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Welcome to the forum. I have read your posts with interest. This forum exists to hear the good and the bad about vehicles. Your input as an Owner of the new RX400h is appreciated. I also agree that if a person has to change his driving style to get decent mileage from a hybrid, that is not much of an advantage.
If buying a Hybrid forces someone to change "bad" driving habits and start using the instrumentation tools on the dash and paying more attention to the fact that "how a person drives" makes a HUGE difference in the amount of fuel used and wasted, then it is an advantage to EVERYONE who cares about pollution, fossil fuel waste, and the future of our world.
I appreciate your concerns. I am not saying that one needs to totally change his driving style, but let's face it. One can do a few simple things to attain better gas mileage. My main point above is that there is no way that anyone would get 19.3mpg in city driving unless something is drastically wrong. There is no way that the city driving will result in worse gas mileage than highway driving. I would like to hear from others out what their experiences have been to this point with the RX400h. From a personal point of view, my wife and I are very pleased. We are getting the quality vehicle that we were told we would be getting. Headless, you will hopefully get better gas mileage results sooner rather than later.
Regardless, I'm not defending aggresive driving or driving too fast...that, of course, is bad...and highly inefficient...
And if you think driving fast is bad, it's certainly safer than looking at an instrument panel while you drive! Better to always have your eyes on the road...no matter what you're driving...
I'm sure (and hoping), with time all will work out and my new RX will get over 26 mpg average...I can live with that...need to put on a few thousand miles first...
Don't think a driving change is needed....just a few modifications...(I hope that's all!)
Headless
Hmmm, turbochargers don't weigh 250 lbs. I suspect the RDX will get the same mileage as the CR-V
"Well duh. a traditional internal combustion engine is also at it's best when paired with a smaller, lighter more aerodynamic vehicle. What's your point??? Did you really think the RX400h would defy the laws of physics and get 40 or 50MPG?"
Thanks for making my point, which is that some people seemed to look forward to the SUV hybrids for gas mileage, thinking in line with the Prius. My original statements (way back last year), were that the hybridization of the SUVs would not net the kind of increases inherent in Prius-class vehicles. In other words, they aren't good for the planet (if you are into the "green" stuff). I realize they are better than large SUVs, but in terms of the environment, that is like saying a 250 lb bomb is better than a 500 lb bomb to the person being hit by one.
" The reason they didn't put a 4-cylinder into a RX400h is because they were smart. They knew(and have known for years) that very few people shelling out $40K+ for a luxury branded product in the US will buy a 4-cylinder."
You might check my post, I said "SUVs" intentionally; they don't even offer it in the Highlander Hybrid...
Well, not by much, since it is based on the CR-V. The differences:
Head room: Equal
Leg room: RX has 1 more inch in front, and 3 inches less in the rear
Shoulder Room: Rx has one additional inch front and rear
Cargo: Rx has more with seats up - by 5 Cu Feet / 12 Cu Feet with seats down. (Rx wins this one).
Ground Clearance: CR-V - by one inch more clearance
The RX is about 3 inches more in wheelbase and length, 2 inches more in width.
The CR-V weighs in at 3500 lbs with AWD, while the ICE only RX weighs 4065 lbs. (Wouldn't be fair to compare weight of the Hybrid, due to the batteries)
So the RX is larger, but not by much - on the outside. If I slide those CR-V seats forward to make the same rear legroom as the RX, the CR-V goes to about 40 Cu feet with the rear seats up. So while the outside is larger on the RX, the insides are very similar in capability.
I wouldn't normally compare these two vehicles, because one is a luxury class and one a standard class, but the Acura RDX will probably be similar in size and weight.
And, no, I'll never "break even". If I drive 10,000 miles per year, I'll use 400 gallons +/- vs. the 660 I use now. So I'll save 260 x at least $2.50 per year (I assume gas prices will actually average quite a bit more, but I'm certain I'll averager $2.50) so that's $650 a year in gas savings. 5 years, I save $3000+... I don't even know what the hybrid premium is, after adjusting for the options, but whatever....
I go from 15-16 MPG to ~25MPG (and maybe I do better) and take tons of emissions out of the environment, fill up less often, do a little something for the planet, sleep better, etc.
To me, that's worth a few bucks per month.
Also, I believe the savings (fuel consumption) is more so rated as a percentage over the standard engine in the same vehicle. So you can't really compare an RX Hybrid to a Precis or a Hybrid/Turbo CR-V, etc.
I posted this link in another board but it may be more fitting here;
http://www.fueleconomy.gov
Several years ago I purchased a new 2003 Prius.
It does not achieve the advertised EPA MPG ratings nor did I expect it would. According to the onboard computer it averaged 43MPG for the last 7394 miles, 95% in city. Odometer indicates 17119 miles since it rolled off the showroom floor. 405.151 gallons to travel a total of 17119 miles gives us 42.253MPG. Guess that computer is pretty accurate.
