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Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    socala4: I have enjoyed your posts, and find you have a pretty well balanced view. I think you are able to see both sides better than most on this forum.
    I am in my sixties and just in the last 15 years I have bought 16+ new vehicles. I too have felt taken to the cleaners on a few occasions. I can't remember a salesperson that acted dishonest, but later on when buyers remorse set in I saw how badly I allowed the pressure of the moment, and the thrill of a new vehicle, and the predatory practices suduce me.
    I can also say I have had some salepersons who actually were trust worthy, and did not push us into anything. I have bought as many as three vehicles from the Jeep dealer whom I bought our Liberty CRD from. I do not expect to get any vehicle at dealers cost, as I am not sure if any of us really know the TRUE COST.
    I think the game of buying a vehicle is one that requires patients, and willingness to take a risk and ask several times is this the best you can do? I refuse to pay a prep fee or a Doc. fee. These are extra places to take the buyer for a ride. The Vin etching is worthless to me as well pin stripes added or Cloth protection, and paint protection. These items can add up to $1,000. IS ONE IS IGNORANT ENOUGH TO GO FOR THE SUCH AND JIVE.
    My wife and I work well together, and She always drives first on a test drive. If we have to have a sales person go with us then he sits in the back seat> Most generally the back seat of most vehicles are tight for an adult. When a sales person is uncomfortable and answering questions there is a advantage for the consumer to ask is the back seat roomy? Any time I can get a sales person to agree with me about something a little wrong, that's a point for me.
    I by no means think I have many answers as how to get the best deal. But I hope I get better than the average deal.

    Farout
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    jack47jack47 Member Posts: 312
    Just signed in on this forum durng the past week and have enjoyed the back and forth negotiating comments.

    As a long ago (Korean War) CIC S/A and POW interrogator I guess I (laugh) shouldn't use, in dealing with car salespeople, what, in the 1950's, we found to be effective negotiating techniques in "interviewing" North Korean POW's.
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    stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Audia8 writes:

    quite frankly for most consumers the best deal would be found by using the Bobst method. to summarize...

    Do your homework on the car you want, decide on a price you want to pay, pick out a car in stock your ready to buy NOW...but also be ready to walk out if they can't hit your number....

    StockmanJoe:

    The devil is in the details. "Decide on a price you want to pay" - that is the big question. It depends on how much a dealer will sell you the car for and figuring that out is the topic of discussion. I know one answer that is incorrect is if the customer thinks its a good deal than it is - I don't think so.

    I read all of "bobst" posts and all I could glean from them is bring your checkbook with lots of money because the salesman knows better than you. No wonder you salesman are cheering him on. His is a recipe for a good customer screwing on the price.

    Case in point. I recently purchased a 2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L. They initially wanted me to pay MSRP and give me 16K for my car, after about 20 minutes (I won't let them play mind games I tell the salesman to slither to and back from the sales manager in five minutes or I will leave) we settled on 19K for my car and invoice for theirs. Now I realize this isn't the world's best deal but by knowing my numbers and alittle negotiation skills I did save 6K. The other dealership I walked out on called me the next day and I had to say "too bad so sorry" you had your chance.
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    biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Sounds like you did well on the Odyssey.

    Whenever the salesmen here say "life's too short" to negotiate "for that last $50," well, I'll believe them when they also say that "life's too short" for THEM to haggle when a customer offers invoice price or less. If it's not "too short" for them to go a round or two of negotiating, it's sure not for me, either.
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    scottlmcjscottlmcj Member Posts: 5
    I love reading these boards and seeing both sides. I am a car salesman in real life, and I like to think of myself as an "honest" salesguy. I usually start off asking a few hundred over invoice and if need be will go a little lower.

    I treat my customers with respect, but I also think that is a two way street. Some of the consumer posters on here bash sales guys for trying to "squeeze" every penny they can out of consumers, but think nothing wrong of squeezing the car sales guys.

