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Or if they were told - no big deal just trade it in - or my favorite - when someone says - But my AC works great - are you opening the windows and letting the hot air out and driving for 5-10 minutes - then turning on the OUTSIDE air for another 5 minutes - then switching to recirc?
Just got back from a 1,100-mile trip to and from Pittsburgh over the last five days. I am happy to report that even with me, my wife and 4-year-old son in the car, the cargo area completely packed to the bursting point, and the back seat pretty doggone full, AND the (very nicely working) air conditioning on the entire time (the missus doesn't like her hair messed up), my peculiarly problem-free 2005 Mazda3 hatch managed 32.6 mpg on the highway.
(And that was mostly in the mountains, staying about five miles per hour above the posted speed limits of 65 in VA and PA, and 70 in WV.)
Meade
- park only in the shade, with windows cracked and use a sunshade
- drive only in the shade or at night!
Of course, with an automatic trans (which I hope I never have to drive on a regular basis for the rest of my life) and auto start, driving with the window down could be a thing of the past (for some).
The poor guy was saying how the AC was not a problem - but the very fact that he needed to go through all of this made it obvious his AC was weak.
Nothing wrong with rolling the windows down and letting the hot air out - or using a sun shade - or getting the windows tinted - all good things to do to help a very weak AC -
BTW the warranty is 4 years / 50k miles - which sounds good - but if they just say every problem is normal then not sure what good a warranty does anyway.
I would rather have a 3 year 36,000 miles warranty with a company that will actually fix things that are defective -
Give Mazda some credit - they know that the extra year of so called warranty will cost them almost nothing - unless your engine blows up they will just say - its normal.
If you don't agree - just ask anyone that has a defective AC system or harsh shifting auto tranny what Mazda did to solve their problem. Nothing - thats what - nice warranty!
ALRIGHT ALREADY!!!!! we know your mazda sucks, but ours don't! it's almost like every time someone comes on here to say they got a good one, you have to pile on them and tell them they didn't really get a good one. WE KNOW YOU GOT A LEMON. you know what? its your fault, you should have lemon law-ed it. i would have, with complete satisfaction. you say your car is fixed but you STILL complain about it. either take that car back and get satisfaction or shut up already. i hate to say this to you, because i feel bad for you and i think you got shined but you need to buck up and get satisfaction, quit letting mazda push you around, or shut up about it. can i please come on here and see anything besides your constant whining? go down and hold mazda hostage until satisfaction, if not SHUT UP!!!!!! mazda will not do that to me, i guarantee you that. as i said, with all due respect.
Maybe you and some of the other LUCKY (without problems YET) Mazda3 owners should go start a board that is called "WHY I LOVE MAZDA" Then you could post all the great things about Mazda - and give each other hugs.
You must have gotten a good car from Mazda - lucky for you - I am glad you did - really. Did you check out the AC before you bought it? Bet you did - did you read about this possible defect on the MAZDA3 PROBLEMS and SOLUTIONS board?
Do you know what it takes to lemon law a MAZDA in TEXAS? Go look it up and then tell me if you still think it is worth it - I did (look it up) not worth the time - trouble - or expense - or the stress - not worth it to me anyway.
Mazda did fix some of my defects - the grinding brakes - the stalling engine - the thumping front end - the CEL - the air bag sensor - they did not really fix my defective AC system - but the tinting did help - they don't even consider my harsh shifting tranny (1-2 gear) a problem yet - so no fix yet. Now than Mazda is coming out with a 5 speed auto maybe never!
So you think if your AC turns weak and Mazda just says its working as designed you could somehow force them to fix your car?
Go get a lawyer - pay a few thousand dollars - wait a year - maybe two to get your case in front of a judge - maybe win - maybe lose - not for me -
They have no standard that says the car will ever be cool - so it would be hard to prove the AC is not within MAZDA spec.
Ever try and cool a car on a 95 degree - sunny - humid day with 52 degree air?
But put the car in the shade on a 84 degree day and it will blow maybe 48 degree air - well within spec - and will actually cool off the car. AC also works great at night!
I could just see it - I wait for a year or 2 - get my (lemon law) case before a judge and its January and the temp outside is 50 degrees and the AC blows 42 degree air -
Meade
The window down thing is kind of a joke - someone posted that they have no problem with the AC in the Mazda3 - thought it worked good - then went on to say all you need to do is roll the windows down and drive for 5 or 10 minutes - then turn the AC on - but put it on outside air - drive with windows still down - then roll windows up - but leave AC on outside air - then switch over to recirc. After 15 minutes the car was cool!! It can't get any better than that!
