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Did you tell them you can get a Civic EX for $16K?
Give this a try -
Go into the Mazda dealership - tell them you have a deal on a Civic EX - loaded just the way you want it for $16K. Be honest - you can't decide between the Mazda3 or the Civic EX - you want to take each for a another test drive before you make your decision - and that after you drive the Mazda you are going to go straight to the Honda dealership and give the EX another test drive. Then you want to make your decision and buy a car TODAY.
The will not want you to leave the dealership and go to Honda - they want to sell you the Mazda - they will ask you this question - What will it take to get you to but the Mazda3 right now. $16K is the obvious answer - be firm - if the say $16.5 or even $16.2 you still want to give the EX one more drive.
A little general tip: when you're talking about 2 cars within $1000 of each other, the difference might look good on paper as the final selling price, but it's going to make VERY little difference in your payment schedule...probably on the order of $10-15 per month. Hence the dangers of payment shopping, but I digress.
Personally, I'd choose the Mazda3 at this point, because of the longer warranty, loaner car deal with warranty work, extra features, more powerful and economic engine (per real-life testing, not EPA numbers) and just cooler looks. But I drive a 3. Gee, what a shock.
You, on the other hand, might want the sunroof in the EX, and might like the "feel" of that car more, and buy into Honda's supposed reputation. The point is, you're the only oen that can make that decision. You're the one who is going to be stuck driving the car you choose, so choose what you feel is best for you.
My point is choose the best car for you and pay less for it.
I know that the Mazda3 is still (technically anyway) a new model. But the 2005's are almost here. You really should be able to get a good deal on a 2004 model. $16K is a good target - and this is without all the BS add on fees.
I really don't think you can go too far wrong with either car.
Even though the 05s are coming soon, if the dealer's selling every 04 he can get his hands on as is the case in many parts of the country there's no real incentive for them to sell at fire sale prices. It's not like he's gonna be stuck with a lot full of leftover 04s come next January.
The Civic EX is way overpriced at sticker, is not in short supply by any means, is long in the tooth being in the 3rd or 4th year of it's model cycle. Lots of incentive for dealers to give large discounts.
From a strictly financial standpoint the EX makes more sense than the 3.
I'm gonna break the rules a bit and say that in this kind of situation maybe one should just think in terms of monthly payment.
If you test drive the two cars and in your opinion like the 3's driving characteristics or styling or interior or whatever significantly more than the Civic--to the extent that you honestly feel the Civic is second best, you have to consider whether it's worth $15-20 a month to settle for second best. I know I'd be willing to give up a couple of takeout pizzas a month or rent a couple of dvds instead of buying them if I can enjoy driving the car I really preferred instead of settling for what I can tolerate. Chances are I'll enjoy that car on a daily basis for years.
Within reason I feel like getting the car I really want and enjoy driving is a bit more important than having bragging rights to getting the last hundred dollars off from the dealer. This doesn't apply if you think of a car only as a transportation appliance, but if you really enjoy driving and love cars in general it starts to make sense.
Sometimes the satisfaction of actually getting what you really want can take precedence over thinking you won the "car buying game". Beleive me, you never win that game but sometimes a dealer can make you feel like you did. No matter how much discount you think you got the dealer is not in the charity business, and makes a healthy profit on every car that goes out the door. So basing a buying decision on the desire to get one over on the big bad car dealer is delusional at best.
I had the same situation when I bought the Mazsda3 - the Civics that were in stock did not have the side air bag option. They also don't even offer the curtain air bag system.
Look at the crash test results - when a car has the side air bag + curtain they will always have a better safety rating.
If you can buy one for invoice that would be a fair deal.
8 miles on odometer -- recently built and delivered
MSRP = $19,995 (plus the $800 protectant bs charge)
I paid $18680 (includes all dest/doc fees and student rebate) + tax, title fee
jim ellis mazda, chamblee, atlanta
Love the car it is the best small car I have ever driven/owned
I was offered one for $342 below invoice (NOT including their $151 fee and $399 fee) from Roswell Mazda but that one had xenon lights and moonroof/6 cd -- another $1200 I didn't want to spend. (Their "owner" was a tool anyway I'd rather not deal with them even if they had the car I liked)
I looked around this area and I think I got about the best deal you can get in Atlanta at this time--the problem is wait a month for 05s and get maybe $500 more off or buy now and pick one you like---there are still brand new 04s on the lot that were just delivered, but they seem to be going fast -- a couple tried to test drive the one I was buying as we were putting the financing together -- I ran out there quick!
