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Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

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Comments

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Is how someone can buy a car and then go home and agonize that just maybe they didn't pay the absolute lowest price!

    Why do you agonize that not everyone wants to pay more? This seems to bother you quite a bit.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't agonize over much of anything these days.

    I guess you missed my point.

    I'll try to be more clear.

    I can't understand why a person would buy a car and after the deal is done, ask others if they paid too much?

    The deal is done! They must have been happy at the time they bought the car, right?

    So, time to move on with life, enjoy their new car and not worry about some know it all maybe raining on their parade!

    Just seems like a tough way to go through life. At least to me.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I can't understand why a person would buy a car and after the deal is done, ask others if they paid too much?

    Because it's a useful learning experience. If you make a mistake once, it's good to learn from it so you don't do it again.

    Those mistakes cost literally hundreds and even thousands of dollars, and that money is put to better use elsewhere.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Unless it really wasn't a mistake.

    I just see no point in trying to drag a person down by making them feel bad about the price they paid.

    Just like I can't see why someone would ask.

    But, that's me. I am still trying to learn that sweating the small stuff isn't good for a person.

    And, yes, in the realm of things, it IS small stuff!

    Not only that, a lot of the "experts" that tell the people who they got ripped off have no idea of all of the elements of the sale. Maybe, for example, the dealer had to roll negitive equity etc...??
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I am still trying to learn that sweating the small stuff isn't good for a person.

    Then just sell the cars below invoice, make it clear what absolute bottom price is needed to get the sales manager to give the nod, and make it easy on everyone. After all, that money is just "small stuff"...right?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Forgive me for thinking outloud.

    " Life is too short to be little"

    --Disraeli
  • kapbotkapbot Member Posts: 113
    Hey, thanks to you and everyone with the replys. Actually, there were rebates available, which I received, and also increased during the wait for the truck that was special ordered. Anyway, the question I was really trying to ask has been kind of answered, but let me try again by picking on a couple of stalwarts. To be clear, I'm not trying to start a fight, or trying to put words in any ones mouth, so here goes.

    A man, lets call him Bob, wants to buy a Honda. He finds just exactly the car he wants at a local dealer. He then does all the research he knows how and comes up with what he believes to be the rock bottom price he can get away with. He makes the offer & it's accepted. Isn't that pretty much the definition of the "rock bottom price"? It seems to me that at that point he is at the same place he would arrive at if he began negotiating from the dealer's initial offer. I believe that Isell may possibly be making this same point in a roundabout way. (?)

    On the other hand, wouldn't you have to be right behind Bob at the dealer **with the checkbook ready** and negotiating on the identically equipped model, ready to buy, to actually have any idea if he left anything on the table?

    Aren't you getting the "best possible price" when you believe you have received the lowest possible offer?

    Hopefully, I have expressed some of my rambling thoughts in a somewhat coherent manner. It just seems to me that if you can drive off in your new car feeling that you made an outstanding deal, didn't you just beat the dealer? Assuming of course you have some idea of what a good price really is.

    Thanks, let me know if I'm full of it.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    A man, lets call him Bob, wants to buy a Honda. He finds just exactly the car he wants at a local dealer. He then does all the research he knows how and comes up with what he believes to be the rock bottom price he can get away with. He makes the offer & it's accepted. Isn't that pretty much the definition of the "rock bottom price"?

    A key tenet of negotiation is that you should try to get the other party to make the first number. The reason is pretty straightforward -- if you, the buyer, make the first offer, then one of two things can happen to the price: it can go up, or it can stay the same. If one thing is certain, it's that the price won't be falling once you've tossed out that number.

    Let's suppose that you have a car that a dealer, after some haggling and such, would sell for $20,000. If you offer to buy it for $20,500, you can be fairly confident that the dealer isn't going to volunteer to sell it for the $20,000 figure once you've made your higher offer. He will either take your number, or counteroffer to see if he can pull even more out of you, but that $20,000 price will now be off limits to you. (You can't blame him, by the way -- any smart seller would do the same.)

