Luxury Performance Sedans

hpowders

"All it takes is a spine."

Looks good on paper.

bjbird2

"All it takes is a spine."

A 16 yr. old will be better off in the long run without being given one of these cars. What would they have to look forward to, or earn themselves? A Saleen S7 :confuse:

dhamilton

I live in Houston Texas. 4th biggest city in these here United States. lot's-o-traffic. Give me a stick.
Lunatic fringe reporting for duty sir

lexusguy

You're missing the whole point about the auto biz, there's always something to look foward to! Just look at the difference between the old RL and the new one. As good as these LPS cars are now, they're going to be very different (and most likely much improved) 10 years from now.

rayng

I'm guessing that 10 years from now, we'll be driving golf carts if we don't find an alternative to fossil fuel. This is the golden age of luxury and performance. We should enjoy our rides while we can.

I'd argue that LPS in the future will be self driven. But at least we'll have our fun on the race track.

cmybimmergo

"All it takes is a spine."

Looks good on paper.


Feels even better in person.

cmybimmergo

the gunpowder/explosive charge in the airbag system was designed to be good for only 6 years or so.

Hmmm...if this were so (and I have no clue whether it is), then wouldn't it be checked out and/or replaced during regularly scheduled maintenance? (Not that I remember any mention of it during any of the car's service visits.) To knowingly have a non-functional airbag in a car that's just been serviced makes about as much sense as neglecting to replace the brake pads and rotors when they've worn down to where they can't stop the car.

lexusguy

Eventually the ICE is going the way of the dodo, but I'm sure that it will still be with us in 2016. Its an old dog, but it still has a few tricks (such as HCCI) left up its sleeve, and hydrogen has yet to make any real world sense.

I'm sure that self-driving cars will have a "manual override" mode (they always do in the movies) so I'm not worried.

gohorns1

My first car was an '81 Olds Omega. Yes, we were one of the 3-4 people to buy one. I knew it was grossly underpowered. When you can clearly tell the difference in power when you turn the A/C on and off, its a pretty strong clue. But, it was a great high school car and I had this car through college (really impressed the babes with it )and into med school. It was a great car for what I needed. It got me where I needed to go, at least until the end. I then moved up to my dad's old '84 Maxima with a stick (after the "blue chariot" as it was affectionately known, died on the 5th floor of the garage of the public hospital at 2AM. My parents took pitty on me). The Maxima was a blast to drive, especially relative to the chariot. I am still partial to Nissan and now Infiniti due to that car. I guess first, or in this case second, impressions due count. I also certainly appreciated the nicer car having driven a car that was extinct after two years .

dewey

Ideally it would be great to have 2 vehicles-an Accord with automatic for daily city driving and a 911 stick for exhilarating weekend jaunts.

Ideal with two cars? Maybe for you.

My ideal is one and only one car. And that car would be a BMW M5. With an M5 who needs a sports car? And in addtion the M5 is a practical family hauler. It is two cars in one. . If I had an M5 I would never ever have a roving eye for a second car, not even for a sexy red 911.

killerbunny

go tell a kid you're getting him a used Civic when fellow classmates are driving 330i's.

There are kids driving Ferraris out there. So, the race will never end.

Instead, I might consider finding him a new school where Civics are the norm. And the kid can upgrade to a bimmer if he work part time and pay the differece himself.

james27

A few cars ago, the Saab I had indicated that all of the seat belt tensioner charges should be changed at 10-years. If you are interested in maximum reliability, you'd probably replace all of the things with explosives in them at that time. It will probably work, but is it worth the chance? They do similar things with missiles - they have a shelf-life and they do a lot recertification tests of the old stock to verify it can still be used. I don't think anyone is doing this type of recheck to verify they still work. Given this, it is unlikely that the "new" one you might want to replace is all that new for some designs. If you are lucky, a new one might not be too old.

shipo

"If you are interested in maximum reliability, you'd probably replace all of the things with explosives in them at that time. It will probably work, but is it worth the chance?"

Lat time I checked there were no expiration dates on any of the bullets that I happen to have. Do they use a different type of explosive?

Best Regards,
Shipo

lexusguy

Well, as long as you dont mind lugging around an extra 1,000lbs of midsize sedan heft (compared to a 911 CS), then go right ahead. Just dont try to race your M5 against the guys with GT3s at the local track.

dewey

I know the M5 could use some time at Weight Watchers. But it is my idea of the best compromise a family man can live with(assuming the hefty price is not an object)

lexusguy

What about a 530i and a Miata for the same money?

brightness04

The reason they don't check or replace airbags as regular maintenance is because:
(1) the time horizon is way beyond warranty
(2) it would be very very expensive to replace all the airbags.

