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Comments
But for those you would like a good overview of automotive AC in understandable terms, here's a great site:
http://innerauto.com/Automotive_Systems/A~c_Heat_System/
Thanks for bringing up this subject, though. It's important that the forum remain useful to as many people as possible.
Owners of the same car are going to have widely different experiences. I learned this from working with Mercedes Benz. I would get one letter of glowing praise and another of grave disappointment, from two identical cars with VIN #s perhaps only a few 100 apart! Go figure, hah?
http://www.midwestcarclub.com/mazda/manual/esicont/en/srvc/html/B3E071001038W04.html
If yours is not doing this, it is defective. Get it fixed one way or another. You can start by printing the Service Manual page, showing it to your service writer and asking if he would like to challenge it. If he does, take your dealership to court for breach of the Magnuson-Moss Breach of Warranty Act.
Meade
Please refer to past posts if you want to read all about the AC issues with the Mazda3 UNLESS you have new TSBs or latest factory updates.
If there is no new data from NEW members to the forum, or NEW factory updates, I'm going to remove all AC posts automatically WITHOUT NOTICE so that the flow of forum traffic can move on to bigger and brighter (and cooler) horizons.
Let's here from some of you "watchers", too. Please accept my invitation to participate.
thanks!
Host
Meade
I would get one letter of glowing praise and another of grave disappointment, from two identical cars with VIN #s perhaps only a few 100 apart!
Ever wonder why?
There is a very good chance it is because of variations in the parts used to build the two cars - or because of the random variations in the MB's production process.
This is not just speculation on my part either - these are generally accepted principals - developed by Dr. W. Edwards Deming - considered by most to be the father of statistical process control.
Just a side note - Deming was also known for this quote "Any two people have different ideas of what is important" Can't get through any course on statistical process control without learning about Deming - he is largely credited with helping turn Japan from a low quality manufacturer of junky trinkets into one of the worlds leading manufacturer of quality products.
Your solution to "raise hell" because of my Mazda3's quality problem (won't be specific as there is a ban on this topic) is a good one I'm sure - but maybe you could give me a little bit more detail on just how best to do that. I have tried just about every thing I can think of (legal things anyway) - short of a law suite - and I don't really want to do that.
I understand why a host would step in and stop people from personal attacks - been in a few of those - (always self defense BTW - LOL) - but never seen a host step in and stop posts because they are opinions or speculation - or because there are too many posts about one topic. But if that is the new rule I will try and follow it. Wouldn't want to start any trouble.
Sure is quiet in here - I wonder why?
I have been following this thread for some time but I am not sure I understand all that you have done to follow-up with Mazda.
Have you:
1. recorded all of your trips to the dealership including date / persons involved / diagnosis records / action taken or not in chronological order - factual
2. Are you on written record with the dealership regarding your problem - meaning you dis-agree with their diagnosis
3. Have you requested in writing a session with the regional Mazda service manager after going thru management at the dealership
4. Your position should be stated as you see it - what do you want ? be specific . If you want an AC system with a center vent temp of x degrees at y ambient degrees then say this. Use the curve Meade sent as a ref
5. Your system should be able to operate at the "as new" end of the temp curve not the " okay for an old system" end of the curve
6. Make sure your written record is mailed and received by the appropriate parties - certified if necessary
Maybe you have done all of this already - but it may be necessary to keep nothing up. Each time you send a letter include your chronlogical record. You will hit a nerve ( other than yours) in time.
Good luck to you and any other 3 owners with a so-so AC system. I hope your next message on AC is good news.
mike
Regarding your question, you should consult an attorney who specializes in Lemon Law litigation/mediation, etc., and start the process while you still fall within the parameters of the law and while you still qualify. Lemon Law legislation was specifically written and voted into law to protect people who have a problem or problems with a new car that allegedly cannot be satisfactorily repaired after a certain number of tries and a certain time period.
Rules vary state by state, that's why you need a specialist from your state to be sure you're getting the right info.
Good luck solving your problem!
MrShiftright
Host
Rules vary state by state, that's why you need a specialist from your state to be sure you're getting the right info.
Good luck solving your problem!
MrShiftright
Host
i agree... with all due respect if he applied as much effort to the lemon law as he does to this board, the sky is the limit. i am glad you intervened in this mr. shiftrightbrother. i appreciate the forum.
Ciao.
The Sandman
I have stated this many many times - I would guess that most of the people that think using the lemon law is a good idea have never even been in civil court.
