Got a Quick, Technical Question?

hpmctorque

The car is my wife's '07 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0T automatic with 52,000 miles. It's her daily driver, but I drive it when we go out together. It's been a pleasure to drive, and we enjoy owning it, except for the problem mentioned below. The few other issues were covered under the warranty, which has now expired. The problem described below is also covered under the warranty because I reported it to the dealer while the car was still covered by the warranty.

The issue: I believe it uses more oil under certain circumstances than it should. I'll explain. On a long driving trip last summer, 98% highway at cruising speeds of 65 - 80 mph, oil consumption was normal. It used about one quart, or maybe slightly more, during the entire trip. The problem is in low speed urban and suburban driving, where the typical distance travelled is 4-8 miles per trip. Under these conditions, oil consumption is generally one quart approximately every 1,000-1,200 miles. The oil used is Mobil 1, 0-40, as recommended by Audi for this engine.

Our driving style is what could be described as "responsible adult" driving. In other words, we're gentle on the drivetrain and brakes in urban/suburban driving, which is what most of our driving consists of. Our highway driving style is normal most of the time, spirited some times, but never overly aggressive or abusive.

I've had the car to the dealer several time now, and each time they run tests, with no verdict so far. However, the comments I'm getting suggests that they'll probably find the car to be "within spec." This outcome wouldn't please us, because it would essentially be a "kick the can down the road" solution, but I don't want to pre-judge what the ourcome will be.

I know Audi has had numerous excessive oil consumption complaints with this engine. Any suggestions on what to do?

One more thing. A few days ago, after the car had been driven locally for maybe three weeks by my wife, I accelerated from an off ramp onto a highway, and depressed the accelerator abtu 3/4 of the way down to merge. I noticed a billow of white smoke from my rear view mirror, which i hadn't noticed before. Maybe it was happening under similar circumstances, and I just hadn't noticed it. I let up on the accelerator, then floored it, from about 65-80 mph, and the same thing happened. After driving to a meeting about 12 miles from home, the car didn't do this on the return trip, or, if it emitted white smoke, it was muh less visible than on my drive to my meeting. Any explanations for this phenomenom?

Any comments regarding the oil consumption I've described?

srs_49

Isn't that typical of leaking valve stem seals? When you close the accelerator, the vacuum increases and sucks oil past the seals. Then when you punch it again, the oil is burned (?) and sent out the exhaust.

Has it always used oil like this, or is this something that started recently?

burdawg

Is Mobil 1 0-40 the only oil they recommend under all conditions? If you live in a warmer climate do they recommend a higher initial viscosity oil? I don't think that your oil consumption is way out for a small performance engine, but if you're in a warm climate you may improve it some by using a different grade. Mobil 1 is real "slippery" like most synthetics, and can get past valve stem seals real easy.

qbrozen

Interesting about Mobil 1. On my '07 GTI, the oil cap even says Castrol on it. When I first changed the oil after purchasing the car with 53k miles, I used Quakerstate sythetic. I was using quite a bit of oil. I was also noticing oil on the oil filler cap everytime I opened the hood.

Turns out this is a common symptom of a clogged PCV system, which is inevitable with this engine. So I upgraded the PCV system to an aftermarket solution. I was still using some oil. I then changed the oil again and used Castrol Syntec 5w-30. It didn't use any perceptible amount for the next 3k miles. Now at about 5k miles since the oil change, it was right around a half quart low. I topped it off and now its due for another change anyway.

euphonium

oil consumption is generally one quart approximately every 1,000-1,200 miles.

Considering the engine size, c.i., I agree with the dealer. Move on.

samm43

The exhaust smoke (or coolant steam) is not normal for a car with only 52k miles unless it has been overheated at some point in its relatively short life. Unlikely, although possible if driven very far after a plastic bag has blown up off the highway onto the rad.

Sam

hpmctorque

Thanks for your response.

In answer to your question, the car had about 36,500 miles on it when we bought it, in March 2010. I noticed some oil consumption soon after we bought it, but in June we took this 6,000 mile vacation trip, and it used about 1 - 1 1/4 quarts during that entire trip. I was relieved, but after that road trip, in more normal driving, is when it started using what I feel is an excessive amount of oil.

hpmctorque

Thanks for your response.

I don't know whether Mobil 1 0-40 is the only oil Audi recommends under all conditions, but that's what the dealer uses. Will check this further, but I know that Audi specifies synthetic oil.

colin_l

This is an important detail. Unless it is cold outside or the engine is cold, there should not be any white smoke.