    You can be effective in your research, but ultimately, your research will get you to the ballpark, not to the exact price that the other party will take. You can't discover that $20k price unless you figure out the other buyer's motivations and thought process, and then use a good strategy to tap into that figure to your benefit. A seller who is in a hurry, desperate, ill informed, anxious, etc. will take less than somebody else, and you should try to use that to your advantage.

    Which leads to another point -- some sellers are willing to take less than others. Again, you can't identify wehether you've found one of these people unless you take the time to assess them individually, and determine where they stand. For example, a sales manager anxious to move a unit to hit his numbers may even take a zero profit or slight loss on your deal if he can hit his other goals. You will probably never know exactly why he was motivated to do that deal at that time, but you'll never find it if you do all the offering.

    And that in turn leads to another point -- a good negotiator will get a better price than a poor negotiator. A lot of what happens in the deal has to do with how you manage the process, and is not just based upon some absolute price that everyone gets. If you set yourself up to pay more than the minimum, then you will.

    Also, don't just look at the factory-to-customer rebates, also look at the incentives that factories pay directly to dealers. On domestics, these can amount to a lot of money, and you should be able to capture it for yourself much of the time. Edmunds provides this information, as does Automotive News.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Hi Socal.

    You said, "You can't discover that $20k price unless you figure out the other buyer's motivations and thought process, and then use a good strategy to tap into that figure to your benefit."

    Assume I walk in and offer $20K OTD. Do you think they would accept?

    Or do you think I would have to wear them down a little for them to accept that price?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    But, then Bob drives home happy as can be in his new Honda.

    His next door neighbor greets him and asks him how much he paid for it. The neighbor suggests he may have paid too much. Now, Bob isn't feeling as happy and go's to the forum his neighbor suggested.

    Bob then asks the world..." did I pay too much?"

    Within minutes, the forum "expert" tells him that, indeed, he did pay too much!

    I guess some people just enjoy taking away joy.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I guess some people just enjoy taking away joy.

    I think that extra money in the consumer's pocket would create joy, not take it away.

    Apparently, the only advice you have to offer consumers is "Pay what the dealer wants, and don't ask yourself whether you could have done better." Sorry, but as a consumer myself, I can tell you that this is good advice for a salesperson, not for us.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Assume I walk in and offer $20K OTD. Do you think they would accept?

    Or do you think I would have to wear them down a little for them to accept that price?


    Put it this way -- you know that they might, or they might not.

    If they take it, and you have truly found the bottom, then you did fine.

    But there is also a high likelihood that they won't. Very few professional sellers offer their best deal in the first round. They make you work to get it, and they have to satisfy themselves with the belief that they did the best that they could with you. Remember, they will try to do the best that they can with each customer, but they won't know what "best" is until they give it a fair shot. And that probably involves pulling up your offer, or at least making an effort to do it.

    By the way, that's one reason to not make your best and final during the first round. By increasing your offer in subsequent rounds, you make them feel that they have worked you over about as well as they could, and tossing in some extra money allows them to save face. The counteroffer provides the appearance of compromise, and makes it seem that each side gave up something to reach the final deal.
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Isell, you crack me up. Are you of the "ignorance is bliss" school of thought?

    Do you consider yourself to be "taking away joy" when you charge ADM and all that? Or does that not bother you?

    Although if my neighbor asked me how much I paid for my car, I'd say "Oh, it seemed like a fair price." It's none of his business, the details!

    On the one hand, if someone's joy in their new car is taken away because they found out they did in fact pay significantly too much - well, that might be a good thing, because chances are they'll do much better next time around. They might not be so fast to whip out the checkbook in a new-car euphoria daze.

    But on the other hand, for most of us, our joy and excitement with a new car doesn't have all that much to do with price. It has to do with driving a car we enjoy. Price is important, but give or take $100 or $200, I'm not going to be all that bothered.

    Some people play the game as if dollars were points, and the guy who dies with the most points piled up wins. Me, I use my "points" along the way. If I'm buying some fun with those funny greenback pieces of paper, I'm happy. As long as there are enough of 'em coming in each month, life is good.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "Very few professional sellers offer their best deal in the first round. They make you work to get it, and they have to satisfy themselves with the belief that they did the best that they could with you."

