a few Mazda3 and I have people coming in everyday looking for the new Lincoln MKX and they arent shipping for 2 weeks.

michaellno

Here in Colorado, my wife and I have been driving AWD SUV's for a number of years. First an Expedition, then an Explorer and now a Saturn VUE V6.

One of my wife's co-workers, however, has had two FWD Santa Fe's - the first was an '04, which got traded in this summer for an '07.

A couple of days ago we got slammed with a storm which dropped several inches of snow and ice in the area and had low temps of around 0 or so.

My wife's drive to work that morning was, in her words, "the scariest drive I've ever made" - this coming from someone who grew up in Wyoming and has driven in winter weather her whole life.

The friend with the Santa Fe, who often gets her husband to take her to work on bad weather days, drove herself in and didn't experience any problems whatsoever.

guss

I drive a FWD Escape and did not have a problem in the snow last year. I wish it had traction control, but the higher ground clearance made it easier to get thru the deeper stuff.

After years of driving 4 wheel drive Explorers and a Durango, I figured I used the 4wd about 5 times a year. It just wasn't worth the extra initial cost and the gas mileage penalty.

That being said, I would think twice about getting a rwd Jeep.

candacekthe1

Hello all,

I am a bit confused. I'm trying to get a reliable car for in the 19K-23K range that will be safe and also handle ice and snow well. (I live on Long Island and travel to West Virginia). I have looked at the Jeep Compass, the Subaru Forester, Honda Element, and Hyundai Tuscon.

All of the cars are in the same price range, but I keep getting conflicting information from dealers, forums, and friends/family.

1) Is it true that AWD really isn't good for winter and that it's just something to trick consumers into paying more and thinking they can "go anywhere in the snow/ice"?

2) How important is it REALLY to have AWD/4WD?

3) The Jeep is SUPPOSEDLY a true 4X4 as opposed to an AWD. Is this going to help me on slick/snowy highway conditions or just in off-road situations (of which I forecast few)?

4) Would I be silly to lease/buy a Hyundai despite the fact that it has all the safety features and includes BOTH AWD and 4WD?

Any help or insight is greatly appreciated!!

cccompson

1) It's a combination of the two. AWD (by whatever) name is a benefit in foul weather. Just how much of a benefit is subject to debate. I don't think there's any question that it helps a vehicle to get going from a stop. How much it helps while going to down the road depends on some other factors such as tire tread design and vehicle weight.

I remember a very snowy day many years ago when we lived in Cleveland. The route to get home had several slight grades at intersections. Driving an '86 4wd Civic wagon, I never had a problem (and, in fact, stopped several times to help push stranded 2wd drive vehicles).

2) How important it is depends on your needs. There's more of a call for it in WV than LI.

3) It would be a benefit in both situations, albeit more in the latter than the former.

4) Not at all - Hyundai now makes a pretty good product. You might buy precisely because Hyundai offers more product content at a lower price.

jipster

Get yourself a good set of snow tires and you won't have to worry about all the AWD/4WD stuff.

geeth

I'm confused which one to buy. While Volvo offers otpional third row, LX doesn't hv this option. While all other features are pretty much same, finally it boils down to resale value and maintenance cost. Can somebody help me out with these two questions. Is maintaining Lexus more expensive than Volvo, and does Volvo depreciate more than Lexus. Any pointers is appreciated.

thx

stickguy

normally, the VOlvo will depreciate more than the Lexus. But, Volvo will probably have better lease deals, if you are going that way.

First decide which one you like, since they are a bit different in feel and driving experience. I had a chance to drive a new 3.2 XC90, and loved it. So much nicer than the old 2.5T

I don't remember if VOlvo still has free maintenance, but for the first few years, very little is required on either car, and they are under warranty for 4 years.

So, are you planning to buy and keep for 10 years, or lease, or buy/sell in 3-4 years?

IN any case, in this class, I would buy what you like and enjoy and works best for your needs. Both are very nice vehicles.

cccompson

Based on your parameters (maintenance and depreciation), the Lexus is the clear choice.

klanger83

Here is my situation:

I drive 20k miles / year (work), I have chrysler employee discount, and I want to drive a car and pay less than $8,000 over three years for driving the car.

