I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

fintail

I remember the HF, beats modern hybrids.

Hyundai is kind of coming alive like Honda did in the late 80s. Let's see if they can make a 90-93 Accord.

ateixeira

I think you're being a bit nostalgic - the HF only had 62hp, and it felt slow off the line, you had to be careful not to stall it. The base CRX had 92hp, IIRC. The Si had a that's-more-like-it 108hp.

To keep things in perspective some models were under a ton.

Veloster weighs more than the Accent, while the CRX weighed less than the Civic Si. That is where the Veloster falls short.

andys120

I spotted a new Suzuki Kizashi today, the first I've seen. It's nice enough looking but the twin tailpipes are absurdly large and an odd shape.>

texases

Seems like most all makers are doing that now, they look like they're just trimmed holes in the bumper, no connection to the actual exhaust system. Audi, Lexus, and others are doing the same thing.

kyfdx

That's better than sticking on a weird-shaped tip, that later rusts out, and either looks stupid with a generic replacement, or costs $189 to replace..

ateixeira

Yeah, they're "exhaust diffusers" now, not just tips. A built-in design element, rather than a tacked on coffee can tip.

fintail

Yeah, weighed nothing. Power/weight is worth a bit, and less weight for handling.

And what did I see in an outdoor parking lot at work today - a new Veloster, silver, temporary registration.

Regarding the diffusers and fancy tips, they are just tacked on function-free bling to try to make beige look sporty. Can't say it usually works.

texases

Not just 'beige':

fintail

Well, inset exhausts aren't exactly a new thing, this is a new version of 50s cars that had them integrated into the bumper. At least those are functional, rather than every modern 4cyl midsize commuter box having duals in reality just for looks, kind of like chocolate sprinkles on vanilla ice milk.

Saw a white Volt today, and a highly optioned new Charger rental.

stever

Didn't see any vehicles plugged in, but saw a "solar powered" electric vehicle charging station in N. Chattanooga last night.

texases

These aren't what I call inset exhausts. They're chrome-trimmed rings on the bumper. Top Gear had a drag race between a 911 and an R8. One shot was of the 'exhausts' as they revved the cars. The 911 exhaust tips moved with the engine revs, the A8's trimmed bumper holes just sat there. Kinda lame to me.

fintail

So are those just dummies, with the real exhaust being the mesh covered thing at lower middle? If so, yeah, that's shameful.

texases

Nah, the exhaust pipes just end behind the holes, like on the Lexus IS-F:


Here's a pic of the Audi, better than the IS-F at least:

fintail

Oh ok...I've never noticed that on the R8...I actually sat in one once, but didn't look at details. That top pic is even worse. Style over substance always wins in the design world today. Bling, flair, jewelry.

ateixeira

One of the first sedans I've seen. Hatches seem more common (and would be my preference).

Also saw a black Fiat 500 hatch. Those J-Lo commercials sure are odd, eh?

ateixeira

Isn't the US-spec SLS similar? Par for the course I'm afraid...



http://xplorecars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/SLSrear-300x191.jpg

fintail

Designers are lemmings, although that car would have a greater chance of real pipes than R8, IMO.

ateixeira

I don't have a problem with diffusers - the chrome tips were mostly tacked on anyway, plus they flare and get wider only at the tip, which is also false advertising. They've always been fake.

I remember my '91 Ford Escort GT advertised "twin chrome exhaust tips". They tried to make a single muffler with two tacked on chrome tips sound like it was a dual exhaust.

Designers are just making it look better now.

fintail

I don't see anything wrong with the pipe ending at the rear, if it is the real shape, and connected to something. That gap irks me.

My E55 does it in an old school way - dual exhaust that ends on one side. Actually looking like less than it is. Those were the days.

texases

It's a minor hobby of mine is to compare the exhaust trim to the actual size of the exhaust pipe when I stop behind a car - it's nuts how big the tips are now, attached to a 1 1/2-2" (at most) exhaust. :sick:

ateixeira

The tacked-on tips have gaps, also, they're just smaller. To me they're no different. Coffee can exhaust to a lesser extent.

If I could design an exhaust, single or dual would not matter, just weight and actual performance. OK, sound too. Call me shallow.

ateixeira

how big the tips are now, attached to a 1 1/2-2" (at most) exhaust

That's exactly what I'm referring to, except you explained it better.

fintail

Coffee can exhaust makes needless noise - see clapped out old Civics or half of the WRXs that sell to those under 40. No function, all image.

