I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

ateixeira

Should I point out your positive bias anytime anything Hyunkia pops up?

I've never owned a Korean car, new or used.

Heck, I don't even have anything LG or Samsung, though that may soon change.

I'm willing to admit the Tigers have made great progress in the segments they compete in. You're not. :P

ateixeira

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2011/10/official-photos-2012-bmw-3-seri- es.html#more

Not a good rhinoplasty, yikes!

Looks like they extended it and raised the hood to meet euro pedestrian crash standards. Problem is, it looks like that was the only design criteria.

Rear looks ok. Interior is fine but I'm not crazy about the tacked-on LCD display.

kyfdx

I like the seats, and the general look of the front end... but, I think they lost their way when they connected the kidney grilles to the headlights... they had to put a connector on each element to get them to run together..... that just looks wrong....

fintail

I just read kind of an adoring tone when it comes to Hyunkia, that they are doing nothing wrong, and the cars (especially in design terms) must be defended. Maybe stronger than progress, hell, even I have admitted that. Next purchase a Genesis? Always the upcoming version with a better engine and suspension, of course

I mean, when a cool college kid will supposedly drive a mommymobile Kia soft-roader, someone has some rose tinted glasses :shades:

fintail

Leering pseudo-menacing faces are lame. And yeah, the boundary between grille and light is clumsy. The rest, more boring evolution, will still sell in base 328i form to the local social climbing lease crowd.

fintail

Saw a truckload of new Beetles this morning, yesterday saw 2x new ML at the dealer and a fairly loaded new E wagon - more or less 70K.

Also saw both a 5er GT and a X6 within 5 minutes of each other...I have to openly question where the money comes from (a significant amount of these locally seem to go to the "investor visa" set) and how the drivers feel about their vehicles.

ateixeira

There's balance...

I'm not impressed with the Genesis coupe, I guess you just haven't been in discussions about that car. It lacks the sedan's interior "niceness".

You've seen me be critical of the manual shifter of the Kia Optima, too. My brother didn't like it either, and he crossed that off his list. I didn't try the automatic.

I'm not in to sedans, Hyundai would have to make a Genesis wagon if they wanted me to come in for a drive.

The Sportage was actually nice. Terrible visibility, but it drove well, and I preferred its clutch and steering over the Optima.

You know I'm a Subaru guy and Fitz Subaru happens to be a joint Subaru/Hyundai showroom. So when I check out an Outback, inevitably I sit in the Genesis next to it. It (the sedan) is one of the very few cars in the market with a sticker price that is lower than you expect.

ateixeira

Looks like they're using surplus hoods from the IS-F, as well.

Check out the angle of the hood, how it stick out, then drops suddenly.

fintail

Nope, I don't read Genesis discussions - although I know a nice amount of the sedans are now doing National-Alamo fleet duty, which is either a good sign or a bad sign.

Genesis coupe makes me wonder why it is called a Genesis, as it doesn't really appear related to the sedan at all. It's not a bad car, but I don't know if it is really an upmarket product. The G37 isn't shaking in its boots.

I don't get the underdog attraction, that's all. The corporate family has received its fair share of coddling and aid.

fintail

I dunno, the shape reminds me of evolution from the F01 7er more than anything else. AKA, maybe fussier and curvier than it needs to be. Bangle's legacy will take a while to die.

ateixeira

I'd feel lucky to rent one of those, maybe I'll ask next time we travel and I need one.

Coupe should NOT have shared the name, totally agree there. Waters down the brand big-time, and not even the same target audience.

G37 is also different, sportier and much smaller.

I don't get the underdog attraction

Bingo - I love an underdog. :shades:

From the rusting, faded, memories of the awful Excel, comes a .... Genesis sedan that embarrasses other sedans in its price range.

kyfdx

The 5 series GT is a straight-up 7 series, with a little length taken out and $20K cheaper... I think they sold to prospective 7-series buyers...

fintail

I wouldn't complain about one either, I have a 2 week rental next week, and if I can pick one, it will be an leading choice. It should be in the premium class, SIPP code in NA I think is PDAR. I have seen a couple on the road here, they appear moderately equipped, dunno if they have navi.

What is the Genesis coupe supposed to compete with? The underdog can't define new categories, doesn't work that way. Camaro and Mustang buyers won't go for it. Is a G37 that much smaller? I compared that because they look similar.

Genesis offers value, but I shun brand new cars as bad economics, so when I look at the price of the super V8 model, I still can't do it, not to mention I don't like the E60 looks

fintail

It's just so ugly, especially that rear end. I don't mind the 7er at all - nice car. But the GT. We get that and not the Touring. ugh

anythngbutgm

A bunch of new Camry's, I didn't know they were for sale yet?

In Boston last night:

Audi RS4 Cabrio with a stick, oh baby!

Carbon Grey Mercedes SLS, my gosh what a beautiful car...

Aston Martin DB-7 convertible, still my pick over the Merc. :shades:

ateixeira

What is the Genesis coupe supposed to compete with?

Good question.

