Lexus RX 400h and 450h

maxhonda99

"TMV on Edmund's $40,339 Includes options PT & NV HID, Moonroof, NAV a full $9000 less than comparably equipped RX400h. That price is $3k under MSRP, with a little arm twisting they would drop another 2 grand. "

Let's try sticking with MSRPs. You can't exactly use TMV since individual pricing varies based on many factors like time of month a customer goes in to buy, color selection, dealer inventory at any given time, regional pricing variances, not to mention someone could even get a discount for trying to buy a car at 8:30PM on a friday night! If you held a gun to the general manager he may even give you one for free!

As I said before, the base MSRP on a RX400h is $48,535 to a similarly loaded RX330's $45,083, that's a $3,500 difference.

maxhonda99

gagrice,

What happened to your $13K price difference a few posts ago? Now you're down to $9K?

It seems like you just whine everywhere. Read your posts on the Accord Hybrid board also. Basically the same story as here.

gagrice

Basically the same story as here.

That is because the same story exists on many of the hybrid boards. There are posters that are trying to convince those looking in that the hybrids are worth the extra money they cost. You say the difference is negligible because you compare MSRP. No one I know would pay MSRP for a vehicle. Even the RX330s are discounted from MSRP as much as $5k. I am sure the RX400h will be selling at or above MSRP for a while. Some cannot wait to be the first on the block with a new toy. The HAH was $3000 over MSRP in San Diego. Now many parts of the country are selling them at invoice only 3 months after they came on the market. Maybe the RX400h will be a raging success. Only time will tell that. Even the popular Prius is getting easy to find in most parts of the country. And the difference I pointed out was with the limited knowledge of what will be offered in the 400 vs 330. It may be more than $13k or less than $9k. Either way you will never make up the difference in fuel economy. It is just a glorified wannabe SUV. Now that should give some of you good reason to be annoyed with my posting. If you don't want to hear the bad side of a vehicle why are you on the forum. You can go to the dealership and get all the positive information you want to hear, along with coffee and maybe even a Krispy Kreme donut.

drives1

Does anybody know if the RX400h will have built in XM?

callmedrfill

And in most parts of the country the Mini Cooper S (and Conv.), the Scion tC, and the Toyota Prius are selling for MSRP (and have an Edmunds TMV of the same).

Especially if you are looking for a color, or a option in particular, you are looking at dealer trades, factory orders, and it becomes exptremely difficult to get more than a couple of hundred off.

OBTW, If YOU can get a RX for $5k off, you'd be a fool not to! Be smart and get one!

DrFill

gagrice

You didn't do well in math class huh? Let's see you say a $5K discount. So that brings a $45K RX330 to $40K,

Your right I didn't. I did well enough to know if you pay MSRP for any car you are getting screwed. If you keep it 15 years it is not as important. If you trade every 3 years, like many do here on the Forum it makes a huge difference at trade-in time. Then again the demographic this car is aimed at have more money than they can ever spend in a lifetime, so it is good for the economy. That is the bright side.

My Edmund's shows an MSRP for the RX330 with moonroof, NAV, HID, leather trim of $43,385. The TMV is 40,339. After a bit of arm twisting I have no doubt I could get that vehicle for $38k. Even at TMV you will be lucky to get your RX400h for $9k more. I still believe it will be more like $10k to $13k additional.

Now if that isn't bad enough, the vehicle is worthless off-road in sand or mud. How am I doing on the negatives of buying an RX400h?

markrogo

I've done both alleged search terms listed above.

Neither brings up any list of dealers with availability and no waiting lists.

ptm123

If you want my opinion you both miss the point. MSRP, TMV or the price you pay for a car are just points of reference onto whether or not you have made the best deal. Actually Edmonds.com had a great article written by one of there staff who went to work as a salesman at two dealerships, one a high pressure volume dealer and they other set price dealer. In both cases the sales price of the car was only one aspect of the bottom line profit. More money was made on the trade-ins and the financing than on the cars in lot of cases.

The last three cars I have purchased were demo, rental or leased vehicles that were 9 to 18 months old. The prices were between 35% to 45% off the original MSRP. The were all kept a average of 10 years. My last purchase was a 1997 SAAB 900 which was a rental/service loaner. I purchased for 1K under wholesale blue book and traded in a Toyota Celica for the just over retail blue book. The reasons I got this kind of deal was the 900 model was being replaced by the 93 and the dealership did not own the car, if they didn't sell it by the end of the month would have had to return it with no profit (ie. little profit is better than none). This was a case of motivated seller, they even completed the transaction even though we were missing the title for the Celica.

