Lexus RX 400h and 450h

gagrice

what is so special about this algorithm?

Hopefully it is not the same code that causes the Prius to stop while cruising down the highway, for no known reason. This seems to be the biggest complaint about the Toyota hybrid system. Unexplained software bugs. Or could it be, that is the cause for all the delays in the RX400h delivery?

maxhonda99

Lexus has the GX470 with a V8 to fill the spot that a RX with a V8 could have had. One would think a RX with a V8(if the GX weren't around) would make up about 15% to 20% of RX sales.

"IMMHO V8 performance isn't required or necessary in a vehicle of the RX's weight and class. "

That's a stupid statement! A Lexus isn't necessary to begin with. Heck, you could make the argument that the 4-cylinder from the HIghlander is all that is necessary. If you haven't noticed a ton of other products in the RX's size class have V8s. The Mercedes ML, the BMW X5, Jeep Cherokee, Ford Explorer, Land Rover LR3.

"And think about how much better the fuel economy would be if the hybrid system used the Prius I4."

Another stupid statement! Let's go a step further. The fuel economy would be even better if they stuck a 1.0L 3-cylinder with HSD under the hood! Let's see the Prius as it is moves from 0-60 in about 10 seconds. That means a RX with the Prius' inline-4 and HSD would get to 60 in about 15-20 seconds! Yeah. That'll really sell to luxury car buyers at $45K a pop!

kenlex41

Did anyone see the report about Toyota and the Lexus RX and the Highlander hybrid on Headline news. I swear they stated that the SUV hybrids would get 40 MPG! That is the second report I saw where they stated 40 MPG. Has anyone else see/heard this?

lexrexblue

This is interesting. Other dealers have over 100. What dealer is it?

kenlex41

Just got a tip from the Highlander Hybrid thread (Thanks petl). The Harrier(RX) and Kluger(HL) Hybrids are available in Japan today. Check out www.toyota.jp. Just a couple things I noticed on the website.

-Awesome Colors (to bad they think americans are only into white and silver)

-I think I saw a start button on a picture of the RX

-What's up with the little side mirror. (doubt that will make it to the US)

-The site introducing them rocks. I only wish I could read Japanese!

frenchorne

"What's up with the little side mirror"

This is a very common feature in Japan. It is primarily used for improved visibility on the crowded "close quarters" streets. No chance it will come to US.

I hope the start button makes it to US.

markrogo

And the trolling of certain posters continues...

Go take your bashing somewhere else, OK? You bailed on waiting. Fine. We really have had enough. Go elsewhere.

I got a call from my dealer today, by the way, asking me about color preferences. They are going to be getting the cars in around a month -- precise delivery date to be determined -- and wanted to queue up the first cadre of buyers.

ptm123

If you look under the interior section you can actually click on were the button is and go to detail were you put in a cartridge. It is the same keyless setup as the Prius and shows keyless entry. This would be a fairly obvious feature and have not heard any one say it is included on the US version.

You are correct about the mirrors, if you go under optional equipment it also can come with the little stakes on the bumper which tell were the car ends. This again very common in Japan.

Was in Japan about 14 years, rode mostly in taxis and they drive at high speeds down little alleys and within inches of cars in heavy traffic. It was also interesting that even back then if the taxis came to a stop the driver would immediately turn the engine off. Probable shows why the Hybrid concept of turning the engine off when not in use is excepted there.

gagrice

Go elsewhere

Has it occured to you that those that have not praised the efforts of Toyota may just be disappointed in the direction they are taking. If someone is watching and participating on this forum they DO have an interest in the technology. Just because we don't bow down and pray to Toyota does not mean we are not hopeful they will come up with usable vehicles. To me it is crazy to even consider any vehicle without a test drive. How many miles have you put on an RX400h? It is your $55k to $60k and I respect your right to hand it over to Lexus. You should respect the rights of those that question the logic of such a purchase. If you want to only see praise for the Lexus go to the dealership, I am sure you will not hear anything negative.

jamese777

We will all soon know just how successful the RX400h will be. The proof will be in the proverbial sales figures pudding. Early adopters of all sorts of merchandise buy sight-unseen. How about we wait a month or two and see what actually happens? The RX400H is one of many directions that Toyota is taking. It is not the whole enchilada.
I have read every 400h review and article that I could find from those who have actually driven the car and I am particularly interested in the opinion of folks like LA Times Pulitzer Prize winning automotive writer Dan Neil. I linked his review to this forum about a month ago. Neil has forgotten more about cars than I will ever know.
There is plenty of reason to be excited about the 400h and I don't begrudge the folks on the waiting list their excitement one bit.

plee1

"It is your $55k to $60k and I respect your right to hand it over to Lexus."