This morning I noted that the average MPG reading on my 2001 AWD RX300 is 17.2MPG. That's very likely at least a 3,000 mile average if not as much as 5,000 miles. It very likely includes several highway trips of 200 to 300 miles. To put that into context that is about the MPG we could get in our 1992 Jeep Cherokee Limited with the I6 motor with purely highway miles.
We get ~22MPG in the RX300 for pure highway travel.
Not all that bad, all things considered.
So, 20-24MPG in city for the RX400h is about a 20% to 40% MPG improvement over my 2001 AWD RX300.
Also not bad.
But.
RX400h highway cruise MPG....
When I first bought the prius I noted that the batteries continued to be used even at a constant highway speed. On a trip to Portland from Seattle, ~150 miles, other than driving HP, the ICE needed to be used at least 4 times to bring the batteries back up to a charged state.
This made no sense to me so I bought the Prius manuals to begin looking into the possibility of disconnecting the batteries during highway trips to extend the MPG rating.
NOT POSSIBLE!
The Prius CVT, Constantly Variable Transmission, is not the same one most of us are familiar with. Basically the CVT in the Prius and the RX400h is simply a differential, very much like the one found in many transfer cases of an early 4X4.
The ICE drives one input and the electric motor drives the other input. The rate at which the output shaft turns is the "sum" of the two inputs.
The bottom line is that the electric motor MUST be used at all times, even at a constant highway speed. The "front" electric motor in the RX400h determines the CVT "gear" ratio. And yes, that is detrimental, possibly highly detrimental, to highway fuel economy.
But not really a bad compromise if the object is to attain stellar in city, stop and go traffic, fuel economy and ultra-low emissions.
Got that?
IN CITY ULTRA-LOW EMISSIONS..........!!!
Think Los Angeles.
So, my mind is made up, my next vehicle will be a new 2006 AWD RX330 (350??) with air suspension. That's provided, of course, that the engine hesitation symptom is overcome by then.
A hose is connected to the tailpipe to collect the engine exhaust.
The amount of carbon in the exhaust is measured to calculate the amount of fuel used during the test.
This is more accurate than using a fuel gauge.
A hybrid on their dyno is going to readings that don't match actual fuel consumption since different amounts of electrical energy will be used. For example suppose they did an "in town" test with full battery and very little use of the gas engine, mileage would appear to be higher, since carbon emissions would be minimal. A long highway drive that mostly uses the engine and sucks power out to charge the battery could even make mileage look worse. Its not likely that these two effects would cancel each other out to get to real world mileage.
For those with more time here's the URL for a restricted Google search on fuel economcy.gov about electric hybrids.
But it might be used for regeneration at any speed.
Let's keep the discussion here focused on the 400h and how the shakedown cruises are going!
That's even below the I4 Camry is it not??
The Toyota Corolla is an I4 compact sedan and its rated at 30/38 with the automatic and 32/41 with the stick.
Sorta missed their target didn't they??
Question #1 - I got hosed, didn't I.
Question #2 - They threw in "Xzilon" coating for the car for free. (900.00 value?) What does anyone know about Xzilon? It sure makes the paint look great.
I still have about a month or so before I get my promised SUV at MSRP. If they tried to do to me what they have done to you I would simply walk away and buy the RX 330 from a different dealer. I will have my Lexus 2000 RX 300 to sell since the trade-in will be insulting. Any ideas where I should sell this? The prices on E-Bay look very tempting at about 15K.
Second, you have recourse...
Contact Lexus and file a complaint against your dealership...Lexus does not allow dealers to 'upcharge' for vehicles...that is in violation of Lexus corporate policies and doesn't make Lexus look good! I would definitely complain as you've paid about 10k more than you should have (especially for a car that isn't going to do what it says anyway...that's another topic though!)...
Third...you don't need a coating on your car and I doubt they put one on...Lexus has excellent paint processes...I would think anything additional would be almost bad for the paint job...it needs to breath a bit...to prevent corrosion!
Take action...you have a right to do so!
Headless
That's why the hwy MPG vs city is inverse to a normal vehicle.
Cruising along the highway at a reasonably constant speed still requires the use of the battery with no ability to recharge except via the ICE.
I wonder if the hybrids need a third foot pedal, an extra one so the driver can "tell" the system that it's okay to coast down rapidly, as rapidly as possible using only the regeneration components.
Or maybe have the first inch of travel of the brake pedal reserved for this.
Can a Hybrid be a "performance" vehicle?
I am convinced that this vehicle brings the best of both worlds (great performance and surpringly good gas mileage).
Maybe with the batteries FULL of fuel at the beginning and totally empty at the end....
That one goes directly into the chad bucket.
As far as blue tooth...I have a treo 650 with Cingular...works like a charm...downloaded entire phone book (contacts list) and set up 1-touch numbers...very cool!