Some gaps are bigger than others...I certainly can't put my hand between the pipe and the tip on my car like one can on the LF-A, Maybe the pipe vibrates too much and the tips would cause damage...not what I expect for almost 400K

ateixeira

And Golfs and Cobalt SSs, why pick on only Asian cars? (don't answer that, we all know why, LOL)

fintail

Where are cars from that are most prone to be douched out by their chav owners like that? Asia, of course.

What I mean by that is that Asian cars lead the world in timeless style and design, and should never be criticized. That, and the Equus really is the best car in the world.

ateixeira

There you go, stereotyping again...

I'd say any sport compact would be subject to that type of modification abuse.

Ocean City, MD has a large VW gathering a couple of times per year so I've seen more douched out Golfs than Civics in my lifetime. I know that says a lot.

ateixeira

Easy to find and plentiful for the Golf.

Note the "fake" dual outlets and the flared tips that make a 2" pipe look like dual 3":

http://image.eurotuner.com/f/news/eurp_1104_milltek_sport_vw_gti_exhaust/3079159- 1+pheader_460x1000/eurp_1104_10_z+milltek_sport_vw_gti_exhaust+rear_view.jpg

For TDI, even, dual fat tip (single narrow pipe):

http://image.europeancarweb.com/f/news/epcp_1107_2011_volkswagen_golf_tdi_mach_p- erformance_xp_exhaust_system/32869871+ppromo_large/epcp-1110-01-o-+2011-volkswag- en-golf-tdi-march-performance-xp-exhaust-system+pipe.jpg

We usually can't sleep that weekend from all the fart pipes blasting. I should find out when they have that VW event just so I can plan around it and not go.

There are hot rod weekends in the spring and fall but at least I'm listening to a V8 rumble and not the awful 1.8T trying to act tougher than it is.

ateixeira

It was Sept 24. I think I had dental surgery. Lucky me. LOL

http://www.h2oi.com/

Lots of Audis, too, many of them molested.

fintail

All cars are prone to getting messed up by owners, especially as the cars age, but as a percentage of the fleet, I would wager an awful lot of money that the ones most likely to be ...um...modified... are not from NA or Europe. Is there such a thing as a 90s Civic coupe anymore without decals, weird wheels, a fart can, a park bench spoiler or a ridiculous wing, ground scraping cladding, hilarious bright blue headlights, and so on? And some slushbox 94 Civic coupe is hardly a "sport" compact either, just don't tell that to their drivers :shades:

fintail

Most of those are Mexican built cars anyway :P

Here's how to do an exhaust - subtle, noticeable only by those who know what to look for, not pretending to be anything:

ateixeira

as a percentage of the fleet

That's precisely where I disagree.

Honda sells roughly, oh, a billion Civics.

My mom told me a million times not to exaggerate, so let's see ... Honda has sold 167k so far this year. I bet mid 90s it was higher.

VW sells about a dozen Golfs.

Again, can't live with the guilt of exaggerating, so VW sold less than 14k Golfs so far this year.

So easily more than 10 to 1 sales. Actually closer to TWELVE to 1.

You might see 10 molested Civics for every 3 Golfs, but those 3 still represent a much higher percentage of that 1/12th sized fleet.

And it's not just Golfs, it's also Jetta, A3s, A4s, anything with the 1.8T in particular. How many are chipped?

Who DIDN'T chip their 1.8T is more like it.

A Civic with a park bench spoiler offends you more so you notice them more, I get that. But you haven't not seen 1/12th as many Golfs similarly ruined? I'd agrue Golfs are over-represented by a factor of 3 or so.

The worst part is this is a gathering of water-cooled Vee Dubs, so basically you take away all the cars with personality.

Anyone want to use my condo for the weekend next September? It's free on one condition - you have to try to sleep with the windows open! LOL

fintail

I'll agree to disagree. It might also be a west coast thing. I can't throw a cat around here without hitting an old Honda of some kind with dopey modifications. You'll even see ones that are totally stock save for a loud exhaust, or my favorite, loud exhaust and automatic combo, especially sporty in something as grandmotherly as an old Accord coupe.

Chipping an engine and attaching all kinds of weight-adding junk are different ideals, to me. Most of these modified Hondas have no actual peformance gains, it is all about "look at me", these are like 4 wheeled Harleys.

ateixeira

Very likely regional variance...you probably see more WRXs because of your local weather, for instance.

Plus, this H20i event probably draws people from all over the Mid Atlantic. I swear, though, seems like half the Golfs ever built are there, and modified just as badly.

I wish they'd stop at a mere chip upgrade....

robr2

juice - you don't like Waterfest???

berri

Here's how to do an exhaust

I agree. But unfortunately its the best part of that rear end. The rest of it is so cheap and generic looking it could be a several year old Hyundai. Those taillights in particular reflect "cost cutting".

ateixeira

I'm speaking from the perspective of a condo owner who has to tolerate the endless noise from the fart pipes and street racing that literally goes on all night long.