I am curious from where the $55-$60K was derived. My dealer quoted an MSRP of $48,535 plus $650 destination. That's without options, but it already comes pretty much loaded.

I live in Washington, DC, which has exempted this car (among other hybrids) from its excise tax of 7% of FMV, which would come to $3,397. But even were I to include the excise tax, the price of $52,582 (exluding the federal deduction). That seems well below the $55-$60K range.

Speaking of the excise tax, for me at least this brings the price of the 400h much closer to that of the 330. The total tax savings (state and federal) are about $4,000.

larsb

Cutaway shot of rx400h at NY Auto Show..:

http://news.com.com/Photos+Hot+cars+in+the+city/2009-1041_3-5630619.html?tag=nefd.ac

yerth10

Wonderful.

The pict #7, a Hydrogen Powered Hummer is meant for Arnold S.

Its time for him to accept his guilt in promoting this vehicle and go for RX400h.

Hummer sales are also down by 1/3.

gagrice

I am curious from where the $55-$60K was derived.

I was guessing that most people that bought a car that expensive would want all the bells and whistles. The VP & VN package alone are $11k bringing the RX330 to MSRP $49,540. If the RX400h has the handling package it still leaves the NAV & premium audio at about $6700. In CA you will not get a break on the 7.75% sales tax plus high license fees. I see the car easily going out the door at $60k. In fact if the dealers in San Diego follow the Toyota & Honda lead they will add several thousand dealer markup. Plus who would buy one without longterm warranty for another 2 grand. I just don't believe a CA buyer will get away for under $60k. Even with the current $3000 discount on the RX330 you will be over $50k after tax & license.

plee1

"it still leaves the NAV & premium audio at about $6700"

My understanding is that the standard 400H comes with the navigation system. Specifically, I have been told by my dealer that the base includes navigation,18" alloy wheels, power rear door, power moonroof, leather interior, 6 disc cd, memory seats, roof rails, HID head lamps, floor mats.

I have been told that the available factory options are as follows:

Heated seats- $540
Mark Levinson audio- $980
Rear seat entertainment system- $1840

railroadjames

Much of today's market is much like it has always been. Some people choose to take the plunge where others say, "Don't go there! You'll regret it." I say, "Go for it!" "Reach for the gusto!" "Nothing ventured. Nothing gained." Of course, Do the homework! Always do that in spades. I did! It was not comfortable at first while sitting in the driver's seat looking at the, all together different controls and touch-screen system.
We are most fortunate in this age of rapid techno change but also fearful of it overwhelming us. Not at all surprised are we by it all. To some critics here at this and other Hybrid Forums the glass is 1/2 EMPTY while others see it 1/2 FULL. Always is and always will be.
Railroadjames(enjoy it all)

frenchorne

As previously reported, my dealer has confirmed they are initially building the RX 400h in 2 versions:

Option 1 has a Sticker Price of $52,545.00 including freight. It's fully loaded and the included options are:
EY (Rear seat entertainment)
HS ( Heated front seats)
ML (Mark Levinson)

Option 2 has a sticker price of $50,705.00 also including the freight but no EY option. So effectively there is only one real option beyond color and accessories. Obviously, taxes will be specific to the geography. My dealer in Michigan will not mark up above MSRP. The full list of included features is best detailed in this summary.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/presstxt/2006lexuskit/2006lex400h-2_s.pdf

Hope this helps.

pinzabu

Hi,

I just read your post on Edmunds about living in DC and not paying the excise takx of 7%.. Is this only Dc or does it include the beltway area, as I live in Alexandria, VA. Or how would I find that info out.

TIA.. Lydia

plee1

In December 2004 the DC council exempted hybrids from the excise tax. VA may have a similar provision, but that is only a guess.

tempusvn

It's only in DC and it hasn't gone into effect yet.

It also decreases the Registration Fee for Hybrids, and increases the Fee for >6000lb SUVs.

gagrice

In December 2004 the DC council exempted hybrids from the excise tax.

Sounds a lot like the tax benefits afforded those buying a Hummer in 2003. Why would a fat cat buying an RX400h need to get any tax break? How about the poor fellow that buys a Civic that gets 35 mpg? That is a better car for the environment than the RX400h. The Hybrids should be taxed higher to compensate for not paying their fair share of the road tax. Oregon and CA are going to implement fair road use taxation by the mile. Only a matter of time until it is nationwide.

plee1

"How about the poor fellow that buys a Civic that gets 35 mpg? That is a better car for the environment than the RX400h."

That depends on whether your only measure is fuel efficiency. The RX400h is SULEV rated.