    If a buyer has his offer refused and walks out and starts to get in his car, do you think the sales person is, as you put it, satisfied he did the best he could?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Your last two paragraphs echo my feelings exactly.

    What a miserable way to go through life, worrying about every last nickle and advising others to do the same!
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "if someone's joy in their new car is taken away because they found out they did in fact pay significantly too much - well, that might be a good thing, because chances are they'll do much better next time around."

    Bianca, I think you are exactly right. We should not be too hard on ourselves, but sometimes it is good for us to look at our lives and realize we should do things a little differently.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    If a buyer has his offer refused and walks out and starts to get in his car, do you think the sales person is, as you put it, satisfied he did the best he could?

    This is generally going to be more of a matter of timing and individual circumstance than an absolute.

    As you have seen on these threads from the salespeople, they aspire to create a "relationship" with you. They use the cues that you give off during this romancing process as a gauge for how things are going. If they feel that they are making headway, they use that as a positive sign, and begin to see your deal as one that they will be able to close.

    If you don't allow this process to occur, you can see from many of the salespeoples' responses here how upset they get. (They take it as both a warning sign and an insult, and will be wary and suspicious of you, as you are not following their rules.) But more to the point, the more that they raise their expectations, the more that they buy in to closing your deal, because they have traveled down the path themselves and get to a point that they want your deal.

    That's why timing is important. Very early in the process, there is no commitment on their part, and if you haven't played the game, they have very little to lose because they have no time or emotional energy invested in you. But if they have proceeded through this process and have committed time and effort to it, then they are more motivated to turn that time investment into a closed sale. And it's easier to tap into that lower price if they have committed so deeply to your deal that they can't afford to have you walk, even though your price is not optimal and may even be so low that the same price would have been rejected had they not taken the time to commit to all of that effort.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    I think what socala was saying that buy going over your past negotiation you can see if you were successful or not and adjust accordingly. If someone doesn't find out if they got a good deal or not then they will never improve their car buying technique. You may think that saving $10/month is small stuff but it adds up. $10 a month properly invested over the life of ones career can add up to 100's of thousands, thats not small potatoes.

    "Small stuff isn't small once it accumulates"

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    " they have very little to lose " , except for money.

    Last year we offered $20800 OTD for an Accord. When they refused, we left and started to get in our car. Then the salesman came out and said our offer had been accepted.

    I guess they didn't want to lose the $20800.

    However, you may be right that "it's easier to tap into that lower price if they have committed so deeply to your deal that they can't afford to have you walk, even though your price is not optimal". I haven't had enough experience negotiating to even begin to know how the other party would behave.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    There is a difference between worrying about every last nickel and being prudent with your money. I see it all the time people wasting thousands of dollars a year and justifying it by saying "I am not going to worry about every last nickel".

    Trying to get a better deal on the 50 cent can of beans at the Piggly Wiggly is worrying over every last nickel. Spending a little time trying to get a better deal on a $25,000 purchase isn't.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Spending a little time trying to get a better deal on a $25,000 purchase isn't.

    And the funny thing is that dealers go to a lot of trouble to get those nickels and dimes from us.

    Obviously, that money is important to them, which is why they fight to get it. They just don't want you to care about it as much as they do.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Just remember that Isell is on the opposite side of the table than us, that means his view is different than ours. Not saying that Isell wants everyone to pay top dollar but I would be surprised if he didn't want negotiations to go by as quick as possible. I am sure that the faster he can turn over a customer the more money he can earn.

    That being said I am sure that Isell has had his share of grinders that spend an hour or more to save $50 bucks (something that I wouldn't do nor do I think you would as its not being an effective negotiator). Since negative experiences have greater influence on perceptions Isell most likely views anyone who negotiates as more time consuming, and in some cases they will be. Hence in his eye people who negotiate means he works longer for the same amount, or maybe less, money.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    There is a difference between worrying about every last nickel and being prudent with your money

    Absolutely. And this is why I said, way back several posts, that if you keep a car for a long time (meaning at minimum six years, ideally for as long as automotively possible), then you come out way ahead.

