Hybrid Honda Accord

electrictroy

I don't think the Accord's battery is meant to "add value".

I think the purpose is to help:
- kill the idea hybrid = small/weak/slow
- drivers adjust to the idea of owning a hybrid

10 years from now, drivers who own an Accord Hybrid will not hesitate to buy another one, because they will be comfortable with the technology.

Troy

varmint

No insult intended with the term "eco-nut".

But it appears to me that the HAH is nothing more than yet another evolution in the car market. In the 60's and 70's, American auto enthusiasts bought muscle cars. In the 80's and 90's, changes in our culture brought about the rise of the "import" style of sporting cars. The Integra and Eclipse took on the Mustang and Camaro.

SUVs used to be truck-based vehicles with full-frames and off-road hardware. Now they are unibody vehicles built for family purposes.

Station wagons... minivans.

Micro-vans... cute-utes.

Now we've got a hybrid that can perform like the best of the V6 sedans and sip fuel like a four banger. That's the best of both worlds, not a tunnel-vision focus on one goal. Just another evolution of the market.

"I feel they created a loser for a niche market."

I just wrote this, but apparently it bear repeating...

"In short, the HAH is not a car for the buyer who considers economy priority number 1. It will, however, attract those who consider performance to be a higher priority, and introduce them into the hybrid fold. No other hybrid can do that."

backy

I'll conjecture why Honda went the route they did with the first Accord hybrid. Suppose they did hybridize the 4-banger Accord. What kind of fuel economy would it achieve? Could it do better than the smaller, lighter HCH? I doubt it. How do the EPA fuel economy ratings of the HCH compare to those of the Prius? HCH's are lower. Ratings of a 4-banger Accord would be lower still. So then the HAH would be competing directly against the Prius, which would cost about the same, have higher fuel economy ratings, and more versatility (hatchback). Plus the extra "bonus" (depending on your preferences) of very unique styling that says, "Look at me, I'm green!" THAT is why I think Honda went after a different market with the HAH, at least for now. And by Marketing 101, I think it's a smart move--you don't go after an entrenched competitor and take them head-on unless you have a 3:1 advantage. Honda would not have that with a 4-cylinder HAH vs. the Prius. So they used the flanking strategy. Time will tell if it is successful.

stevedebi

"My idea of a practical hybrid is an Accord that gets 40-45 mpg. That to me is a more noble goal and more in line with the CAFE standards,"

Huh? Last time I checked, the passenger CAFE standard was 27.5 MPG, right?

robertsmx

My idea of a practical hybrid is an Accord that gets 40-45 mpg. That to me is a more noble goal and more in line with the CAFE standards, than just building a fast hybrid that does not solve any of the problems with our environment.

Accord Hybrid isn’t designed to be the savior of the environment. Before you go about telling us about noble goals, how do you come up with these standards?

It seems that Honda missed the mark with this new Accord.

To figure that out, you have to understand what the target is! This is no shooting in the dark contest.

If they would have gone for the great mileage and emissions ratings then added a V6 version for those that race around our streets it would be understandable.

Honda already tries to do the best it can meeting or beating fuel economy and emissions requirements as is financially feasible. Offering more performance with lower fuel economy is a bad idea? You’re making it sound like 24/34 mpg is identical to 30/37 mpg and there is absolutely no improvement. And that is just, sad.

To me having a car that handles as good as an Accord and getting close to the Prius in mileage would have been a true WINNER!
An idea: Get base Prius, and go for after market suspension tuning (if a TRD package isn’t available). In handling department, as well as fuel economy, Civic Hybrid isn’t a slouch either. It handles well, and can get you 45 mpg. If you get CVT however, remember to run it in Economy mode. Then you could approach 50 mpg.

robertsmx

I expect it to drive like a Honda motor. And that, believe me, is a good thing. I could understand a bias for RWD over FWD, but I simply don’t see overpaying for the “Bavarian motor”.

aspesisteve

I just read through the past 20-30 recent posts and I'm not sure I heard one comment about the Accord hybrid from someone who actually owns one.

Can someone vouge for the gas milege, performance and what did the car cost???

thanks,

gagrice

Can someone vouge for the gas milege, performance and what did the car cost???

They are not on the market yet. I think robertmx has driven one. All this rhetoric and arguing is based a couple articles that have been written. We are just killing time till it hits the market on 12/4/04... So if you buy one you can tell us if it is any good or not...

