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Lexus RX 400h and 450h

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Looks like the postponement has something to do with refinement issue, more than a supplier issue. I do not understand why Prius waitlist would have a higher priority than 400h waitlist.

    Q: Why did Toyota delay the launch of its hybrid Lexus sport utility vehicle, the RX 400h, to next spring?

    A: The postponement allowed us to refine the vehicle further and to expand capacity to produce more Prius hybrid cars. We're giving preference to the Prius because there is such a long line of customers waiting for the cars.


    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0410/24/c04-313133.htm
  • All:
    When I spoke to Lexus about their pre-orders for the 400h, they said they were developing a Lexus-to-consumer direct contact system for keeping people up-to-date. I'd love to hear from anyone who has been contacted by the manufacturer, and/or if the order system runs smoothly.

    http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=22575
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    The postponement allowed us to refine the vehicle further and to expand capacity to produce more Prius hybrid cars.

    I have to agree with wwest, Toyota has found some real problems with the HSD and larger vehicles. This is just another way to pull the wool over our eyes. What do they mean "REFINE"? This vehicle was supposed to be in production and in the dealers showrooms a year ago. They supposedly have a RX400h with a million miles on it. That in itself smells suspicious to anyone that can add and multiply. I would bet they can get their CAFE numbers in line with one money loser, the Prius and that is what will be sold to the public. Plus the dealers have thousands of people's deposits that they can use to floor higher profit vehicles. Go to any Toyota or Lexus dealer and tell them you want on the hybrid list. I'll bet they all try to sell you something else. Toyota has not even decided where they are going to build the 5,000 additional Prius per month that they promised.
  • nmpnmp Posts: 19
    You watch a lot of X-files reruns, don't you? It's a car, not a conspiracy. If dealers abuse the demand, that's life in the automobile business.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    You watch a lot of X-files reruns, don't you? It's a car, not a conspiracy.

    I can't say that I ever watched that show. It must be from watching tomorrows news today on CNN. I don't think it is a Toyota conspiracy. I think it is a Toyota business plan. They are in the business to make money. Hybrids will never be big money makers except for a few scalping dealers.

    Whether you want to accept it or not, they build the Prius to offset the gas guzzling LX470 and the Land Cruiser. Two of the worst polluters on the planet.
  • nmpnmp Posts: 19
    Every automobile company is in the business to make money. Toyota had 26 Billion dollars in free cash several years ago..and their market share has only improved since (industry finance insiders refer to cash horde the as the "Bank of Toyota"). As such, it is illogical to expect them to squeeze money out of what is essentially a boutique vehicle in terms of total sales....the RX400h is no Camry or F150 cash cow. Hybrids are still token vehicles (although the new hybrid Accord may rack up serious sales). For now, the RX400h is just a media and PR magnet. It is more of a marketing coup instead of money maker.

       It is also most likely a first rate engineering headache. However, Toyota can afford to get it right. And they had better...for if the first SUV/hybrid is a engineering disaster (or even disappointment), it will be a PR nightmare. Think Audi's unintended acceleration woes or how GM destroyed the notion of a practical American diesel with their 5.7liter gas-conversion monstrosity in the '70's.

        I don't know what this has to do with the Prius balancing out the LX470/Land Bruiser twins for CAFE manufacturer fleet gas mileage. What difference does it make if they sell a hybrid at a loss instead of a gas-powered Echo to comply with federal regulations? It is not sneaky...it's business. I agree they are horrible polluters...but their market share is so low, their OVERALL contribution to vehicle based pollution is relatively negligible. If you want to complain about volume polluters, the american pickup truck (F-150, GM/GMC etc) sell millions of guzzlers a year.
  • "Looks like the postponement has something to do with refinement issue, more than a supplier issue."

    Remember, RX400H will have a 4WD-i version as well. Rear wheels will have another(independant) 50kW motor. I bet Toyota is exploring all the possibilities to take advantage of it in safety, performance and efficiency. Torque control accuracy in 4WD-i is down to milliseconds! To my knowledge, this configuration has never been implemented in production vehicles.

