I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

fintail

Stinger could end up being a used bargain, or even a lease bargain if sales are slow. No more 10K ADMS out there, I suspect.

Regarding the Regal, this is more weirdo GM model positioning. The Insignia is not a particularly premium product in the home market, rather just a nice larger car - think of it as a German Impala rather than competing with near-lux. GM has been trying to sell the large Opel as a premium offering here, off and on for more than 20 years now, with marginal success.

Michaell

fintail said:

Stinger could end up being a used bargain, or even a lease bargain if sales are slow. No more 10K ADMS out there, I suspect.

Regarding the Regal, this is more weirdo GM model positioning. The Insignia is not a particularly premium product in the home market, rather just a nice larger car - think of it as a German Impala rather than competing with near-lux. GM has been trying to sell the large Opel as a premium offering here, off and on for more than 20 years now, with marginal success.

My 2003 Saturn L300 had some European DNA in it, I believe.

And, having sat in the new Regal at the Auto Show, I too was disappointed. I really wanted to like it, but I couldn't.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Stinger could end up being a used bargain, or even a lease bargain if sales are slow. No more 10K ADMS out there, I suspect.

Regarding the Regal, this is more weirdo GM model positioning. The Insignia is not a particularly premium product in the home market, rather just a nice larger car - think of it as a German Impala rather than competing with near-lux. GM has been trying to sell the large Opel as a premium offering here, off and on for more than 20 years now, with marginal success.

Yes I agree. The Stinger will be a nice scoop in a used car in 2-3 years. Maybe the 255HP 4 cylinder will sell well---we'll see. But an optioned up GT AWD could push $50K.

ab348

New Lexus LS500 gets a mixed review from Cnet Roadshow - the infotainment system gets an F.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2018-lexus-ls-500/review/

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

fintail said:

Stinger could end up being a used bargain, or even a lease bargain if sales are slow. No more 10K ADMS out there, I suspect.

Regarding the Regal, this is more weirdo GM model positioning. The Insignia is not a particularly premium product in the home market, rather just a nice larger car - think of it as a German Impala rather than competing with near-lux. GM has been trying to sell the large Opel as a premium offering here, off and on for more than 20 years now, with marginal success.

Yes I agree. The Stinger will be a nice scoop in a used car in 2-3 years. Maybe the 255HP 4 cylinder will sell well---we'll see. But an optioned up GT AWD could push $50K.

$50K is what I gave the dealership before fees and taxes for my S4 in late 2013 for a '14 model. I also got a $1K off loyalty rebate that paid for a portion of those taxes and fees. I will forever benchmark a $50K car to that, and if that's the case, there must of been some crazy inflation in the last 4 years if Kia wants the same amount.

fintail

GT2 is around 52-53K MSRP now. It'll be interesting to see end of year sales and lease offers.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes I agree. The Stinger will be a nice scoop in a used car in 2-3 years. Maybe the 255HP 4 cylinder will sell well---we'll see. But an optioned up GT AWD could push $50K.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you should drive the GT. It may well be a match for the S4 in many respects. I can't say myself but reviewers are quite impressed with it. Doug DeMuro loved it, as did what's his name on "Engineering Explained". These are not easy reviewers either.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well you should drive the GT. It may well be a match for the S4 in many respects. I can't say myself but reviewers are quite impressed with it. Doug DeMuro loved it, as did what's his name on "Engineering Explained". These are not easy reviewers either.

I drove a RWD GT, it drove well, but the interior was a let down in my opinion. There were some design ideas I didn't like, such as the tiny rear window with a tiny rear view and rear-view mirror to go with it.

Kia is good at imitating the real thing, but it's still not the real thing. They are not quite "there" yet.

qbrozen

andres3 said:

Stinger could end up being a used bargain, or even a lease bargain if sales are slow. No more 10K ADMS out there, I suspect. Regarding the Regal, this is more weirdo GM model positioning. The Insignia is not a particularly premium product in the home market, rather just a nice larger car - think of it as a German Impala rather than competing with near-lux. GM has been trying to sell the large Opel as a premium offering here, off and on for more than 20 years now, with marginal success.

Yes I agree. The Stinger will be a nice scoop in a used car in 2-3 years. Maybe the 255HP 4 cylinder will sell well---we'll see. But an optioned up GT AWD could push $50K.

$50K is what I gave the dealership before fees and taxes for my S4 in late 2013 for a '14 model. I also got a $1K off loyalty rebate that paid for a portion of those taxes and fees. I will forever benchmark a $50K car to that, and if that's the case, there must of been some crazy inflation in the last 4 years if Kia wants the same amount.

