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Lexus RX 400h and 450h

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Comments

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    robertsmx,

    I do not have the time to look at historic posts!
    I just respond to the immediate posts. Wish I had more time! Unlike you I do not have a day off.

    Happy Thanksgiving.
    Our Thanksgiving was last month
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Thats alright. But having an understanding of the point being discussed would always help.

    Unfortunately, I've to work today!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    I was browsing through the sales figures and found that the RX300 series is far and away Lexus's biggest seller. They sold almost as many RX300 vehicles this year as all the other Lexus models combined. They have a high powered wealthy audience for the RX and that is the main reason they will be able to sell them for $52k.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    My logic follows the same sequence as with other hybrids. You can EASILY get a nicely equipped RX330 with a substantial discount and have spent around 42k (maybe less). The hybrid version will be sold at MSRP (maybe a bit north). How can that 10k premium be recaptured? The A6 is a great value compared to other cars in that segment. Comparing that car to an RX330 would be foolish. Anyway... off topic but I did get my Cooper S and I still can't get this silly grin off my face!
  • In terms of functionality, RX330 is probably closer to Audi Allroad than to A6. A6 has precious little ground clearance. Depending on real performance when the vehicle becomes available, Lexus is probably thinking of marketting the Hybrid part as a V8 for marketting purpose (a la A6 4.2 instead of 2.7T); hence the 400H nomenclature. Audi is charging $7k for the "upgrade." Anyhow, I agree, $52k is still quite steep, especially considering that a hybrid Accord (presumably Camry soon as well) can be had for less than 30k when the initial craze passes.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    has already passed, just that Lexus won't know it until it's confirmed with total lack of substantive RX400h sales.

    Not enough sales to justify bringing it to market.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Audi A6 can run into $59K price range, while you can find a nicely rounded (as in fully loaded) A6 at $51K as well. I assume you get something for the additional premium, don't you? Same with RX330 versus RX400h.

    It is not that I'm "moved" by RX400h at the moment, just that I see more arguments on premium that hybrid option adds while people (and magazines) don't seem to worry about the same in conventional set up.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    Not enough sales to justify bringing it to market.

    I agree, people that can easily afford a $52k car are more apt to want their monies worth than the guy that has to scrimp to make the lease or payments. The difference in mileage and emissions will not justify a $10k premium or even a $7k premium. The wealthy did not get that way by wasting money. The nuevo dot.com rich will soon be back to rags, if they buy into worthless ventures.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Yes, for that extra $10k one could probably buy an RX330, swap in an I4 equipped with the Miller Cycle SC (one up on the HP robbing Atkinson Cycle)with manual transmssion for fuel economy equal to the RX400h, and more than adequate acceleration performance for those times that conservative drivers (non "boy-racers") feel the need.

    And in the AWD you would still have a fairly decent level of engine torque to the rear versus the RX400h's puney amount.

    Wonder just what it would cost to have someone manufacture a custom ring and pinion for the RX's rear differential so that it is really rear torque biased?
  • Where did you guys get that from?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    Lexus, though, is not at all conflicted about how to promote its $52,000 RX 400h. Its "Lexus to the Power of H" ad campaign debuting in April is all about the unexpected power of its hybrid.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6480057/site/newsweek/
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I read in Motor Trend that it is now April 2006 for release. Is that a misprint?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    April 2006 is probably a misprint. Toyota just announced in mid November(I think) that the RX400h will be introduced April 15, 2005.
  • I think it's $42,000 for basic MSRP. Lexus won't disappoint you.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    If Lexus has come to the realization that the RX400h's market share will be limited to leadfoots and boy-racers then the only way to come close to ROI is to raise the price inordinately.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    I think it's $42,000 for basic MSRP. Lexus won't disappoint you.

    In San Diego an RX330 with decent equipment has a
    MSRP of $49,290. So the $52k for the RX400h does not seem that big of a premium to me. I imagine with a decent handling package, sound system and NAV, you will be over $60k.

    Lexus has disappointed me. I think they have built some of the ugliest cars in recent years. My wife will not consider any of the new ones. She hangs on to the very classy 1990 LS400. That car and the early SC300/400s were beautiful cars. Lexus has gone down hill. Right today we would buy an E320 over any of the cars Lexus builds.
  • yerth10yerth10 Posts: 428
    gagrice compares RX330 with Benz E-320.
    Look again at the features

    Front Head Room: 39.3 in. Front Hip Room: 55.6 in.
    Front Shoulder Room: 57.9 in. Rear Head Room: 38.6 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room: 57.1 in. Rear Hip Room: 55.1 in.
    Front Leg Room: 42.5 in. Rear Leg Room: 36.4 in.
    Luggage Capacity: 31.9 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 85 cu. ft.