    I can say this, the guy that comes in with a chip on his shoulder that tells me he's gonna beat me to death is usually the guy that gives me a crappy survey, complains he paid too much (even if he paid invoice minus half the holdback) and never sends me customers.

    Most of the times I hit my "bullcrap tolerance point" with those guys then walk them. The way I view it is why do I need a mini for a customer that will act as if I ripped them off, treated them like crap, and in general will be a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] in the future.

    You can negotiate hard and well, but still have a good relationship with your sales guy and that goes the other way as well for us in sales. I have had customers that I made almost no money on that I like because they treated me with respect and treated it for what it was, a business transaction and nothing personal.

    The guys that come in and make it personal (accusing me of being a sheister, con artist, liar etc) before we have even begun to talk are the ones I can't stand.
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    stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Biancar:

    No its more like, "Stockmanjoe are you really going to let 50 dollars or 100 dollars or 500 dollars get in the way of this deal?" What a stupid question. I turn around and say Car Salesman are you really going to let 50 dollars get in the way of this deal?" Remember there is only one of me but there are dozens of dealerships.
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    raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    You were treated fairly and did your negotiations in an honest and upright manner. Why ask for a bribe? Give them a good review and expect to be treated fairly in the future.
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    bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Thanks, cti. I'm glad my advice helped you.

    At least you were prepared when you went to the dealer and you had a plan of action, which must have helped you feel more in control of the situation. That makes car buying a much more enjoyable experience.
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    Remember there is only one of me but there are dozens of dealerships.

    Remember you are simply a customer, there are millions of us out there and we walk in the door of the dealership every day.

    "Stockmanjoe are you really going to let 50 dollars or 100 dollars or 500 dollars get in the way of this deal?" What a stupid question.

    It may be a stupid question but it is a ploy to get you to come up to their price. Yes you can turn it around to them but I would simply say "Yes".

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "I would simply say 'Yes'."

    I would not even answer the question. There is no reason to expend any energy answering questions like that.

    I guess you are more agreeable than I am.
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    bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "I read all of "bobst" posts and all I could glean from them is bring your checkbook with lots of money because the salesman knows better than you."

    That's right. Keep throwing money at the dealer until they say, "Enough! The car is yours!" Then include a $500 tip.

    How people can buy a car without rust and dust, mop and glow, or choke and croak is beyond me. Even though we pay cash for our cars, I always get GAP because I have heard it is a good thing.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh, I see...you would sell yourself out for a bribe?

    That speaks volumes.
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    biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Car dealers feel they have to offer bribes to get good CSI?

    That speaks volumes too.

    (FWIW - no bribe or offer from my dealer, and I gave them straight "excellents.")
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Belated thanks, that's nice of you to say, I hope that you find this stuff helpful.

    I can also say I have had some salepersons who actually were trustworthy

    I'm not claiming that all of them are evil, bad, etc. And whether they are good, bad or indifferent doesn't change the fact that I'm still going to negotiate with them.

    I don't negotiate because I dislike car dealers, but because it saves me money. It's all business, and nothing personal.

    You touched on some good points, and you are clearly doing some things right:

    -You understand the value of patience in your negotiations. That's wise -- if you have time constraints that you communicate to your opponent, those will be used against you. Ironically, the people who worry the least about speeding things up will generally have the fastest negotiations. Having a nothing-to-lose attitude gets better results.

    Dealerships use the "turnover" method in part to wear you down, but that won't work on a patient person who is not in a hurry. In fact, if you manage it properly, it will ultimately work against the dealership, because they will be motivated to convert their investment of time and effort in you into a sale.

    -Asking for more is also a good tactic. It's not wise to simply providing counteroffers that raise your price, you can also counter by explaining the virtues of your last offer (salesmen do this all of the time when they respond to customer objections), asking them to do better, or toward the end, by walking out.