Kirstie_H

LOL! That's why this discussion is located in the "future vehicles" category!

extech

I agree. Before buying our V6 4-door Accord, I couldn't decide between the Cadillac V6 SRX and the Infinity FX 35, also V6. These cars were close to forty thousand dollars. By pure curiosity, I drove a V6 (non-hybrid) Accord, and it was quicker, more nimble and more comfortable; I bought it the same day. It doesn't have quite the space what an SUV would provide, but for the fifteen thousand dollars we saved, I will get used to it. My only concern with the new hybrid is that it's such a complex technology, that only the dealership will be able to service it, and even they will have problems in the first 3 to 4 years, until they get more experience. I'm afraid the first major repair bill will wipe out all the money saved on gasoline, when the car is past the warranty period.

varmint

The only thing that could boggle the mind of an ordinary mechanic is the electricals. The V6, transmission, and everything else is pretty much standard Accord hardware.

gagrice

When they went to computerized controls in modern vehicles they took all but basic maintenance away from the shade tree mechanic.

varmint

At that level, there's no difference between an Accord and the Accord hybrid. I assumed the poster was referring to the difference between taking the car to an independent vs a dealer.

gagrice

I was referring to working on the car at home vs using a professional. I would not attempt to work on a modern vehicle without the diagnostic computers that are required to check even basic functions.

gagrice

Guangzhou Honda may soon begin production of Accord hybrids, according to Zeng Qinghong, executive vice-president of the venture.

As noted earlier, Guangzhou Honda Automobile Co.(GHAC) is a joint venture between Honda and Guangzhou Auto Group. The JV is building a new plant with an annual capacity of 120,000 units, due to be operational in the latter half of 2006.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/11/honda_may_soon_.html

rfruth

C&D s credibity ain't that great in my book, wonder what they think of the HAH ? - snip - The hybrid that always could have happened finally did. This is a performance car that gets excellent mileage, too. In the Honda line, this is the best Accord, just as the Civic hybrid is the best Civic. But the Accord pushes the envelope to include 0-to-60 in 6.7 seconds in a comfy five-passenger sedan while, according to the EPA, achieving 30 mpg city, 37 highway. Yes! Consider: The four-cylinder automatic Accord does only 24 city and 34 highway. With today's technology, only a hybrid could hit all of these marks.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- - - id=8779

crawfish

Toyota has said they are going to put hybrid into all line of their cars. I believe it is even easier for Honda to do the same -- Accord and civic already, Pilot...next?

So not too far in the future, hybrid will be a feature like ABS in every car.

tds1

Anyone know when the price will be announced or are we waiting until 12/4 (doesn't it show up at dealers then?)

backy

The debut is December 3. Just a few more days to wait for the official price.

viet

I just called a local Honda dealer about 1 hour ago. They said they will have the HAH on 12/15.

backy

Did you ask why they aren't getting one until Dec. 15 when the nationwide release date is Dec.3?

viet

I talked to those sale guys including the Internet Sales Manager many times. The Manager said the 12/3 is the release date and departure date from Japan. Some small dealers said they have the HAH in Jan/05. Some other dealers said they have it on 12/3. I do not know what is going on.

backy

It sounds like some dealers don't know what's going on either! Looks to me like Honda is trying to heighten interest in the HAH by being as mysterious as possible about it, and releasing cars in a trickle.

viet

One thing common with all dealers I have contacted with is they have all asked for MSRP for higher.

michael2003

According to the New York Times, the car is slightly delayed due to an earthquate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/28/automobiles/28AUTO.html?ex=1259- 384400&en=37882acd2b090e22&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt

backy

If the article is correct, the EPA city rating for the HAH is now 29, not 30 as reported earlier.

viet

Hi Backy:

Please do not worry about the accuracy of the EPA. It depends on the way you drive and the condition of your car. I always get 30-32 plus MPG on highway for my Accord I4 even though the EPA indicates 22-28. My V6 gets 30-32 plus MPG on highway even though the EPA indicates 21-30 because I always keep my Accords in top operating conditions. Also, I drive like "an old conservative, middle-aged man"...as Honda put it on their bragging advertisement for their HAH.

