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Comments
Not near peak power, but near peak torque (at all times).
Anyone know when these HAHs will be in showrooms?
Octane requirement should remain regular like the Accord V6.
The battery and engine peak at very different rpm, so I don't think they'll gang up on the front axle and create too much torque steer.
-juice
Taffeta White----Ivory Leather
Graphite Pearl---Gray Leather
Desert Mist Metallic---Ivory Leather
Silver Frost Metallic---Gray Leather (a new color forthe Accord)
-juice
1. Will there be a manual version of the 4 door HAH?
2. What is the release date?
Thanks.
1. MT can get better fuel economy.
2. MT exists for the engine.
Hopefully, Accord will lead the way into introduction of sport sedans using hybrid technology... getting more power and better fuel economy!
Release date may be with the 2005 Accord (Sep/Oct).
But I hope he's right.
-juice
Also, manuals today offer a very small increase in gas mileage over automatics. Automatics are becoming more and more efficient with the addition of more gears.
The elimination of gears entirely makes them even more efficient.
Cone & Belt CVT is beginning to show up in a couple of non-hybrid vehicles now.
JOHN
-juice
“Following the announcement in February that Honda had acquired a non-exclusive licence of certain of Antonov’s patents for world-wide use, technical meetings have been held with Honda to review Honda’s test results. These have proved extremely positive. Prototyping of a potential product developed by Honda using the licensed technology is underway.”
Related News Item
Could it be used in Accord Hybrid (or RL)? A little bit of PR news
“As with all Antonov AAD designs, low cost is an inherent advantage. An independent estimate of the 6-speed AAD's production cost is US$675 per unit, a large reduction compared with the US$1,000+ cost of the conventional 6-speed automatic.
Independent testing indicates that Antonov's 6-speed AAD is environmentally friendly, achieving up to 30% fuel efficiency gains over current production auto boxes. Advanced control technologies allow full adaptation to needed engine and car performance strategies.”
-juice
Prius uses a Planetary-CVT, which has nothing in common with the other kind.
JOHN
I doubt Accord Hybrid will have CVT though. Probably too much power and torque for the design. It will either use the 5-speed automatic, or perhaps the 6-speed "AAD" mentioned earlier. It won't be a big deal for Honda to offer 6-sp manual either.
Relevant specifications
For Passat TDI...
Engine: 2.0-liter I-4 TDI (134 HP, 247 lb.-ft)
Curb Weight: 3450 lb
EPA Mileage Rating: 27 mpg/38 mpg
For Accord Hybrid...
Engine: 3.0-liter V6 IMA (255 HP, 250 lb.-ft*)
Curb Weight: 3450 lb**
EPA Mileage Rating: 32 mpg/38 mpg***
* Likely
** Assuming 100 lb. weight gain
*** Expected
I expect the Accord V6 to be far smoother than the TDI in the Passat to go with it. IMO, HAH wins rather easily (unless my assumptions are way off).
The TDI will be discounted, while the HAH will demand MSRP for a while. The real different is more than $1000, may even be $3000. That'll buy your fuel for a life time.
The HAH should outperform it easily, though. Reliability should be better, but any new hybrid carries some risk.
Interesting how similar they are in that chart, though.
-juice
Another promise that AAD transmission holds (link above). If Honda is indeed preparing a 6 (or 8) speed AAD for a near future launch, it can makes things quite interesting. An AAD design can eliminate the need for torque convertor.
Michael
___You can see all there is to see on the Honda site in regards to the 2005 Accord’s. The updated 2005 info was posted I believe this morning. Dual Auto climate appears to be missing from all but the V6 EX this year? Dual Zone Auto Climate is shown as std. w/ the EX w/ leather in the individual trim levels just like the 2004 however? All versions now include side and curtain airbags. Also lighted window, lock, and steering wheel controls on the EX +. These are the two biggies anyway. There is a different tail light assembly and the price rose by a few hundred bucks but overall, the 2005 appears to be a better overall deal now imho.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
- All Honda and Acura vehicles, with the exception of a small number of specialty vehicles, will get Front Side Airbags, Side Curtain Airbags and Anti-Lock Brakes as standard equipment before the end of calendar year 2006.
- All Honda and Acura light trucks, including all SUVs and minivans, will be equipped with Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) and rollover sensors for side curtain airbag deployment before the end of calendar year 2006.
