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Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

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Comments

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    some people are willing to pay that premium for having more money available on a monthly basis

    I'd venture to say that most consumers who fall into the payment trap don't understand the premium, which is where the problem lies.

    For example, if the same consumer had obtained the 60 month loan at the lower rate (I'll presume for the sake of the example that the lower rate is the market rate that was available to this buyer), the payment would have been even lower ($309 vs. $324 per month, a savings of more than $900 over the term of the loan.)

    The typical consumer would miss this by focusing on the difference between the initially quoted payment and the second offer, instead of understanding that even better terms were available. It's a very common tactic that buyers need to be aware of.
  • jonbanksjonbanks Member Posts: 15
    i have a 2004 chevy tahoe that was wrecked i bought it back in january and barely got it a month ago , it took along time to find the parts and the shop told me that it would take 6-8 weeks and it ended up taking 12 but i have advertised it in my local paper a week ago and i put " salvage title" and have not gotten even 1 response, that's right not 1 ! i dont want to take out the salvage because im a very honest person and dont want to waste my time with non-serious buyers. im considering selling it at a local auction where i beleive it will fetch 10% lower than the blue book in fair condition, but there is no guarantee and there is a $250 fee + 5 % and you can only run it 3 times. i have the vehicle priced at $15,900 its the lt,leather,95k miles,onstar,3rd row,z71. has a tear in the cloth on the roof,missing a runnin brd, and has the service engine light on other than that it is in great condition , i just had it fully detailed inside and out, what should i do , pay more on regular advertising like autotrader and edmunds and keep running it in the paper. Run it throught the auction. Try ebay? i need some advice please all advice is welcome
  • sc00bssc00bs Member Posts: 87
    Im not taking everything I read in any guide as gospel, trust me (read my other post, I most certainly did not make my experience as clear as it really was in the first post and I apologize for that). The cars I am looking at are not selling quickly, and are priced lower at other dealerships that are within a 50 mile radius (I would honestly like to keep my business local but apparently that just is not going to happen). They are most certainly NOT high demand cars.

    I walked out without buying an overpriced car. I don't think that was stupid at all. The cars are not getting snapped up. Dealerships are having a hard time getting rid of them!!!!!
  • sc00bssc00bs Member Posts: 87
    First of all thanks for your detailed response. I will have to reread the purchasing strategies again and see what other information I can find. This is somewhat of a vent so sorry for the long post. I am just frustrated with this entire process.

    I didn't make my post very clear because I never even mention Edmunds until I am sick of the salesmen keeping me for long periods of time and shoving their KBB crud down my throat. Seriously. I do not wave KBB around or even get print outs from Cars.com. THEY are doing this junk, at which point I try to play their stupid games but it gets old and I then point out KBB says suggested retail price and cars.com is asking prices (maybe I didn't make that clear in my post)and they just stare at me.

    In fact I often tell them what I would pay for the car, several times. To which they continue to wave their stupid KBB print outs in my face. They also proceed to spew out the biggest lines of BS I have ever heard. This car is rare (really then why are there hundreds within a 50 mile radius). This car was really well taken care of (really then why do you not have any service records on it). That little flaw can be taken care of (well why didn't your shop or detail outfit take care of it in the first place).

    Here is what I do exactly step by step. Drive onto the lot, knowing what car I want (I usually have at least 3 in mind). When I get approached by a sales person I NEVER try to hide from them, or give them some line of crap. In fact I openly greet them and shake their hand, tell them my name and specifically what I am looking for. I am a no nonsense kind of buyer. I know what I want and what I want to pay but apparently the sales people are so used to dealing with other people who are not this way I have to go through this entire process of games or they get flustered by me just being honest and straight forward with them..

    9 times out of 10 they have no clue whats on the lot, they take me through a list of junk I don't want, how about a blah blah with 120,000 miles on it, etc. If they do have something I am looking for, I will then procceed with them to the car in question. I will then make small talk to them. When they ask (they always do) will you be trading something in? I always say, Not sure (because im not). Will you be financing? Reply is not
    sure (which isn't lying either, if the price is in a certain range I would pay cash and if its over that range I would finance a portion of the purchase, but frankly its not any of their stinking business at this point. Not to mention I already have financing arranged through the bank).

    Then I examine the car inside and out. Pop the hood and ask specific questions (to which the car salespeople are about 95% clueless to anything on the cars, which to me becomes really annoying. Some cars have things like ABS standard and others they are optional. To me a good car salesmen should know at least a little about the car, but most do not. They concentrate on stupid features like the little knob that makes the radio change stations. Who cares. Does this have ABS... don't know im not familiar with that car.. over and over again). How about traction control.. don't know.