Except you'd have to compare to A6 size.
Tough to compare properly performance-wise since the Kia falls in between the a6 3.0T and S6.

Mr_Shiftright

Reviewers seem to harp on the "value" aspect of the Stinger--the features and performance you get at that price point. You can certainly "beat" the Stinger's features with a German sedan, but you'll pay another $10K to do it, is the point I think.

It might be analogous to when the first Lexus LS came out. It's true it was "no Mercedes" but it was close enough to sell at the lower price.

ab348

Well, the Stinger seems to be glued to the pavement on most dealer lots. Something must not be resonating with buyers, either the price tag for the brand name or the perception of quality received for the price. I suspect the large size probably does it no favors either.

qbrozen

I'd guess "it's a Kia" for one, and the other being that 95% of buyers have no idea why it is quite a bit more expensive than the virtually same-sized Optima sitting next to it.

I would imagine that is at least part of the reason why other manufacturers chose to split off a separate division. Nissan would probably never have had the success with the G35 they had if it were sitting next to the Maxima.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

I'd guess "it's a Kia" for one, and the other being that 95% of buyers have no idea why it is quite a bit more expensive than the virtually same-sized Optima sitting next to it.

I would imagine that is at least part of the reason why other manufacturers chose to split off a separate division. Nissan would probably never have had the success with the G35 they had if it were sitting next to the Maxima.

Yep, it's the "Kia" badge. It's like with the Tesla Model 3 vs. the Chevy Bolt. With that bowtie on the front, the Bolt just isn't attracting the EV cult, even though it is a match for the Model 3 in most respects, at a much lower price point.

I think the Bolt is selling fairly well, but there's certainly no "buzz" about it.

stickguy

driving around, a new Accord. Distinctive tail end. Reminds me of some expensive car. just not sure which.

and in the showroom, a Hyundai Kona. Liked it!

Michaell

qbrozen said:

I'd guess "it's a Kia" for one, and the other being that 95% of buyers have no idea why it is quite a bit more expensive than the virtually same-sized Optima sitting next to it.

I would imagine that is at least part of the reason why other manufacturers chose to split off a separate division. Nissan would probably never have had the success with the G35 they had if it were sitting next to the Maxima.

Not just "it's a Kia" but also "It's a Kia dealer". Product may be great in so many ways, but the perception from the majority of the public is that Kia is where the credit challenged go, when all else fails.

Upgrade the facilities (which, has happened to the Kia dealer closest to me), and the buying process, and you might change the perception. Gonna take time, however.

stickguy

I refuse to step foot in either Kia dealer near me. The hyundai stores are fine.

ab348

stickguy said:

I refuse to step foot in either Kia dealer near me. The hyundai stores are fine.

Around here it is just the reverse. One of the Hyundai dealers in particular is about as bad as they get.

qbrozen

I have never been to a Kia dealer. Tried Hyundai once and would never go back there.

tjc78

qbrozen said:

I have never been to a Kia dealer. Tried Hyundai once and would never go back there.

I bought my Genesis and Elantra at Burns.  No complaints with either purchase.   I’ve been treated worse at other dealers, that’s for sure. 

stickguy

Burns and the places in PA I used (particularly Faulkner) were really nice. Clean, friendly, honest. Everything you want in a car dealer really.

fintail

Saw a new Navigator this afternoon, definitely has a Range Rover look to it.

stickguy

I saw a new one too recently. Big imposing beast, but nicely styled for something in that class. Needless to say, the couple driving it looked wealthy!

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

qbrozen said:

I have never been to a Kia dealer. Tried Hyundai once and would never go back there.

I bought my Genesis and Elantra at Burns.  No complaints with either purchase.   I’ve been treated worse at other dealers, that’s for sure. 

I didn't mean all Hyundai dealers. Just the one I went to.

explorerx4

a black Ford Ecosport - looks like a jacked up Fiesta, which it is or a smaller version of a C Max..

Mr_Shiftright

tjc78

qbrozen said:

tjc78 said:

qbrozen said:

I have never been to a Kia dealer. Tried Hyundai once and would never go back there.

I bought my Genesis and Elantra at Burns.  No complaints with either purchase.   I’ve been treated worse at other dealers, that’s for sure. 

I didn't mean all Hyundai dealers. Just the one I went to.

Gotcha.  

Hell, there are plenty of sleazy dealers for every brand.  

explorerx4

When I bought my truck, the salesman tried to interest my wife in an Ecosport.
Little did he know she drives an MKC.
We kind of felt it was a bit stereotypical.

laurasdada

A Bentley Bentayga. Meh.

stickguy

Quite a few new style odyssey. Minivans not totally dead I guess

Mr_Shiftright

Honda really knows how to do "minivan".

fintail

Saw a couple of Model 3 today, meh. Also saw an E300 with distronic - rare option.