I have been involved in several civil legal battles - the longest one lasted 12 years - the shortest case was a little over 2 years - I can not imagine why anyone that knows anything about our legal system would even consider going to court for something this petty. Even if I win what would I gain - a few hundred dollars - maybe if I'm lucky a $1,000. For what - a couple of years of talking with lawyers - just not worth it.
I don't claim to be Bill Gates - a thousand dollars is a thousand dollars - but if you look at the situation from a business perspective - no way the lemon law is a winning situation. Not in Texas anyway.
Its not like posting about my defective Mazda3 (on Edmunds) is a lot of work - its kind of like a hobby.
BTW - I don't lay awake at night and worry about it.
Point is, you can't "punish" a car company or the phone company, and this is something all consumers need to realize. They, the companies, don't care if they "win" in the sense that they don't stomp and cheer, and don't care if they "lose", in the sense that they don't leave the room all glum and tail-dragging. The consumer takes it personally (and naturally so) but the company doesn't. It's just a column of numbers because they've already sold you the product. Win some, lose some, shrug.
So act like a company yourself. Do the numbers. Do the research, get an attorney and just get down to the business of solving your problem--that's the best way. Don't feel "cheated" or "wronged", just work to a resolution if you can. All that other stuff gets in your way. Lawyers and arbitrators know this but sometimes consumers have to learn it the hard way.
My one and only gripe is that silly cartridge type oil filter and the only real problem there is finding the correct size cap-type oil filter removing tool to get the canister off. It's a plastic canister and I've been able to get it off without the proper tool ok so far without damaging it but don't want to push my luck.
Anyone who knows what the correct diameter cap type oil filter removing tool this thing takes and reports it here will have done a tremendous service.
I'm also a service tech at a Toyota dealership so I'm going to go out on a limb here.
I know AC stuff is getting automatically deleted unless someone has something new to report of an official nature. My comment is not of an official nature in that it is not about any info released by any mfg, but is an observation on AC operation derived from my own experience in working on them and brings up a factor not previeously mentionned here.
In my experience one cause of overly frequent compressor cycling and poor cooling performance can be overcharging of the AC system--too much refrigerant causes high side pressures to be excessive. All modern auto ac systems have pressure swithches to shut down the compressor if high side pressure gets too high in order to protect the compressor from overload/failure. It is not unheard of for an inexperienced person to automatically conclude that poor ac performance is due to inadequate refrigerant instead of one of the many other potential problems such as a maladjusted airmix control cable and mistakenly add more refrigerant than is advisable to a system, resulting in excessive high side pressure.
This is by no means the only potential cause for excessive high side pressure, others being poor airflow thru the condenser or a restricted expansion valve or orifice. Many systems don't have sightglasses and even those that do are often full even though some bubbles or even light foaming is evident in the sightglass. The only real way to verify correct refrigerant level is to evacuate the system and recharge with the exact amount called for in the mfg. specs. Usually there is a leeway in what the total amount should be--in other words the spec will be (for example) 1.3 to 1.6 lbs of refrigerant for a given model. In these cases I've found that in a hot climate like ours here in Fresno one is better off using the lowest amount called for in order to help keep the compressor from cycling off due to excessive high side pressure.
If the above is a violation of the new guidelines my apologies in advance and please delete same.
I tend to agree with him, of course making due deference to "beware of generalities". But on the whole, it has also been my experience that a goodly number of AC problems are related to poor understanding by supposed AC "technicians". Even browsing these boards in other forums, I see all kinds of mistakes being made that even to an amateur like me seem unforgiveable. Adding too much coolant is one, and I just saw another yesterday where someone's AC compressor had seized and the shop did not change out the dryer, etc, nor flush out the system entirely by disassembling it. Well guess what, the new AC compressor ate itself in a few thousand miles. Also faulty recirc servo motors or cables, an obvious thing to look for, is often overlooked.
And of course, the poor soul who owns a black car with black upholstery and lives in Phoenix.
Meade....sorry for the late reply, but I believe that should read "....if the temp of the air coming out of your vents is 20 degrees colder than the air temp at the intake..." If it is 110 degrees outside here in Tucson, NO ONE would be happy with 90 degree air coming out of the vents in their house. once the inside temp is cooled to normal 78-80 degrees, it will come out of vents below 60 degrees.
No worries
Jeff
Do you realize what bill owns, and where he lives?
I suspect a lot of the "black car" thing is more psychological than physical.