    Maximum Payload: 1180 lbs.
    Maximum Towing Capacity: 2000 lbs.
    ***

    Front Head Room: 37.4 in. Front Hip Room: 52.4 in.
    Front Shoulder Room: 56.4 in. Rear Head Room: 37.7 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room: 56.1 in. Rear Hip Room: 53.8 in.
    Front Leg Room: 41.9 in. Rear Leg Room: 35.6 in.
    Luggage Capacity: 15.9 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 16 cu. ft.

    Lexus has far more space than a Benz Sedan.
    And you can fold / recline the rear seat in RX330 giving more comfort to 3 back seat passengers which is not available in E-320 sedan.

    No wonder these SUV/CUV sales are climbing and Toyota brings the hybrid version in 5-Door vehicles like Prius, Highlander, RX400, Sienna, etc.

    The base price of RX330 is 37K and with hybrid it should come to somewhere between 40 - 42 K.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    RX400h is likely to be equipped better than RX330, to start with it will already have AWD. And being a full hybrid system, I suspect the additional cost of hybrid will be about $7-8K. So, upper-40s is a reasonable guess for a well equipped RX400h. $52K may be a "topped out" trim.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Can you really say that 270HP at the front and a measly 30HP at the rear constitutes AWD??

    Why bother?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    So, upper-40s is a reasonable guess for a well equipped RX400h. $52K may be a "topped out" trim.

    I would not head to your Lexus dealer with that in mind. I show the base RX330 AWD with NAV Audio package ($6790) and Performance Package ($4675) to have a MSRP of $49,290 in San Diego. There are many other options that will take the RX330 close to $55 grand. If they sell the RX400h with NAV and handling for $52k it will be a good deal.

    That does not account for AWD operation, will it handle on snow and Ice with that configuration? I kind of agree with wwest on that aspect. I would let someone else do the testing.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Their lineup is quite boring, but I'd steer clear of the E320. That is unless you want to have a VERY intimate relationship with your Mercedes service advisor. I've had three relatively recent Mercedes and I would not buy again.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Probably just to help it out of situations where some rear thrust is needed. I bet it will be quite nice in snow.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    The effectiveness of AWD system will be situational. Under full throttle acceleration, the rear wheels will have a small fraction of power so they will play little role in the overall picture. However, under part throttle/lower speeds/cruising, the power differential between front and rear may not be a lot. In fact, owing to characteristics of electric motor compared to ICE, the available 30 HP at the rear wheels may be more than whatever ICE provides to the front wheel.
  • I thought it was 210 to the front and 75HP to the rear, with a combined simultaneous peak of about 270HP. Anyhow, even 30HP is tremendous amount of force put to the pavement when the RPM is so low at the wheel (only 360rpm or so at 30mph); using the rule of 5454 (torque x rpm / 5454 = horsepower), 30hp is quite capable to providing more than 1/3g accelearation (from rear wheels alone, or 2/3g from all wheels if the fronts do their share equally) at speads below 10mph, in other words spinning/chirping the wheels on launch. 2/3g acclearation is tremendous performance; it's like someone hitting your back with 100-150lb force depending on your weight.

    In a conventional ICE mechanical only vehicle, the engine does not delivery much power at low RPM launch. Clutch-dumping launches spend most of the engine power on shredding the clutch and transmission during the first few tire rotations. Hopefully the electrical drive is much more efficient for lauches because electrical motors themselves have constant torque line from zero RPM.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    ABS prevents the wheels from locking so you can still have stearing control. Primary drive at the front requires Trac, braking/dethrottling, to prevent loss of stearing control due to torque application.

    RWD alleviates the problem.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    But creates its own, hence "the attack of the vehicle control systems".
  • Keep in mind that the Federal government has extended the "Clean-Fuel" vehicle tax deduction of $2000 through the end of 2005.

     

    This will be available to purchasers of the RX400H and will help offset the "hybrid" premium over the ordinary RX330
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,146
    This will be available to purchasers of the RX400H and will help offset the "hybrid" premium over the ordinary RX330

     

    Welcome to the forum. The IRS has not made an announcement on the upcoming RX400h? The auto companies have to apply for their vehicle to be included. Here is a link to the current vehicles covered under that tax deduction. Remember if you are in the highest 37% bracket you will save $740. Not much on a $52k vehicle.

     

    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=104549,00.html
  • tommtomm Posts: 31
    What are u talking about???
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