I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, the real numbers thingie.

On April 13, Tesla CEO Elon Musk tweeted an acknowledgement that Tesla had over-automated its production lines and underestimated the value of human workers in auto assembly.

" We had this crazy, complex network of conveyor belts….And it was not working, so we got rid of that whole thing.”

!!!!! Wow, did investors read that?

I think 2018 is the turning point for Tesla. If they can scale up and declare a profit for Q4, then the Tesla dream might actually come true---if not, then I think time has run out.

Yeah, I know the theory that Tesla can keep burning investor cash as long as they keep throwing it at him, but he's losing a half-billion a quarter! That's not chump change.

kyfdx

If they have to turn a profit in the 4th quarter, this year, they should just quit now. No chance of that.. not even on an EBITDA basis.

Mr_Shiftright

Tesla is apparently carrying a lot of debt.

Another problem is that his $35,000 Model 3 is actually a $55,000 Model 3 by the time you get it out the door. Tesla isn't building any $35,000 Model 3s at the moment.

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Tesla is apparently carrying a lot of debt.

Another problem is that his $35,000 Model 3 is actually a $55,000 Model 3 by the time you get it out the door. Tesla isn't building any $35,000 Model 3s at the moment.

The biggest problem is: It is an unattractive lump of a car for $50K. Surely, a Tesla could compete in that price range, along with the Kia Stinger?
And, they have the Model S to compare it to, which is a beauty in comparison.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I hope it's better in reliability than a Model S. It sure isn't in beauty.

I thought I'd be seeing more Model 3s in the Bay Area here, but I haven't. I've spotted maybe 3 or 4. I see more Ss.

Wall St. says Tesla will need up to $5 billion in new money to continue. A bond issue is out, given the company's existing debt, so it will have to come from a dilutive stock offering.

I'm anxious to see the New Wave of EVs but sometimes I wonder:

Could the entire EV "thing" turn into one big bust?

Perhaps the subject of another topic.

stickguy

I suspect I represent many people. I would never get a pure EV, but would be just fine with something like a Volt. Heck, I am probably the prototypical buyer for one of those.

Mr_Shiftright

I like the Volt--and you can charge it up on 110V overnight, so in theory if you never drive more than 50 miles a day you will never buy gasoline. And yet, it's got a regular engine if/when you need it. And it's not ugly and doesn't cost $55,000.

fushigi

The Volt and other PHEVs make the most sense to me today. I wouldn't rule out a pure EV but think that a lot of charging infrastructure & improvements in battery tech would have to come about before I would take the plunge.

Right now I can go to any gas station and in under 15 minutes be set with 350+ miles of fuel. Until an EV can meet or beat that, or at least come really close, I will only be interested in them at an academic level.

explorerx4

This is a what?
https://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-international-travelette/6552352384.html

qbrozen

I want a Volt with Tesla performance.

texases

Saw a new 911 today, been 'sanitized' with no ID on the rear deck (no '911', nothing). Why do that? Now some less-informed folks might assume it's a Cayman...

andres3

qbrozen said:

I want a Volt with Tesla performance.

I heard the Tesla didn't do so hot around the "Ring."

qbrozen

andres3 said:

I want a Volt with Tesla performance.

I heard the Tesla didn't do so hot around the "Ring."

Good thing I don't commute there

Mr_Shiftright

Why? All you're paying double the MSRP for, is batteries and weight, so you can go 0-60 in 3 seconds rather than 6 seconds (about what a Chevy Bolt can do). The range of the Bolt and the base Tesla S or Model 3 is about the same. (240-ish). You could just buy a Volt and a Mustang GT for the price of a loaded up Model S, and have money left over for a cruise around the world.

There comes a point when EVs become pointless. Most Americans never drive 200+ miles in a day, and there are many affordable gasoline cars that can move out very smartly. An EV is best suited as a metro car and a day-tripper. It excels at that.

texases

EVs have somehow acquired this 'salvation of the environment' label. Folks should read a Scientific American article a few years ago about how that's not true, when compared to regular hybrids, in about half the US. And that's just on a CO2 emissions basis, ignoring the battery costs ($$ and environmental). This is because of the CO2 from coal-powered electricity.

stickguy

that is a seriously long truck. must have the turning radius of a cruise ship.

berri

I'm thinking that IH pickup is either some kind of home modified vehicle, or maybe something that used to ride on the railroad tracks. Never saw one like that.