Like I said, the info I had was off the top of my head from reading something years ago. A quick search right now yielded this:

http://channels.netscape.com/autos/package.jsp?name=autos/airbag_bomb1

dewey

What about a 530i and a Miata for the same money?

I dont know what the pricing is in the USA for the M5, but in Canada a BMW M5 is equivalent in price to:

BMW 530 + 2 Miatas = BMW M5
2 BMW 530s slightly =< 1 BMW M5

For myself a M5 purchase is merely hypothetical because I find the Canadian prices a rip off. In Canada all small volume cars like the M5 are overpiced when compared to US prices.

The reason for such mispricing is because such low volume cars provide no economies of scale in spreading Canadian regualtory costs( Safety test, emissions/environment etc.)

hpowders

I read somewhere that the M5 is not a practical "city" car.
It tends to want to surge forward in stop and go traffic.
Just what I've read. Have not driven one yet.

pat

That's pretty scary. Add one more danger to the list of what other drivers' negligence/ignorance can do to kill you.

rich545

I have to agree. I could care less what other parents choose to buy their kids. It's pretty crazy to buy an LPS for your child simply so his/her car fits in. Talk about the lunatics running the asylum! I also wouldn't say that it's common where I live (suburban Chicago) to find LPS' in the HS parking lots. Sure, plenty of parents here could afford it, but most have the sense not to buy them for 16 year olds. But hey, we're a country that loves excess in every way so why not teach it to our kids right off the bat?

cmybimmergo

Very scary. I went back to my owner's manual, and there is nothing about airbag monitoring or replacement (nor is it included with the information on the visor). But there is a sensor for the airbag, and I'm figuring that if the system goes bad, the sensor should kick in. So I called a dealer to ask, and that is what they told me, although I "certainly can bring it in to be checked" if I want to be sure.

Of course, this relates only to Lexus, not to any of the other walking time bombs out there.

Afterthought: I'd like to see some real numbers, and not simply speculation, on how often spontaneous deployment actually occurs.

bashir_the_ken

Two years ago there was talk of Lexus launching an in house tuner-AMG like- to be known as the "GT". Whatever happened to that project? It would be interesting to see how an IS 350 GT would fair, considering that the current car's 1/4 mile and acceleration numbers as right at par with the 2005 C 55 AMG's

bjbird2

If a 16 year old starts out with everything, what do they have to aspire to, to work for? That kind of excess kills all goals, drive and incentive for the kid.

bdr127

Just dont try to race your M5 against the guys with GT3s at the local track.

Porsche lists 0-60 for the GT3 at 4.2 sec, while BMW lists 4.5 sec for the new M5.

The electronically-limited top speed for the USA-spec M5 is 155mph, but the Euro-spec (no limiter) is 205mph. Porsche claims the 2007 GT3 will have a top speed of 193mph.

It depends what specific track you're on, but I think a head-to-head race would be pretty close. Regardless, I'd love to watch!

lexusguy

Good question. Lexus seems to want to start copying every aspect of the way the Germans introduce their cars, so I would expect to see "GT" versions (if they are still calling it that) perhaps for the '08 or '09 MY for the cars that were introduced for '06, the IS and GS.

lexusguy

I was talking about SCCA race events, not a drag strip. If you'd like to see what the new M5 can do to the old one though, check out this video.

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=6752&categoryId=1

bdr127

I was talking about SCCA race events, not a drag strip.

Yeah, that's why I said that "it depends what specific track you're on", but I think both would still be pretty neck-and-neck through turns and straight-aways.... As I also said, I'd like to watch the race regardless of what kind of track it is.

If you'd like to see what the new M5 can do to the old one though, check out this video.

That's not just a normal "old" E39 M5, either... That's a Dinan S2!