"The Hybrids should be taxed higher to compensate for not paying their fair share of the road tax."

This cannot truly be a serious statement, since it obviously falls apart if considered more broadly (i.e. in the non-hybrid context). By this measure, we should all be driving Hummers.

ptm123

I thoroughly agree. Who do these hybrid owners think they are that should so socially irresponsible and then expect extra tax benefit that they law abiding Suburban drivers are not entitled to? As matter of fact I don't this fair road tax goes far enough. I think if you drive less than 15K miles a year you should be taxed a dollar a mile for those you didn't drive to make sure you pay for the nations highway infrastructure. Those truly criminal types who walk, bike or take mass transit should made to wear orange suits and pick up trash on the side of the road.

Thanks for another thoughtful reasoning for not buying a RX400h. Based on your arguments this will be the greatest automotive failure since the Edsel and 10 years from now mine will be such a rarity I can sell it to some sucker for a fortune. Then I can buy the Hummer I have always dreamed about.

gagrice

That depends on whether your only measure is fuel efficiency. The RX400h is SULEV rated.

I have not found the EPA rating for the RX400h. The RX330 is ULEV II rated.

I am serious about my statement about charging more tax on hybrids than comparable non-hybrids. hybrid drivers getting better mileage should not be given preferential treatment when it comes to maintaining the roads they use. Several states are in the process or have already adopted a means to make this a little more fair. Nebraska adds a $75 per year license assessment on hybrids to help with the roads.

This is not the thread to discuss this as we have an ongoing discussion on "taxation by the mile". excerpt:

Hybrids weigh MORE than non-hybrid versions of the same vehicles (batteries). This isn't really disputable. However, most hybrids get better gas mileage than their non-hybrid brethren (good for our conservation efforts, true). Unfortunately, this means that the hybrids will do more damage to the road surface than the non-hybrids for a given amount of operation while paying a smaller portion of the tax meant to provide for the maintenance of the roadways.

jerrywimer, "Taxation by the mile?" #268, 15 Mar 2005 11:15 am

ptm123

Again I agree with you, this is not the place to be discussing highway fair taxation which has nothing to do with the RX400h. Next time think before you send everyone down another rat hole.

gagrice

Next time think before you send everyone down another rat hole.

A bit of advice. Don't trade your Saab 9000 on the Lexus. I work with a fellow from Anchorage that traded his 9000 on an RX300. He kicks himself daily. The RX is not even close to the Saab 9000 in quality, ride or handling.

markrogo

yerth10

Looks like regular unleaded will do as mentioned in page 2 of that pdf document mentioned in post #857.

Also there is no shaft that transfers power to rear wheels : correct me if I am wrong here.

Its Awesome.

yerth10

RX300 has a reclining/sliding rear seat. Ask your friend to try it.

Toyota/Lexus vehicles have a very smooth ride and should be better than Saab 9000.

If he is still not happy, ask him to wait for another 3 weeks, he can trade in his RX300 for RX400h.

ptm123

Thanks for the advise, I doubt the Lexus dealership is interested a 1994 Saab 9000 with over 200K miles on it as a trade-in.

frenchorne

The RX 400h product information sheet shows the following emission designation,

SULEV (California) Tier 2 - Bin 3 (all other states)
Zero Evaporation

falconone

Funny post. This guy can only DREAM of an RX400h so he berates it to get it out of his mind. Yes, Gary, we know you want it. Keep up the good posts... it gives me a chuckle every morning.

gagrice

Gary, we know you want it. Keep up the good posts... it gives me a chuckle every morning.

Anything to make your day! Someone suggested my co-worker trade his RX300 for an RX400h. I seriously doubt he will do that. He wanted the ML500 when his wife & son talked him into the Lexus. I would say he will buy the Mercedes.

PS
The only thing we find attractive about Lexus is the Bamboo Pearl Paint. And they don't offer that in our choice of cars the LS430. I guess the money stays in the bank.

maxhonda99

"Anything to make your day! Someone suggested my co-worker trade his RX300 for an RX400h. I seriously doubt he will do that. He wanted the ML500 when his wife & son talked him into the Lexus. I would say he will buy the Mercedes. "

...ANd the point is?

falconone

I think Gary is getting tired of his suburban which is why he spends more time in this forum than with his family. Gary... get over it already...!!! The RX400h is going to be a HUGE success.

gagrice

The RX400h is going to be a HUGE success.

I'm sure if you buy one it will be a big success. Actually I am getting close to selling my Suburban. My neighbor keeps bugging me to sell it to him. Then I'll have to go out and buy some old beater PU truck to haul stuff around. If I don't spend too much on a truck I will have enough to buy a couple gallons of gas to stash for the "Day of Rationing".