    I ask about taking the car for a test drive. We do the typical garbage of waiting for the plate and keys to come out. We then take off. The salesperson constantly is talking to me, which is another annoying thing (I never say much, but concentrate on driving the car and listening to it). They even go as far as to play with the radio. I know what they are doing, but I turn the radio off several times. One guy was insistant that I roll up the windows and turn on the AC because it was hot out and he didn't want to sweat. Im sorry but I need to hear the engine and car running, not the air conditioner blasting in my face. The AC is something that will come in a few minutes.

    Then we go to the table. The dealerships start in with this junk about KBB and how its a good price and that they are selling the car under that. I make an offer, OTD. They continue to wave these stupid KBB print outs in my face. If I bring up another dealership its like I have cheated on them or something, if I actually have names and numbers they really get flightly. They proceed to put down the other lots and dealerships telling me all the tricks they play (like they don't do the same things??).

    After an hour of having KBB waved in my face and Cars.com listings for a very small area of dealerships I just finally said the Edmunds word and they just freeze. Literally and give each other these looks like someone just told them they have cancer or something (and maybe Edmunds is like having cancer to them, lol).

    It seems to be the way the dealerships do business around here, because EVERY SINGLE ONE has done the same thing. Im sick of it. Here I am a person with MONEY in their hands waiting to give it to some dealership and they continue to play games and treat me like im an idiot. Lying to me and playing stupid games. With the exception of ONE car the cars that I have looked at and made offers on are still sitting on the lots (and have been for a couple of months). They are not what I would call high demand cars either.

    It also doesn't help that Im a woman and im sure they think they can pull one over on me. Then after hours of making themselves look stupid by lying and playing stupid games they have to keep their male egos looking good (sorry guys but its true). They couldn't actually admit that the price I offered to pay would still make the dealership money, the salesmen a decent profit, and get me into a car at a reasonable price. Not only that but if they would stop screwing around they would also realize that my word of mouth (and I have a big one) could bring them not only more business but also my business in repairs.

    The only lot I was not treated like an idiot was one in which I was doing business with a WOMAN salesperson. Unfortunately they didn't have a car I was looking for, but she was pleasant and said she would keep my name and number and call when they got something in. Truely a low pressure sales situation. I also have called her a few times to check in and see what they have. The other lot also had low pressure sales and I was able to talk to the person for a while about different cars they had and their asking prices. Both were GM lots.

    Today was the last straw. Pulled into the lot. Didn't even get two feet in and the salesman was already standing by our car. We drove down the used car section and he followed the car all the way through. I rolled down the window and asked if they had x,y or z cars. He pointed to the back of the lot and we said ok, we would meet him back there. He then insisted that we get out and walk back there. We refused and just drove back. I got out and looked at the car.

    I asked him a simple question. Whats the pri
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,550
    that post was so long, your need to put another dime in the meter!

    I'm trying to formulate some kind of cohesive response to the last bunch of posts, but I don't know where to start!

    Anyway, to sc00bs, it sounds like you let yourself get pulled into their "routine", or how they like to do business, which is designed to get you to eventually pay more then you intend to. Either that, or they are really bored and like your company.

    So, it sounds like you have the right idea, which is figure out what a car is worth (to you) and make the offer. The problem is, you then get into a protracted debate with them.

    Make it simple, and be more Bobst like. Make a firm, clear offer (OTD), and write it down, and be clear that you will take it on the spot if they accept. Then, head out the door. They can either take the deal to keep you from going, call later to take it, or never get back to you, which is a clear sign that it wasn't a high enough offer.

    Remember, a car "costs" what a dealer will sell it for, and is "worth" what a buyer will pay.

    I personally found used car shopping at a ealer to be 10x worse than new car shopping. At least all the new ones are the same (that is, one civic LX is pretty much the same as another), but every used car is unique.

    If you have a trade, then any comparison of a deal (getting back to the question about being happy, even if you "paid too much"). I also firmly believe that each deal is different, although 2 buyers in the same time frame should logically be in the same price ballpark.

    That, and asking the internet at large if you got a good deal after the fact is never likely to make you happy!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • nordonordo Member Posts: 12
    Miss a day, miss a lot.

    I have been lumped into the category of being sarcastic. Fine, I can live with that. I was sarcastic in response to Socal. He started it with the Budweiser comment. Seems some missed that. I am new to this thread.

    Socal has a small set of guidelines that he seems to go by and is not willing to get out side of them. If I named them off I am sure I would be labeled something else. If you read his reply to my sarcasm, you will see he has no clue how to deal with a car salesman in my case. It doesn’t Fit in his box, of find what is acceptable to you on the lot and haggle.