The downside to these strategies is you don't get a fresh new car and your not buying the latest generation of technology. I few months after purchasing the 900 we brought it in for service and even though it was the top of the line feature was they loaned a new 93 which not only had every feature, but much superior ride and handling characteristics. So the bottom line is you get what you pay for.

The question around the RX400h is does it meet the needs and desires of those who are interested in buying it. Do they want to want to wait until the supply/demand situation changes where they may be less money or they can get one cheaper on a secondary market. In my case I am looking at the utility, size, performance, quality, styling efficiency and total cost. Also of course the all important marital tranquility factor (ie a car that me and my wife can agree on). In my case I could care less about off-road, I don't know were I would have to go in this area to drive off-road even if I wanted to. I do not want a car that is so big it is a pain to drive or park. A perfect example was my neighbor bought a pick-up truck to plow his driveway. He had great plan to drive the plow into his garage and store it there. He carefully drove it in garage making sure not to hit the sides, screech the top hits the garage door opener and get scratched the roof. Moral, size isn't everything.

The bottom line is that pricing is determined by the market, how well informed the buyer is and whether or not you get a good deal is how you feel about driving the car over the long term.

bob_graham

Saw this article on line. I think we will drop out for a $5K to $8K premium.

http://www.autonews.com/

Toyota's hybrid SUVs will carry premium price
Toyota Motor Corp. expects to charge hefty premiums - about $5,000 to $8,000 - for its gasoline-electric hybrid SUVs compared with the gasoline-powered versions of the same vehicles. Lexus dealers in the United States already are taking orders for the RX 400h hybrid, derived from the popular RX 330.
View story

Kirstie_H

This isn't the Spanish Inquisition, folks. If your post isn't specifically about the 400h, there's a good chance it'll be deleted.

maxhonda99

"Now if that isn't bad enough, the vehicle is worthless off-road in sand or mud. How am I doing on the negatives of buying an RX400h? "

Oh, that's the first time I've heard about these negatives from you!

Let's see how many perspective RX400h owner's are going to take it off-road---next to zero.

Let's see how many SUV owner's do any off-roading. I hear the percentage is like 5%!

Buy a Land Rover LR3. It seems to be the machine that fits your bill.

lexrexblue

I believe the referral brought up this. (I didn't find a list of dealers who had cars.)
http://www.richefrus.com/Lexus_RX_Hybrid.htm
I spoke with this person today. He is a salesman from Prestige Lexus in Ramsey,NJ. They are getting in 35 cars by May 15 and will take $1000 deposit now since they didn't take any before. They are selling it for msrp with the heated seats option.

gagrice

Oh, that's the first time I've heard about these negatives from you!

I've brought it up before. That was when I realized the RX300 or RX400h would not be suited to replace my Suburban. My question then as now, why does the vehicle exist? Is it just to taunt the anti-SUV crowd. There is so much anti-SUV rhetoric in the hybrid camp, I am surprised they have embraced the RX400h. It is still one of the hated SUVs.

PS
My Suburban tows my utility trailer and gets us in and out of the desert very nicely. Still looking for a replacement if anything will improve on it.

wwest

REALLY strange!

18,000 pre-orders for RX400h.....??!!

$1000.00 deposit for May, initial deliveries, at MSRP...

Isn't NJ an area of the highest population density in the US??

I guess us left-coasters must be buying a LOT of RX400h's.

Or did that Lexus salesman, the one that told me that all pre-orders had been cancelled, actually know what he was talking about?

maxhonda99

"I've brought it up before. That was when I realized the RX300 or RX400h would not be suited to replace my Suburban."

It was a joke!

"My question then as now, why does the vehicle exist?"

I don't why you don't know why it exists. I think a whole lot(and I mean a whole lot) know why it exists!

"It is still one of the hated SUVs."

The RX is a hated SUV? IF that is what you mean I wonder how it became the best selling luxury SUV overnight.

'My Suburban tows my utility trailer and gets us in and out of the desert very nicely. Still looking for a replacement if anything will improve on it. "

Yes, something will improve upon it, a new 2005 Suburban.

gagrice

Yes, something will improve upon it, a new 2005 Suburban.