    If you pat yourself on the back for being a great negotiator, but then turn around and buy (or worse, lease) a new car every two or three years, you're losing thousands of dollars in depreciation every time.

    You're even worse off if you in fact really did pay too much as well, but even in the best of deals, rapid depreciation takes its toll.

    Guess this line of thought goes beyond the forum topic, but if you're looking at overall financial prudence, it's something to consider.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Just remember that Isell is on the opposite side of the table than us, that means his view is different than ours

    Remember one thing...IsellH is a consumer also. He buys cars, clothing, food, shelter etc..just like you do. Just because he is a retailer of automobiles doenst exempt him from being a consumer also. I have read his posts for 6+ years now and I truly believe he buys products exactly the way he feels folks should buy cars.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Guess this line of thought goes beyond the forum topic, but if you're looking at overall financial prudence, it's something to consider.

    I agree, it is off topic and it is financially prudent. I have always said as long as the upkeep (including the value of the down time) is less than a car payment keep the car. A person who overpays by $1,000 and keeps the car for 8 years is better off than someone who underpays by $1,000 and trades every other year.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    If you pat yourself on the back for being a great negotiator, but then turn around and buy (or worse, lease) a new car every two or three years, you're losing thousands of dollars in depreciation every time.

    Fair point, but not everybody is quite in the same boat. In my circumstances, I need to have a semi-flash car. If I were to roll up in a ten-year old Nissan, I will lose credibility and be viewed unfavorably, rather than be congratulated for my financial prudence.
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    If I were to roll up in a ten-year old Nissan, I will lose credibility and be viewed unfavorably, rather than be congratulated for my financial prudence.

    Keep it shiny and gorgeous and detailed to within an inch of its life, and call it a "classic" car. That's my plan. ;)

    (Just had the six year old Max detailed - still looks gorgeous!)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Remember one thing...IsellH is a consumer also.

    That is true, but the system in place for buying most other items is not the same as buying cars. How many people at the Piggly Wiggly negotiate for that frozen pizza? How many people go to Wally world and ask whats the price on a pair of pants and expect the response to be less than the price tag? Nobody goes to Boarders and buys the latest best seller the same way they buy a Honda, you and I both know that.

    Different things (or at times the same thing at different places) have different commonly accepted ways to buy and/or sell them. Telling someone they should buy a car the same way they would buy a rose bush at the garden shop is wrong as it is possibly a great waste of money.

    Outside a house (which BTW is usually bought through negotiation) a car is the most people will spend on any object. Its a lot different than buying a clock radio at Sears.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    In my circumstances, I need to have a semi-flash car. If I were to roll up in a ten-year old Nissan, I will lose credibility and be viewed unfavorably,

    I don't know, I show up in a 6 year old Hyundai many times and don't lose credibility with most of my clients. Its when I show up in the Caddy that they begin to wonder.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Its a lot different than buying a clock radio at Sears.

    other than the trade in and dollar amount....how is it so different?
  • dad23dad23 Member Posts: 869
    Well from looking at your profile, I see you're in the finance arena. I would think if I was getting financial advice, I'd feel better if it were from someone driving a Caddy rather than a Hyundai. Or should I think they're better stewards of their $$ by driving the Hyundai instead of being up to their eyes in debt with the Caddy :confuse:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I walked into a Wal-Mart once and turned around and walked back out. Made a K-Mart store look high class.

    I really don't mind a customer who is knowledgable and serious about buying a car at the best possible price. I was the same way and that's how I buy things myself.

    I don't like joyriders, time wasters, non serious shoppers and people who are rude or talk down to me. As the Internet Manager I don't get many people like that anymore.

    And, I don't like people who are just downright cheap. There is a big difference between smart shoppers and people in that catagory. That is how these people go through life and that's fine for them. Not for me.

    Years later, I see these people trying to use double coupons and arguing with our nice cashiers over this. I see them pointing out dents in their cars that "weren't there" before we changed their oil.

    I watch thse people, and they just seem unhappy with life in general.

    Like I say...life is short.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    They take it as both a warning sign and a insult...