Anyways, it looks like both are fairly even at lower gears, but once they starting getting up there, the new E60 M5 leaves it well behind.

dewey

So what are the ten wealthiest billionaires in the world driving? It appears Bill Gates taste for cars has changed from the L(Lexus) in LPS to the P(Porsche) in LPS. Kudos to Bill Gates---this shows signs of maturity in knowing what is important in a car.(IMO luxury is frivolous and performance is everything)

Also note that there is not a single Japanese LPS owned among the top 10(the 88 Mazda B series pickup does not count)

Here is the list of their autos:

link title

bdr127

Also note that there is not a single Japanese LPS owned among the top 10(the 88 Mazda B series pickup does not count)

Can you imagine seeing Paul Allen pull up to the local gas station in his Mazda pickup? LOL! I think those trucks are a piece to begin with, but to see one of the wealthiest men in the world driving one.... I guess the Porsche balances it out. :P

bjbird2

Interesting.
I'm more disappointed in Michael Dell than any of the others. For the Hummer, that is...

rayng

Just don't take that m5(6) on a road trip. The amount of time you'll spend filling your tank will enable that turtle-slow Accord to catchup and pass.

Two cars are always better than one--especially if you have a daily drive so you don't have to compromise on the sports car.

rayng

What's interesting is what they don't drive: no Lambos, no 300cs, and other pimp-mobiles. Most of these guys don't drive high maintenance cars. Most of these guys don't drive new cars. What does this say? The alpha males of our universe are pretty smart, and generally don't spend too much on their rides. They also don't seem to customize very much and prefer their cars stock. Are there other lessons here?

lexusguy

Thats not really news, Gates has always had a thing for Porsches, specifically his 959. While there isnt a Japanese LPS on the list, there also isnt a single 7, A8, or S-class either, so I dont think Lexus' feelings are hurt.

lexusguy

The truly wealthy usually prefer to stay under the radar, and spend their money on their homes, rather than cars. This isnt the crowd that buys 28" double chrome wheels for their hummers. In my dealings with Susquehanna over the years I've met Louis Appel on a few occasions, he's the richest guy in my area. The guy drives an early '90s Taurus.

docnukem

Given recent discussions about school parking lots, I think a far more fascinating and telling list would be what cars their kids drive. I know many of those on the list may not have kids old enough to drive yet, but Forbes could create a list of the richest people with high-school age kids.

dewey

but Forbes could create a list of the richest people with high-school age kids.

Does anybody know if Bill Gates has a son by the name of
"Greg is a god at 13"

I am willing to wager that the cars you see in affluent high schools will not match the list of cars owned by the wealthiest billionaires.

cmybimmergo

I know that at least some of the members of this forum are old enough to remember the term "nouveau riche." It's the nouveau riche who are spending to impress; the old money crowd know better. Of course, as Bill Gates and those of his ilk show, nouveau riche and old money are more states of mind than descriptions of where the money came from.

jrock65

The super rich may have average cars, but the ALL have $20M+ homes and several other million dollar estates around the world. Gates's house is Seattle is reportedly worth $60M.

All except Warren Buffett of course. His house is worth like $700,000. I have no idea what the guy does with his money. Just keeps on investing, and giving to charity I guess.

docnukem

I would bet that you could break the cars that the truly wealthy own into one of three groups.

1) Those that worked their tails off for years.
2) Those that made their money relatively quickly with the "killer app", dot-com bubble, or other singular idea at the right time.
3) Those that made their money the really old-fashioned way--they inherited it.

Group one owns the inconspicuous nice car down to the old beater.

Group two owns the 959's and other flashy/expensive cars.

Group three owns the Bentleys and Rolls.

markcincinnati

. . .rich folks vs really rich folks. One group of rich folks has good income, some wealth and decent cash flow, they are usually under 40. They drive the Audi, BMW and Mercedes high five and low six figure cars, if they are the more gregarious types (not that there is anything wrong with that.)

The really rich folks seem to drive nice, but oddly inexpensive or older versions of expensive cars that they got years ago. I don't personally know the most recent (former) owner of the Cincinnati Reds, but he eats at the same medium upscale restaurant as I -- he has a Rolls.

Other very well off people based on either reputation or personal knowledge drive, for instance, the most expensive Lexus made but it has over 200,000 miles on it and it has been repainted twice and had lots of TLC to keep it going.

Another such individual drives a Honda mini van and has a very nice SRX with all the toys on it. The third such person I know drives an Avalon. The president of a software company that I know drives BMW's -- one at a time, has had a two seater, followed by a coupe followed by a five then a 7 and now back to the Z car. He is all over the board. Once a $75,000+ car then a $39,000 car.

Another guy buys Audi A6's w/ the 4.2's probably topping out at $63K.