White smoke is not oil. It is coolant. I understand that your engine consumes some ~1 quart per thousand miles.

But as I said, unless you are driving in 30 degrees or below, or the engine hasn't reached normal operating temperature, you should not see any white smoke from the exhaust no matter how hard you accelerate.

hpmctorque

Thanks for your feedback. The car has been at the dealer for two days. If they tell me it's within spec when I get it back, I'll ask about the PCV system.

Which aftermarket PCV system did you buy?

hpmctorque

By "move on" do you mean live with it because that's what one should expect with this engine size, or do you mean trade it for something with bigger displacement?

hpmctorque

This car has never overheated, so, yeah, I agree that this amount of consumption seems excessive at this mileage.

scanman1

The dealer do state that a quart per 1000 mi is acceptable, or between oil changes. In my almost 40 yrs exp I have seen more (lots) not use oil between changes. So I believe their is a problem, valve guide seals, oil ring or just rings in general could cause this problem ,along with the PCV system. Also high speed interstate driving will definitely use more oil, high speed is any thing over 80 mph and quick take offs any type of fast acceleration. I believe 1 quart between changes is a more acceptable option. Still its not normal for even this. The dealer is not wanting to fix, because the customer is most likely causing this consumption problem him or herself from high speed driving or quick take offs. I would experiment with different grades of oil and find the best for your problem, it may take awhile to come up with the proper combination. I would start with 5-20w synthetic either blended or fully synthetic and lay off the accelerator for this period. I have seen this problem occur when customers change grades from the original. I would stay away from any additives unless Audi has a product made by Audi. Also find a shop that has a good Induction cleaning system and have this service done, any blockage of air entering your engine will cause more of a suction on the block which would in turn pull oil thru the rings and make sure the pcv (positive crankcase ventalation) system is operating properly, buy only Audi PCV valves or hose assembles if needed. Scanman ty PS during this period do not let anyone else drive the car especially younger folk.

bolivar

I know absolutely nothing about your car. If you say you have read about excessive oil consumption, what is the reason others have given? If the motor is a known oil eater, then that's what you have.

I'm a Cadillac owner, and have read a lot and experienced some also with the Northstar motor, also a known oil user. Its problem is caused by pokie, around town driving and even non-agressive highway driving will carbon up the rings causing them to stick. Then you get blow by and oil use. The solution - beat the crap out of it a few times. No need to start from a dead stop, but get it rolling and keep it floored thru 3 upshifts. You are going to be going 80mph+. Then let up and let it slow down, without braking. Do this 3 or 4 times. You should expect to see BLACK smoke coming out as you break carbon out of the cylinders. I moved a 95 Concours Deville from about a quart in 600 miles to a more reasonable quart in a couple thousand miles. The motor also had a 'carbon knock', where the built up carbon in the piston was hitting the top of the head and 'ticking', just like a small block Chevy with a sticking valve lifter. Running it to the redline thru the gears eliminated the carbon knock and significantly reduced the oil usage.

Your white smoke bothers me. This is a indication of water vapor, if anything. Are you keeping a check on the coolant? If the coolant is low, and/or you have added coolant in the past, I would worry about a blown head gasket, with coolant and oil being pulled into the cylindar and being burned.

Blown headgaskets symptoms vary on different motors. Northstars also blow headgaskets, but coolant never gets into the oil, or oil into anything - the cylinder hot gasses are pushed into the coolant passage, and the engine overheats, massively.

On a 94 Ranger pickup with the 4 liter motor, I also got quick excessive oil usage. So much it turned on the 'Check Oil' light, and I was over a quart low. This motor would loosen up the intake bolts and allow oil to be pulled from an oil passage into the intake and burned with the air coming in. Found a writeup on this. Got the little 8 (or 9) mm socket and various extensions and flex arms and tightened all of the bolts around the top of the intake. This instantly cured the problem and the motor went back to burning less than a half quart between 4,000 mile oil changes.

If there are Audi forums here on Edmunds start search for oil burning posts and/or post there about your problems. Google for other Audi forum sites on the internet and look for oil burning for your motor. If it's a known problem, people are complaining about it on the internet.

And, someone might also have the solution for the problem posted.....

Good luck.

kiawah

The white puff of smoke, as suggested by others, is typically indicative of a blown head gasket, and is a far more serious problem than your oil consumption. water coolant getting into the piston cylinder area, and or seeping down into the oil will ruin your engine. It also will vary likely ruin your catalytic converter. Water and metal don't place nice together.