    He even straight up admitted he had no clue about the Honda Fit. He showed Zero interest in getting outside his box. I didn’t have the option of settling for something on the lot. I was not going to settle at all, I knew what I wanted and was willing to get it.
    Did I pay to much? The market decides that I think. Find me someone in the Fit Threads that has paid less then MSRP for their Fit. There will be more who paid the dreaded Additional Deal Profit or Mark-up or whatever it is called. I got a good deal on the exact accessories I wanted (below MSRP for all). I settled for nothing. This doesn’t compute in his box.

    Jipster,
    At least when I made my stab at sarcasm I let everyone know it was coming.

    Read post 166 by me again and tell me there is not a plan of action to get a good deal.
    You said no one else is posting helpful things.

    Then read post 167 by Socal. On every one of the points he commented on, they didn’t apply.
    My being to specific meant I was going to pay more? So I should have just settled for something I didn’t really won’t. Then at least I could go on the Internet and tell all my friends I got a great deal on a car I pretty much like that has most all the options I wanted. Sorry about the sarcasm.

    “Being direct isn’t always a good move” I can’t even believe that came out of his fingers.

    “I'd say that articulating that you have very specific wants typically results in higher prices,”
    It also seems to get you what you want.

    You wrote: “It seems to me that since you cannot match socal4 in a mature discussion, you have to resort to making personal and immature comments.”
    I am hoping this wasn’t pointed at me. Socal has made comments to me with little or no information from inside his box. He admitted to not knowing about the Fit. Again, a very specific thing, that is how I roll, very specifically.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You're welcome, and I feel for your situation. The salespeople like to blame the customer (or claim that you must live in Southern California, supposedly the only place in America where you'll find a bad dealer), but I'm sure that many customers will relate to aspects of your story, no matter who they are or where they live.

    Again, I'd encourage you to reread some of the Purchasing Strategies thread. I think one problem specific to you is that you are dealing with a lot of noxious faux-machismo because you are a female, and the Ol' Boys Club thinks that it can get away with it. And while it may sound difficult, I would suggest that you try to take this apparent disadvantage, and try to turn it into an advantage.

    I don't know you or your specific situation, but I would develop a plan that allows you to gain the salespeoples' time investment while playing up aspects of your gender status. I'd avoid the KBB vs. Edmunds contest (just play dumb and pretend that you're just a girl who can't understand that manly Kelley Blue Book stuff, and leave it at that -- it's tough to argue with someone who just doesn't know what you're saying...), and simply focus on your price and your ability to buy that day. Depending upon your personality, find some way to play up your gender so that they make the wrong assumptions, overreach, and leave themselves exposed.

    Just as the dealer uses a good cop-bad cop approach (the turnover from the salesperson to sales manager and F&I person), you might want to as well, with you playing the good cop and someone else playing bad cop...even if it is a husband/ boyfriend/ pretend boyfriend on the other end of your cell phone. Make this guy a decision maker who won't let you do the deal, even though you might have otherwise been persuaded. (I believe that Jipster or Golic described their use of this tactic on the Purchasing Strategies thread, and used it to good effect.)

    You can try the Bobst take-it-or-leave-it method, but I suspect that in addition to its disadvantages of making the first offer, you will particularly have problems with it because these dealers aren't taking you seriously. You might want also to revisit your approach to figure out whether there is a reason (not necessarily a nice reason, but a reason to makes sense to car salesmen) why you're being treated this way, and possibly adjusting your behavior, manner of dress, etc. in order to get the effect that you want.

    In any case, don't view these things as insurmountable barriers. And by all means, don't let them offend you. If there's one thing that I've hoped that I've made clear, it's that I don't spend much time worrying about what car dealers think of me...

    Good luck with your shopping.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Ouch. You sound eager to justify your deal, rather than trying to get objective information about what you did.

    Bottom line:

    - A few cars are highly popular, which give you little wiggle room, but most are not. Perhaps the Fit is in that category, but I would research it before presuming that it is, rather than just assuming it because it is new. I didn't research it for you, I left that aspect of the discussion to you, so I don't know whether or not it is a hot car or not. (It wouldn't surprise me if it was, but again, I didn't research it.)

    - If you have very specific wants and make them known, chances are good that you will overpay because the seller knows that your priorities are on product details, not price. That might be an efficient way to get your specific option packages, but that is a poor way to get the lowest price, assuming that there is wiggle room with the price. (And being that it is a Honda, I would think that your option package choices are relatively few.)

    Incidentally, I have always bought my cars with exactly the options and color that I wanted...but the dealer never knew that. I can recognize what I'm looking for without alerting the dealer to the fact that I've hit paydirt. A decoy strategy (such as finding flaws in something that is suitable to my needs, in order to make the deal seem less than optimal for my side of the table) can be useful in these situations.