I can't help but think you're attributing that to me. Well, if you'll take off your (sweaty) blinders and reread my post 2145 from August 5, you'll note that I performed your little thermometer test without doing all that. I simply started the car and left it idling, with the windows up and the recirculate switch on ... which is the way YOU advocate cooling the car down. Even so, here's what my temperature probe read from my center vents:
In less than a minute it was down to 42 degrees. I then heard the A/C compressor cycle off, and the temp went up to 44 and then to 46 -- over the course of about a minute. Then it cycled back on again and the vent temp returned to 42. I let this go on for about five minutes or so, noting no change. Then I took the probe out of the vent and hung it over the back of the passenger seat so that the sensor was dangling in the air right about where a back seat passenger's knees would be. The temperature went up to 66 degrees and stayed there for five minutes. The car was at idle the whole time.
You also just said, once again ad nauseum ...
Nothing wrong with rolling the windows down and letting the hot air out - or using a sun shade - or getting the windows tinted - all good things to do to help a very weak AC
Bill, for God's sake, how many times do we have to go out and gather quotes from the owner's manuals of every other car on the planet? This is STANDARD PROCEDURE with auto air conditioners!!!
Do you also make ice cubes with hot water?
Meade
You should tell your dealer (if you still can) that some of us (I'm not the only one) received free oil changes for the first 3 years/36,000 miles, and free tires for life as long as we perform all our recommended maintenance at the dealership.
I just got my tires rotated for the first time (had it done while having my second free oil change performed), and my dealership (Whitten Mazda, Richmond, VA) charges $15 to rotate all four tires. I asked, and the regular price of an oil change for a Mazda3 -- at my dealership -- is $24.95. So at my dealership, excluding items (3) and (4) which aren't necessary, 45,000 miles of oil changes and tire rotations would cost $479.25 -- but since some dealerships are giving away free oil changes for 36,000 miles, I'll only be paying $179.85 (that's tire rotations every 6K miles, plus the cost of the three oil changes from 36K to 45K miles).
Meade
State problems and seek/offer solutions.
Lemon law comments are a good suggestion to move the solution along so we don't get stuck in endless debate over one single point. Not happy? Go fight it out legally!
If I fill an ice cube tray with hot (even boiling) water and stick it in my freezer guess what I would have in a few hours - ICE CUBES -
Sure if I put 45 degree water in the trays it will freeze a few minutes faster -
But the point is MY FREEZER WILL FREEZE WATER NO MATTER WHAT THE STARTING TEMP OF THE WATER IS.
If you put hot water in your freezer and the next day it was still water would you think you had a good freezer?
Its not that rolling the windows down is a bad thing - its the fact that is the guy needs to drive for 5 - 10 minutes with the windows down - then use outside air - then roll the windows up - then switch to recirc - if you have a good AC system you don't need to do all of this - well not unless the temp outside is 120 degrees. Now do you understand? Some how I bet you still don't - and thats OK - we all learn at different rates -
And my point is, my 3's air conditioner will send 42-degree air out of my vents no matter what the starting temperature of the car's interior is ... and frankly I'm getting just a wee bit damned tired of reading your constant, never-ending, unfounded yacking that the air conditioning of all Mazda3's has a known defect that Mazda will not acknowledge.
Were that the case, mine and everyone's here would share that defect. The plain fact of the matter is, they don't.
We're sorry to hear you got a bum unit. But stop accusing all Mazda3's of having bad air conditioners. OK? Go do what you have to do. Take Mazda to court. Take a shotgun to your service department. Send your car off a cliff.
JUST DO SOMETHING AND CEASE THIS!!!
Meade
Don't believe that you can just sit around on this problem and do nothing until the time's right for you. In my state you have 18 months from delivery to make your case. Get a move on!
Meade
In Texas Lemon Law complaint must be filed within six months of:
- Expiration of the warranty;
- 24 months of ownership; or
- 24,000 miles following the date of delivery of the vehicle
... whichever comes first.
Whatever the case, you're going to have to prove that the problem still exists. If Mazda's saying the a/c is performing to specificaitons, that's gonna be a toughy.
Meade
Is the AC still a problem even on the 2005 and 2006s? Those of you with the major AC problems, when did you buy your car?
I suppose i was lucky...since I didn't even turn on the AC for my test drive.
I think sheer numbers speak for themselves in that the a/c is NOT an across-the-board problem on the Mazda3; in fact the sheer few people who have reported it represent such a small sample of owners that it's almost laughable how much attention this "problem" has received here. There must have been a few problems on the assembly line on a case-by-case basis, with no connection to year of build date.