One thing...the treo 650 only uploads 'home' numbers, so if you need another number uploaded (mobile, work), you have to label it as home, do a single upload...etc...takes a bit of time, but not a big problem as the overall function is great...
While driving, if you get a call, the car answers...stereo mute automatically, as is navigation..can still view though...
Headless
Perhaps this is being too premature but at this point if someone asked me if they should buy one of these, I would advise them to wait until Lexus figures out some of this stuff. I am confident they eventually will but in the meantime my need to feel environmentally responsible isn't much being fulfilled. :mad:
What if, for some odd reason, some hybrids are 'tuned' differently so that the batteries run more than the gas motor...this would help mpg a lot, and probably not affect performance as electric motors produce more torque/acceleration anyway...
Anyone think that although we're driving the same vehicle, something's different between them?
All these cars came from Japan....is it possible that thinks were tweaked between the first several thousand that were sent here?
Headless
It appears to me as if the V6 is highly inefficient, or just straining too much to get the vehicle and all its weight going...
Those of you hitting 30 mpg, I simply cannot accept that if we're driving the same vehicle...it's not a question of some of us being 'non-believers'...it has to do with driving as closely as possible to what you're describing and still getting almost 8 mpg less...something's off with that...
I need to get this thing on the open road and drive it a few hundred miles at one time...next weekend I'm gonna take this thing and really open it up...try to loosen it up a little...I'll try different speeds on the highway and see what the mileage differences are...I'm just afraid I'll fall asleep if I drive at 55 mph...this car is pretty darn comfortable!
Headless
Headless
No, a 4-cylinder turbo engine won't add 250 lbs to a RDX. But if you think you will see the RDX come in at a similar weight to the CRV you're kidding yourself! First of all, the RDX is probably going to be based on the next generation CR-V. Right there you can bet the CRV will gain some weight. Second, the RD-X will have luxury market level equipment, which means more features, more safety features, will be quieter(which goes back to things like added sound insulation & thicker glass). And then you can watch the RDX pack on a few hundred additional pounds!
I just can't stop wondering if cyclone's car is accelerating to like 10 mph without gas whereas my gas motor kicks in at 5 mph...this would make huge changes to efficiency...or, when I hit the pedal lightly while at 30 mph, my gas motor goes on whereas cyclone's electric motor kicks in a bit...this again, a big difference...
How does on compare/contrast...if the 'timing' is off even a little, you could be talking a 20% difference easily...I don't think the battery would drain that much more...more performance comes from electric torque anyway, so more battery use for acceleration from stop would make sense!
Headless
During coastdown, partial throttle or none, the regeneration system will activate and begin to charge the batteries. It will also begin to charge the batteries if you have cruise control on and the car begins to overspeed, say on a downhill slope.
The exception to this is if you choose to use actual engine braking. In that case the engine remains coupled to the driveline to attain true compression braking. The regeneration "cycle" will still be working, but with the engine compression contributing substantially to the rate the vehicle slows not as much power will go into the batteries.
Actual BRAKING.
I can only guess, really. It is my impression that with very light pressure on the brake pedal most of the "braking" is the result of the drag created by the regenration effects. The heavier you depress the brake pedal the more actual frictional braking kicks in.
I do need to take some longer trips with this car to check it out more...I did about a 50 mile road test, but was not too happy...then again, I was around 75 mph for most of the trip so efficiency was compromised...argh!
Short trips do seem to not allow the engine/battery to warm up sufficiently...I guess it goes with the temperature thing too...the car likes warmer temperatures...this evidently applies to the car liking to be warmed up internally as well...
If you accelerate from a stop going down hill, the gas will kick in later than if you are going up hill..it depends on the need...
My RX will always have the gas motor on when I accelerate at speeds of 25 mph...no exceptions...I simply don't think the computer is programmed to allow for electric acceleration once moving 'that' fast...of course, when you take your foot off the gas, it'll coast and your mileage will go up....
If you can get to 10 mph with 'normal' acceleration (not grandma stuff), I'm jealous...that would mean your car is more efficient than mine...and I honestly think they're all the same!!! However, when accelerating from a stop, when I hit the pedal a little more than touching it, the gas will kick on...I wonder, being you drive a longer time, if the gas motor is desensitized a little as the car warms up...this would allow for more electric motor useage....hmmmmmm...better efficiency...
If not anything else, this is certainly an interesting $50,000 experiment...let's hope the end results (a few thousand miles down the road) reveal the ability to keep good mileage while having fun driving the car!
Good night for now...
Headless
player which I dont want and maybe the mark levinson audio.I dont think this makes a difference about tire brand and performance,being that neither one is a brand x.As far as the mpg I dont know why everybody is complaining.This is not a toyota prius,so if the average is mid 20's I think we all spent our well.
krellu
In mixed city/highway driving, a regular RX330 owner probably gets about 18MPG.