    It is quite easy to spend money -- we do it everyday -- but it is harder to get an optimal deal, and turning extremely specific needs into a priority is not going to typically lead to the best price. Maybe others can benefit from the lessons of your experience, even if you are reluctant to.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Yeah... when the specific vehicle you want is not on the lot you have little choice in not being direct with the dealer. With the Honda Fit being a "hot" vehicle, you probably played it about as well as it could be played. But, for the average selling vehicle, socala4 suggestions still hold true.
    How much under MSRP did you get your Fit for?

    We all probably got our feathers a little bit ruffled the other day. But, I have no ill will towards anyone. Enjoy the day everyone. :shades:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Have you considered asking a friend or neighbor for a referral? I think you are running into the typical car dealerships that turn their help over every six months.

    You are dealing with inexperienced "liners" whose only job is to land you on a car. A used car that they probably know nothing about.

    Or, you might want to consider looking in the ads and buying from a private party. There are pitfalls there too. A lot of curbstoners and people who will lie about the condition of their cars.

    I do wish you well.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    ust for example people rarely come into this store talking about invoice.

    Why is that? Lower volume doesn't allow for sales close to invoice on high line?


    Exactly right. When you only sell 12-15 new cars a month on average you can't be selling any of them near invoice. Remember the goal of most new car operations is just to break even. Most of the money is made on the parts/service side and a little is made on the used car side.

    It also comes down to supply and demand. Just for example for the entire US last LRNA only sold 13,546 Range Rovers.

    There were 174 Land Rover Retailers in opperation last year. That equals out to about 78 Range Rovers sold per retailer for last year. The majority of Rover dealers are in that 12-25 car a month size so they are not selling 78 Range Rovers a year. There are five or six really large Rover dealers selling 50 or more Range Rovers a month but the majority of dealers are only selling two or three a month and some of the medium sized ones are selling seven to eight a month.

    There is a lot of demand for these cars, there are little to no incentives and there is a very small supply. Most people understand that means no at invoice sales.

    I will get someone in every once in a while who just assumes because we only sell SUVs and because of what the rest of ths SUV market is doing that we will sell vehicles for 10,000 dollars off. The association with Ford does not help matters. They are in for a very rude awakening when depending on the vehicle the most we will offer off is 1,500 dollars.

    The LR3 is the only vehicle that we have enough of to actually satisfy demand. It is also in the most competive market segment, Mid-sized luxury SUVs, so those vehicles can be had at a relative discount compared to the other two rover models.

    I will respond to the other parts later I need to finish up some stuff on my desk.
  • mleanhmleanh Member Posts: 17
    I would be interested in picking the brains of both the sales professionals and saavy buyers- BUT, in each other's shoes.

    car sales professionals- assume you are the consumer ready to buy the car. I'm sure over time as a salesperson, you have heard about or seen just about every approach, tactic, strategy from the selling side. If you were a buyer, what tactics would be unacceptable to you, and how would you go about neutralizing them? What tips would you share to get a great buying deal?

    On the flip side, what tactics are there that you feel consumers give you a raw deal over, and why? For example, if there is a particularly unpopular tactic with buyers, but it is usually out of your hands- it's a management call, etc., then open up about it. The more insight you can provide, the more buyers can understand and empathize with your side.

    Buyers- if you were on the other side in sales, what kind of approach/tactics would you not want to see from a car shopper? What kind of buyer strategies do you think are fair, but not well-received by the sales side?

    To keep this from deteriorating into a mud-slinging free- for-all though, can we agree to keep this informational/factual?

    No judgments, insults, generalizations about salespeople, buyers, questioning people's intelligence, sanity, etc. The goal is to educate and benefit each side.

    I would hope that for others like me, we just want to know as much about the WHOLE story as possible. I think we can all agree that like almost any other business, the car sales business has honest sellers and dishonest sellers, well-informed, reasonable buyers and the opposite.

    Once again, if you read something and you want to start with the insults, etc., please refrain. You're certainly entitled to your feelings and opinions.

    But for those who really want to get some good information, sometimes we feel like these discussions always inevitably spiral downward into less information and more personal attacks.

    Thanks in advance, sorry for the long post. Looking forward to some great buying tips!
  • prosaprosa Member Posts: 280
    Just for example for the entire US last LRNA only sold 13,546 Range Rovers.

    95% of which can be seen heading westbound on the Long Island Expressway on any summer Sunday evening :P
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "Here I am a person with MONEY in their hands waiting to give it to some dealership"

    Maybe your problem is that you are not giving them enough money.