    My wife and I work well together

    That's very important. If you go into a negotiation with a partner, but you don't have a game plan to work together, then you will probably do worse than if you were alone. Salespeople learn to look for couples who are unprepared, and will try to turn you against each other if they see this. But with a plan, you can use a partner to your benefit, and tag team the dealership in much the same way that they attempt to tag team you by using the "turnover" method to pass you through three sets of hands. (Don't think for a minute that the turnover from the salesperson to the sales manager to F&I isn't specifically designed by the dealership to serve their goals to make higher profits.)

    Any time I can get a sales person to agree with me about something a little wrong, that's a point for me.

    Another essential tactic. Salespeople will attempt to get you to say "yes" throughout the process, and to say positive things about the car, etc. in order to get you into an agreeable mode of thinking. It's wise to find real or imaginary flaws with whatever you're buying so that you can offer the appearance of compromise in agreeing to the deal.

    I by no means think I have many answers as how to get the best deal. But I hope I get better than the average deal.

    You seem to understand the nuances of managing objections and not falling into the "yes" trap that salespeople use to win you over. I'll bet that you're doing well with this if you are researching all of the numbers, and aren't using MSRP to determine where you start negotiating.
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    I guess you are more agreeable than I am.

    I wouldn't say that answer makes me more agreeable, the answer will, hopefully, throw them off balance.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Used properly, it's not a bad answer. The sales team is trying to get you to feel embarrassed over debating over what he claims to be a trivial amount. (Of course, he's trying to collect the same trivial amount that you are trying to avoid, so both parties are playing the same game. The dealer is pretending to be morally superior, but is really in the exact same boat.)

    By saying, "Yes, I am willing to walk out over $50," and implying that you don't have any shame in doing it, they will need to abandon that tactic and move on. At that point, the sales team either has to cut things off with you, or else they have to give in.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Some stores do that. They will offer a tank of gas or a free oil change for a perfect survey. We have never done such a thing.

    And, some people will sell themselves out. After all, the almighty dollar, once again is involved!

    They could have been treated like garbage but that part doesn't amatter I suppose.
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    socala4: Thanks for your response. We usually take anywhere from 2 to 10 days to make up our mind. I always push for something to be added for free. I have never paid sticker price. I have known people who paid up to 20% above sticker for add on's that were just a gimics to jack up the price. I have found out that adding a Service Contract to extend the warranty, on the price to be financed is crazy. With Chrysler Service Contracts you can get a Service Contract with Max Care, 5 Year 100,00 miles no deductible interest free for 3 years, the dealer sales price is anywhere from $1,800 to $2,500. I got it for $1,550. on our Liberty CRD. That was $50. over dealers cost. I never accept the rebate! I hate rebates! Rebates are nothing but a return of an over charge! Really it amounts to be money that is loaned to you and added on to the loan. This rebate stuff is the biggest trick auto makers have come up with to trap the consumer into getting into a vehicle with a huge negative vehicle true cash value. This has effected the value of used car trade in. There is no such thing as taking a dealer for a ride, and him loosing money. My wife says vehicles are "necessary evil"
    I remember when 24 months was all you could finance a vehicle for. Now you can finance some vehicles for up to 84 months! I wonder how young people can have a house payment of $900. + and a car payment of $600. and credit cards up the wazoo, and eat out much of the time. Is it any wonder the divorce rate is so high? People tend to love things rather than people. It's all twisted the wrong way. Thanks again for the post.

    Farout
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    sc00bssc00bs Member Posts: 87
    yeah its because the "in group" talks among themselves and ignores everyone else. Instead of providing detailed responses that would help other people they continue to argue with each other. Sigh....
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    sc00bssc00bs Member Posts: 87
    Some of the off rentals im looking at are without some standard options that the cars should come with (some have extra options that are not even available on models and trimlines). How does one account for this during the process of negotiations?

    Just as an example, lets say I by a GM car that should come with Onstar standard for the year. Since it was a rental car it doesn't come with onstar. Do you deduct a price for that and if so how much?

    Some others I have noticed. Lack of traction control, side airbags, etc.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Such as On Star don't add much to the value of a car.

    Most people that do have On Star don't bother signing up for it. I know I wouldn't.