I tested the civic lx and ex and I am so glad the dealer didn't come down the extra $400 I wanted to on those because I ended up getting a car i liked a ton better, even though a few thousand more.
So does that mean that a Mazda3 with SAB/SAC is safer than a Civic EX with ABS and NO SAB/SAC? I called my Honda dealer today to tell him I'd probably be going with a Mazda3, and he gave me the whole spiel about how the Civic is more reliable and safer. It did get better government ratings, apparently, but maybe those are done with base models (i.e., without the optional safety equipment)?
The salesman said they are selling for sticker price? Has anyone else had this experience? I thought this was strange. I checked Edmunds and it appears in my area N.E. (NY state), that the Mazda 3I is only selling for roughly $500 - $700 under sticker price? Has anyone had a similar experience?
I don't think the Mazda3 with side air bags has been tested yet.
Go over to www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ and you can compare the crash test results.
Buying a new civic today is buying 5 year old technology at today's prices.
Drive both and you won't even consider the civic again!
I agree. We used to be a "Honda family" having had 3 different models of their cars. Now we own a Mazda3 Hatchback (and still having a tough time selling the 2001 Civic EX sedan for the last 3 months). I certainly do hope the 2004 Civic is somewhat better than the 2001 we had (same generation, though). But after driving the Mazda3, there is simply no comparison.
I have expressed my points of view toward the Civic and the Mazda3 on this board previously, so I don't want to bore the "regulars" with another one of my posts. But given that you can get a Mazda3 you want for roughly invoice, there is no point to buy the Civic just because it's slightly cheaper. Of course the Honda dealers will try to bash the Mazda, that's their job. But even though I'm biased, I still recommend that you buy something you truly want, since the price difference is relatively small. Don't make the same mistake as we did 3 years ago. ;-)
The extra year of warranty on the Mazda WAS a good selling point - at least until I found out that Mazda does honor their commitment. In hind site I would rather have 3/36,000 of real warranty rather than 48/50,000 of hollow promises.
Our 04 Honda Accord had rain leaking into the backseat 4 times each time it could not be fixed. All warranty work has some issues.
I drove the EX too. I don't see how it remotely compares to the handling/pickup/comfort of the 2.3 Mazda3, but maybe I'm nuts. I am sooo glad I didn't get the Honda, even though it would have been about $50 less per month.
Our 04 Honda Accord had rain leaking into the backseat 4 times each time it could not be fixed. All warranty work has some issues.
I drove the EX too. I don't see how it remotely compares to the handling/pickup/comfort of the 2.3 Mazda3, but maybe I'm nuts. I am sooo glad I didn't get the Honda, even though it would have been about $50 less per month.
I'm going to pass, because I don't want/need the moonroof and Cd changer. But maybe that will help you...
My rear brakes also make a grinding noise, my tranny shifts (1st-2nd) is starting to become very harsh. These are also considered normal.
It seems to me that anything Mazda does not want to fix they just say it is normal or working as designed.
When I contacted customer service and ask them what I should do about these problems - they told me to go see the states attorney general.
It is not the dealership that is the problem - it is Mazda corporate. Absolutely the worst customer service I have ever experienced.
Also, even though the reviews are good for the 3 and consumer report has it at the top, still dont see the 'tremendous' difference compared to the other good small cars. The price point on this car is close to the mid sized cars like the Accord/Camry/Mazda6. That being said, if you like the design of the 3 which is very nice, and dont want to drive a car everyone else does, then maybe the price difference is acceptable.
If the car is exactly the way you want it otherwise, I'd grab it.
regards,
kyfdx
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The civic is in its 5th year of its generation--the resale value will take a hit because even a new one will seem old when the next body comes out in 2006. A 2004 (or 2005) civic looks exactly like a 2000. That's not to say it's a bad car, but who'll want to pay more for a 2004 when they can get a low mileage 2001 or 2000 much cheaper.