I know if I abandoned the RX400 thread you guys would all join hands singing "Kumbaya"

rfruth

Don't go Gary, your put-downs of Lexus and hybrids in general keep things lively but the 15 deaths in Texas City mean more to me than penny pinching so the 400h makes more sense than ever.

wco81

For $1800+, they better have a Blu-Ray drive in that sucker.

Right rogo?

yerth10

The Motors in RX400h has been named as
MG-1 : Start/Stop Function
MG-2 : Powering the Front Wheels
MG-R : Powering the Rear Wheels

People will typically think that MG-1 (Front) and MG-2 (Rear).

Instead they could have named it as
MG-0 : Start/Stop Function (Small activity)
MG-1 : Powering the Front Wheels (Primary activity)
MG-2 : Powering the Rear Wheels (Secondary activity)

Later if they fit a Motor in each wheel, it will become
MG-1 : Left-Front
MG-2 : Left-Rear
MG-3 : Right-Front
MG-4 : Right-Rear

May be MG-5 for towing a trailer
May be MG-6 for driving a propeller while in amphibian mode in water.

brightness04

Toyota/Lexus vehicles have a very smooth ride and should be better than Saab 9000.

For what it's worth, I have an '04 Toyota Highlander Limited (with the 3.3 liter) and an '01 Saab 9-5 wagon (with the same 2.3 turbo inheritted from 9000, but possibly with balance shafts added). The 9-5 is quieter at highway cruise speed; OTOH, the Highlander is quieter under full throtle.

rxexpert

Google search lexus rx400h

cyclone4

The following paragraph came from the London Sunday Times in its review of the RX400h. If one were to go by gagrice's posts, the RX400h is worthless away from the main roads. This totally contradicts that notion.

"Off-road, the Lexus is just as impressive. It cruised easily on the gravel roads that snake along the sides of the massive Mauna Loa mountain. On the loose gravel the RX400h performed well, with onboard computers calculating precisely how much torque to apportion to the front or rear wheels, depending on the grip available. In normal conditions the Lexus reverts to front-wheel drive only in order to conserve fuel".

rxexpert

Great website on Rx400h specs.AND AVAILABILITY >Thanks for the tip.

markrogo

I'm missing the secret code here....

rxexpert

Go to Google (the search engine} and put in search phrase "Lexus Hybrid" and it shows dealers with current availability and no wait lists...

wwest

In the circumstances described even ANY 2WD would clearly suffice.

"loose gravel" "gravel roads"

NO ONE is pretending that the RX series is good for "sports" off-roading. The doubts some are expressing have to do with the ability to be used in more typical adverse roadbed conditions.

This matter of one of the hybrid motors possibly overheated is probably mute. The ABS pumpmotor will time out after 45 to 60 seconds of AWD functionality and shut down the AWD capability first anyway.

Assuming the RX400h even comes equipped with the side to side torque apportioning system at all.

gagrice

Lexus, a Toyota division, hasn't set pricing yet but the 400h is comparable to a Lexus RX 330, which lists for around $36,000. Hybrids typically run from $2,000-$4,000 more than their gas-only siblings.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5941899/

The RX 400h, a hybrid for the highfalutin', is destined to become one of the must-have status symbols for 2005. Until recently, hybrid-loving celebrities such as Leonardo DiCaprio and Steven Spielberg have been forced to tool around in entry-level hybrids such as the Toyota Prius. "There are people with disposable incomes who want to make a statement that they are socially involved, but they want to do it without any sacrifice,"

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/0502/16/F01-91167.htm

If the RX400h sells for $50k with NAV that would compare to the RX330 with NAV that can be bought for $37k. $13k is cheap to look Green. A bit more than the $2-$4k premium originally projected.

maxhonda99

Duh...if you do the math you would figure out the MSRP difference is less than $4K MSRP in comparable trim.

That means:
AWD RX330, with HIDs, NAV, premium package.

Build it on the Lexus website, it comes out to $45K and change.

The RX400h, which comes with these features, is going to start at $48-$49K with the only options being rear seat DVD player and Mark Levinson.

Yes, we know you hate the RX400h. Move on.

cyclone4

I would be lying if I said that your posts do not annoy me. Why don't you compare apples with apples? Please respond to the maxhonda99 post which does indeed compare apples with apples. How are you going to live with yourself after the RX400h becomes a smashing success?

gagrice

AWD RX330, with HIDs, NAV, premium package.

TMV on Edmund's $40,339 Includes options PT & NV HID, Moonroof, NAV a full $9000 less than comparably equipped RX400h. That price is $3k under MSRP, with a little arm twisting they would drop another 2 grand.