You could say MazdaSpeed3, WRX, GTI, but the main appeal is RWD, so then does it compete with the american pony car set? Without a V8, though? Or maybe a 370z? Miata?

I guess the Scion FRS and Subaru BRZ (dumb name) will compete to some extent.

It's a bit unique, RWD without a big engine. Hyundai missed in not offering the sedan's MUCH better interior. It could have been a G37 coupe competitor, but it falls short. Also, their stick shifts are hit-or-miss and this one misses, a big faux pas in this class.

Coupe may be sized like the G37c, but the Genesis sedan is a lot bigger than the G37 sedan, I believe.

We should keep in mind what things cost nowadays, the cheapest AMG (C class) is $59+ grand base, $61.4k for the coupe. ***Ouch***

fintail

Will the FRS and BRZ ever really exist? I can't say I believe it just yet. Toyota is playing a risky game in creating insane hype about upcoming models - it creates expectations that are tough to meet.

I think with some of the wannabe upward mobility at Hyunkia, they indeed thought the Gen coupe could compete with the G - I can't see it being similar to anything else. Ponycar people want available big engines and like domestic rides anyway. The other hot cars aren't RWD and are somewhat less mature. I don't know.

The similarity in the Gen coupe to the G not being similar in the Gen sedan is more proof of the wrong name being given to the coupe. The Gen sedan wants to play with the 5ers etc, something the coupe could never approach.

IS-F and M3 are pretty much the same price too. E63 can pass 100K without all options being selected.

ateixeira

Scary.

For me it's not even a matter of what I could afford, it's a matter of what I consider reasonable spending on a depreciating asset.

I'd buy another condo at the beach (or perhaps in a warmer climate) before I spent that much on any car.

I hear Panama has a cost of living similar to the USA in the 1950s. Early retirement? What cars are available there? A Wrangler would be nice...

fintail

But they depreciate like day old bread. Well equipped 07 E63 can be had for barely more than a highline Camry now. That's when you buy.

Some second world areas with their banana republic socio economic structures might not be the most stable areas if their repressive leaders can't keep people in line - might not be safe as an elderly expat. But at the same time, thanks to the globalized reality, it might not be better here.

ateixeira

Back in '07 that AMG was just $80k, though, so it's higher now, with more pricey options available.

By that I mean in 4 years a used 2011 AMG will probably cost a lot more than a loaded appliance.

There's always the E550.

fintail

Nah, you could easily load them past 100K then too - I remember looking at them. I remember looking at CLK63s that were over 90K and didn't have nav!

Appliance prices are rising too. I bet by fall/winter of 2015, you'll be able to get that 2011 E63 for 35K (or equivalent) if you look around. I think by then I'll be wanting a bluetec though, I am getting old :shades:

ateixeira

The Camry you gave as example had some price cuts, FWIW. Generally, though, price has been creeping up at a scary pace. You wonder if that's why overall sales are down so much.

iwant12

Haven't been here for a few weeks, but has anyone seen the new Camaro ragtop? I've seen two so far, top up and top down, and, suprisingly, it looks good in both forms.

fintail

It's the middle-upper that seems to be gaining the most - amazing what loaded 5ers and Es go for now. In the high end, it's somehow different. I remember nearly 20 years ago when the W140 came out, you couldn't get a 500SEL for less than 85K. Today you can easily get a nice S550 for under 100K. Not much inflation. But back then an E was much cheaper.

fintail

I've seen a few, but I have a dealer less than a mile away. I'd take it over the coupe simply for better visibility at least on nice days.

berri

I haven't seen the convertible. I was disappointed in the coupe because to me it looks like someone stepped on it. Maybe too much a combination of today and 67? Then again, I was always partial to the 70-72 even though I think those years were kind of slow sellers and almost led to the Camaro being discontinued.

kyfdx

Wow... and I thought the old one was homely... :surprise:

fintail

As I am relatively tall, I don't have much affection for any of the modern chop topped cars...I have to wonder who they are designed for, people who are 5'3"?

berri

I saw one of those new Quest at an auto show. It did have very comfortable and roomy front leather seats. But the vehicle shape and that CVT, I'd have to have a pretty sweet price deal to actually consider one.

iwant12

"I'd take it over the coupe simply for better visibility at least on nice days."

Same here. I like they way they look (if they have stripes!) but had a hard time seeing out of the one my buddy let me drive.

Berri: That's the first impression that I got, the first time I saw the new body style; Somebody freaking stepped on it!

Why, why couldn't they just copy a '68? Ah, well.

stickguy

But, still not as ugly as a new Odyssey! Man, what a disaster.

kyfdx

I don't know... I think the Quest wins the ugly Olympics... at least with the Odyssey, you can find a good angle..

With the Quest, you'd have to be blindfolded, with the lights off, and even then, it wouldn't even feel good.... :sick:

stever

I think Chrysler still makes the best looking minivans.

Which is sort of like saying my hippopotamus is sleeker than yours.

Unless I'm driving by a plate glass window, I really don't notice the looks of my older Quest while driving around. It's a bit silly trying to turn a box into an eggplant, although Chrysler did get close for a while there.

berri

at least with the Odyssey, you can find a good angle..