The 2004 3 will likely be the same body for the next 3-5 years. Thus, a 2004 three will not look "old" or outdated compared to a 2006 or maybe even a 2007 3.
Resale value should't be a primary factor. Obviously, Mazda, Honda, Toyota are all going to have similar levels of resale value, depending on the model.
BTW, I have a 3 build date 7/22/04 and I have to keep turning the ac down because it gets too cold --problem must be from earlier build dates.
I've been doing inventory searches on Mazdausa.com from New Jersey to Massachusetts, and I am having a LOT of trouble finding a 3i with ABS and Power, moonroof or not. I'd like a silver, but I might not end up with anything.
Mazda 3i... 3yr/45K residual = 40%
Civic EX... 3yr/45K residual = 52%
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If $500 to $1,000 difference is a major concern then IMO you should really be looking at the total cost of ownership and not just resale value anyway.
When I went to look at the Mazda 3 they only had 1 S model with a stick, which I really wanted. It had the moonroof and 6 disc package along with leather and the 17" wheels, all options I'd not normally go for. After a bit of negotiation I went ahead and bought the car, and now I'm actually glad it has all those things on it.
The moonroof doesn't steal too much headroom, is nice to have at night when it finally cools down enough to turn off the AC, and the leather and other stuff is just plain nice to have. For once I feel like I didn't cheap out on myself.
regards,
kyfdx
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Either way, you WILL enjoy the 3, when you finally do get it !!
But, it could be that these values are being manipulated to move 04s. By raising the residual level to an unreasonable point one can drastically lower monthly payments--the car never gets bought by lessee at end of term and ahfc can swoop in and retain its 2-3 year old civics. I see commercials all the time for accords and civics with $149-$249 lease payments--this is only possible by jacking up the residual values.
I think Honda's high residual value has more to do with moving last years cars to the payment sensitive markets than it does as to actual resale value.
That said, I concede that an average civic probably has a better msrp/resale value ratio than almost any car. But, there are so many other factors that should weigh higher than whatever negligible benefit you would see 3-5 years from now buying the Honda.
I didn't get the moonroof/6cd because I use an ipod in the car with 5000 songs I have no need for a 6 cd player. I like moonroofs but I thought the 3's was very narrow -- only about 10-12" deep.
But, you should be happy with your car, you got a good one.
Usually, Honda will add dealer incentives or lower the money factor on leases to move cars late in the year (they have done both, this year). You don't usually see inflated residuals as much as you used to.... Although Mazda did put some pretty hefty residuals on two-year leases of RX-8s last month, along with $3500 in dealer cash.
I think the benefits of higher resale would be pretty large if you traded after just three years, much less so after five...
I do agree.... I would actually consider buying a Mazda 3, and the Civic would never make my list.. good resale, or not.
regards,
kyfdx
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Is it worthwhile?
The dealer (White Plains Mazda in New York) has to get the car from another dealer, but she says she has found it and can get it for me no problem. What's funny is that I called the other dealer, the one that actually has the car, and when I quoted them $17K they shot me down immediately.
I think I got a great deal on a car that invoices at $16,748 (according to Edmunds) or $16,998 (according to CarsDirect, which adds money for extra fees based on the state). Plus it's exactly how I wanted it, down to the color.
Although they were a little slow at returning phone calls, they got me a great price, so I fully recommend White Plains.
Thanks for all those that helped me over the last few days on this forum. I'm excited...
Take a look at some of the crash test pictures on the IIHS website. It should help you make up your mind.
Toyota Camry without side airbags:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0316.htm
Toyota Camry with side airbags:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0315.htm
Given that, I think they are necesary.
Besides, it can only help resale value in a future market where these options will be standard on most cars.
Anyway, I don't know what to do now. Are more 3is arriving to dealers, or are they not making many more? Should I wait a few days and see what pops up? Or should I just try to expand my search (more colors, more options) and just settle for a car that isn't quite how I wanted it but is fairly close?
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Could I ask where you're located and/or how hot it's been in your area? Some of the folks unhappy with their ac seem to be in hot humid areas like Texas, and I know that 95 degrees with 90% humidity is worse AC wise than 105 degrees and 30% as I experience here in Fresno.