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

qbrozen said:

I want a Volt with Tesla performance.

I heard the Tesla didn't do so hot around the "Ring."

EVs are like that--the faster they go, the slower they get.

fintail

Saw another Model 3 today, and a S63 or S65 (hard to tell from a distance in the rain) cabrio.

Mr_Shiftright

Spotted a 2018 Prius C at Trader Joe's---I'm not sure I get the point of this vehicle. At least $5K more than the Yaris it is based on, with almost the same MPG (just a few more), and from peeking inside, not nearly as much interior room compared to a full-size Prius. ???

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Why? All you're paying double the MSRP for, is batteries and weight, so you can go 0-60 in 3 seconds rather than 6 seconds (about what a Chevy Bolt can do). The range of the Bolt and the base Tesla S or Model 3 is about the same. (240-ish). You could just buy a Volt and a Mustang GT for the price of a loaded up Model S, and have money left over for a cruise around the world. There comes a point when EVs become pointless. Most Americans never drive 200+ miles in a day, and there are many affordable gasoline cars that can move out very smartly. An EV is best suited as a metro car and a day-tripper. It excels at that.

Oh I dont mean the top spec. I was thinking more like a base Model 3. If they would make the Volt as quick as the Bolt, that would be pretty close. 

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, the Bolt is about 2.5 seconds faster than the Volt, 0-60, and about the same as the Model 3 base model.

Really, fast acceleration costs a lot of money in an EV. And given the Volt's short EV range, of only 50 miles, you'd use up your yippies pretty fast I'd imagine.

kyfdx

texases said:

Saw a new 911 today, been 'sanitized' with no ID on the rear deck (no '911', nothing). Why do that? Now some less-informed folks might assume it's a Cayman...

It’s an actual option: model delete.

I like it. They put so much crap on the back now. None is better than a lot.
Actually, “911” on the rear is a relatively new phenomenon. That was gone from ‘84 until recently.

Michaell

fushigi said:

The Volt and other PHEVs make the most sense to me today. I wouldn't rule out a pure EV but think that a lot of charging infrastructure & improvements in battery tech would have to come about before I would take the plunge.

Right now I can go to any gas station and in under 15 minutes be set with 350+ miles of fuel. Until an EV can meet or beat that, or at least come really close, I will only be interested in them at an academic level.

+1.

Even though most of my driving is around town and less than 50 miles, I'm still leery. I've got a friend who bought a used i3, and I'm listening to him comment on the pros and cons of his ownership experience.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

Spotted a 2018 Prius C at Trader Joe's---I'm not sure I get the point of this vehicle. At least $5K more than the Yaris it is based on, with almost the same MPG (just a few more), and from peeking inside, not nearly as much interior room compared to a full-size Prius. ???

When I was delivering pizza as a side gig, I test drove a Prius C, figuring the 50 MPG would be good.

I don't think I could have lived with it every day. Very tinny, and only a 10 gallon gas tank.

I still think a Volt would hit the sweet spot.

fintail

A friend of mine had a Prius C. He liked it so much he'd park it under trees, hoping a tree would fall on it. I am not joking. The second he was above water, he traded it.

I know someone else with one, too, but they are a cheapskate wanting the most economical (yet reliable) transportation possible, and they drive the doors off it.

ab348

On Sunday I swung by the closed-for-the-day Honda dealer just to get a look at the new Accord for the first time. I still have not seen any on the roads here. They had about 10 of them on the back row, a mix of Sport, EXL and Touring trims.