Consider these production numbers from Mazda Japan (found in a press release on mazda.com):
"76,079 Mazda3s sold in the U.S. in 2004, and from January through April 2005, U.S. Mazda3 sales were 31,722 units, up 32.0 percent over year-ago levels. Mazda3 was the top-selling passenger vehicle in Canada in April 2005 with sales of 7,120 units, and robust sales of the sporty compact are largely responsible for Mazda becoming Australia’s top-selling import brand year-to-date in 2005. Mazda sold a total of 22,641 vehicles in Australia from January to April 2005.”
So, Mazda had sold nearly 120,000 Mazda3's in North America as of April of this year, and we have what ... maybe a half-dozen real complainers here at Edmunds, which is the largest automobile forum in North America (yet has membership worldwide)?
Let's get out the trusty calculator.
Six documented problems in 120,000 vehicles equals ...
Five-thousandths of one percent.
No problems.
Consider that the Mazda3 has garnered more than 50 international awards and has even been given the editors' Top Pick for sedans under $15,000 right here at Edmunds, and is also at the top of the class in Consumer Guide and Consumer Reports, with no mention of any inherent a/c problems,
To fairly judge the "problem," you must consider how many owners, in total, have been complaining on this discussion ... not how many hundreds of posts one or two individuals have made about it.
Meade
You cite every Mazda 3 made... yet assume the only bad A/C units are the few people that post here on Edmunds...
How many of those 120,000 Mazda 3 owners have a Town Hall membership.. or, have even heard of Edmunds? If you want to use math to bolster your argument, you'll need those figures..
And, if it were only six cars with the problem, why would there be a TSB, with a fix?
SSShhheeewwwwwww... :surprise:
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Think they'll market one with a Mazda3 logo?
It isn't just this forum, the great AC issue is raging on another forum devoted to the Mazda3. Posters there seem much more irate.
SO, take a rest and stop with the flames...go for a drive in your 3, whether you still like it or not.
Are the Mr. Goodwrench commercials the worst ever, or what? Who do they appeal to?
3s was $17.1k and 6i was $16.6k (with another $1k off with MAC). Just couldn't pass up the 6i at $15.6k.
I keep having to turn up the AC because it's too cold. And that's in 98 degree central Florida heat.
I'm sure glad I didn't buy a 3s with a defective AC (just kidding).
We're happy with the car and when she buys her new Jetta in the near future, we'll do the same thing. Thanks for all your imput though...I respectfully decline it all!
The Sandman
It isn't just this forum, the great AC issue is raging on another forum devoted to the Mazda3. Posters there seem much more irate
thats a good idea. i dont know how to do it, but heres the sitch with my wifes 3:
although i dont drive it much and we were out of town for 3 of the 5 weeks we've owned it i think the a/c is fine. it is not as strong as the a/c in the corolla we traded for it, but its 'nothing to complain about'.it cools the car and we live in florida. ours was built may 2005. i look at it like this, the corolla beats the 3 on a/c but loses on everything else and my wife loves it so...
So move on to something new or get used to writing in disappearing ink, or worse, risk losing your posting privileges.
I apologize for the interruption of your conversations. Please continue and please remember that you are here to have fun.
Thanks in advance for your future cooperation
MrShiftright
Host
Where is it might I ask?
This is from alldata for a 2005 mazda 3 s
Service Bulletins
TSB Number & Issue Date TSB Title
0400105 MAR 05 Brakes - Front Brake Squeak When Cold
0100305 MAR 05 Engine - Noise/Smell/Overheating/Charge Lamp ON
0101305 MAR 05 Ignition/Fuel System - Engine Hard Start/Long Crank Time
0904204 JAN 05 A/C - Rear Window Defroster Grid Diagnosis/Repair
0104504 JAN 05 Emissions/Fuel System - MIL ON/Multiple DTC's Set
0104604 JAN 05 Engine - Oil Filter Cartridge Housing Damage Prevention
Does anyone else find the front headrests a bit large? We looked at the Volvo S 40 and all four of it's headrests made it a deal breaker for us. The wife just couldn't see behind her...it really was a bit dangerous. I think the car companies need to come up with headrests that are crash worthy but in a manageable size so as not to block visibility. The "one size fits all" approach is not in the consumers best interest!
Anyway Sandman, I talked to your F&I guy, and he says he really loves customers like you!
Er, sandman ... at the end of the post you made about your decision to purchase the package, you did ask, and I quote ...
Any comments?
If you didn't want any, you shouldn't have asked for any.
Meade
Note the words "2004 Mazda3" and "some vehicles".