I'd love to go see that VW Bus with the turbocharged WRX engine swap, though, sure.

Perhaps I shouldn't complain. The cops write enough tickets to keep my property taxes low.

robr2

I'm speaking from the perspective of a condo owner who has to tolerate the endless noise from the fart pipes and street racing that literally goes on all night long.

Speaking of farts, you seem to be transforming into one... :P

I guess it's like people in Weirs Beach, NH or Daytona when Bike Week comes around. In the winter, my parents rent a place about 20 miles north of Daytona right on A1A. When Bike Week rolls around, the exhaust pipes start rattling around 6 AM and don't stop until well after midnight.

jwilliams2

I agree. But unfortunately its the best part of that rear end. The rest of it is so cheap and generic looking it could be a several year old Hyundai. Those taillights in particular reflect "cost cutting".

Different strokes. I think there is a difference in a design that is simple and elegant, and one that is cheap and generic. And "cost cutting"? Not to my eyes.

ateixeira

OC has hot rod weekends in the spring and fall, and then bike week once a year, too.

Generally I like the hot rod weekends, so the noise is tolerable, but the bike and H20i events are a nuisance.

robr2

The difference I'm guessing is in the age of the owners.

Hot rodders tend to be 50+ and are not accelerating up and down the streets. The tuners are younger and like to make more noise.

Someday you'll be yelling at your son and his friends about all the humming their electric transporters make!

ateixeira

Yeah, I'll be yelling "lower those amps!"

For sure, regarding the age.

A buddy/neighbor over there owns a '64 Mustang, so the kids got to go for a little spin, and loved it.

For the most part it's quiet after midnight.

berri

Of course there is simple and elagant, and their is plain. But I agree and that's what makes car design interesting. Personally, I don't think the famous Dr. Z has been all that good for MB. I think he has allowed BMW to zoom past them in relevance. But I do like some of the latest MB stuff.

berri

The only thing quiet about Daytona in the first three months of the year are the Canadians! January is bikers, Feb is NASCAR and Mar is college kids.

fintail

But the bad ones don't get actual peformance, just looks and sound. So many cars can absolutely humiliate most of these tuned Civics in virtually any driving situation. It's a pretending game.

Don't even get me started on the loud WRXs, or those who rev as hard as they can go get that blow-off noise (or whatever it is called).

Maybe you are too close to Joisey... :P ...while here, the lifted truck and loud Harley ideal seems to wander off into imported cars.

fintail

It's a basic design that dates from 1995. If anything, others did mimic it - Hyunkia in particular has some history of that. Look at it from the eyes of then - it was actually pretty modern. I prefer it to slashed about angles everywhere and clusters that start at the wheelarch.

ateixeira

I'm not defending the tuned Civics, far from it. They're obnoxious. I don't even like FWD platforms, for the most part.

I'm just saying ... you get tasteless custom cars as moms and dads hand them off to teenagers, and as their price bracket drops so high school kids can afford them. Golf, Civic, WRX, makes no difference.

Once again, though, you show your anti-Asian bias, as 1.8T engines have the same issues with blow-off valve noises.

Fortunately I'm far enough from NJ and there's a body of water between us, though they can take the Ferry.

robr2

To be fair, that kind of thing has been going on ever since high schoolers could get their hands on a car.

In the early 80's it was older 70's cars with Crager rims, driving lights, loud stereos and boomerang antennas on the trunk (I'm so ashamed).

In the 50's it was kids in 38 Fords with a racoon tail on the aerial and moon hub caps.

fintail

The Civic etc trend started here back when the cars were new - it just never went away, as nobody wants to do anything to a 2006+ Civic.

I've never seen an Audi revving it up in traffic making the blow off noise around here - it's a Subie thing. Audis mostly go a more boring crowd, tuned ones are usually older (aka unreliable, so you don't see them as much).

Should I point out your positive bias anytime anything Hyunkia pops up? :P

ateixeira

I guess I've not been part of that scene, so I have no idea what they're using as platforms nowadays. I see the 1.8Ts on H20 weekend.

fin must've joined the NOPI tour or something. :P

I drove down to the board walk in the Miata, and everyone was doing burn-outs. So this guy gets a 5 gallon bucket and dumps water on my rear tires, screams out:

LIGHT 'EM UP, LIGHT 'EM UP!

I think I officially became "too old" at that exact moment, LOL.

ateixeira

I've never seen an Audi revving it up in traffic making the blow off noise around here

OMG!

The offer to stay in my condo, for free, still stands.

Again - the only condition is you have to sleep with the windows open.