Whether it's leasing, and my total payments are less than $8k, buying used or new, and being able to sell at less than an $8,000 difference between price I paid and price I was able to sell.

My question is (and please let me know if there's a better forum to post this in where it may get more visibility):

Even with a Chrysler employee discount available, and considering I will be putting 20k miles/year on the car, is buying new or leasing still out of reach to stay within my range?

AND if I do buy used, what model year should I be looking at NOW to take advantage of the least amount of depreciation I will experience over a 3 year time frame while still getting into a car that's new enough and has low enough miles to be dependable so I don't break down on my long drive to work?

The two cars that will suit my needs are Grand Cherokees and Durangos. And I would like them whether or not I had the chrysler discount anyway. (I also may be interested in a trailblazer and envoy if their resale value was that drastically different from the GC and Durango, but from what I've read so far, they aren't...)

If going the used route, I was thinking about getting an '04 with less than 40k miles, and then when it comes time to sell, I would be selling a 6 year old car with 100k miles. If I can buy it for $16k and sell it for $8k, then perfect. But I am not sure if I am going to be better off at this point with an '05, '04, or '03 as far as balancing both depreciation and reliability.

But the thought of having a new car is also appealing for obvious reasons... and with having the employee discount, I would have already made up my mind to do a lease because whatever method I choose, I will probably continue to just do over and over again every three years... BUT with 20k miles / year, I am not sure if it would still make sense financially.

Thanks for your thoughts!

-klanger

cccompson

I don't believe you can buy or lease new and meet your goals, at least not with a Chrysler product, as the depreciation curve is too steep.

Going used (using your example) a presents serious problem because 100K on a Chrysler will kill the value.

Two other thoughts come to mind although I'm not sure either would attain your goal either: a buy slightly used Chrysler ('05 or '06 with low mileage - less than 20K) or something slightly older that higher mileage won't hurt so much down the road, say an '03 Honda Pilot.

One way for sure to meet your target would be something that is not so pricey new.

klanger83

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any suggestions? Trying to stick with a midsize suv.

cccompson

Not really - the parameters you've set are just...tough.

My inclination would be to get something older that already has a lot of highway miles on it. It would cost less to start with and the additional miles won't hurt it as badly they would on something newer.

There's no getting around it - miles cost money.

british_rover

Once I get to work tomorow I might have some ideas for you...

klanger83

I hear you. I am trying to stick with $8k over three years, and realize that's best case scenario.

My hesitation with getting something with more miles is because...

a) more likely to encounter mechanical problems, which would be especially detrimental because my job is so important to me and a way to get to work must be guaranteed. I have no easy way out if I break down. It's right to the shop and I am paying for a rental if that happens.

b) since I will put so many miles on it myself, I am thinking I have a much better chance at buying a car with 30k miles and selling it with 90k miles for a decent price compared to buying a car with 80k miles and selling it with 140k miles.

And even if I did save money, would the "risk" by getting into a higher milage car to start out with be worth it?

All these types of things I am taking into consideration.

Rover, looking forward to your suggestions.

jlawrence01

Pay 30k for a Jeep Grand cherokee new and you'll be lucky to get 15k after three years. I don't have my black book with me but from my experience in my fleet.

british_rover

Well I played around with some of my leasing calculators and what you want just is not possible.

You are going to have to change vehicles and or increase your total budget above 8,000 dollars.

FInding the right high mileage lease is probably your best bet but you have to find a car with a highly subsidized lease and I am not sure if any chrysler products are going to cut it.

Also if you are going to lease and do 20,000 miles a year then you should only do a 30 month lease and pick a car with a 50,000 mile warranty. That way you stay in warranty the whole time.

Maybe a VW would work? They have 50,000 miles warranties, are relatively in expensive and sometimes have killer lease deals. Get a wagon model Jetta and they can carry a fair amount of stuff as well as long as you don't need to tow.

Either way 8,000 dollar is not realistic. You will probably have to bump that up to 10,000 dollars or so.

qbrozen

used chrysler trucks are cheap, cheap, cheap.

If you need 60k miles out of a vehicle, you could buy a Durango with less than 80k and do very little to it over the next 3 years.

I just did a quick search and found a plethora of Durangos with less than 60k miles (some FAR less) for under $12k.