 I hope the HAH will give us a bit more than 255 HP. Honda is somewhat conservative to announce the MPG and the HP. My 10 year old I4 Accord always give me the MPG I expect. It is awesome. I am going to buy 2 HAH to enrich my collection of Accords. I love its 8 airbags, its stereo and the voice activated NAV and everything on the HAH.

Followings are some "silly" quotes:

"Those (Honda Accord) engines love to REV".

"Honda manual tranny shifts like butter in...Heaven".

"The Accors V6 Coupe won first in the race between Accord, Camry and Passat" (I bought 1 for my 18 year old son last year. Now I have to wash it and check on it so often).

"I love the Accord (Hybrid) roominess, its HP, the amenities and the well thoughts of Honda's intelligent engineers...The Accord meets all my requirements and expectations".

"Accord's seats are so comfortable...much better than other cars. I hate the PT Cruiser's seats. They are hard like rock".

"HAH will be one of the top ten cars on the list evaluated by auto critics".

Now, my problem is how to buy one HAH on Dec 10 or sooner. Some dealers said they will have it in the last week of Nov. 04.

crawfish

HAH commercial aired sometime during the Sunday Night Football game. Too bad I only caught the last second.

It is coming...

viet

5 minutes ago, I just happened watching an ad. on TV channel 36 about the "All New Accord Hybrid" with 29/37 MPG.

viet

I saw another TV commercial of the HAH with 29/37 MPG, 255HP. The dealer called me for the "HAH demonstration".

dewey

Congratulations Viet,

I can feel the excitement of your anticipation by reading your posts.

viet

Sorry, I called them and verified that they have not had the HAH in stock. Hopefully, this Dec 10 is the "big day".

viet

The dealer called me and confirmed they have the HAH on Saturday 12/4/04. Honda is right on schedule. I do need to show my great appreciation to Honda talented engineers by driving this HAH real hard, make real sharp turns and race it...Just kidding! I am going to "pamper" it as I have "pampered" my line of Accords.

The HAH commercial is everywhere now including CNN's homepage.

wco81

Which part of the country is that?

Please post if you pay MSRP or higher.

sweetbaboo

i called john holtz honda and dick ide honda in Rochester, NY and they quoted me $30,5000
don't think it included the NAV

robertsmx

Honda hasn’t disclosed the MSRP (officially) yet. Sounds like the dealer is quoting MSRP + destination based on gut feel.

jbeall

I have read all the postings for the last two months. I decided to buy the Accord EXV6. I have a 98 Accord which has 119000 miles and is still in great shape. The new Accord EXV6 has a lot more on it standard than my 98. I also got a great deal. 38 dollars over invoice and 10% off all the accessories. I bought fenderwell trim, door guards, gold emblem, splash guards, half nose mask, cargo net, and deck lid spoiler. All for 27256 which includes all taxes, documentary fees, and license plate tags. I also got a $100 gas car and ten free oil changes, car care kit, first dent removal free and a three day vacation. I bought my new car over the internet at Jay Honda in Bedford Ohio. I could not see paying at least sticker price for the HAH. I will see how the HAH does and will maybe trade my 98 in in about 3-4 years.

sweetbaboo

holtz and dick ide both each have one on the lot...holtz claimed to have sold theirs...dick ide did not...they said they probably wouldn't get another one until january...both quoted 30.5k

viet

The reasons I want to buy the AH asap:

1- The federal tax deductible of $2,000 for 2004. I just emailed President Bush and Vice President Cheney reminding them keeping their promise to give buyers of hybrid vehicles of $4,000.

2- Solid quality of Honda's engines. 7th generation Accord/ AH engine is very much similar to BMW engine. Most wires are hiding under light weight aluminum covers. 255 HP is strong. All my friends who own Accord V6 2004 are so happy with their cars.

3- All my Accords have performed excellently to my satisfactory. "My Accord engines love to rev and to accelerate". My 200K mile 95 EX I4 still runs very strong without any problems due to my dedicated "pampering services" to my "babies". The other 2 V6 EX are superb and truly "The Kings of the Roads" as Road & Track put it.

4- Many new technology on the AH. VCM, ICE, 3 engines on cruise, 6 engines shutting down at stop lights, 0-60 miles on 6.5 sec., roominess, IMS (no spare tires), 8 air bags, nice stereo system, NAVI., high resale value, low maintenance cost, super smooth engines, good MPG, etc. It is hard to resist those nice features.

