I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

ateixeira

I wonder how much of that pricing is due to taxation? I'm not familiar with import duties for cars in Europe.

I don't think they should focus there at all - go to Brazil, China, and India. Those markets have growth potential. In Brazil Hyundai never had the baggage it had here, so it's veiwed as a premium (not luxury) brand. A Santa Fe costs more than a RAV4 in Brazil, while here Hyundai tends to price cars lower than Toyota.

fintail

I don't think it was taxes that made a Grandeur shoot past 40K Euro...it was all the result of arrogant execs who don't understand markets.

Europe will embrace small cars from just about anyone - Fiat still sells em as fast as they can make em no matter their poor quality past. But as size goes up, so do expectations and traditions. Those growth markets in this globalized world would give a better return for the effort, no doubt.

fintail

Last piece of material I had showed a top spec Grandeur retailing at 43K Euro in Germany. Of course, that was MSRP, and the 5er/E/A6 you could buy for the same wouldn't exactly be top of the line, but still. Someone got ahead of themselves.

fintail

Saw an R350 Bluetec today...not a common sight

ateixeira

Those growth markets in this globalized world would give a better return for the effort, no doubt.

On that note....

AN headline: Nissan plans $1.42B Brazil plant, aims to triple market share

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111006/OEM01/111009933/1492- #ixzz1a7kmWRqu

Note the part about 10% growth for 5 years in a row. Not a bad idea.

Hyundai should build the new Accent in a Mercosul country, to bypass the was-high-now-even-higher cost of importing cars.

ateixeira

Saw a black one, going home this time, but it was black so I bet it's the same one I saw last time, and what seems to be the only one driving around the DC area.

ateixeira

Also saw a Plymouth Prowler last night, bright yellow. The funny part is it had been pulled over by a motorcycle cop.

qbrozen

A prowler actually showed up at the autoX last week.

As a matter of fact, here it is.

fintail

I remember when the Prowler was introduced, a friend of mine compared it to these, making jokes



That's not the kind of Prowler I wanted!

tifighter

And also worth noting: the NA, European and Japanese car markets are flat, flat, flat. I doubt Hyundai really cares about how the Azera or Genesis compares to a 5er in Europe. It would be like trying to develop the world's first flat screen HD black and white TV: not quite relevant.

fintail

But will something as relatively bland and invisible sell in so-called developing markets?

Hyundai must not care with its bizarre pricing strategy. Why even bother offering the cars at all, nobody in their right mind would pick a Grandeur over even the lowest spec 5er/E/A6, especially when the latter are actually marginally cheaper.

stever

I thought sure I spotted a Prowler today, but it turned out to be one of those old chopped street rods in fire engine red.

fintail

I saw that Lamborghini again today, also saw 2x new C-class coupe, a CLS63, and an SLS which I was able to sit in (I visited the dealer).

Very nice salesman who I spoke with for some time said A and B class will be here within 3 years.

robr2

Spotted Friday night in traffic one of my favorite cars from the 80's:

fintail

I'll admit I like the bustlebacks too, although I am a little ashamed.

I'd like to see a retro version of that today.

stever

My first sighting.

tifighter

Everyone remembers their first...

berri

I'll admit I like the bustlebacks too, although I am a little ashamed.

Why? They were unique at the time and a bit of a throwback to the classics of the 30's. I'll unabashedly state I liked their look!

fintail

They tend to be kind of gaudy, but the one I would want would have no vinyl top, no wire wheels, no whitewalls, no faux Rolls grille, no faux spare on the trunk, etc. They could actually be ordered relatively tastefully. Same for the 79-85 Eldo, which must have had the same designer involved with both.

stever

I've did a 12 hour Saturday and a 9 hour one today and managed to spot just one car I've never seen. I guess the Heartland and the South are just a bit boring. Did see a Solstice; haven't seen one of those for over a year.

berri

They could actually be ordered relatively tastefully. Same for the 79-85 Eldo, which must have had the same designer involved with both.

Face it, you're just a Euro type person. I wonder if lemko prefers it with or without the vinyl top??? I'm not into vinyl tops, but I could live with the wire wheels and fake spare (can't help the latter - I'm a Virgil Exner fan!).!

I actually liked that vintage Riv better than the Eldo, but they were both nice looking cars.

berri

Steve - the heartland is the rust belt and in the south they drive them til they fall apart (or wreck 'em) and then dispose of them in the backyard - just kidding!

fintail

I like bric a brac on period cars - it's fine on a 58 Olds, not so much on a car from 25 years later IMO. I know the Eldo and Seville could be ordered with some kind of sport wheels, blackwalls, one tone paint, etc...that's how I would do it. I don't know if lemko would want the "full Florida"...he doesn't approve of the stuff on new Caddies anyway.

I think that era Eldo has a pleasing angularity to it, good use of straight lines.

stever

It doesn't help that all sedans pretty much look alike to me. The most interesting rig I spotted was an old "commercial" looking Toyota minivan, the ugly one that wasn't the Previa. It was tooling along at 70 mph on the interstate near the Gatlinburg exit and was mostly rust free. Saw a barn door Countryman and followed a nice cream colored Mini Cooper S for a few miles too. My sister wants one of those real bad. They sure look small among all the semis.

berri

Mini Cooper

...but I thought they road like a truck - you feel every bump and tar strip

andys120

I'd like to see a retro version of that today.

A retro version of a retro design? :confuse: :sick:

imidazol97

>an old "commercial" looking Toyota minivan,

I'm trying to picture what van this is. I recall early vans that looked like they were on a narrow tread width--too narrow. But I can't find a picture in Google.