    I believe this true...but I think there is a way to optimise the chances of success using the "take it or leave it" approach that bobst and others have used. From what I recall,bobst walks onto the lot and hands the salesperson a slip of paper with an OTD offer for an on the lot vehicle. The only expectation he has from the salesperson is not to lose the piece of paper on the way to hand it to the salesmanager. Now, as you said, if I were a salesmen I would find this insulting...not saying I wouldn't sell the car...but certainly less inclined and motivated to do so due to the reasons socala4 mentioned.

    Now, you take the same "take it or leave it" offer and tweak it a bit. Greet the salesperson. Ask salesperson to talk some on the cars features. Ask some questions, take a test drive...drink a few sodas and eat some stale popcorn. Have the salesperson invest some of their time and "emotional energy" into the deal. Let the salesperson believe they are creating a "relationship" with you. When it comes time to talk price...let salesmen throw out the first number. Then counter with your firm "first and last offer". Let the salemen save face by cushioning this "blow" as much as possible. i.e "ya know you did a nice job in pointing out the nice features of this vehicle, and I would like to buy it...but I really hate the negotiation process. This is my offer...I respectfully ask that you consider it. If you accept...I will buy right now. If you don't, I thank you for your time, but I will leave to consider other dealerships."

    Now you may have spent and extra hour or two using this "jipsters method". But, you increase the likelyhood that your offer will be accepted. And due to the fact that the salesperson has invested "some" time and emotional energy into the deal...you probably can feel confident in making a slightly lower offer, saving yourself money.

    So, by spending a little more time with the salesperson. You increase the chances that your "take it or leave it offer" will be accepted. As well as saving youself many more hours, miles, money and time if it is rejected... mandating that you start the whole search process over again. Which is a pain IMO.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    other than the trade in and dollar amount....how is it so different?

    Uh, oh, you asked for it. (Bianca, you'll remember this one.)
    ___________________________________

    Imagine if this was what it took to buy a can of soup at WalMart.

    Sales Dude: So, are you interested in buying some soup?

    Customer: Yes, I'd like a can of soup. I'll take the Chicken Noodle.

    Sales Dude: Have you tried the Chicken Noodle Deluxe GT Soup? It's the best we've got.

    Customer: Well, I kinda like this other soup...

    Sales Dude: How much can you afford to pay for the soup? We can get you into this Deluxe GT soup for about $1.95 per ounce per month.

    Customer: I was wondering what it would cost to just buy the can of the soup I like, cash.

    Sales Dude: We've got some fantastic soup programs right now. In fact, we've got a great deal on a salt-and-pepper combo, only ten more cents per month.

    Customer: But I was just want to buy a can. How much for a can?

    Sales Dude: It depends. The Deluxe GT is piping hot, lemme tell ya. You'll need some crackers to go with that.

    Customer: But I want the normal soup. How much for that?

    Sales Dude: Have you taken it for a test sip? Try out this Deluxe GT. With the optional Thick Noodle and Mega Chicken Chunx packages, I can get you a great deal...

    ...(three hours later)...

    Customer: Is there a point at which that I can just buy this soup? I don't want to make payments on it.

    Sales Manager: Sir, this soup is really popular right now, I've got people driving from miles around to have it. You might want to get the Stain Protection package, it will keep your bowls AND your mugs clean.

    Customer: (Getting nervous) How much is the payment, then?

    Sales Manager: That depends. Do you have a trade-in?

    Customer: Well, I do have this can of green beans right here.

    Sales Manager
    : (Shakes head.) You know, these beans just aren't worth much these days, everybody's eating creamed corn lately. And this can has a dent in it.

    Customer: What can you give me for it?

    Sales Manager: I'm not sure, I'll need to get my finance manager to get his take on this. Want a cup of coffee?

    (to be continued.......)
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Jip, what if your offer is too low and the sales manager does not accept it? In that case, you have wasted a couple hours of their time. I think that is very inconsiderate.

    In my case, I walk in and make an offer. If it is too low for the dealer to accept, I find out quickly and I leave. I don't waste any of their time.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Jip, what if your offer is too low and the sales manager does not accept it?