NO thanks I'll keep my 99' Suburban. I don't like the new one. Too small.

The RX is a hated SUV? IF that is what you mean I wonder how it became the best selling luxury SUV overnight.

Americans as a whole love SUVs. It is the anti-SUV movement that hate all SUVs. I see anti-SUV opinions on this hybrid forum every day.

markrogo

See, this is textbook trolling:

"Or did that Lexus salesman, the one that told me that all pre-orders had been cancelled, actually know what he was talking about?"

Maybe the dealer never took pre-orders for whatever reason. In fact, I'm sure that's exactly what happened.

There just isn't any chance that every pre-order was canceled unless they had few or none to begin with.

My dealer has 200+ people on the pre-order list as do others in the area.

wwest

the dealer never took pre-orders for whatever reason. In fact, I'm sure that's exactly what happened."

Interesting that this was the very same dealer that took my RX400h "pre-order" back a few years ago before all the production delays happened.

I gave up and had my name removed after the second delay.

Has anyone been able to verify that the sales have now been delayed until mid-May?

wwest

18,000 pre-orders for the RX400h have been announced by Lexus.

Is a pre-order simply a list, prioritized, of persons who have expressed an interest in purchasing an RX400h?

In which case 18,000 is very likely a valid number.

But pure unadulterated VAPORWARE!

Each time I have placed a Lexus (or Porsche) vehicle order factory built to my specifications the deposit was a quite serious number, ~10%, and not refundable once the vehicle started through the production process.

That wasn't the case with getting my name on the RX400h list but I assumed it was due to my reputation at the dealership having purchased a number of Lexus vehicles there.

Has anyone had to put real money, non-refundable money, to get on the RX400h pre-order list?

birger

Hi,

There might be a very simple explanation as to why the price in USD of the RX400h has gone up: It's built in Japan, from mostly Japanese components - and IIRC the USD/JPY exhange rate has evolved similarly to the USD/EUR rate over the last year or two.

Cheers,
Birger

markrogo

.... you don't want the car, fine. Please stop talking about it.

The rest of us here want the car. Many of us have pre-ordered. They have $500 from me. That's all. But they have it from a lot of people. I'd guess 80-95% of us will take delivery of the car.

I'm sorry this bothers you, but the car is going to be a huge, huge success. Why can't you grasp that?

wwest

Because I think, quite firmly, that the stellar success of the Prius is based on the "greening" of the car, low emissions, excellent fuel economy, acceptable level of performance. And not just a little of "use of high, current, technology to a very good means, result".

I am also bothered by the number of delays in bringing the product to market. Even were it equipped with an I4 yeilding V6 performance as one would expect the delays, of unknown cause, made me leary of being an early purchaser.

And I haven't said that I wouldn't eventually buy one. I am quite intrigued by the possibility of using a custom ground intake cam set to convert the engine to the atkinson cycle. Thereby gaining another 20 to 30% in fuel economy for highway cruising and possibly bring the HP/torque level back down to the much more reasonable, IMMHO, V6 level.

And frankly, as I have said before, only the future will tell.

wwest

Granted.

Absent questions directed to me specifically, as above, I will drop my participation for the moment.

At least until the product is in the hands of customers and factual information becomes available.

frenchorne

I have seen information from a CA dealer that allocation will lock on Friday, April 1st for the first group of RX 400h's. She suggested if you are on a waiting list it would be a good idea to contact your dealer to confirm your order. Color selection has been going on for the past week.

Not sure if this is true for all regions ...

ptm123

We were requested to give our preferences two weeks ago, light blue and dark green were not available. The salesman still was talking about a April 15 release date.

frenchorne

With all of the comparisons made regarding whether or not the premium for the RX 400h is worth it, I decided to compare the various categories of SUVs. I chose to use the Edmunds online tool - TCO (True Cost to Own). The model has it's limitations (as all models do), but it does allow one to get close to an apples to apples comparison. I did this a couple weeks ago. These numbers are constantly updated, so you might get slightly different figures if you do it yourself today.

