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And the early 90s Lexus were much better looking than the new. They followed the trends and that was toward ugly cars... With a few exceptions.
"As part of that measure, Congress restored the alternative-fuel and hybrid vehicle federal income tax deduction to $2,000 for vehicles purchased in calendar years 2004 and 2005. (Under current law, the value of the deduction was to have been reduced by 25 percent, to $1,500 this year, and reduced by an additional 25 percent in 2005.) The value of the deduction in 2006 remains at only $500, as under current law, and the deduction continues to sunset entirely at the end of 2006"
Honda hit the market with what seemed like a 2/seater skateboard with hard seats. Not a bad start but by most folks opinion not at all a practical family car. After Toyota did their homework they delivered with the 1st generation Prius that turned some serious heads with little ones. The 04' Prius, which I presently own, gets my gold star. I would like to say that I have fond respect for Honda and their R&D. They many times led the way with countless inovations be it motorcycles or autos. I owned one of Honda's first 2 cyl. Coupes back in 72' and I've owned better than a dozen of their bikes (some good & some bad). Toyota has an outstanding reputation for their leadership in an ever changeing and competitive market. I just hope the Hybrid trend proves itself worthy. Time will tell as well as word of mouth (the best advertisement of all).
Culliganman (hiball!)
Hold on there. In the late 1960s, I raced desert & motoX on a Honda 125 two stroke and got beat by Huskies, CZ, Kawasaki, Maico and a lot of others. Honda built a decent bike. Not the fastest or best handling. It was the cheapest to buy of the race bikes. To be real competitive in the world of racing you needed sponsors and Honda was real cheap in my area of CA & later Alaska. Of the Japanese racing bikes Yamaha and Kawasaki were the tops.
I had a real bad experience with a 1978 Honda Accord. I would be willing to give them another chance with the HAH or the Accord Diesel. I think Honda has come a long way since their failed attempt in the 1978 Accord.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/generations/articles/68272/article- .html
Remember when the CVCC engine on the early Hondas was "advanced technology"? Now some of us think nothing of paying thousands of dollars for the latest powertrain technology, as on the HAH or other hybrids. Well, that's more practical than spending thousands of dollars on fancy alloy wheels, as some folks do.
Excellent point. I wish magazines who keep talking about "hybrid premium" say as much about these cosmetic accessories.
"The battery pack is designed to last ten years under normal driving conditions."
Source: hondacars.com
"Its[HAH} battery pack comes with an 8-year/80,000-mile warranty"
Source: hondacars.com
Honda is admitting that the average life of the battery is 10 years. Since it is only covered for 8 years, consumers will have to shell out thousands of dollars to replace the battery out of warranty.
Nobody has a clue right now about how much those batteries will cost in ten years from now. And if history repeats itself, and competition is bound to appear, it should be cheaper than whatever it does now.
Doesn't California mandate a 10 year 150k mile warranty on the battery pack for the Prius? I would think that would be for all hybrids.
Once you own the car they can charge whatever they want for the battery (as they do for just about everything else).
http://automobiles.honda.com/info/news/article.asp?ArticleID=2004- 091746959&Category=Accord+Hybrid
However, CARB isn't necessarily making it easy for hybrids to qualify for the AT PZEV certification. As proposed, they must test to zero evaporative emissions and provide a 15-year, 150,000-mile warranty of "tailpipe" emissions performance. In effect, this means that if the battery (or any other part of the powertrain) doesn't last for that period of time or mileage, the manufacturer must eat the cost.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5892&pf=1
Torrance, Calif. October 5, 2003 --
Make/Model = Honda/Civic Hybrid*, Insight
Bumper-To-Bumper Warranty (Years/miles)= 3years, 36,000 miles
Powertrain Warranty = 3years, 36,000 miles
IMA Battery Warranty (Years/miles)= 8 /80,000, AT-PZEV*(CA, NY, ME, VT, MA): 10/150,000
Corrosion Warranty (Years/miles)= 5 years, unlimited miles
Emissions Warranty (years/miles) = Federal: 3 years/36,000, California: 3 years/50,000, AT-PZEV*(CA, NY, ME, VT, MA): 15/150,000
So that is interesting. 15 year and 150k miles on antthing that can screw up the emissions. I wonder if a guy will have a problem with Toyota or Honda getting his car repaired 14 years down the road.
From the same article
That's because no one knows how long any of this hardware will last
Eight years ago, the same question prevailed when Honda EV-Plus was became the first EV to have NiMH battery pack.
