I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

berri

Eventually someone gets caught holding the bubble before it bursts. But you can't time that and markets often don't seem to be rational.

Michaell

berri said:

Eventually someone gets caught holding the bubble before it bursts. But you can't time that and markets often don't seem to be rational.

Not having done any research on this, Tesla to me seems similar to the internet bubble of the late 90's. Irrational market values for a company that hasn't turned a profit, and survives due to government largesse.

ab348

I have to think a few of the top dogs at Tesla are having one heckuva good time these days.

berri

I think Tesla may have some cash flow issues, which if true can be dangerous.

kyfdx

berri said:

I think Tesla may have some cash flow issues, which if true can be dangerous.

They do burn a lot of cash.. but, so far, they have no problem selling more debt or equity in capital markets. So, no cash flow issues, per se.

I am amazed at the number of cars they've been able to produce and sell. How many people have started a car company in the last 50 years and sold even 20K vehicles?

andres3

kyfdx said:

berri said:

I think Tesla may have some cash flow issues, which if true can be dangerous.

They do burn a lot of cash.. but, so far, they have no problem selling more debt or equity in capital markets. So, no cash flow issues, per se.

I am amazed at the number of cars they've been able to produce and sell. How many people have started a car company in the last 50 years and sold even 20K vehicles?

How many companies have crashed and burned in just the last 17 years trying to make cars for a living?

I know GM was forced to close down a few brands in 2008/2009.

texases

It seems like Tesla's hope for long term survival is large sales of the upcoming Tesla 3. But now everyone's trying to get into that niche ($35k, 200+ miles range). Given Tesla's poor quality record on the X (especially), I'd much rather buy an EV from a known brand that I can bet will be around years hence.

kyfdx

I wouldn't buy a Tesla or invest in the stock.

But, I wouldn't short it, either.

fintail

Saw my first Lexus LC on the road today, kind of striking from some angles, but the front is still ghastly to me. Just like a Tesla, not how I'd blow through 100K.

Mr_Shiftright

kyfdx said:

berri said:

I think Tesla may have some cash flow issues, which if true can be dangerous.

They do burn a lot of cash.. but, so far, they have no problem selling more debt or equity in capital markets. So, no cash flow issues, per se.

I am amazed at the number of cars they've been able to produce and sell. How many people have started a car company in the last 50 years and sold even 20K vehicles?

Cant' think of one that started 1967 on up and reached that production level. Delorean never made it to 20,000, nor did Bricklin. In the 1950s, there were certainly new car companies that exceeded 20,000, like Lotus and Subaru.

Mr_Shiftright

kyfdx said:

I wouldn't buy a Tesla or invest in the stock.

But, I wouldn't short it, either.

I read somewhere that about 25% of shareholders are holding short.

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

kyfdx said:

I wouldn't buy a Tesla or invest in the stock.

But, I wouldn't short it, either.

I read somewhere that about 25% of shareholders are holding short.

Funny about shorts.. I heard on CNBC that so many Sears (SHLD) shares were shorted, that some of the shares would have to be borrowed from ESL and Fairholme, that together own over 50% of the company.

When the stock starts up, all that short covering sometimes exaggerates the move upward. It's a dangerous game.

fintail

I wonder if the perpetual motion machine mouth of inaccuracies of 45 will impact the new cars we see

Hopefully not. Unbelievable.

berri

Hey, from the video coverage of the trip, maybe the issue is that the old man ain't getting any

fintail

Not even that inherited fortune might be enough anymore.

Not many new Chevies in Germany, but plenty of Fords and Opels, and American made German brands. Hmmm

ab348

Geez, I come here to get away from the constant barrage about Trump online elsewhere....

kyfdx

Good point..

Let's can the political talk, or you'll be sentenced to watching cable news for the rest of the weekend.

fintail

I'd say it is potentially relevant to the auto market, especially upcoming models, but if those who shall not be offended are offended, then I'll refrain with unpleasant realities

kyfdx

fintail said:

I'd say it is potentially relevant to the auto market, especially upcoming models, but if those who shall not be offended are offended, then I'll refrain with unpleasant realities

Thanks..

stickguy

stopped at Volvo dealer with my daughter today. Played with an S90. She was in love with the giant iPad center screen. Was really quite cool.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

stopped at Volvo dealer with my daughter today. Played with an S90. She was in love with the giant iPad center screen. Was really quite cool.

Very very expensive way to obtain an ipad. ;b

fintail

Saw a new hockey stick 5er in traffic today, another product made by an industrial sector that produces material strongly desired by nearly every market

Michaell

I spotted a new Lexus LC500 last week. Very menacing looking, even in white. 

tlong

I concur about the current Lexus styling (especially front) to be ghastly. I never thought I'd long for the days of bland Lexi.

fintail

LC doesn't irk me form the side, but the front is a bit flamboyant for my taste.

explorerx4

Next door in the driveway. A sliver 3 series coupe, pretty sure an M3(badge on the front fender?).
Looks really good, but nothing over the top about the styling.
It has some kind of wording on the rocker area just ahead of the rear wheels.

kyfdx

explorerx4 said:

Next door in the driveway. A sliver 3 series coupe, pretty sure an M3(badge on the front fender?).
Looks really good, but nothing over the top about the styling.
It has some kind of wording on the rocker area just ahead of the rear wheels.

I bet it's a regular 3-Series with "performance" parts. That's where I've seen that lettering.