Most forum members are probably familiar with the bases (5 yr. ownership, 15k miles per year). TCO includes TMV (True Market Value, not MSRP), Depreciation, Financing, Insurance, Taxes/Fees, Fuel, Maintenance & Repairs. Anyway, here are the results:

Category - Avg. $/mile

Compact SUV 4 cyl. (RAV4, Escape, Forester, CR-V) - $0.45
Mid-size SUV 6 cyl. (Highlander, Explorer, Pilot, Sante Fe, Murano) - $0.52
Mid-size SUV 8 cyl. (Grand Cher., Explorer, Durango, 4Runner, Toureg) - $0.63
Mid-size Luxury SUV 6 cyl. (RX330, MDX, Toureg, X5, FX35) - $0.67
Large SUV 8 cyl. (Expedition, Tahoe, Sequoia, Armada, Yukon) - $0.73
Mid-Lg Luxury SUV 8 cyl. (XC90, SRX, Toureg, X5, FX45, ML500, Aviator, LR3, GX470) - $0.82

A few quick observations:
1. OMG! do they really cost that much? (Compare to IRS reimbursements)
2. The model can't figure out what category the Toureg is in. Perhaps poor positioning by VW.
3. The range in any category can be large. For example, the XC90 is $0.70 and the X5/SRX are $0.96 in the Mid-Lg Luxury 8 cyl. category.
4. People are willing to pay about $0.11 to $0.15 per mile more for an 8 cyl. over a 6 cyl.
5. The RX 400h is not in the Edmunds model as yet, but using some simple assumptions (based on what we know today), it will probably look pretty favorable when compared to the Luxury 8 cyl. category. (Expected cash price of $50-$52k plus tax)
6. SUV selection is a complicated decision. Affordability is only one of the issues and fuel is a relatively small part of the cost (~10-20%).

skyfish400h

its so quiet in here...

Will the 400h be any good on 4WD roads?

Just kidding...

jamessahal

I'm from the UK and fuel prices are STILL GOING UP! The sales of 4x4s are still high but over here we dont buy the heavy gas guzzling V8's we buy the 6 cylinder diesels. To fill up a VW Golf 1.6 Litre will cost £50, thats $98. A Nissan Murano 3.5 V6 £85, $154. The BMW X5 3.0 Diesel is said to get 32.8 mpg but the urban figure is more like 24 mpg, but in real terms, a lot lower than that. The thing is though that the UK is not nasty! As you seem to put it. It does rain at times and is not always cold! When it does rain it is not like how it does in Florida! We don't really need 4X4s here its just a trend. The Lexus RX400h has a waiting list! So this means if you go out and order tomorrow you won't get it until at least the end of this year/spring next year. So, you all try running your V8 SUV's over here and then you will know that your gas prices are not high compared to ours! Those big ugly Chevrolets that get 10mpg :mad: will empy your pockets and you would all have to start driving small Volkswagens that get 50mpg like a lot of people here do! 1 in 4 UK car buyers now go for a diesel!

kenlex41

Maybe we have run out of stuff to say. I will add that my dealer called yesterday and had a black/black RX400h come available. Not my original color choice, but I will take it. He told me it will be in by the end of the month. I was number 35th on the list. I am looking forward to getting it! :P If I waited for my original color choice, he said it would be "at least two months." Also, it will come loaded with everything except the DVD player.

plee1

Has anyone been told by their dealer when Lexus expects the 400h to be certified by the IRS for the federal clean-fuel vehicle deduction?

hybrat

Its the only place in the world where you can build a RX400h, though none are built there (unlike the RX330)?

boatfloyd

Very Good. I agree 100%.
boatfloyd

krellu

My salesman told me that the first two months worth of the vehicles are built.I knew this for a few weeks.On friday he will know the dealership's allocation for the first two week period.

dylan hixon

How do you break-in a hybrid?

Prius tells you avoid hard starts and stops, and to vary the engine speed. How do you do that without a tach, or any direct connection from the gas pedal to the throttle?

I will probably put in a tach just to see what the car is doing.

Dylan

dylan hixon

My NY dealer has told me that they will invite people on the waiting list to the showroom to see, but not drive, the first car, and determine who gets what at that time.

Here is a post from a large CA lexus dealer from another board.

**APRIL 18th NEW LAUNCH DATE**

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The title says it all. I just found out there are more delays and now
the new launch date is April 18th, which is the following Monday. Every
dealership is getting ONE car on the same day. Then they will start
rolling in.

frenchorne

My dealer informed me that the first 400h's will arrive at the west coast port (Portland, OR) on April 10th. They expect to see them in Michigan no later than April 20th. I saw another post that said they will arrive at the east coast port (NJ) on April 14th and at dealers by the 20th.