Where would that be, where they welded on the back third from some other vehicle? I think they both are atrocious looking personally and you can throw in the new Sienna interior as well. I think maybe the Asians are on a mission to destroy the minivan market???

corsicachevy

Steve,

I finally sent my 2001 Nissan Quest out to pasture. What a great vehicle. It had hit 200,000 miles and was in need of a total front and rear brake job, new timing belt, new struts in front and possibly new tires. It had also developed a case of rust cancer - not visible from the outside - but getting worse by the day. Thre rear speakers no longer worked, the rear wiper was broken, the headlights were weak from day one and it was stricken with a bad case of the rattles. It was time to go.

The van was tough, flexible and worked quite well as tow vehicle. It was one of the best purchases I ever made. It has been replaced by a 2011 Chrysler Town and Country with a towing package. Despite having the van for about two months, I have rarely driven it. I just can't seem to pry it out of my wife's hands. She loves it. I just hope it proves to be the tank that our old Quest proved to be.

And for those wth an institutional memory, by purchasing a second minivan at this station in my life (two teenage sons) I proved heatwave3 wrong. He assured me that I would opt for an SUV the second time around. :-)

stever

Boy, there's a name out of the past! :shades:

I think I probably extended the life of my '99 with those 10 years in the high desert of Boise. Up here in the UP, who knows if I'll get through a second winter with it.

ateixeira

My kid sat in an Orange Camaro ragtop and loved it. It was at a community Parade at the Kentlands in Gaithersburg, and had not yet been sold so I'm not sure if that counts as a sighting.

ateixeira

I think the Swagger Wagon looks best outside. The Chrysler vans have odd proportions in that as you move up, it doesn't taper in enough. So it looks top heavy, boxy.

Inside, though, Toyota cut too many costs, and some of the soft-touch stuff from my 2007 was de-contented. So for interiors I'd take an Odyssey or Quest, even though I can't stand the exteriors.

Just talked to my buddy (who is married to a Nissan staffer), and they currently have a Ramada and an Altima 2.5S in their fleet. They're thinking about a Quest to replace the big SUV to reduce the gas bills, and a Juke to replace the Altima.

They get subsidized leases, but I'm not sure I'd take a Juke if it were free.

stever

I was just skimming the Long-Term Road Tests blog on Inside Line last night and the Juke comments make it sound pretty fun. Sounds like the staffers are abusing it a bit, which is always more fun when it's not your car.

ateixeira

I can't help but think that same powertrain would sell better in the Cube. In fact I might even test drive one.

Nissan Juke - 3,310
Kia Soul - 6,666
Honda Fit - 4,734
Mitsubishi Outlander Sport - 1,512
Scion xB - 1,415
Mini Cooper Countryman - 1,207
Suzuki SX4 - 997

Guess it's not doing bad. Subaru may throw a hat in that ring if the Impreza-based XV is sold here.

stever

The Fit/Soul numbers surprised me. Figured the Honda brand would carry the day. Maybe the fit looks too much like a mini-minivan. Haven't driven one, but I think I'd like the Soul better too.

ateixeira

Kia just added direct injection and greatly improved the mileage figures, so that may have reawakened sales.

Edmunds compares FWD and AWD entires, though. I would put the Juke with the Outlander Sport and Subaru Outback Sport.

For 2012 the Outback Sport is gone, though we may see an XV here.

andys120

I spotted a dark grey Porsche Panamera in traffic this AM, perhaps only the second I've seen outside of a showroom or auto show.

I know I'm in a minority but when you see it among ordinary cars it looks exceptionally sleek and low for something w four doors and yet it's unmistakeably a Porsche.

The lowness is something of a trompe l'oeil. I've sat in one and it's no harder to get into than a Buick.

ateixeira

Looks ok as long as you don't see if from behind.

robr2

I spotted a dark grey Porsche Panamera in traffic this AM, perhaps only the second I've seen outside of a showroom or auto show.

I know I'm in a minority but when you see it among ordinary cars it looks exceptionally sleek and low for something w four doors and yet it's unmistakeably a Porsche.

I'm with you. I love the styling of the Panamera from all angles.

tifighter

For 2012 the Outback Sport is gone, though we may see an XV here.


I thought the XV was official-

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/27/subaru-impreza-xv-headed-to-u-s-for-2013/

ateixeira

I guess it's the name that has yet to be determined, then.

fintail

Maybe it's all just a scheme to sell more useless soft-road crossovers (likely having higher profit margins), especially in households where the fairer part of the species wears the pants :shades:

fintail

I can tolerate it when not seen from rear quarter angles.

Quite a few of them in my area, the "entrepreneur" can drive that and wifey can drive the white on white on white on white Cayenne...just don't ask where the money comes from :shades:

hoosiergrandad

Saw a Panamera in Indy last winter. Really liked it...not surprising since I have a Crosstour (ducks) which is sorta like a lifted version of it. I also saw a recent poll somewhere which indicated that those of us approaching retirement age consider the Panamera to be at or near the top of our "dream car" lists.