    When we offer enough money, they accept and we buy the car. It's that simple.
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  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    One thing that I had intended to ask -- have you considered buying from a private party? That might solve some of your problems, while getting you a better price.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    if you were on the other side in sales, what kind of approach/tactics would you not want to see from a car shopper? What kind of buyer strategies do you think are fair, but not well-received by the sales side?

    Honestly, I don't worry about what should be, but what is, and "fairness" has nothing to do with it.

    It comes down to this: The car sales business employs certain methods, and operates within certain parameters, none of which are within my control. The smart thing for a buyer to do is to learn the system and make it work to his or her advantage.

    I don't want to change the world, I just want to buy a car on occasion. The most unhappy buyers seem to be those who refuse to accept the gamesmanship that goes hand-in-hand with the process, when they could spare themselves some grief and save money just by accepting it as is and dealing with it. Approach it as a sport that you can win, but for which you didn't write the rulebook.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    If I were a salesman, I would like to have buyers who did not lie to me or try to deceive me. I think that would be enough.
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    If I were a salesman, I would like to have buyers who did not lie to me or try to deceive me. I think that would be enough.

    Same here, though I do not understand the difference between lies and deceit.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    In my opinion a lie is flat out telling a falsehood while deciet would be leaving out critical information.
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    You did not answer her question.

    As a salesperson, when I am the consumer, I hate the bad cop good cop game. I see through it in about 2 seconds. I usually ask the big meanie if he/she is having a bad day! Ha Ha!

    Also, when I buy cars I either ask for the salesperson who has been their the longest or the salesmanager. OVER the Phone I tell them what I am willing to pay, that I am serious and ready to buy, fax a credit app, and usually When I get there, all I have to do is pick up the car. If the numbers change at all I walk. Pretty simple.
  • mleanhmleanh Member Posts: 17
    I think you make a good point about asking for the salesperson with the longest tenure. When I have dealt with a senior staff member, the buying experience has been overall positive. I did not always get the lowest price, but it was straightforward at least.
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    SHHH Don't let Socal hear that!!! ;)

    I answer the phone here alot and many customers will ask for specific type of salespeople. I like to ask for a senior salesperson for the sake of time, they do not lollygag. If the longest person has been there one month. STAY AWAY, means there is alot of turnover for some unsavory reason or another.
  • mleanhmleanh Member Posts: 17
    heheh. sorry to spill the beans...

    how much more authority does a senior salesperson have to negotiate back and forth vs. a relative newbie?

    i ask because sometimes it seems that when you make an offer, some salespeople have to always run back to the manager and ask, no matter what the offer.

    with other (i'm guessing senior) salespeople, they will say yes or no right away, and start countering with numbers without asking for approval from anyone. the titles on the business cards are the same, no management title.

    is there a sliding scale of leeway/authority for dealing on their own that salespeople earn over time and based on sales?
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You did not answer her question.

    Ah, but I did.

    I expect car salespeople to behave like car salespeople. A smart buyer will do the same, rather than hope for the impossible. Dreaming about a world where car salespeople behave differently doesn't help to get the best deal.

    I keep citing the Serenity Prayer, because it's a good maxim for living: You need the strength to change what you can, the willingingness to recognize what you can't change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

    I say, be wise and recognize that the current system is the way it is because it generally works in the dealership's interest, and you'll save money by recognizing its weaknesses and playing on them. Just as the sun is going to rise in the east, car salespeople are going to try get you to pay more than you need to, and they aren't going to change their ways just for me.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    i ask because sometimes it seems that when you make an offer, some salespeople have to always run back to the manager and ask, no matter what the offer.

    That's a tactic common to negotiation -- the lower-echelon person lacks the authority to make a final decision. That's a good setup for a good cop-bad cop play, in which the sales manager can play the bad cop/ voice of reason who explains why you need to pay more or why the price can't be reduced.

    Car sales are generally built on the turnover method:

    -The salesperson is supposed to size you up, find your hot buttons, get you to fall in love with the product and wear you down a bit, hopefully to obtain a relatively high price

    -There is then a "turnover" to the sales manager that is meant to defend the price and/or (more likely) offer justifications for increasing it, while wearing you down further still until the initial close.

    -And then, when you think you're finished, F&I will try to layer on more stuff and otherwise increase the value of the sale. (Upselling is an another integral component of car sales.)

    Unless the dealership is small, a sales effort involving 2-3 people is the norm. They are deliberately tag teaming you because it helps them to make more money (although this can be turned around to your advantage if you work it properly.) Your real haggle occurs with the sales manager, not the salesperson, particularly if you are paying a low price.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    I don't care if the sales person is experienced or not. I can't see how it matters. The sales manager makes the decisions.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    We do not do that.

    I can take a person from the initial greeting pretty much all the way to delivery with no outside influence.