M3s have louvered grills on the fenders.

texases

And a coupe would be an M4 if new. 

fintail

Took a quick stop at the MB dealer today to see if there was anything odd. Not much, but did see an AMG GT roadster, cool car. Also a couple S cabrios. Used section had maybe 20 more basic spec 2016 C-class, retired loaners or maybe off lease/ex rental. Kind of an odd pile, so many of them. Oddball on the used lot was a 2004 SL600 in Mars Red.

Porsche dealer had a Boxster at almost 100K, gotta love the options.

Mr_Shiftright

Porsche is masterful at the Options List.

ab348

In traffic today, carrying two older ladies turning into a shopping mall, a new M-B C450 with AMG badges. Not sure what is under the hood since I can't actually find it on M-B Canada's site. Probably safe to assume that throttle pedal has never been opened beyond about 10%.

fintail

I think C450 is a 2016-only model car, now replaced by the C43. MB has become a little schizo with their naming. It's a TT V6 with ~360hp, and has some AMG bits.

fintail

Saw a new style Rolls-Royce coupe today, black and silver. I hope it wasn't brand new (it was unplated), as the black paint had swirl marks.

Mr_Shiftright

Maserati whizzed past me...I have a bit of trouble differentiating the new models...but I sure wish my car sounded like that, instead of like a can of angry gnats.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

Maserati whizzed past me...I have a bit of trouble differentiating the new models...but I sure wish my car sounded like that, instead of like a can of angry gnats.

@jpp5862 and I visited the Fiat / Alfa / Maserati dealer a few months back. GM fired up the Levante (SUV) in the showroom and demonstrated the two stage exhaust. Normal sounds pretty good, but the 'sport' mode (or whatever they called it) was simply amazing.

Would scare all the other mommy-bloggers that are in line to pick up the kids from the private school.

andres3

Saw a new-looking 911 with a big wing and the personalized plate reading "SLOW911" I had to smile, as I noticed the internal cross bracing roll cage and Recaro Racing seats. I wonder who has "FAST911" on their plate.

ab348

Maseratis these days have the best exhaust note around. Not so sure about the rest of the car though.

Mr_Shiftright

They should charge $80,000 for the exhaust system and give you the car for free.

fintail

I thought that was the point - you're buying a powertrain. I don't know if they have the best image though, the noise seems to bring out the worst in people. Nothing worse than a late model GT revving and weaving in and out of traffic, without signal of course,

Mr_Shiftright

I sort of expect them to behave that way. If I see a Prius doing that, then I'm really frightened.

fintail

Saw a white Atlas on the road today, it is big and butch, should attract the target demographic for it. Also not brand new but current: S65 AMG, C63 AMG, and I think a C43 AMG.

andres3

fintail said:

Saw a white Atlas on the road today, it is big and butch, should attract the target demographic for it. Also not brand new but current: S65 AMG, C63 AMG, and I think a C43 AMG.

What's with all the AMG's in Seattle? I guess you need the HP to pass all those rolling blockades of Prius you mention all the time.

fintail

Lots of idle money, and some local demographics who want the most expensive version of any model, no matter what it is. Seems kind of sad for a tuned V12 to idle between lights while going from the gallery mall to the Whole Foods.

andres3 said:

What's with all the AMG's in Seattle? I guess you need the HP to pass all those rolling blockades of Prius you mention all the time.

andres3

fintail said:

Lots of idle money, and some local demographics who want the most expensive version of any model, no matter what it is. Seems kind of sad for a tuned V12 to idle between lights while going from the gallery mall to the Whole Foods.

andres3 said:

What's with all the AMG's in Seattle? I guess you need the HP to pass all those rolling blockades of Prius you mention all the time.

I think it would be a more disturbing offense if one of those dawdling on-ramp mergerers was an AMG model that couldn't find it in their skill set to be going more than 40 MPH at the top of the on-ramp.

fintail

I never really see that, it's the hybrid and Lexus crowd who dawdles on on-ramps - which amuses me, as many Lexus may be somewhat dull, but not really underpowered. The tuned models are often driven with a degree of oblivion, probably because the drivers know they are untouchable on a socio-economic basis.

Saw a facelift SL on the road today

andres3 said:

I think it would be a more disturbing offense if one of those dawdling on-ramp mergerers was an AMG model that couldn't find it in their skill set to be going more than 40 MPH at the top of the on-ramp.

stickguy

New body style MB C43 AMG. Looked good in white.

fintail

On the same note, I got behind a C63S AMG convertible today. Black wheels not in good taste IMO, and the driver was more concerned about their hair than driving, given their no-signal lane change. Welcome to Bellevue!

explorerx4

In the parking lot at work, a doppelganger to my Fusion, but has the 2.0 engine.

stickguy

not sure how new both were, but at Shop Rite today, it was M day. Parked near each other, an M4 convertible (dark gray over light gray, gorgeous), and an M6 convertible (white over red, also attractive). Interesting is that both were just out in the lot unattended, and both were left with the tops down!

Michaell

stickguy said:

not sure how new both were, but at Shop Rite today, it was M day. Parked near each other, an M4 convertible (dark gray over light gray, gorgeous), and an M6 convertible (white over red, also attractive). Interesting is that both were just out in the lot unattended, and both were left with the tops down!

I've seen a couple of M4's recently, one in that loud yellow-green color. One coupe, on the power hardtop.