It won't be long now.

bob_graham

An update.

First, we got a call from the Lexus dealer today. They said we would be getting the white unit with heated seats and Mark Levison audio, price $50705

Should be one of the first units. We are at the top of the list.
We plan to lease. Has anyone got lease numbers?

Second, we love our our 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee. 1500 miles and zero issues. So it looks like we'll have both parked in the garage together.

kenlex41

We were at the dealership last night signing paperwork. Mine is still in Japan, but the dealer showed me the list and the others said April 10th port. So they are on the way.

Kirstie_H

You might be interested in editor Karl Brauer's initial impressions of the 400h:
editor_karl, "Karl's Daily Log Book" #126, 6 Apr 2005 7:12 pm

ultra64

Do you get the $2000 tax credit if you lease?

skyfish400h

got to yahoo to see what they are saying about the 400h

http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/lexus_rx400h_2006/4337/model_overview.html;_ylt=Aryhh55wSb.- wa1G9w7gcW1UbKMcF

one glaring mistake is the 208 hp rating... does not tell the whole story.

cyclone4

We just got word from our dealer that we will likely have our RX400h sometime in May. We are 17 on the list, but a few already purchased a different vehicle. They are allocated 16 vehicles between April & May. Therefore, as long as our color preference (flint mica) with black interior comes in, we will be proud owners of the 400h soon. My wife and I are really excited about this .She will be driving it most of the time while I have to "suffer" ;-) with my 2004 LS430. I have one question for all you knowledgeable folks sice we forgot to ask the salesperson (they are closed until Monday). I know it takes regular unleaded fuel, but will it take 10% ethanol blend? The reason I ask is that ethanol is 10 cents per gallon cheaper than regular unleaded in our state. I would think that it would indeed take ethanol (89 octane), but I thought I would ask to hear for sure. By the way, I have been using ethanol blend with my LS430 and it runs hust great.

absduisburg

How are we moved, actually?
With Ebay. com Having somebody 5,000 dollars pays at a RX 400 to receive.

I believe the carriage gets for us in the europe unaffordable.

kabeyun

> 5. The RX 400h is not in the Edmunds model as yet, but using some simple assumptions (based on what we know today), it will probably look pretty favorable when compared to the Luxury 8 cyl. category. (Expected cash price of $50-$52k plus tax)

Shouldn't the RX400h be compared to other Mid-size luxury V6's? I'm sure is would look favorable stacked against V8's!

-K

kabeyun

> Prius tells you avoid hard starts and stops, and to vary the engine speed. How do you do that without a tach, or any direct connection from the gas pedal to the throttle?

Good question! And besides, that's how you break in ANY car! Thank's a heap, Toyota! LOL! :P

-K

frenchorne

"Shouldn't the RX400h be compared to other Mid-size luxury V6's? I'm sure is would look favorable stacked against V8's!"

Well, it's difficult to categorize the V6/Electric Motor hybrids when the performance is enhanced to approach V8s. I can only speak to my own decision process to replace my SUV. I considered the ML500 (I drive an ML430 now), FX45, X5(4.4i) and RX 400h. Until now, the RX was underpowered compared to these vehicles. Granted, there are many other factors to consider, which I did when deciding on the 400h.

skyfish400h

Does anyone have experience with those aerodynamic cargo boxes that bolt onto the roof rack (Thule). Can you use those with the RX?

I'm thinking if the 84 cu ft of cargo cap shrinks to only 35 if you have people in the back seat. There will likely be a need to put stuff on the outside for camping trip to the mountains or long road trip.

what say ye?

kenlex41

I thought of that too. I would like to find one designed for the RX and color keyed to match the car. So far havn't come across any.

marmadmax

I have no personal experience with these carriers, but I know you can get them color customized for your vehicle. And, they are available in sizes suitable for the RX. However, they are not inexpensive! Check them out at:

link title

marmadmax -

P.S. Dealer notified us this past Saturday our 400h in our first chioce color would be delivered to us before the end of April. We were #12 on the list. Can't wait.

frenchorne

I have very good experience with the Thule Evolution boxes. They fit on any rack that has cross bars and they come in multiple sizes. It is very easy to attach and detach (minutes) and it opens from either side. I have the Evolution 1600 (about $430). I believe they only come in silver or black. You only need to make sure you stay under the weight limits of the roof rack. I usually load it with bulky stuff that's not too heavy. Good luck.