I'm confident you could sell a Durango with 120k miles for $4k.

1racefan

"If you need 60k miles out of a vehicle, you could buy a Durango with less than 80k and do very little to it over the next 3 years."

Are you that confident in the Dodge tranny? Especially for a high mileage vehicle to begin with?

qbrozen

in their trucks? yes.

maybe i'm not up to snuff on the complaints, but we've had a few Dodges in the family that ran for a long time. I think the last was an '01 that has 180k and is still being used as a plow truck at my father's shop.

british_rover

Yeah that is not a bad idea actually.

Find something with mid to high miles that hasn't been beat on as a tow vehicle. Maybe a private party sale where you have the service records.

Should be able to get up to 120k-150k no problem.

cccompson

Well, any car can leave you stranded. I bought a new Town and Country in '96 and one day the damned thing just stalled going down the road - had to have it towed to the dealer for warranty repairs.

The real risk of any higher mileage vehicle (as alluded to above) is a catastrophic engine or transmission failure that costs a lot to fix. And it is a very real risk.
One way to minimize it is to pick something that has spent its time on the highway rolling up the easiest miles there are.

In addition, with such a unit most anything that typically goes wrong with whatever model you're considering will already have been repaired or replaced.

As BR said, buy from an original owner who has the complete service history.

oregonboy

All this concern about depreciation cost and no mention of operating cost. This is 20k miles per year in a mid-sized SUV that we are talking about. Durangos and Tahoes, sheesh.

In 3 years at 20k per you've gone 60k. You're talking about vehicles in the 14-18 mpg range. Gas prices over the next 3 years will surely average over $3 per gallon (yes. that's a whole different discussion).

If you bump your mileage up into the 28-30 mpg range (think mid to small wagon or crossover) you could save about $5,000 in fuel cost over 3 years.

james

jlawrence01

You are making an assumption that a smaller vehicle will meet the requirements of the original poster. Good gas mileage is irrelevant of the vehicle cannot meet the needs of the driver.

asafonov

What about a Honda CR-V? Not that much smaller inside than the midsize SUVs (but cannot tow much). Better fuel economy, known reliability. Most important - excellent resale, especially with a private party sale. It may be possible to buy a new CR-V for 22k and sell it at 3 year/60k for 12-14k, no?

qbrozen

it would be close, I think. I think off-lease CRVs with 45k and less will be around $15k retail (roughly estimating the 56% lease residual plus $3k markup). $12k may be closer than $14k, which means it would cost the buyer $10k PLUS taxes and interest.

The problem is ... how exactly do you calculate $8k over the 3 years? Does the original poster want to ONLY spend $8k out of pocket ... or is it ok to spend more during the course of the 3 years, as long as it works out to $8k in the end? Meaning, buying a new CRV will cost you more than $8k in payments over 3 years, but some will be recouped at sale time.

And this doesn't just apply to the CRV suggestion, obviously. This is an issue that will come into play for most choices ... other than a lease.

1racefan

"The two cars that will suit my needs are Grand Cherokees and Durangos"

Could you expand on what exactly your needs are that have made you come to the above conclusion? Do you do a lot of towing, or do you think you need an SUV because you will be hauling people around frequently? This may help the "experts" better help you.

One thing that popped into my mind is a middle of the road 1 or 2 year old Dodge Caravan. Plenty of interior space, and you could take advantage of the deprectiation these vehicles typically face in the first couple of years by purchasing one used. Not to mention, better gas mileage than an SUV. I would think you could get in one for $14 - $15, but I'm not positive.

oregonboy

My point was mileage more than size. I did say small to MID sized wagon or CROSSOVER. We don't really know what the original poster's needs are. I made no assumptions, only an observation and some alternatives.

Thank you so much for your opinion on the relevance of my posting. :shades:

james

klanger83

Thanks for all the replies.

I am basically the type of person an SUV was made for. Need the room for moving things, hockey equipment, people. Travel often on dirt roads and somewhat off the beaten path (nothing too extreme, but nothing I'd take a sedan into)... I tow... all of that.

Reason I chose those two models is because I feel they are esthetically pleasing... and I am not sure if it has anything to do with the employee discount, but I have always preferred chrysler products at least style wise.