If this has been going on a while, it may have deteriorated the metal on some of your cylinder or engine bearing surfaces, and actually be the cause of your secondary problem oil consumption as the rings can no longer seal against the rough cylinder surface.

qbrozen

Another question: what does your temp gauge read after you've been driving for a while? Is it pointing exactly towards the top of the gauge? If it is lower than that, it probably means you have a thermostat that is stuck open. This will prevent the car from ever getting up to ideal operating temp, which will mean it continues spewing vapor from the exhaust. This would especially be noticeable when stopped.

Here is the PCV revamp I purchased and installed.

Mr_Shiftright

I'd definitely investigate the PCV system on this car, as well as being sure to install a factory oil filter. Excessive crankcase pressure could certainly affect oil consumption and Audis don't like certain kinds of oil filters for some bizarre reason.

hpmctorque

I brought the car to the dealer early Wednesday morning, and got a message on my phone late Friday afternoon that they needed to keep it over the weekend. No details, though. They gave us a new Q5 3.2 as a loaner, so we're not hurting for transportation.

I'll ask about the PCV system when I talk with them. Thanks.

All maintenance and repairs have been done by the Audi dealer, since the car has been under warranty. Therefore, I assume they used Audi filters.

One thing I don't like about dealer service departments is that you generally can't talk directly to the person who works on your car. You go through a service advisor, who can spin what was wrong, and how it was repaired. Their answers are often sanitized through legal protective and make-the-dealer-look-good filters. Also, follow-up questions frequently get a "that's a good question; I'll check and get back to you on that" type of response. Oh, one more thing is that each time you bring your car in, a different person works on it. The service advisor may not change, but the mechanic technician keeps changing. That's how dealerships operate these days. That's one more reason for finding a good independent mechanic who specializes in your brand.

euphonium

mean live with it because that's what one should expect with this engine

hpmctorque

Thanks for clarifying. You're implying that it's a design problem. It may be, but from what I can tell some 2.0T's burn a lot of oil while others don't.

euphonium

Some are used and some are abused. Gentle application of the accelerator and brakes may be a factor.

wojo65

I just pulled out of a lot , 2 blocks later I heard a pop sound. Truck lost its driveability. Is it tranny or transfer case? Tranny has never slipped.

Mr_Shiftright

So no ugly noises when you rev it up, no oil on the ground, everything looks normal but NO GO?

Hmmm....if that's the case, then it must be an internal transmission bust-up of some kind, unless your driveshaft is laying on the ground

On a long shot, you can check to see that your shifter linkages are still connected.

hpmctorque

Background: I have a '88 car with the original refrigerant. The A/C still blows cold, but not quite as cold as when new. From what I know it doesn't leak, but being 23 years old, it needs to be topped off. Despite the high cost of R-12, it would be less expensive to top the system off with R-12 than to convert to R-134, at this point. The problem is finding R-12, which I believe is only available through professionals now.

Question: Where can I buy R-12 from a reputable source, preferably in the Washington, DC metro area. It's available on Ebay, but how can I be sure it's truly R-12?

Mr_Shiftright

Ebay? You mean that crap they call "Hot Shot" or "DuraCool?" Don't ever use that stuff.

You might try Craigslist in your area but sometimes they show very silly prices. Unless you have the right equipment, I'd just bite the bullet and have the pros do it for you.

hpmctorque

Thanks for the feedback. I'm leery of the stuff on Ebay, and will try Craigslist.

As for who will install it if I find some R-12, I know of a professional garage that has the right equipment, but has been out of R-12 for some time. They'll top off the A/C on my 300ZX if I bring them the R-12.

Mr_Shiftright

that's a good idea. Unlike the new stuff, R12 is not "ozone safe".

hpmctorque

Regarding your earlier suggestion about sourcing R-12 on Craigslist, would you trust that a can that's labeled R-12 is really that, and not some cheaper substitute?

Mr_Shiftright

You know, on craigslist you have to just check people out--how they talk, what they say. I was thinking that some of the R12 I saw on CL was actually factory labeled old cans of the stuff.

But you mean an old unmarked container? No way. Some of these clowns actually put propane in there! Yikes!

imidazol97

Does this mean the one can of R12 in my garage storage cabinet is worth _money_?