    So many of our deals are cash deals that we don't even need a F&I manager. In fact our F&I guy is so bored he just asked to be transfered to another store.

    I have already made the proposal that we the sales guides should handle all of the F&I stuff since there is so little of it anyway. This will simplfy the process even more since we will be able to handle almost all decsions. There is of course going to be a breaking point where I would have to ask for direction on if a certain number is doable or not. Those numbers can be set on a per car basis fairly easily since we only have three models.

    No discounts on Range Sports cause there are none.

    No discounts on any supercharged Range Rovers cause there are less then none.

    Very limited discounts on Full sized Range Rovers cause they are almost none.

    Variable discounts on LR3s.

    Many a time I have met a customer on the lot or on the phone greeted them at the store walked and walked them through the car.

    Afterwards sat them down haggled on the price a bit agreed to a price and then just introduced them to our centre manager so that they could have a buyers order printed and signed.

    If I need to get up and bounce a number off a person I only do it once get the bit of extra info or advice I need then return and either close the deal or send the client on his way if we cannot come to an agreemant.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You work at a low volume dealership with minimal staffing, so it's not surprising that things are different at your store.

    For the average dealer of domestics, Asian cars and the major European makes, the "turnover" method is pretty typical, as I'm sure you know. In your store's case, you'd have too much excess payroll to make it cost-effective for your dealership.
  • billingsleybillingsley Member Posts: 69
    To me it's funny- Remember when Saturn first started? Their sales tactic was to eliminate the "game playing." They still do it, but I've read articles that a lot of buyers don't like this method. So many seem to like the method of trying to get the most out of a dealership.
    I've bought 2 Chevy's from a local So Cal dealership and I went to fleet. I got the vehicles $300 over invoice. No hassle. He shows me the invoice, I get whatever rebates are coming my way, and we're done.
    There also has to be a certain amount of trust between a sales person and a potential buyer.
    ;)
  • nordonordo Member Posts: 12
    Jipster,

    I saved $920 when comparing what I got verses MSPR for the deal.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Actually according to Land Rover's own Retail philosophy that is how you are supposed to do business.

    Most of the larger Rover dealers do it this way as well.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    On what is a 17,000 dollar car I bet that is right at invoice plus a hundred bucks or something.

    You did good.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Remember when Saturn first started? Their sales tactic was to eliminate the "game playing." They still do it, but I've read articles that a lot of buyers don't like this method. So many seem to like the method of trying to get the most out of a dealership.

    That's because consumers sense that they will get a better deal by negotiating.

    And they are right...if they know what they are doing. Someone who is a poor negotiator (doesn't know how the game works and doesn't research pricing) could very well haggle a bad deal, falsely believing that s/he did well just because s/he had to sweat to get it.

    Good negotiation isn't about making it a slugfest, but about understanding how the other side works, learning what motivates the opposing party and knowing everything you can about their costs. You need to work smart, not hard.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    When the sticker price is never the real price, and everyone never pays the same as someone else, car buying is really a pig in a poke.
    I doubt anyone really knows how much the dealer really pays, do they? I can't tell you how many times I have heard "this is below our cost". Or even "we are loosing money on this deal"
    I personally always ask for the sales manager. Then I tell him exactally what I want, and say I want only one price and make it you best right of the bat. Then I have usually given someone brand new, and he sorta uses him to learn the job. I do allow for one more try ate the sales manager before I either say yes or walk. Twice when I walked they called back a day or so latter and we made a deal.
    I am not a pro and often I have wondered if I really got a good deal. I go looking on raining days, and at the end of the month. This is how for the last four trucks and Jeeps I bought, that I did it.
    Anyone got any better ideas? I have never ordered a vehicle, is this a better way to get one?

    Farout
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    usually you get the best deal when you can buy something off the dealer's lot.

    But depends on the car - some are made in such limited quantities that you have to order (Volvo C70 convertibl is in that situation right now; the new Pontiac G6 convertible, same thing).

    But for the typical car, if you can be happy with something the dealer already has, usually you can get a better price on that.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Bianca is right, dealerships tend to give price preference to moving their current inventory (the dealer stops accruing the "floor plan" financing charges when existing inventory is sold.) Ordering a car will generally cost you, as compared to buying one off the lot.