I've also noticed more Velar lately - either lease deals are picking up, or more proof I live in Stepfordville.

texases

Thought I had pulled up next to a collision-damaged car with wavy bodywork...nope, just a Lexus NX300...

ab348

Positive review of the upcoming Toyota Corolla hatch. Maybe something for @iluvmysephia1 to consider.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2019-toyota-corolla-hatchback/preview/

stickguy

something else that sounds nice is the next RAV4. the review I read last night made it sound like a vast improvement. If I had to wade back into the family car market soon, that would now be on the list along with the CRV. The current version RAV would not even warrant a test drive.

texases

Yeah, current Rav4 is very 'meh'. I'll look at the new one in hybrid form to replace my MKZ hybrid.

stickguy

the hybrid is interesting. But the standard engine will probably do pretty well on it's own, for less money.

explorerx4

Drove by a Kia dealer today. They had a yellow Stinger sitting out front. Not my color. Not an unattractive car. Rear overhang seems very long.

fintail

Spotted a white (pearl maybe) Stinger and another Model 3 today - production must have actually ramped up.

Michaell

I think I saw my first model 3 today, going the other way on a 6 lane arterial road. I wasn't terribly impressed with the exterior; have to see the inside to render full judgement.

qbrozen

Still have not seen a Model 3.
Got another look at a Stinger today. Red GT AWD with a bad driver. In any case, I really like the look of the rear. Probably its best angle.

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

I think I saw my first model 3 today, going the other way on a 6 lane arterial road. I wasn't terribly impressed with the exterior; have to see the inside to render full judgement.

Incredibly spartan.

fintail

I think the Model 3 is definitely a case of buying a powertrain and getting the rest for free. Other Teslas have interiors that are far from what is expected in their price class, for this one, you get seats and a steering wheel and feel thankful for that.

Mr_Shiftright

The Model 3's interior reminds me of something like an entry-level luxury Japanese trim at the base level. However, the interior is nicer than a Chevy Bolt. On the other hand, at about $20K more "out the door" than the Bolt, it should be.

fintail

New car day . In my building's parking garage a new style Jeep 4 door and a new Impreza Sport have appeared in the past 24 hours. On the road I spotted a new X6M, recently plated E63S wagon, matte grey 760Li (not my first color choice), and a co-worker got a new Outback.

laurasdada

Atomic Silver Lexus LC500. Still sleek.

stickguy

street parked in a local neighborhood (older, cheesy houses) a white Continental. Might be the first one I saw in the wild. Did not realize how prominent the door handles are. weird how much they protrude. Not bad looking overall though.

stickguy

probably one of the first civilians to do so, but got to check out a new 2019 RDX. Had a call from the guy at the dealership (I had done the online "keep me informed"thing). Called a few days ago to say they would be here mid-June. Got another call this afternoon telling me they have a couple on hand until tomorrow afternoon (they are going to an American Honda corporate office, I assume for demo purposes). But if I got there first, they would show it to me. Just no drives.

so stopped after dinner. Sadly, they closed at 6 (I thought they were open to 9). But, I drove around back, and found them. A red standard one, and a white A Spec with snazzy red seats.

overall, I liked it. looks good in person. Stylish. Seems to be bigger in the trunk area than ours. Interior is quite a bit more fancy. Will be interested in getting into it next month.

berri

So what is this blob of a big Mercedes 4 dr that looks like it is sitting on stilts. Seen several recently and they were all white with black trim... I'm guessing some kind of 4wd sedan/crossover, but with a trunk?

fintail

Maybe a GLE coupe? Perfect for the X6 driver who lacks the flamboyance required by the modern roundel:

tjc78

stickguy said:

probably one of the first civilians to do so, but got to check out a new 2019 RDX. Had a call from the guy at the dealership (I had done the online "keep me informed"thing). Called a few days ago to say they would be here mid-June. Got another call this afternoon telling me they have a couple on hand until tomorrow afternoon (they are going to an American Honda corporate office, I assume for demo purposes). But if I got there first, they would show it to me. Just no drives.

so stopped after dinner. Sadly, they closed at 6 (I thought they were open to 9). But, I drove around back, and found them. A red standard one, and a white A Spec with snazzy red seats.

overall, I liked it. looks good in person. Stylish. Seems to be bigger in the trunk area than ours. Interior is quite a bit more fancy. Will be interested in getting into it next month.

So what’s plan Z? Sell the sport to your daughter, lease a new RDX for the wife and take the hand me down RDX for you?