    Those ex-rental cars can be a lot of car for the money.
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I may have misunderstood, but I have to stop you here:

    I never accept the rebate! I hate rebates! Rebates are nothing but a return of an over charge!

    Are you referring to the factory-to-customer incentives? If so, you absolutely should take this money, it belongs to you.

    Just be sure to use it properly. Negotiate the price of the car to as low a point as possible, and use the rebate to purchase the car at that low price. Don't negotiate in such a way that the dealer keeps your rebate for himself.

    For an example, let's suppose that you want to buy a new car that has an invoice price of $20,000, that is being sold along with a $800 factory-to-customer rebate.

    Let's suppose for the sake of the clarity of the example that this car can be purchased for invoice. (For the sake of clarify, we'll ignore any taxes, license fees, etc.) In that case, your purchase may look like this:

    Purchase price:
    -Total price: $20,000

    Sources of payment:
    -Cash from loan or buyer: $19,200
    -Factory rebate: $800
    -Total paid: $20,000

    In other words, don't give the dealer $20k in cash, and forget all about the rebate, otherwise you just handed the dealer an extra $800 for no reason. Keep that money for yourself.

    There can also be factory-to-dealer rebates, that you don't see but can often learned about from such sources as Automotive News and Edmunds. (Edmunds calls these "marketing incentives.") These are particularly common with the domestics, but it isn't unknown for these to be paid on other brands, even Hondas and Toyotas.

    In those cases, the situation would be different. Once your haggle begins, you will want to mention at some point that you are aware of these extra monies sweetening the pot, and that you will be reducing the purchase price because of this.

    So, again let's assume a $20,000 invoice on a car that you can normally expect to buy at invoice, but that has a $800 factory-to-dealer rebate. (This is not holdback, which is a different matter entirely.) In this instance, you should go for a purchase price of $19,200 ($20,000 - $800 = $19,200). This effectively nets the dealer the same amount that he would have made before the incentive program, and passes that rebate benefit onto you.

    And remember, the fact that a rebate is being paid at all is useful information worth using to your benefit. Remember: the automakers use these rebates to get rid of excessive inventories, so when these rebates are being paid (whether to the customer or the dealer), it's because the factory wants to get rid of those extra cars.

    These rebates tell you that there are plenty of these cars available in the marketplace without the demand to match, which is a further hint to you about how little you can pay. You can bet that a car being sold with incentives is abundantly available, making it a buyer's market for those types of vehicles.
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    bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    If you even respond to stupid questions, you are letting the sales person control you by asking a series of questions.

    If the sales person asks you a stupid question, I think it is best to simply ignore it.
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    If you even respond to stupid questions, you are letting the sales person control you by asking a series of questions.

    No thats not always true, sales people work from a script and are expecting a range of responses that they have answers to. If you come out of left field with a response that they don't expect it takes them off balance and they are no longer in control. You can also provide a so called thought stopper where again they start to lose control.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    If you even respond to stupid questions, you are letting the sales person control you by asking a series of questions.

    Not necessarily, it depends upon how you answer them.

    On the Purchasing Strategies thread, Jipster did a deal where he had a great response to a similar question. (It involved using his wife, who was not at the lot, as a "bad cop" for leverage -- pass the blame onto her, as it were -- and introduced a bit of humor into the haggle.) It helped to put the question in a different light, and the price remained lower, where it belonged.

    If you walk blindly into the comment, then yes, it will be used against you. But if you field it correctly, it can actually help you to keep the price lower without countering in the form of a higher price. Dealers use this "It's Only $_____" gambit so routinely that you should develop a couple of planned responses to it, and be prepared for it.
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    biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Some stores do that. They will offer a tank of gas or a free oil change for a perfect survey. We have never done such a thing.

    But do you sell your cars with a full tank of gas? And offer the first oil change free?

    Those things I would consider normal, and don't have anything to do with "bribing" for a perfect survey. If anything, the free oil change is a sweetener trying to get people to use the dealer's service dept., so it's going to lead to more profits in the long run.