5- Price is a little bit high but it is still affordable and should be OK. Camry, BMV 318, 325, Benz CL class are still behind the AH on those hybrid technology, the nice amenities and price.

6- I need an extra reliable car so my 16 year old son can drive my "big boxy EX V6" to school in winters instead of walking to school every early morning.

7- I was a bit paranoid with the insurance bill sent to me last night of $5,000/ year on 3 cars, 2 adults and 2 young drivers in my household. I called the Auto Insurance Company immediately and the premium went down a little bit after my "desperate explanation" that my young sons as "top and career minded students...". It was a...horrile bill.

gagrice

The federal tax deductible of $2,000 for 2004. I just emailed President Bush and Vice President Cheney reminding them keeping their promise to give buyers of hybrid vehicles of $4,000.

So far they have not extended the $2000 tax deduction on any hybrids other than the first three. Insight, HCH & Prius. Ford is waiting on word for the Escape hybrid. I imagine they will have to test the HAH for emissions before they grant that deduction. The only cars that get the $4000 Tax CREDIT are all electric vehicles. That is based on the price of the vehicle. For a $20,000 electric golf cart you would get a $2000 tax credit.

viet

In CA. the one-driver Civic and Prius can legally run in the car pool lane but the AH will not be permitted to. But all Hybrids will get a free parking stickers at city's parking meters in San Jose. After you drive the Accord V6 you do not like to drive the Civic and the Accord I4 any more. You love the V6's power, acceleration. torque and everything...

crawfish

Please post your review here. Thanks.

electrictroy

"1- The federal tax deductible of $2,000 for 2004. I just emailed President Bush and Vice President Cheney reminding them keeping their promise to give buyers of hybrid vehicles of $4,000."

.

I'd rather have a *credit* than a deduction. A $2000 credit saves you $2000. A deduction only saves ~$600.

Troy

stevedebi

"In CA. the one-driver Civic and Prius can legally run in the car pool lane but the AH will not be permitted to. "

Uh, not quite. It is against federal law for hybrids to use the HOV lanes, and it is not yet allowed, pending Washington approval.

run_n_late

There are a few dealers that have the car already and he was right the car is about $30,598 with out the Nav. I was able to drive the one here in Chicago and I must say that I was shocked at how well it drove. It feels like a real car not a hybrid in the way it accelerated and drove. The only way I could tell it was a hybrid is because when you come to a stop the engine cuts off. Which after 4-5 stoplight you become used to it. Placed my order for one with nav that I will get around Feb.

tx_bbq

Saw one at an Austin dealer last night, $29,990 + $510 Destination = $30500... the silver one looked good.

larsb

Reminder for those shopping ASAP:

HONDA ACCORD HYBRID Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan Estimated price as tested: $32,000 (estimated base price: $30,000) Options on test car: navigation system. Major standard accessories: power windows, driver seat, and locks; remote locking; A/C; cruise control; tilting and telescoping steering wheel; rear defroster
Sound system: Honda AM-FM-XM satellite radio/CD changer, 6 speakers
ENGINE: Type: V-6, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 3.39 x 3.39 in, 86.0 x 86.0mm
Displacement: 183 cu in, 2997cc
Compression ratio: 10.5:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Valve gear: belt-driven single overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder
Power (SAE net): 240 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 217 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm
Redline: 6500 rpm

ELECTRIC MOTOR: Type: 3-phase AC permanent-magnet synchronous electric motor powered by 120 1.2-volt nickel-metal hydride batteries Power (SAE net): 16 bhp @ 840 rpm Torque (SAE net): 100 lb-ft @ 840 rpm

DRIVETRAIN: Transmission: 5-speed automatic
Final-drive ratio: 4.38:1 Gear, Ratio, Mph/1000 rpm, Max test speed I, 2.69, 6.5, 42 mph (6500 rpm) II, 1.57, 11.1, 72 mph (6500 rpm) III, 1.02, 17.0, 110 mph (6500 rpm) IV, 0.73, 23.8, 131 mph (5500 rpm) V, 0.53, 32.8, 131 mph (4000 rpm)