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, it is. 12 oz can? That's $20 bucks I'd say.

hpmctorque

The pictures of the cans I saw advertised on Cl did indeed say R-12, but I suppose a scam artist could put anything, such as propane, in a can that's labeled R-12. Maybe that's improbable, however.

hpmctorque

If you're interested in selling your can of R-12 I'd be interested in buying it.

burdawg

In case anyone's interested California has a new "core charge" on cans of R134. $10 per 12oz can, (yes, a core charge on a can) refundable if the can is returned empty within 90 days.
From here on out I'll buy R134 via Ebay or in Arizona and avoid the nanny state stuff.
Technically you need a license to buy R12, but for online purchases it's mostly the honor system.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I just hope everyone works safely (goggles please) and that caution is taken to not overcharge the AC system--a common error leading to unfortunate consequences.

srs_49

I think the licensing procedures are pretty lax - at least they are here in Maryland.

Years ago when they first started phasing out R-12 and R-22, a co-worker got an HVAC license on-line by taking a simple test. He did this solely so he could then buy R-12 refrigerant in the 20 lb green containers, which kept us all supplied for many years after.

burdawg

I did the same thing, took a short online course and a test.

hpmctorque

Do you, by chance, know of any sources for R-12 in MD?

srs_49

Sorry, no. All my vehicles, at least those with working AC, use R-134.

0patience

I keep a small supply of R-12 for some of my customer's older vehicles and commercial trucks. There are a few places you can buy R-12 online, but you need to have the A/C certification to purchase it.
As was stated, you can go to a few places online to get the certification for about $20-$30 and most of them are open book tests. So it wouldn't take much.

My personal opinion on it, is that the certifications are really kind of a farce.

hpmctorque

I'm looking for a certified garage that does A/C work to top off my system, but I'm ~2,200 miles from you.

walt714

The anti lock dash light came on - code c0265 - brakes work fine - is there a fuse that I can pull or any other way to turn off the ABS system and the light?

colin_l

When that lamp is illuminated, your ABS is already defeated. It is non-operable due to a failed sensor, fuse, or controller.

Fortunately your brakes do still work, and being a 2001 vintage your Suburban was unlikely to have benefitted from dynamic brake force distribution or stability management, anyway. (Both of those don't work without ABS.)

You cannot turn off the light because that comes from the PCM (computer), not the ABS specifically. If this is a daily driver, I'd suggest that you fix the ABS. If it's a partial use vehicle, I can understand not bothering.

sniadecki

sniadecki

I have a 96 Geo Traker 4 cylinder 4 dr 4x4 Trans. auto miliage 112625. I have engine check light on and sometimes it is mulitiple misfire and sometimes it is a misfire in cylinder one. I have a Wire that goes to the starter to the cylinoid that goes to the ignition: This wire is bad because the plastic end was burned and we replaced that one end and it cleared up and after a while after going over bumps it started cutting out again and then yesterday i notice fuel leaking off bumper could you tell me about what might be going on.

ssmith62m

I have a 1975 dodge 4x4 model W100, 8 cyl 5.2 liter. I need to know how to replace the ignition switch on it. Can anyone help me out with this question. Thank you

Mr_Shiftright

Multiple issues, sounds like. If your engine cuts out over bumps you definitely have some funky wiring to deal with. Any time the engine cuts out, that will most likely throw a misfire code. The misfire code is very generic and could refer to any cylinder, and could be either spark or fuel related. As for the fuel leak, I certainly would not drive the car until that is located If it's leaking that badly, shouldn't be hard to spot that one.

Sometimes you can trace a bad wire by starting the engine, clearing the code and then start jiggling various wires (be careful not to touch the spark plug leads unless you have insulated pliers) ---if the light goes on, or the engine stumbles, you might have your culprit.

Kirstie_H

A reporter is interested in interviewing a California (Southland) individual who recently decided to do routine maintenance or basic car repairs on their own to save money in the struggling economy. If you would like to comment on your experience, please reply to pr@edmunds.com with your name and daytime phone number by 5pm Pacific, Wednesday, August 17, 2011.

george169

The needle of my gas meter was close to the red line, so I added 20 liters of gas in an Esso station. After I started the engine, I noticed that the low fuel indicator is on and the gas meter is no longer working.

Mr_Shiftright

Sounds like the fuel gauge sending unit in the gas tank is stuck--this might have happened because it went to an extreme position. Or a sensor for the float(s) might have gone bad. I think you have two sending units, located under two small hatches when you remove the second seat.