    Your first offer should be too low (although not so low that you appear to be completely absurd and lacking credibility.) The low offer creates an arena for the give-and-take process that is part and parcel of a haggle.

    The sales manager will respond with a counteroffer (if he's good, he will attempt to get you to counter yourself, or possibly strongarm you a bit in an effort to gain back control of the deal.) If you negotiate properly for your side, you will get the sales manager to put out a numeric counteroffer, and you go from there.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    other than the trade in and dollar amount....how is it so different?

    How is it different? Le me count the ways...

    First I don't need to test drive the clock radio.

    Second there is no negotiation for the price, I don't like the price on the sticker I don't buy. The sales clerk will look at me funny if I offer less.

    Third No waiting for the Finance guy to run my credit report and find the loan thats right for me.

    Fourth the kid at the check out isn't going to ask me if I want my clock radio under coated or scotch guarded or have a paint sealer applied or etc, etc.

    Fifth I can walk into Sears find the clock radios pick one out pay for it and be out the door in something like 10 minutes, try that buying your Buiyota Benz.

    Sixth no trade in. (almost forgot that one)

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "Your first offer should be too low"

    How do you know for certain that your first offer has been rejected?

    I am only willing to increae my offer after I have absolute proof that my first offer has been rejected. I only know of one way to get this absolute proof.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Outside the tax season I do a lot of work helping people get out of debt and try to live a debt free life. A while back I went to a couple who were leasing Lexus and a Range Rover (as well as bleeding money in other areas). Part of my advice was to dump both cars when the lease was up and get a small economy car and one decent midsize (around $25K or less) sedan. Both cars would be used for comuting but the midsize sedan could be used for travel, going out and what not. This alone would have saved them hundreds of dollars a month.

    I then told them to drive the cars as long as they ran, even if it was 8 to 10 years. The reason for this is to save what you normally would pay for car payments. Of course I use myself as an example of how it works. If O arrive in a $50K caddy it doesn't help my case.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    How do you know for certain that your first offer has been rejected?

    The response that you receive should make that clear -- they don't immediately accept your deal. (Note that this does not mean that they won't eventually take that deal, but for the moment, they are going to continue to haggle.)

    I am only willing to increae my offer after I have absolute proof that my first offer has been rejected.

    Once you've made an offer, assuming that your offer was not accepted, the next number on the table should come from the salesperson. (Actually, this will most likely come from the sales manager.)

    As noted, a dealer who is a good negotiator will try to get you to counter yourself, by getting you to raise your offer, but you should get the dealer to provide the next number.

    You can, in turn, respond to that counteroffer in a number of ways, such as questioning his number (in order to get him to counter himself by lowering his price), by holding firm to and restating your last offer, or by increasing your offer slightly. This process can continue until you've both agreed on a price.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    I just want to know if my offer has been accepted or rejected. That is a very simple question. All I need is a Yes or No.

    I guess I just don't understand this negotiation stuff. When I ask a simple question, I need a simple answer. If I don't hear a Yes, then I interpret the answer to be No.

    At least I have found a way to make the car-buying experience very enjoyable for myself. To each his own.
  • dad23dad23 Member Posts: 869
    And that makes complete sense to me. I guess my point in part was I'd want to get advice on growing wealth from someone who I could tell was successfully practicing it, not someone possibly living out of their car...but I digress :D
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Bob your method is fine if I had five bobst style customers a week, assmuming that had done enough research on a fair price, I bet I could close four out of the five.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I just want to know if my offer has been accepted or rejected. That is a very simple question.

    That isn't really negotiation, that's dictating terms and demanding that the other party accepts them.

    That's not a likely way to find the best price. You may get a good price, and occasionally get a great one, but you may very well be walking away from someone with whom you could have done business with just a bit more give-and-take.

    That method can also upset the other party, because it appears to be dictatorial and unfair. They may perceive that they gave up everything, while you gave up nothing, which is perceived in our society as being uncompromising and unfair.