The guy who owns the BMW store is often seen in his 1997 M3 or his 2006 X3. Who knows what's what.

The [former] owner of the Audi store has an A6 and a Boxster. The sales manager, however, has an A8L.

The guy that sold me mine had an A6, now has an A4 avant.

My millionaire next door cousin drives ONLY cars that cost "a couple of thousand dollars." Yet he has a million dollar apartment in Venice, Italy and more commercial real estate than he can remember.

Now HE bothers me, for his cars are literally rickety and have bald tires and barely working accessories, such as the wipers.

Takes all kind in this LPS world.

OK, so I sit here today on casual Friday with my Tissot watch but wearing my Prada Shoes -- shoes bought and paid for by Audi of America in recognition of my long and loyal patronage. What makes them worth nearly $400 -- thanks to Audi for buying them for me with a Nieman Marcus gift card!

To repeat: takes all kinds.

"Odd" though that there is a paucity of Japanese cars in the list, don't you think?

Have a great weekend, spring, here in Cincinnapolis, is in the air.

:shades:

lexusguy

There are actually some pretty interesting cars in my neighborhood, including a Z8, a 911 GT2, and a 360 Modena. These are all owned by very well off people obviously, but none of them are super rich. I dont think billionares have time to think about cars.

brightness04

Not only is there not a singele Japanese LPS, there isn't a single LPS at all! Lincolns and pickup trucks won the day. We are all driving the wrong type of vehicles; that must be the reason why we are not as rich as they are ;-)

bdr127

Here's my theory as to why these bajillionaires don't drive the seriously upscale cars.... They know they depreciate heavily. I'm sure they have plenty of valuable property and realize that it will probably appreciate, too. Perhaps they are just more wise with their money and put into something that grows rather than withers away.... Any thoughts?

hit

Well.. I decided I've worked my [non-permissible content removed] off hard enough and earned the privilage to buy myself a nice car. I started off driving an early ninties 740iL as my 2nd car, and that's what got me hooked on what it is to ENJOY driving, as opposed to what other cars do: get you from point A to point B. I have a 03 Honda Accord v6 coupe now, and I'll be selling that.

But my question is this: what is the best car to get for me? I'm 21 yrs old -- looking for a luxurious and enjoyable ride.. but I want a bit of kick in the car as well (so 525 is out of the question, and I'm not a fan of the new BMW styling anyway). My primary focus right now is on a m45 sport, but it seems many people here are fans of Audi and Lexus. I will be leasing, and ~700 a month is my cutoff... so unfortunetly I can't really allow myself an E55 or a 750 just yet.

docnukem

It depends on your needs. If you don't need a large car, you can get a lot of kick out of a 330, or G35 (I love the coupe, it's just not practical for me). If you want more luxury, then you will probably have to move up to the M35/45, 530/550, A6, RL, or GS. Any vehicle discussed on this board will give you luxury and some kick to varying degrees.

The next big question is how much a stick is worth to you, because that shakes out most of 'em.

lexusguy

I think you'll like the M, its about as close as you can get to a 550i without actually getting a 550i.

Personally, I'm not that big of a fan of the new A6, but if you want a V8 and AWD, the Infiniti is automatically out.

If you like the M45 sport, I dont think you're going to like the GS430. The computer brakes and computer steering take away just about all the fun, and while technically VDIM can be shut down (using a fun 13 step service code every time you start the car) its not the right car for the performance minded driver. The GS300 is actually more fun to drive, too bad it has just 245hp.

anthonyp

I`m telling you `They are into planes` Mr Buffet --a good many years ago--finally allowed his company to get a small jet....He was quite agast at it`s cost but relented as it permitted him to get around more conveniently..Eventually he got into the plane leasing business--although I`m not sure it is profitable...That led into pilot training equipment... At the private airport the parking lot is mostly Suburbans ...Go out sometimes and take a look for yourselves -and report back what you see...Tony

hit

I can defintely live without a stick, the auto w/ manual shift is good enough for when I want to have fun with the car.

cmybimmergo

Maybe it's that those who have the serious money don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops; they're not trying to impress anyone, and anyway, everyone knows what they have. So they drive whatever pleases them/serves their purpose, regardless of the cost. Those who just want everyone else to think they have a lot of money might be more inclined to make ostentatious purchases.

Also, when you literally can have anything you want, any time you want it, it kind of takes the fun out of getting it. So why bother?