    I know I would mark something less than excellent if I drove away with significantly less than a full tank of gas when I bought the car. So maybe that's a "bribe" - I just consider that part of a complete sale.
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    stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    That's right. Keep throwing money at the dealer until they say, "Enough! The car is yours!" Then include a $500 tip.

    How people can buy a car without rust and dust, mop and glow, or choke and croak is beyond me. Even though we pay cash for our cars, I always get GAP because I have heard it is a good thing.

    Bobst: You left out wearing your underwear backwards and bringing your own jar of vaseline to the dealership. LOL!!!
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    stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    You were treated fairly and did your negotiations in an honest and upright manner. Why ask for a bribe? Give them a good review and expect to be treated fairly in the future.

    I can't say the review will be perfect, as they want it but it will be good. If they wanted a perfect review they should have earned it. I guess you may be right
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Joe, that's not fair. Bob tends to make low offers based upon invoice and the lowest prices reported by price sources such as forums here.

    If he does it right, which he seems to, he's going to be reasonably close to the bottom, and he may even occasionally hit it. He may not be at the very lowest of the low, but he's going to outperform much of the buyer pool with his methods.
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    stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Oh, I see...you would sell yourself out for a bribe?

    That speaks volumes.


    Sure I will take anthing I can get from these snakes after all they have blatantly offered it. I would hate to disappoint them.
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    stockmanjoestockmanjoe Member Posts: 353
    Some stores do that. They will offer a tank of gas or a free oil change for a perfect survey.

    Thank you for at least answering my question.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, I sure don't work from a script and I don't think I ask stupid questions either.

    If my customers are friendly and talkative, I'm the same way and that's easy since that's my nature.

    If, on the other hand, they are cool as ice and strictly business, I pick that up immediatly and I respond in kind.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You misunderstood me. We do fill up all of our new cars as soon as they come off the transports.

    I was talking about a SECOND tank of gas.

    That would be the bribe.
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    sc00bssc00bs Member Posts: 87
    Ok, this may seem like a stupid question but then does that mean if a car has an option on it that isn't important like onstar, satellite radio, etc. I should not pay for it?

    You know when you use Edmunds and such they value the cars with all the available options and it adds a value. Most dealers that I know charge for every little extra bell and whistle (and onstar can add a couple of hundred dollars to a car). So as a consumer if I deem the option not important then should I be deducting a price off the purchase price of the car?
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    biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Well...you can get lost in the nickel and dime game when you try to take it apart like that. You should do as much research as possible to try to find out what comparably equipped cars are selling for in your region, and of course as a good shopper, your goal is to pay less than that if at all possible.

    When you make your offer, you don't have to say "I don't like OnStar so won't pay for it." Then you just get into a debate about OnStar, which is not your purpose.

    Just say "I would like to buy this car for xxxx." You don't have to justify how you came up with that figure; the dealer will either take it or he won't, and there's your answer. If he won't, and if that's the price you're willing to pay, then you walk away and try another dealer.
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You know when you use Edmunds and such they value the cars with all the available options and it adds a value.

    Although options can add significant expense for the purchase of a new car, they tend to add relatively little value in determining the value of a used car -- in other words, they depreciate quite rapidly compared to the car's base value. Features such as OnStar, special comfort and lighting packages, and deluxe stereos add relatively little value, if any at all, certainly not worth what you would have paid for it new.

    That being said, base model cars with no equipment can be difficult to unload. In this day and age, I wouldn't dream of buying most cars without A/C, power windows, power locks, etc. if I ever expected to resell it later.
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    I ma pretty sure that if you are a good salesman you have some type of script you use. You have a list of things to go over, anticipated questions with the answers to. Comments to get the customer into the sale.