These cars are very large. Very low too. The center console is Taurus-wide. The rear legroom is limo-like. Some had the bright chrome unibrow up front which looked a little garish while others had it in a black chrome finish which was a little better. Flashy wheels on all of them. The Sport models all had black cloth upholstery and their interiors looked rather cave-like. There was a single Touring model there with an ivory leather interior which looked far better than another one with black leather. I believe it was also the only one there with the 2.0T engine. I wonder just how well these will sell compare to the previous models. I think they are just too big. The lot inventory seemed to be about 90% Civics and CRVs.

texases

Last I heard new Accord sales are down 17% from last year. Some due to the CUV craze, but some must be because of the new car's styling.

texases

I followed a new Audi TT/S in this morning, first one I've seen in a long while. Not nearly as popular as when the TT first came out.

kyfdx

texases said:

Last I heard new Accord sales are down 17% from last year. Some due to the CUV craze, but some must be because of the new car's styling.

High prices, no incentives, terrible lease program.

I think they forgot that no one buys sedans, any more.
Once the incentives hit, I'd guess sales will normalize. They finally dropped the money factor for April, but I'd guess more incentives on the horizon.

stickguy

Discovered today that there is an almost complete Tesla showroom going in near me. Hope it isn’t short lived! Might have to stop n someday.

explorerx4

A new Accord in the parking lot at work.
Gray with darker wheels. Putting a plate on the front changes the look a lot.
It was parked next to a gray Fusion, not mine, and the from the door handles up there is a lot of similarity.
Not a fan of the rear lights design.

kyfdx

Genesis G90, in black..

Sort of awkward looking..

stickguy

I am really interested in seeing the new one. g70?

fintail

Not new, but unusual - an Evoque cabrio. Top down, people in it, not ducking to avoid being seen.

kyfdx

No self-awareness. Inveterate nose pickers too, I bet.

explorerx4

Walked by a Kia Niro. Kind of looked like some kind of Mini, to me.

stickguy

a Kia Electric soul.

Mr_Shiftright

A new Jaguar XJ-L.

It''s big, black and expensive. Couldn't tell if it was the V-6 or the V8. Is there script on the trunk or something?

qbrozen

fintail said:

Not new, but unusual - an Evoque cabrio. Top down, people in it, not ducking to avoid being seen.

Same sighting here! Except with top up. I even snapped a pic.

fintail

I bet they've sold at least a dozen of them. Maybe for the CrossCabrio owner who wants a new car.

PF_Flyer

Not often that Willie Wonka uses the McLaren to go get the groceries, but he did today

fintail

Saw what looked like a high spec new Lexus LS in traffic today, with BMW-esque turn signal usage.

Mr_Shiftright

A Tesla Model 3 with a flat black wrap---hey, don't shoot the messenger!

Not sure what the hell the owner was thinking--he seems confused on the concept.

"Got my bad EV,
For the world to see..."

Marin county--the birth of Rap.

explorerx4

In the parking lot at work, a new grey Tuscon(interesting front end) and a white Chevy Equinox.

tjc78

Saw my first Stinger today. Nice Blue color.

Mr_Shiftright

I have to say that even some of the hard-butted reviewers have been heaping praise on the Stinger, at least in terms of its tech, and its bang for the buck.

iluvmysephia1

Once you open up your eyes to the Kia product, study what you're getting, drive, enjoy and reap the great fruitage of that South Korean carmaker, you will heap praise upon them, too. Only it's not just because of the new Stinger, I have owned three Kia's and have felt very well-treated by each one of them.

ab348

Met a friend for lunch today and we rendezvoused at the dealer where I got my ATS since he was there to do some business. On the lot they had a new Cadillac CT6 Twin Turbo Premium Luxury sedan stickered at about $80K Cdn. Man, what an impressive car. Bigger than I realized.

Also looked at the first new Buick Regal I've seen and was less impressed. Looks are kind of awkward and the seats in this one looked cheap with cloth inserts. Disappointed.

andres3

iluvmysephia1 said:

Once you open up your eyes to the Kia product, study what you're getting, drive, enjoy and reap the great fruitage of that South Korean carmaker, you will heap praise upon them, too. Only it's not just because of the new Stinger, I have owned three Kia's and have felt very well-treated by each one of them.

And you never paid $40K or $50K for a Kia before either. I think the Stinger will languish. But only the sales will tell the true story.

Have your Kias been cheap to maintain, or do you avoid dealerships?