    And just as likely, because we know subconciously that being uncompromising can be irritating, it's not unlikely that we will end up offering too much because we fear losing the deal by appearing too unreasonable. By doing this, you've effectively negotiated against yourself before you've even started, and you may very well overpay in your efforts to avoid confrontation or rejection.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't want to speak for bobst, but I'm guessing he doesn't care. I think you are the type that does care, big time that you may have left something.

    bobst, will correct me if I'm wrong but I think if they accept his offer, he's happy!

    And, I think he's a pretty happy guy in life!

    The grinders are never happy. Even when their offer is finally accepted they still want something else. They leave with the fear that someone, somewhere, may have paid a bit less.

    What a miserable way to go through life...my opinion.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    actually the questions was about a radio @ Sears. Which employs salespeople. very different than some $5.00hr clerk in a smock....so try again.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Jip, what if your offer is too low and the sales manager does not accept it? In that case, you have wasted a couple hours of their time. I think that is very inconsiderate.

    Well, I guess my definition of "inconsiderate" is different than yours. If I go in and bargain in good faith...with every intention of buying and make a reasonable offer...I wouldn't consider it inconsiderate of me if the dealership didn't accept.

    I want to make the lowest possible offer that I think they will accept...under the "one offer, take it or leave it" principle, except under my model I believe the dealership would be more likely to accept the offer, as well as accept it for slightly less. I also don't want to be driving around from dealership to dealership trying to pick out another car that I like.

    So, with my investing some time with the salesperson playing the "game", I come out ahead with not "wasting" my own time going from dealer to dealer zeroing in on a price... and not "wasting" the various dealerships/salespeoples time in making the various offers to different dealerships hoping that one will accept.

    How long does it usually take under your method to make an offer? From the time you step out of your car to the time they say yes or no? Also, do you not test drive the car you are prepared to buy? Does the saleperson appear "offended" when you make this kind of offer?

    Your method seems to work well for you, in that from recalling your past posts, it seems that more often than not the first dealership you go to accepts your offer.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    You said "I would think if I was getting financial advice, I'd feel better if it were from someone driving a Caddy rather than a Hyundai."

    When I retired/laidoff, the 'investment advisors' jumped on me from behind every bush.

    I don't know if one actually outright lied and recommended that I withdraw all my 401k funds because my prior company could abscond with the money if they wished, but several made remarks strongly hinting that something could happen if I left my money there.

    The 401k is in Vanguard funds. The company has absolutely no control over the funds. But there have been a LOT of people laidoff in this town, and how many of them believed these comments?

    Anyway to the point about what a financial guy drives. My wife and I did talk to one guy I'll always remember. I had some item visible that said Corvette. He asked if I owned one. I replied "No, but I've been a previous owner." He then mentioned his Z06 Corvette (a 'weekend' car only), his airplane he owns and flys, the new house he was building, etc, etc...

    We decided he obviously made way too much money from his clients if he could afford all this stuff.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    He then mentioned his Z06 Corvette (a 'weekend' car only), his airplane he owns and flys, the new house he was building, etc, etc...

    We decided he obviously made way too much money from his clients if he could afford all this stuff.


    I think that it depends upon what you do for a living, and the car and lifestyle that you have because of it. For example, if the same advisor owned a 15-year old rusted Subaru and lived with his mother, that would probably also scare you off, even if he had a huge wad of cash and owned half of Kuwait.

    For myself personally, if I don't have something similar to a 3- or 5-series, folks will assume that I'm a bit off. For awhile, I hung on to an older used car, even though I could obviously afford better, and most of the feedback was not positive. I had to explain this a lot more often than you might think, and I'm sure that it harmed me in subtle ways. (Nothing fatal, but still, it could have been better.)

    While the flashy car might cost more, not having it can take away your credibility in different circles, depending upon the circumstances. At the end of the day, pulling up in that old beater can cost you more than you saved. In your case, your advisor might have better off if he had a Buick or a cheaper Lexus, rather than either a sports car or a rust bucket.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Has, no doubt made a lot of money from me over the years, yet he has never bought a car from me. He drives a Lexus but it's one of those glorified Camry type of Lexus. It seems to be "about right" for him since he's been there a long time and does a great job.

    On the other hand, I have sold at least four other Edward Jones guys cars including Odysseys, a Pilot and a couple of V-6 Accords.
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