Meade
On another board I have heard 05 having some problems creepying up on engine knock, more than a few. Anybody here notice any knocking?
No matter the Mazda specs, did your service guy seem concerned at all about the 51-degree air? BTW, how hot was it outside?
With home a/c systems, it's considered well within operating parameters if the temp coming out of your vents is 20 degrees colder than the outside air. It seems like a system in a car would have to fight even harder, with very little insulation compared to a house, and lots of window area.
Maybe the car manufacturers write those specs so high to accommodate cars brought in when it is in fact approaching the high end of the summer temperatures. If it was 90 when you got your a/c checked and it was blowing 51-degree air, maybe a 40-degree difference is considered acceptable by the manufacturer... ?
It sure would be for a $4,000 home unit -- I know, because I have two heat pumps and I've had them both serviced several times in the six years I've owned my house. It would seem a tiny $900 car unit wouldn't be able to do nearly as well -- but they do as well -- actually much better! Maybe I could put a Mazda unit on my house when one of my Rheems fails ... cheaper and much colder air ... hmmm, for 1900 square feet, I may need a couple dozen of 'em!
:shades:
Meade
Download this five-page shop manual chapter and scroll down to the very last chart.
http://www.clarks-garage.com/pdf-manual/hvac-02.pdf
Note that it says the data is not specific to Porsche; rather, "the following table is a general guideline for A/C system pressures and temperatures based on ambient outside temperature." No Mazda favoritism or pessimism in this data -- just the facts.
Meade
I think the vent temp listed in the chart is with the OUTSIDE AIR - NOT RECIRC mode selected. RIGHT?
If you are in recirc mode then you should be able to keep reducing the air vent temp down - because you are cycling air that is already cooler (then ambient air) back through the evaperator.
This is the one I am betting on. I don't know for sure."
I suspect that you are correct. The fix would probably involve major mods to the car and be too expensive. Considering how well the car is selling, they can live with the complaints.
Since the Host can't edit your posts and cherry-pick the good stuff from the not so good, please try to avoid deletions by considering the following suggestions:
1. address the entire forum when possible
2. remember, this forum is problems AND solutions. Try to help each other with useful TSBs, diagrams, charts, specs and your own efforts to solve problems with your Mazda3
3. Give other members a chance to participate. Welcome them and ask them questions.
thank you
MrShiftright
Host
Your Edmunds profile indicates that you've got a wealth of automotive experience.
Maybe, to advance the AC discussion from the "mine's hot!, mine's not!" exchanges, you could provide links or info that might help owners to analyze their AC poblems - if they have problems?
Maybe you have contacts with much greater AC technical experience that could be shared with us amateurs?
If you put all of the same parts together (compressor, evaperator, condenser, fan) to make an AC system you would think they would all have the same capacity - produce the same amount of cold air - but this is not really true. There will always be random variances in the production process that will impact the final capacity of any system.
Most of the time this is no big deal for 2 reasons.
The variation in performance is small
and
When engineers design a system they take the normal variation into consideration and design the system so that even on the ones that perform on the lower end of the scale still have enough capacity to do the job.
When an engineer designs a bridge they calculate the exact strength of the steel they need to carry the load of the vehicles that will go across it - and then they double (maybe triple) the amount that they actually use. They want a LARGE margin of error.
Not every 2.3L engine (in the Mazda3) produces exactly 160 HP - some are maybe 162 - others are 156 - but even the one with only 156 HP can still drive down the road - most of the time the difference is so small you would not even be able to tell the difference if you drove the cars back to back. But in any case you would never see a Mazda3 (that is running properly) stopped part way up a hill because the engine just doesn't have enough power to make it to the top.
It seems like when Mazda designed the AC system for the Mazda3 they did not included a large enough margin of error to cover the normal variation (range) of operating performance. So if you get the wrong mix of parts your AC just can't do the job. If you get the right mix then your AC works fine.
I think this is why (before my windows were tinted) at 80 degrees my AC worked fine - at 85 degrees it started to fade - and by the time I hit 90+ it really did not cool the car. It just did not have the capacity to handle the heat load.
That brings me back to the evaperator - I really think it is the WEAKEST link in the system. When it was sized I am sure Mazda did all the right calculations - but must have decided to cut it real close - save the extra few inches & the few extra dollars - they did not allow enough of a margin of error.
Now they can't fix the problem (even on the 2006 model) by just adding another 10% to the capacity of the evaperator - because they don't have enough room.
So now they are faced with a situation where because of the random variation in the production process a (small) % of the cars that are being made have AC systems that on a hot day with high humidity just don't have the capacity to cool the car.
Seem reasonable?