Anyone got a picture?

It is amazing some of the cars that survive in the Tennessee weather. We used to visit Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg frequently and saw lots of cars that didn't make it in Ohio/Indiana salt and winter.

stever

They looked liked the Mitsu vans of the same era. You may have to scroll down in this Flickr link to get to the Toyota one. Looks like it's number 20.

texases

Google 'Toyota Van', you'll find it.

imidazol97

I found it in the flickr links with 4 headlights. I was thinking an earlier van with single headlights that looked to be on a narrow tread from a small car with the van larger than the width of the tread would suggest. I might have been thinking VW.

ateixeira

High school buddy of mine had one of those. Interior was pretty neat, very flexible configuration. It had a gigantic moonroof, too. It was his bachelor pad, basically.

It actually drove well. Could turn on a dime. Lasted forever, too. In fact you still see those running around in Chinatown in New York for food delivery.

Those were the old school Toyotas you simply could not kill.

ateixeira

Saw 2 neat ones...

Audi R8, up in Gaithersburg.

Then this morning, top down no less....

Aston Martin DB7 V12. At least the license plates identified it that way.

ateixeira

Audi A5 coupe.

Mini Cooper Countryman, albeit not the AWD model.

fintail

It could be interesting. Maybe not good, but interesting. The bustleback wasn't really a retro Caddy anyway - it didn't minic a previous Caddy, as it was made in the era of pretentiousness, it aped old Rolls. I wonder if a bustleback (not just a Bangled butt) could work on a modern car.

Saw the A7 of the dentist across the street this morning.

ateixeira

Sort of odd looking, but not in a bad way.

fintail

Of course not, it's a Hyundai, they do nothing bad :shades:

It's not bad, nor good, it's just kind of there. A good quirky cheapish car.

tifighter

Saw a Noble M12 today, silver. Can't be many of those in the US...

ateixeira

It has the Accent powertrain. They really need to put a turbo in it or something. 138hp does not stand out in any way, and it's priced higher than the Accent so while the Accent has class-leading power, the Veloster doesn't stand out besides the weird 3 door arrangement.

ateixeira

I don't think the shape works well with the CLS. You sort of lose the style of the sedan/coupe, and don't really gain a very practical shape, either.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/12/mercedes-benz-cls-shooting-brake-reveals-its-- rakish-rump/

fintail

Reminds me of a chopped and squished R-class. The rear pillar area is too heavy.

fintail

I look at it as kind of a Hyundai Scion. In many ways it is just different for the sake of being different - like the Soul. Isn't there talk of a turbo coming? Put that Sonata etc turbo in it, then it could be interesting.

ateixeira

It is a very difficult shape to get right. Even the FF is homely, and that's Italian...AWD...I should be drooling, but I'm not.

ateixeira

It's basically a 3 door Accent. Hyundai just figured they could sell more if they made it look unique. At least they gave it a hatch.

Most people would just pick the 5 door Accent, I suppose, but I guess their market research suggests less overlap if they did this oddball coupe.

I don't think it needs 270+hp, it's small and light. 180hp or so would be plenty if they kept it light. They have the Genesis coupe if you wanna go big on power, that thing's getting the 333hp DI version of the 3.8l V6.

I think a Veloster at 138hp, then 180hp or so, then step up to a 2l Turbo Gen coupe or the V6. They've got good spacing and every price category covered that way.

tifighter

Interesting Veloster review from TTAC-

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/10/414338/

texases

There goes MB, mangling the vernacular again - didn't a 'brake' used to have 2 doors? I guess if a 'coupe' can have 4 doors, so can a 'brake'. :mad:

At least this article used the right spelling! 'Break' just doesn't read right, even if it was used.

fintail

Well, to be fair, it is a lot sportier looking and "cooler" than any Accent - the latter model name being one with very little equity. I think it's for someone who wants unique and cheap. It's like a modern (aka fatter, heavier, uglier) less sporty CRX. 180hp would be fine.

I like Hyundai's strategy, the good engine is always just around the corner, the new model is always just good enough to make you feel stupid about buying the one you have :shades:

fushigi

I think a Veloster at 138hp, then 180hp or so, then step up to a 2l Turbo Gen coupe or the V6.

A turbocharged version of the Elantra's DI 1.8 should be good for 180-210HP easily without much of an economy penalty, say 26 city/37 highway. The 1.8 feels pretty good in my wife's new Elantra. The power delivery & smoothness are, IMO, a good match for the size & type of vehicle.

Then again, Nissan is getting 188HP from their turbo 1.6 in the Juke so maybe apply a turbo to the regular Veloster's 1.6 powerplant would be sufficient (though the Juke does want premium gas).

ateixeira

CRX-inspired, yes, in fact the rear window even reminds me of one.

Think of this as the CRX HF. If you recall, that was the fuel sipper. My roommate had one of those. It could barely get out of its own way, but I don't ever recall her buying gas, LOL.

The turbo would be the modern day CRX Si. Hyundai hopes so.

ateixeira

Juke power levels would be fine. This is lighter and lacks AWD. Too much and you'll get torque steer and it will try to rip the front half of the car away from the back half.

magnette

I was in Old Street, East London this morning, and apart from a couple of nice older classics (there is a classic car club near there where you can pay an annual membership and get to drive all sorts of older machinery) there was what looked like a film or promotion event going on, and this white McLaren - a new MP4-12C - turned in just as I was walking past. First one of those I've seen on the road....