DIMENSIONS: Wheelbase: 107.9 in Track, front/rear: 61.1/61.2 in Length/width/height: 189.5/71.5/57.1 in Ground clearance: 6.1 in
Drag area, Cd (0.29) x frontal area (25.3 sq ft, est): 7.3 sq ft Curb weight: 3513 lb Weight distribution, F/R: 61.3/38.7% Curb weight per horsepower: 13.8 lb
 
Fuel capacity: 17.1 gal

CHASSIS/BODY: Type: unit construction Body material: welded steel stampings
INTERIOR: SAE volume, front seat: 57 cu ft rear seat: 46 cu ft luggage: 11 cu ft Front-seat adjustments: fore-and-aft, seatback angle; driver only: front height, rear height, lumbar support
Restraint systems, front: manual 3-point belts; driver and passenger front, side, and curtain airbags rear: manual 3-point belts, curtain airbags

SUSPENSION: Front: ind, unequal-length control arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear: ind, 3 lateral links and 2 diagonal links per side, coil springs, anti-roll bar

STEERING: Type: rack-and-pinion with electric power assist Steering ratio: 16.3:1 Turns lock-to-lock: 3.2 Turning circle curb-to-curb: 36.9 ft

BRAKES: Type: regenerative electric and electrohydraulic by wire with anti-lock control
Front: 11.1 x 0.9-in vented disc Rear: 10.2 x 1.4-in disc

WHEELS AND TIRES: Wheel size/type: 6.5 x 16 in/cast aluminum Tires: Michelin Energy MXV4 S8, P215/60R-16 94V M+S Test inflation pressures, F/R: 32/32 psi Spare: none

ACCELERATION Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 2.5
40 mph: 3.5
50 mph: 5.0
60 mph: 6.7
70 mph: 8.7
80 mph: 11.5
90 mph: 14.4
100 mph: 17.6
110 mph: 22.6
120 mph: 29.0
130 mph: 37.2
Street start, 5-60 mph: 7.6
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 4.0
50-70 mph: 5.1
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.2 sec @ 93 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph

BRAKING: 70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 193 ft

HANDLING: Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.78 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive

FUEL ECONOMY: EPA city driving: 30 mpg EPA highway driving: 37 mpg

INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL: Idle (internal-combustion engine off): 32 dBA Full-throttle acceleration: 69 dBA 70-mph cruising: 68 dBA

xcel

Hi All:

___I just got back from the Honda dealership about 2 hours ago ... They had an AH just off the truck in initial prep stage. They would not let me take it for a drive unfortunately. The head mechanic said it is going right onto the showroom floor once prepped.

___I did boot it up however and there were 2 things I noticed. The first is that its SoC was showing 0. As soon as the mechanic lit it off, I saw a 4 bar forced charge begin to bring the pack up. This is probably a std. practice with Hybrid’s being prepped but I have not seen this before? The second item and the one I was disappointed in was that there was no instantaneous in the gauge cluster. You had the rudimentary straight up average mpg but no readout for the instantaneous. That is unless I missed it but it wasn’t there from what I saw? This allows very little opportunity for the average AH owner to learn unless they purchase it w/ NAVI in which case they can use its instantaneous instead. That is if they order the NAVI and use its FCD?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

hybridfan2

Drove one without NAV tonight. Amazingly quick acceleration, smooth and very quiet ride. I couldn't notice any changes in the engine while cruising on the highway. A few downers though- the trunk is very tiny, no spare tire, no back seat - trunk pass through, no moon roof and the mpg isn't instantaneous (wierd). The price is $30,500, firm. 29 mpg city, 37 highway. Otherwise the same as the 2005 Accord non-hybrid. My daughter has the HCH which has been running extremely well for the first 25,000 miles. I'm not sure if the HAH is a good value or not.

gagrice

HAH approximately $30,500 without NAV.
HAH With NAV $32,500?
San Diego Prices without arm twisting:
EX with leather, NAV, moonroof 4 cylinder $25,500
EX with leather, NAV, moonroof, V6 $27,500

The very least you will save on a comparable V6 Accord is $5000 if you are interested in MPG more than 0-60 you can save $7000. PLUS have a moonroof and bigger trunk than the HAH.

The difference between 34 and 37 mpg equals $477 over 100k miles. Your looking at way over 1 million miles before the hybrid Accord pays for itself. Plus the 2.4L Accord is a 10 SULEV II rated car equal to the HAH or maybe better.