    "I do not understand why Prius waitlist would have a higher priority than 400h waitlist."

    When you build a house, you want to make sure the ground you are building on is solid. Toyota made Prius a priority even though they can make more profit by selling 400H. It is a long-term investment rather than short-term profit.

    Dennis
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    I were designing the hybrid RX all of them would be AWD with the dc motor/generator at the rear and only a small I4 at the front.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Are you suggesting that Toyota is exploring all (or other) possibilities after announcing production, and "millions of miles" of successful testing.

    As far as building a house on solid ground is concerned, you seem to be iterating your opinion along the same lines I have (in case of IMA).

    And it still doesn't answer the question. Why announce production, have waitlist and then say Prius gets a priority? I don't think capacity is "the" issue, or is it?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Aah, the Acura RDX prototype... 2 in-wheel electric motors mounted on the rear wheels, and the front wheels powered by 2.4-liter I-4 for a total of 250 HP.

    We might know within a year or so, if this prototype has gotten the nod for production as the next new Acura.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,042
    Some off-topic posts have been deleted. Consider the forums a refuge - a politics-free zone. If you look hard enough, you can probably get a political fix somewhere on the 'net. Keep digging. I'm sure something will turn up :)

    400h, please.

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  • "Why announce production, have waitlist and then say Prius gets a priority? I don't think capacity is "the" issue, or is it?"

    What can I say? Unexpected demands of Prius create unexpected delays. Note that RX400H would use twice the battery as Prius. It is my guess that Toyota allocated HH and 400H battery packs to boost 05 Prius production to achieve 150,000. What bothers me is the lack of information that Lexus is senting out to the potential customers. They said they would set up a system that would do it but hasn't.

    Dennis
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Doubling production of one car while complaining about lack of batteries for another does not make sense, even if 400h is going to use twice as many batteries.

    It makes no sense to me to give priority to Prius buyers (if it indeed continues to have waitlist with increased production) while not a single 400h is delivered.

    If there wasn't another issue, and I had a decision to make, I would probably increase Prius production "enough", say, by 30K units, and that could relieve batteries for at least 10K units of 400h.

    How long do you think the 400h waitlist is?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Also, autoweb.com actually had a first drive review of the RX400h on their site 2 days ago but when I went to check it out today, they took it off line.

    They said they got 34MPG on a 412 mile loop around Hawaii.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Batteries fully charged and full tank before and after??
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Beats me. Articles typically don't go into that much detail. It got pulled for some reason or another, so really can't go back and read it. Tried a few times yesterday but the autoweb.com site says it's been removed.
  • pjo1966pjo1966 Posts: 140
    The way I look at it, they want to be able to make their customers happy. They don't expect a Lexus customer to wait a year like the Prius customers have. The average Lexus driver would not put up with that.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    They don't expect a Lexus customer to wait a year like the Prius customers have. The average Lexus driver would not put up with that

    Lexus drivers have been waiting. The RX400h was promised back in 2003 for early 2004 delivery. The latest is April 2005. That is six more months. Many prospective buyers have put down money on them for a good place in line. Same treatment that the Prius wannabe buyers have gotten. The only unknown is how shabby the Lexus dealers will treat their buyers, when and if the RX400h ever makes it to the dealers showrooms.....
  • pjo1966pjo1966 Posts: 140
    ... also whether or not they will set aside some for sale above MSRP while they have people waiting on a list for MSRP at the same dealer. There's a lot of that going around for the Prius. For every 5 or 6 they get in they toss one to someone waiting on a list. The rest they sell for $2000 above MSRP or higher.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Typically Lexus dealers are pretty good with pricing. I haven't heard of much in the way of price gouging for new cars or marking up cars beyond MSRP. I know for a fact, Lexus corporate emphasizes(or basically warns) to dealers not to mark up cars past MSRP. ANd I think a majority of dealers understand this due to the fact alot of Lexus buyers are repeat buyers and you don't want to piss off repeat buyers! And it's been shown that when people pay more than MSRP for a car, they tend not to go back to cars from that manufacturer when it's time to replace.