    Not saying that you have something you read line by line as a presentation but you do have a somewhat routine way of presenting your product.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    One thing I haven't done is mention WHY I think the bobst method is best for most consumers....I believe that socala way will work if somebody is very prepared and very experienced...most consumers are not. Bobst employes something that is very hard to overcome in sales...he isnt afraid to get up and walk out. OTOH the socala method keeps the customer in front of me...for many consumers this puts you exactly where I want you. Most consumers don't have the negotiating experience to sit in front of an experienced negotiator/closer over a period of time and win...Socala appears to have the knowledge and experience to go head to head with a professional negotiator. This is why his ideas work for him...most consumers don't have the same skills.
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    That was a good, insightful post, thanks for that.

    But to clarify, I haven't told people that they should never walk out, and I've used that myself to good effect. What I'm stating is that if you are going to walk, it should be timed to a point at which the walking is meaningful. Walking too soon just doesn't lead to anything.

    Bob helps himself by being fairly stalwart, and by putting his offer in writing, which gives his offer more credibility and helps to get acceptance.

    Aside from depriving the seller of a "relationship" that he so eagerly wants, the main problem is that he is locking in a price that may not be optimal, and he is forced to depend wholly on third-party research to get his guesstimated value, rather than using information that a negotiation might bring to the surface. His guesstimate may be a good one, but maybe not.
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I am pretty sure that if you are a good salesman you have some type of script you use. You have a list of things to go over, anticipated questions with the answers to. Comments to get the customer into the sale.

    Of course that's true. Salespeople get sales training, which includes methods of overcoming objections.

    I know this -- I don't have a rigid script, but I approach negotiations with a game plan, including a few catchphrases and lines to match my tactics. I plan for the other side's objections, and plot out methods and likely sequences of events. It's like a chess game -- you plan the game several moves ahead, and make contigency plans. If I do this, you don't think that a sales pro does not?
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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,350
    Bobst employes something that is very hard to overcome in sales...he isnt afraid to get up and walk out.

    Even in negotiations you employ the "get up and leave" ploy. You may not do it right away but with good timing its a better ploy than in Bobst way.

    for many consumers this puts you exactly where I want you. Most consumers don't have the negotiating experience to sit in front of an experienced negotiator/closer over a period of time and win...

    I think that the average consumer given the proper coaching/preparadness can overcome the experience of the salesman. The problem is that to many are uncomfortable in the negotiation process (they dislike conflict) and for these people the Bobst method would be better.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,150
    Perhaps you can offer this person advice about his/her Extra key dilemma
    ;)

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

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    jack47jack47 Member Posts: 312
    Wow! Still happy even after not only being lied to but also being royally....for the lack of a better word....screwed out of $2000.

    What a rosy view of the world!

    Re: Walking out...unless a person does walk out...or, at least, feigns leaving, s/he may never know if s/he got the "best" price.
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    biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Kind of funny that the guy had done his research, found the car he wanted on line, bookmarked it on his trusty computer but did not write down the asking price and VIN in an even trustier dime-store notebook, that he could have taken to the dealer with him!

    Some people are their own worst enemies, I swear.
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I think that the average consumer given the proper coaching/preparadness can overcome the experience of the salesman.

    Absolutely, and I have given guidance to several people whom I know in the "real world" and who had little negotiation experience that improved their skills and gained them stuff that they never expected to get. This stuff works, and it isn't difficult to do if you know where to begin.

    A bit of guidance and some self-confidence go a long way to getting good results. Most people have the inate talent to do well with it.
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    You have a list of things to go over, anticipated questions with the answers to.(snake)

    but I approach negotiations with a game plan, including a few catchphrases and lines to match my tactics. I plan for the other side's objections, and plot out methods and likely sequences of events.(socal4)

    These statements really go to the meat of this discussion. It would be very enlightening, insightful and helpful if we(consumers) could get a real life "demonstration" of this type of diologue and exchange between a salesman and a potential car buyer. The negotiation process from introduction to close. A role playing exercise that would need two volunteers. :blush: How about socala4.... and you Mr. Audi8q??? I would ask isell but I doubt he would want to share his methods.

    It's helpful to give guidelines when discussing negotiations and strategy. But, when you can give real life examples it really gives life to the guidelines. Tactics, actually diologue exchange and methods is what we need more of here.