- Honda's Advanced Compatibility Engineering body structure, offering enhanced occupant protection with reduced aggressivity toward other vehicles, will be applied to all new vehicle platforms in the U.S. and globally over the next six to seven years. The 2005 model Honda Odyssey minivan and Acura RL sedan will be the first U.S. models to carry this new technology.
In its efforts to improve safety for all road users, Honda will further expand the use of features designed to reduce injuries to pedestrians from the current industry-leading eight models.
I think the Passat already has that stuff, and Toyota already does that for its SUVs. So they're not exactly pioneering anything.
-juice
In case of Honda’s promise, it is more about offering these things across the board, including the lowest trims. Even (2005) Accord DX would have ABS, side airbags and side curtain airbags as standard equipment. I wonder if 2005 Civic will get all these too.
Fact is Honda has been notorious for *NOT* offering safety features on its base models, the DX for instance, and in some cases in the past, even the LX.
Now they are trying to make it sound like it's a big deal that the Accord will finally get what the Passat has had since 1998 or so.
The way I see it, it's Johnny Come Lately. Not pioneer.
In the case of the Civic, well, even then I think the Jetta was way, way ahead of the game. Subaru Impreza also, since 2002 ABS was standard. Even GM made ABS standard, but later deleted that to compete in price with the Koreans.
-juice
And everything that an automaker does, is to deliver a marketing pitch.
I guess the thing is I've been frustrated many time in the past when car shopping several Hondas. LXs didn't come with ABS, and when they did you couldn't get a manual tranny.
This was true for the Civic, Accord, and CR-V, all which I shopped at some point in time in the last decade or so. Basically they tend to package safety equipment only higher-end models.
Maybe Honda is making up for it by adding SAC and VSA on base models as well, but I still see them as catching up rather than leading the pack.
-juice
___Let us look at this from another direction The lowly 05 Corolla LE w/ Auto as an example can be purchased with side and side curtains, ABS, EBD, VSC, TRAC, and TPM. You are looking at an ~ $16,000 automobile when purchased as any automobile enthusiast would purchase it at close to invoice pricing. The 05 Camry can be purchased with all of these + BA. Even the 05 Accord EX unless you purchase the overly expensive V6 let alone the Civic of any trim doesn’t receive BA, TRAC, TPM, or its own version of stability control/assist called VSA as std. or even as an option! You have to purchase an EX trimmed Civic just to receive ABS? This makes absolutely no sense! Honda is woefully behind the times in regards to safety items and it will eventually bite them on the lower trims and compacts if they don’t get with the program imho. They still receive stunning crash ratings which are a testament to Honda engineering but lacking all of the above or only placing them in the most expensive of trims (the Accord EX/LX V6/EX V6) is a glaring example of penny pinching at its finest. It is funny how a $16,000 Toyota Corolla can be purchased with all of the above and a $16,000 Civic or $22,000 Accord cannot? This is just one of many reasons I decided to purchase an 03 Corolla LE w/ Auto back in 03 instead of a Civic LX/EX.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
We had just as much trouble with the Camry. SE manual trannys were scarce and forget about ABS, we tried 3 dealers before giving up.
So they may have a la carte ordering but dealers are still pinching pennies on optional safety features.
Our conclusion was that at Honda you had to get an EX and/or an automatic, with Toyota you pretty much had to special order it.
We got a 2002 Subaru. They haven't sold any cars without ABS since 2002 (Legacy since 1999), so it was easy.
Wagon or sedan? Manual or auto? Pick a color, any color, they have them all. With ABS.
Honda will offer that (minus the wagon) for MY2007, 8 years behind the Legacy, and that's news?
-juice
How much did Legacy cost in 1999-2000? If it were a $20K or less car, then I agree, Honda wasn’t offering ABS as standard feature (optional in LX, and standard above it). You shouldn’t compare cars without consideration to pricing.
At the time an Accord EX would have run about $19k, and like I said we could not even find a Camry SE the way we wanted it but it would have been $18k or more.
Any how, Honda's PR spiel didn't impress me one bit, perhaps the hybrid itself will. I liked the Prius a lot.
-juice
I thought somebody mentioned a December release for the HAH. If that is the case, you may have to wait a little longer.
juice:
I assume the price paid was not MSRP.