    Lexus customers are more apt to put up with waiting times than a Toyota customer would be. People wait & have waited in the past for months to get their cars. To some extent, wait lists happen with high occurance in the luxury car marketplace.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    Lexus, though, is not at all conflicted about how to promote its $52,000 RX 400h. Its "Lexus to the Power of H" ad campaign debuting in April is all about the unexpected power of its hybrid. Its Web site even brags that Formula 1 racers are interested in its electric motors. "Never in our marketing will fuel efficiency be the first thing mentioned," says Clements. "It's all about a great performance vehicle that's guilt-free."

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6480057/site/newsweek/
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    The car, SUV, buying public is not that dumb!

    If the Lexus RX400h is ALL about performance then it will be seen as nothing more than a Suburban with an SC.
  • The article was very interesting. How did you find it? Also, where did you get the price of the RX400h? I am one of those 9500 people with a deposit to a car that I have few details.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    The article was posted by LARSB on another thread this morning. It shows $52k as the price for the RX400h on page two of the article. It is 3 pages long and worth reading. I thought they were going to be around $42k. Sounds like they want to get the big profit instead of the dealers. Hopefully that is a fully equipped model.

    source:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6479959/site/newsweek/
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    is probably a result of the fact that they're a lot fewer V8 performance SUV buyers out there than "greenies" that would be willing to buy a truly fuel efficient SUV.

    Development costs have to be recovered somehow.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    I posted here a few months back that I had spoken to my local Lexus dealer about pricing for the new 400h. He said to expect "north" of 50K. When I posted that on this board I was "hooted down" with "no way, Jose". Well, we will see, but if you look at the premium price for other hybrids, and the cost of near-lux sedans, I would frankly be amazed if the new 400h is not 50k or above with any level of options.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    When I posted that on this board I was "hooted down" with "no way, Jose".

    Sounds like you had the right idea before anyone else. I think that Lexus has learned from the Prius sales. When they see how many crazy people will pay a premium for anything that says hybrid they decided to go for the gold. They could probably put an MSRP of $55k and people would pay it just to be first on the block. Hype sells hybrids.... No way are they an economical option.
  • loloplolop Posts: 3
    The article is still in Google's cache. There are 7 pages:

    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:mgDG1QfE5xkJ:www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/129++site:www.carsmart.com+carsmart+lexus+2006+%22page+2:+Technology%22&hl=en

    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Q-X1ijAUSXsJ:www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_int/2/article_id_int/129++site:www.carsmart.com+carsmart+lexus+2006+%22page+2:+Technology%22&hl=en

    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:GqyGW3XtL0YJ:www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_int/3/article_id_int/129++site:www.carsmart.com+carsmart+lexus+2006+%22page+2:+Technology%22&hl=en

    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:7NfznuxaZkwJ:www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_int/4/article_id_int/129++site:www.carsmart.com+carsmart+lexus+2006+%22page+2:+Technology%22&hl=en

    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:i7vdE_VeQK0J:www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_int/5/article_id_int/129++site:www.carsmart.com+carsmart+lexus+2006+%22page+2:+Technology%22&hl=en

    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:OYSNxzHp8cQJ:www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_int/6/article_id_int/129++site:www.carsmart.com+carsmart+lexus+2006+%22page+2:+Technology%22&hl=en

    http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:-oRnqt-OI5UJ:www.carsmart.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_int/7/article_id_int/129++site:www.carsmart.com+carsmart+lexus+2006+%22page+2:+Technology%22&hl=en
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    "PA Fuel Economy: 28 city and 30 highway"

    Well, that goes to prove the theory that you can't beat physics with Hybrid technology. One cannot achieve truly high mileage in a heavy, large frontal area SUV.
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