Plug It in ! Plug It in!
YMMV,
MidCow
That said, EV-plus has not taken the form of FCX and still uses the same electric motor (albeit with more power now, up from 68 HP to 80 HP). Energy storage has moved from NiMH battery pack to ultra capacitors.
And by the way all NiMH batteries are not the same. There have been significan improvments in the hydride alloys as well as the charge density in recent years, such a prismatic.
YAMV, A=amperage
MidCow
I guess it will be some time then before the HAH employs Ultra Capacitors?
IMO, it is a matter of time before UC replaces batteries in hybrid vehicles especially those that work in “burst mode” (mild hybrids for that matter). The energy density is getting up there (in some cases exceeding that of NiMH batteries), with very high charge/discharge rate compared to chemical batteries. And they are lighter and more compact too! Cost may be an issue, but according to an article I read, the manufacturing cost has come down by as much as one-twentieth of what it was in the mid-80s (from about $2 to $0.10 for each farad of capacitance). There is an anticipation that it might go down to half of the current cost soon. It is also expected that UC will find its way into accessories like PDAs and cell phones.
As for charge leak, electrostatic storage is still (considerably) below electrochemical storage when it comes to “charge life”. A typical alkaline battery is said to retain 75% of its charge after five years on shelf, compared to 50% for a UC in 45 days. But, who would buy a car to put it “on shelf” for 45 days (much less, five years)? That being said, UC by characteristics have a very quick recharge rate too and are better than batteries to gain charge during regenerative braking.
http://motortrend.com/features/news/112_news21/
http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=26012
Sometimes I feel Honda Odyssey Touring should have been just that, a hybrid.
http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=26012
Plus they probably don't have enough of the engines to go around anyway.
Yours is the third article on hybrids I've read in just the last 24 hours that calls the federal deduction a "credit" - the difference is pretty important.
Honda is a cautious automaker, and it isn’t pushing hybrid technology as much as Toyota (at the moment). And if I understand correctly, the point may have to do with letting the technology develop while people take their time to perceive hybrids differently than they do now, and are more accepting to it.
I don’t doubt that Honda could potentially launch a powerful hybrid vehicle sometime soon (compared to the small IMA set up Honda is currently using) but having a few mainstream offerings will help in its own ways. As with any evolving technology, there has to be a need for refinement, improving the little things before you attack the more pronounced pieces. Even as it can be seen, the evolutionary changes from Insight to HCH to HAH have been focused more on the little things, getting more out of less, and making the system more efficient before designing more powerful ones.
The Acura SUV (RDX?) could be a representative of IMA’s high power potential, and may go head on against Toyota’s RX400h. We may have to wait for at least a year or so to hear more about that vehicle. Honda is a tight lipped company after all.
Few weeks ago, I checked oil on my Accord EX 95 I4 it did burn some oil after 350 miles high speed highway drive. Today, I checked oil again after about 400+ miles it has not burned any oil. It is really misterious."
viet,
The oil pressure level changes when you drive. If you check the level right after you drove, it may seem different than a cold engine. It's great that you are having a great experience with you Honda. Any transmission or other problem?
Dennis
When the product is superior, it is easier to market.
Dennis
I have some clue. :-D The battery pack would cost less in ten years from now on. For example, the panasonic battery pack used in 04' Prius costs 30% less than 03' Prius.
Due to the success of hybrids, greater mass production output can be realized. The price will keep going down, not up. Competition will also drive the cost further down. Sanyo is supplying NiMH packs for HAH and Escape Hybrid. It won't take long until American manufacturers such as Ovonic join the race.
Dennis
I don't think what you heard is accurate. HCH and Insight uses D cylindrial shape NiMH cells. The same shape for the flash lights therefore, it might be possible to replace them. Maybe that's the origin of the myth.
NiMH cells in HV are not the same as consumer electronic rechargable batteries. HV cells can discharge more power, have higher energy density, and lower internal resistance.
Dennis
Capacitors loose charge quickly. Supercapacitors and Ultracapacitors hold their charge well. They are already in use in cars today. They can be found in smart box backup devices and door latches.
Dennis
Frank,
I find that sentence confusing due to multiple use of "technology". Accord Hybrid use IMA which stands for Integrated Motor Assist. It would be more accurate if you say the 16hp electric motor assists the six-cylinder 240hp gas engine.
Never mind, I read further into the review and found assisting explanation but I did not see IMA mentioned anywhere.
"When the motor is in recharge mode, a bar of green lights indicates ths function."
I found a typo. :-D
Dennis