    My favorite strategy when purchasing our new minivan almost two years ago was simply to say, "Well okay, maybe I need to recheck my numbers"... which was true.

    The salesmanager showed me a high invoice number. "Well, maybe I should go and recheck my numbers...then come back if I miscalculated."

    Salesmanager saying he wasn't making any money on the deal...the salesperson wouldn't be making any money. I would get up to leave, " I guess I need to check my numbers".

    Salesmanager would get a paniced look, "Now hold on a second Mr. Jipster sir...let me go check my figures again and see if we can work something out." Now, like socala4 posted, I didn't say this right off the bat. But, about an hour or two into the process. This type of exchange happened roughly 3 times...with the salesmanager dropping price each time. From thousands of dollars to hundreds(diminishing returns). He absolutely, positively did not want me to walk. I could actually see it(frustration) in his face that I was getting much more out of the deal than he was wanting to give.

    Now the above was negotiated with very little experience and having been a member on Edmunds for only about 4 months. I think I could do better now...maybe eat into holdback...get a few more freebies thrown in. So, it's really not just a socala4 or bobst method you can use when buying a vehicle, but the hundreds of combinations and variations inbetween. ;)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You nailed it with this tactic:

    Salesmanager saying he wasn't making any money on the deal...the salesperson wouldn't be making any money. I would get up to leave, " I guess I need to check my numbers".

    Salesmanager would get a paniced look, "Now hold on a second Mr. Jipster sir...let me go check my figures again and see if we can work something out."


    The sales manager gave you a figure. His goal is for you to increase your price.

    But you didn't. Instead, you gave yourself an excuse to leave that wasn't confrontational or accusatory. (How can he argue with your desire to make sure that your offer made sense?)

    Of course, you know that he doesn't want you to leave, because you may never return and he just wasted an hour or two if you buy nothing. So he saves face: maybe his data wasn't accurate. (No harm, no foul, if he "corrects" his last offer, right?)

    This is a good illustration, because it shows that as the process continues, the sales team's priorities change. At first, they'd like to score a high-priced sale with plenty of extras, but they will eventually move to a moderate sale, and end up at practically any sale, because of that desire to make their time investment pay off.

    Nice job, Jip.
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    Good point jack. Kirstie and many others look for a "no hassle" buying experience. They paid what the dealership was asking(non Carmax buy). Their reward? The dealership saw this as a sign of weakness and tried to exploit this "apparent" lack of knowledge by adding on bogus numbers and inflating the purchase price. As so many of us do here at Edmunds...the dealership underestimated kirsties ability. ;) But, for many that aren't as prepared or knowledgeable....they can get screwed over.

    As socala4 and others have mentioned before, this is less likely to happen if you show to the dealership that you are knowledgable and a tough negotiator. :)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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    bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    The buyer didn't get an extra key? Well, he better get one pronto before he loses the one he has.

    In the paper I read about one person who lost all of his keys to a Toyota. They needed to install an entirely new security system and it cost $2300.

    I love keys!
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    jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,251
    Thanks.

    That's exactly right in not getting into a "power struggle" over who has the correct numbers. Gives dealer the opportunity for the, "well, let's split the difference" ploy.

    The salepeople and salesmanager were nice individuals to deal with. But, that didn't mean they still didn't try to take the $3,000 rebate off MSRP instead of invoice. They were trying to do their job...and I was trying to do mine.

    Though we did make a mistake in letting our time constraints be known(i.e calling babysitter saying we were going to be late)It did not interfer in our negotiations, as I felt they were progressing satisfactorly. I was enjoying the "game" and was actually hoping for extra innings. ;)

    I don't know if this was wise on the part of the salesmanager or not. But, at one point that we(wife and I) were getting up to leave(over price)the salesmanager asked us to wait. I'll never forget what he said, " Jip...95% of the people who say they will go home for whatever reason and then come back...never do. We can work this out." It did work for him in a way though as he got his sale, and I got my price. :)
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
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