    If you are looking at a European car (the most likely types of cars to be special ordered, I would think), I'd also consider European delivery. It's not necessarily much cheaper than just haggling for the car at your local dealer, but if you view it as a free vacation tossed in for good measure, than it can become a better value. (Unfortunately, Audi doesn't offer European delivery, but many other European makes do.)
  • billingsleybillingsley Member Posts: 69
    When you order a vehicle, the dealer doesn't have to buy the vehicle, and have it sit on the lot, and theoretically, you should get a good deal because all the dealer becomes is an agent. The dealer doesn't make a lot of money on this deal.
  • jonbanksjonbanks Member Posts: 15
    i have a 2004 chevy tahoe that was wrecked i bought it back in january and barely got it a month ago , it took along time to find the parts and the shop told me that it would take 6-8 weeks and it ended up taking 12 but i have advertised it in my local paper a week ago and i put " salvage title" and have not gotten even 1 response, that's right not 1 ! i dont want to take out the salvage because im a very honest person and dont want to waste my time with non-serious buyers. im considering selling it at a local auction where i beleive it will fetch 10% lower than the blue book in fair condition, but there is no guarantee and there is a $250 fee + 5 % and you can only run it 3 times. i have the vehicle priced at $15,900 its the lt,leather,95k miles,onstar,3rd row,z71. has a tear in the cloth on the roof,missing a runnin brd, and has the service engine light on other than that it is in great condition , i just had it fully detailed inside and out, what should i do , pay more on regular advertising like autotrader and edmunds and keep running it in the paper. Run it throught the auction. Try ebay? i need some advice please all advice is welcome
    i actually purchase this from an insurance company however all of the repairs were made by a good shop and it looks and drives new the the lights are stuck because i guess dat it stays on , i had 2 reset the oil change , brand ne w tune up for the service engine, and it has coolant has absolutely no mechanical or body/frame problems i would actually encourage potential buyers to have it checked by a mechanic/frame shop,. now lets talk prices,
    the vehicle cost me $9,400 from the insurance company
    $1000 in parts/windows
    $656 for registration/inspection/plates
    $3800 for bodywork/labor/paint
    total cost was just about $14,900 and about 6 months of wait time , how do i turn this around into a small profit .instaed of the worst investment of the year award, i might have made the car sound way worst then it was in the last post. keep in mind that it is the z71,auto ride ,leather ,4x4, 5.3 flex, 3 rows , onstar, lt, 95k,tow package oh and i forgot about the sunroof, heated/memory seat, 2004 in year.
    if i did my home work right it should be booking private party in fair condition for about 18k-19k

    im not trying to force it but i just dont want to loose 3-4k and 6 months of waste
  • kapbotkapbot Member Posts: 113
    Whoops
    I have been a big time lurker in various forums here, and after reading alot of discussions about getting the best price on a new car, I have to add my two cents. In early November 1996, I leased my first new car, a 2007 Dodge Dakota. It was a SLT+ V6 with power everything, LSD, Auto Etc. for $300 a month. Most of my friends told me I was overpaying, but not one of them was leasing the same vehicle. How could they know? They couldn't, because none of them went to a dealership, with the checkbook, willing to lease the exact same vehicle. I moved to the Denver area a couple years later, and decided to trade for a newer truck, but I wanted to buy instead of lease. I paid way too much and ended up with a truck I didn't really want. Why I did this is a subject for a different discussion, but it is what happened. About 2 years later, I moved back to K.C. I decided to get another truck that I really wanted, and found that it would have to be special ordered. I built the truck on the Dodge website and requested quotes. I had many replys, but all of them were generic attempts to get me to buy whatever they happened to have on the lot. One dealer offered to order the exact vehicle I wanted for invoice price. I contacted that salesman and quickly came to an agreement. The order was made and I still have that truck. I'm not convinced that I paid the absolute lowest price, but how do I know?? No one had the EXACT combo I wanted in stock. My point? socala4 and others may claim that he could have made a better deal, but in reality, who knows what the rock bottom price for a car is without actually being in my position with a blank check?? My whole point is that you can talk to me until you're blue in the face about the "best deal", but the only proof is comparing the exact sales price of two identical vehicles to two people who happened to purchase them from the same dealer at the same time, in the same city, with the same down payment, trade-in and attitude. Am I wrong?
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    My whole point is that you can talk to me until you're blue in the face about the "best deal", but the only proof is comparing the exact sales price of two identical vehicles to two people who happened to purchase them from the same dealer at the same time, in the same city, with the same down payment, trade-in and attitude.

    Am I wrong?


    You seem to be missing a few points here. A few things:

    -Car sales methods tend to be consistent throughout the industry. Some may use softer tactics than others, but generally, the methods and the goals are very similar from place to place. This makes it easy to prepare yourself for what to expect, because it's the same game from Seattle to Syracuse.

    -Car dealerships tend to use invoice prices as part of their methodology of how they derive an acceptable price. Therefore, it helps you to understand this.

    -Negotiation tactics are tried and true, and are consistent with human psychology and our cultural norms. Some tactics tend to work better than others, and the adjustments that you need to make for changing situations tend to be consistent.