The problem is so "real" that I hear from some used car guys that black cars in Pheoeix actually suffer a depreciation in resale value.
I'm not saying that being a black car is the CAUSE of the problem, only that if you already have some marginality from some other cause, the black ext/int. will make it worse.
All a black on black car would do is make the AC work a little harder and longer, but eventually the AC, if 100%, should cool the car I think.
One reply I got was as follow.
"Direct 12V to the compressor and see how low the evap temp will go before the evap starts to freeze. If it's way down perhaps a way to keep the compressor on a little longer could solve the problem. BE CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS, DONE AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION"
It has been noted here many times that some posters felt the quick cycle and small evap may be contributing to the weak A/C.
I would also like to note that it appears that some of the members at that board are A/C techs.
18.5k miles and...um...still nothing untoward to report, just a few comments.
Oil change plus tire rotation at 15k handled without ado at selling dealership; they installed the replacement cargo net clip. Plus the dealer gives you the "Full Circle Report Card" with the oil change, which is nice for those of us who are anal retentive. Oil change is $26.95. which is cheaper than the local "Grease Monkey" franchise even with a coupon, plus the Mazda techs aren't smoking cigarettes in the pit as they change your oil. "Under New Management" is not always a good thing...
Still no rattles/squeaks/noises. A/C keeps up fine with recent "heat wave" in Seattle. Car is so friendly and fun, and it begs for you to drive the p!ss out of it, which is the best way to do it.
Option packages:
Xenons: finally had occasion to load the car up for a road trip and aimed them down to compensate, worked well. TPMS has been spot-on accurate twice (up to me to find the right tire, but sure enough, 4 lb down). Both very useful features and worth the price IMHO.
ABS not used so far, thankfully, but I feel better knowing my fiance is driving w/all the airbags, especially since the recent Corolla vs. Silverado fatality at the entrance to our neighborhood. I peek inside any 3's I see to check for the "SRS/AIRBAG" tags on the seats and pillars. It's surprising how many don't have them. Insist on one with this package. Cheapest insurace you can buy.
Leather holding up well, but interior gets dirty quickly and the cheap-[non-permissible content removed] carpet is tough to get normal flora droppings out of. One word: Swiffer.
Moonroof can't be kept (slid) open over about 40mph, way too much wind noise, which can be alleviated as long as I hold down the pop-up wind thing down about 1/4 inch, which is never fun. I only tilt it on the freeway. 6CD doesn't shuffle between all discs, which makes it more or less just a glorified CD storage compartment. Unless you're a moonroof junky (which I am unfortunately) skip this package and spend it elsewhere.
Side note: Got a giddy, smiling response from my thumbs-up to a new Audi A3 driver on I-5. That car is very cool. Kindred spirits, I guess, and it only makes me wish for an AWD 3, which would pretty much be the perfect car...if it could tow a ski boat. Oh well.
We would buy the same car, for the same price, again tomorrow if given another chance.
It is the dark Orange with a black interior
We have driven our Mazda 32,000 miles in Florida and Georgia during the past year.
We have never experienced any problems with the AC Cooling the car at any time.
In 92 degree temperatures yesterday the car cooled perfectly.
Nothing has had to be repaired/replaced on this car except the tires which we replaced at 31,000 miles with Michelin Pilot sport A/S 225/45-17.
The OEM Goodyear 205/50-17 RSA's still had not reached the wear bars, but we got a nail in one and so we went ahead and replaced them all, with a significant improvement in handling.
The Mazda 3 5 door is much more reliable and almost as much fun to drive as our 2003 350 Z Track.
Mazda has been the most outstanding Dealer/Factory experience we have ever enjoyed with any car.
I sincerely doubt that there has been any " Factory Coverup" of any problem, since Mazda has consistantly done everything possible to correct problems with all their cars.
RE: Engineering, pyschology or defect?
I really want you guys to post, not me, but this point is important I think. To my mind, if a car's engineering is bad, a very high percentage of the badly engineered component will show the defect sooner or later and then we have either a national recall or worse hyet, an economic disaster for the company--in other words, the car really cannot be fixed (e.g., Maserati Bi-Turbo engine, Triumph TR-7 head gaskets) ; if it's a defect in a certain run of components in a production line ("oops, we made the grommet too small and now something's leaking---make the grommet bigger on the next batch of cars") , then it's up to the dealer and factory to team up and retro-fit a cure or refund your $$ under lemon law for that small percentage of cars affected by the defect; if it's psychological, there is no cure as the owner is sour on the car and it will never be right---this last one is very human, I have felt this way myself. You end up simply never trusting the car and every noise, squeek and rattle freaks you out. Unnerving.
Daryl
I thought the 225 45 17 size tire requires a wider wheel (7 inch min) the Mazda3 wheel is only 6.5 inches.
Also - if "Nothing has had to be repaired/replaced on this car except the tires"
What do you base the good factory experience on?
Must be that "psychological" thing - no problems = good opinion; many unresolved problems = bad opinion.
I'm looking for a good dealer in FLA myself. Where did you buy? I'm in the west central area but willing to drive a ways for a good deal. Thanks.
I've aslo had good luck with the service department with mostly routine maintenance. Had a few warranty visits with the 2003 6i, but they were resolved without too much inconvenience. It always helps if you are informed before you go in on prices and TSB's or known issues.
The Vibration
Doesn’t occur all the time. When it does, it’s barely noticeable (most times) but the vibration feels more pronounced on occasion. The vibe is always felt and never heard. Usually, there is no vibe into and out of 1st. At times, I think it’s the engine causing this, but if this were the case then the vibration should always be on tap. I usually feel the vibe under normal shifting: between 2500 & 4000 rpm. The vibration occurs in the middle part of the clutch engagement. If I’m hard shifting, between 5000 & 6000 rpm, then I don’t notice it (BTW – I never drop the clutch; those days are gone, for me, at least).
The Squeak/Squeal
Occurs all the time regardless of driving, standing still, on/off, etc. The noise is heard during the last couple of inches of travel down and then its heard again during the first couple of inches of travel up. The TSB indicates some type of clutch position sensor that may need to be replaced.
Thoughts? Might the bad sensor cause the clutch to vibrate? Is the car still too new and the vibe might work its way out?
Meade
"The Squeak/Squeal Occurs all the time regardless of driving, standing still, on/off"
By on/off do you mean it squeaks even with the engine OFF?
Do a fresh air vent temp test yourself and if is considerably warmer than the outside air this is not normal but I am sure Mazda will say it is for their car which is their way to dodge a problem. :mad:
Since you may not have been recently active here or seen the host's notice about "deleting on sight" any old re-hashed AC posts, I'll let this stand but I strongly encourage ONLY new users to respond if they are having a similar problem.
Otherwise, I'd like to see the thread move on to other subjects.
Thank you,
MrShiftright
Host
Let me just add a few more details.
When I picked up my car it had only 6 miles on the odometer – so it was new, new. The clutch engagement always (since day one) occurred on the latter half of the clutch pedal release. That took some getting used to, since my last vehicle (Contour) had a shorter clutch pedal travel and the clutch engagement was toward the first half of the clutch pedal release (closer to the fire wall). Rumors had it that that tranny was made by Mazda. It was a great tranny, btw. Anyway, back to the vibe. The vibe in the clutch pedal isn’t harsh; in fact it’s barely noticeable. I get so in tuned with a vehicle that I’ll notice the slightest things out of sort. The vibe is felt when shifting from/to gears 2-5 under normal driving (2500-4000 rpm), but not all the time; right now, if put on the spot, I would say 25% of the time. For example, I’m traveling in 1st gear and depress the clutch pedal. The first few inches of pedal travel is nothing to lament about. Then, I feel the slight vibe for about an inch or so in the middle of the pedal travel. Quickly after, there is a squeak, a couple of inches before the fire wall. I then shift into 2nd gear and release the clutch pedal. Again, another quick squeak 2 inches from the fire wall followed by the vibe, there after, for another inch or so of pedal travel. Then the last few inches of pedal travel are uneventful. This happens in all gears except going into 1st or out of 5th. I found that if I ‘stretch’ the gears 1 and 2 (bring the rpm within 1,000 of redline), the vibe will immediately cease, even though I return to normal driving/shifting.
And stop saying "vibe"! You're conjuring images of stubby little Pontiacs in our heads!!!
:P
Meade
Most cars (with a manual tranny) have a safety switch in the clutch pedal - If you don't have the clutch pedal depressed you can not start the car.
I had a Nissan that had a squeaky clutch pedal - drove me crazy - and it was this little safety switch. One shot of silicone spray - problem solved.
Look on the back side of the clutch pedal - and you should find the switch (guess) - push the pedal in with your hand and listen for the squeak. Put the E-brake on first!