    In other words, there is a lot of consistency out there, there is nothing new under the sun, so to speak. You need not reinvent the wheel to figure out how things work, many people before you have already figured it out. The trick for us is to learn from them, and apply it.

    The negotiation methods that I have shared throughout this website are not things that I made up out of the blue -- all of this stuff has been borrowed from others, including experts who have been doing it longer and better than I have. I have applied these myself, both in car sales and other business situations, and they generally work.

    Which goes back to invoices -- generally speaking, a good deal will be much closer to the invoice numbers than the sticker, no matter who you are, where you are or with whom you're dealing. There are some cars that are exceptions to the rule, but most cars follow the rule.

    It comes down to doing research, and then combining that knowledge with good negotiation methods in order to get to the best price. Optimally, you have both -- information is power, and executing the play is important -- and if you lack one, you will probably not do as well.

    If you use bad negotiation methods, the odds are very good that you will pay too much, just as you are likely to fail at football if you choose the wrong play at the wrong time from the playbook. If a particular negotiation method consistently delivers poor results, there's not much reason to assume that it will be better the next time that you try it.
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Did you buy it as an investment or to use? Forget trying to get whatever the book says, hit a few sites like Autotrader and Cars.com to see what the competition is selling for and look at the low end, not the high. IMO, you may have to take a hit and the truck's not going to increase in value over time.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I hate to be the person to tell you this.

    You are trying to sell a previously wrecked truck with a SALVAGE TITLE!

    It's missing a running board and the check engine light is on?

    Selling this isn't going to be easy for ANY price...sorry.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I'm not convinced that I paid the absolute lowest price, but how do I know??"

    You would know by doing your homework. Such as: checking web sites such as this for invoice price, and not taking the dealers word on what invoice price is. Checking the various prices paid forums to find the low range is which to target your pricing. Check incentives and rebates for the vehicle you are purchasing to make sure they are taken off your agreed upon price.

    You stated the dealer offered you invoice price and you quickly came to an agreement. Generally a dealership isn't going to offer you their "best" price right off the bat. Which leads me to believe you could have gotten the price lower by counter offering lower.

    I would suggest letting the dealer make several offers. Then counter slightly below the lowest reasonable price you think they will take. But, as you stated, every dealerships rock bottom price may be different depending on a multitude of circumstances. So, the best you can do is go for rock bottom at the particular dealership in which you intend to buy.

    You won't know for "sure" of hitting rock bottom, unless the dealership gives you total access to their records and you are wise to the industry. But, by following the guidlines outlined here and in some other discussions on negotiation strategy, you can certainly give "rock bottom" a good shot. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Personally, I think you did fine. You bought the truck at invoice price. *Possibly* you might have been able to negotiate a little lower, or maybe not, but the important thing, you got the car you liked AND you still have it! I'm guessing this was a few years ago that you bought it?

    It almost doesn't matter what a buyer pays when cars are traded in frequently; the depreciation is a killer no matter what the starting point. If you find a car you like and keep it for a long time, you are WAY ahead of the game.

    Of course the ideal is to get the lowest price on a car you like AND keep it for a long time, but of the two, the "holding period" is going to make more of a difference in your bank account than a few hundred dollars one way or the other on the purchase price.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Personally, I think you did fine. You bought the truck at invoice price.

    That would depend largely upon whether there were incentives or not at the time. Domestics often have significant incentives, both factory-to-customer and factory-to-dealer, that really impact this, much more so than in the case of most of the transplant and foreign cars. (These incentives are often significant, sometimes well over $1,000 per unit.)

    Also, sales at and past model-year-end can have additional incentives as manufacturers aggressively work to move out old "out of date" inventory in favor of the most recent model year.

    If there were no incentives, then yes, invoice is almost certainly a good price.
  • jonbanksjonbanks Member Posts: 15
    thanks for the advice what i will probably do then is ,find a buisness on a busy intersection ask to place my car on their lot, keep running it in the paper, and give it about a month to sell , if it doesnt , then that's when i will place it on ebay motors, what price do you think that i should start the auction? i was thinking $11,900 with NO RESERVE and then see how much of a loss i take or starting it off around 9,000 with a " very low reserve " in the title? what are your guys' opinions on that one?
  • dglozmandglozman Member Posts: 178
    Good luck to you on that. It will probably be a very tough sell.. Would you personally buy an SUV (now days) with salvage title, 95K miles with missing a running board and with the service engine light on for $11,900?... :confuse:
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    NO...I would not buy it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Is how someone can buy a car and then go home and agonize that just maybe they didn't pay the absolute lowest price!

    Why do this?

    Someone will ALWAYS rain on your parade and tell you you probably paid too much!

    Life is short...enjoy!
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