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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Member Posts: 265
    Or maybe we're all analyzing too deeply here, and for at least some of them, a car is simply something to get you from point A to point b, so why spend a bundle when something perfectly acceptable can be gotten for a (relative) pittance?

    And then there's D) all of the above. ;)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I spent all of the 68 miles I drove today in tip-tronic manual mode. Someone kill me now, it is so lame, bogus, wimpy, flaccid, tepid and any other weak and limp words I could ever imagine. "S" mode, at least reacts reasonably close to normal -- tip-manual mode is like watching a movie with lip synch problems. Who had this bright idea anyway?

    Unless I left the dang thing in 2nd or 3rd gear I was NOT feeling EVER I was in the right gear. Now, you long time posters and readers know that I have had dozens of stick shift cars -- the manu-matic isn't even close.

    I do not fault your want for a car that reduces the things you have to do to drive it. Frankly I can even understand this want/need.

    I just want to be able to have a car with the lux and power and AWD performance of an A6 that comes with the OPTION of a stick shift. I do not want to impose my personal lunatic fringe desires on you.

    But PLEEEEESE don't tell me the manu-matic is even close to a stick shift. My 6 speed tipronic is the best automatic I have ever had. This is like telling you the last root canal I had was the least painful of the root canals I have had in the past 54 years. "Well, that may be true, but it is STILL a root canal."

    Now, having said all this (and repeated it often), I actually "like" my tiptronic. Having driven the DSG and CVT (both in Audis, one of them with the wonderful 3.2 engine), I could almost certainly learn to LOVE the DSG and soon forget the tiptronic or as some call these things, "slop-tronic" transmission and the manual transmissions.

    Forgive me but I find it difficult to imagine that anyone who took a long test drive in a BMW 5 series with the stick or an Audi S4 or even A4 3.2 with stick shifts, would find the automatics currently offered "superior" in ANY way, unless you MUST use a hand held cell phone (which will be outlawed within this decade, I am confident.)

    Yep, I am the screaming voice in the wilderness.

    For I would actually pay MORE for a stick shift version of an A6 SLine or a BMW 530xi sport (if one actually would be brought to this side of the Atlantic.)

    On the other hand, I am, despite my protestations to the contrary, not unwilling to just "go with the flow" and buy the auto versions.

    I have met the enemy and it is ME.

    Of course those of you who think the "P" should be completely removed from the LPS cars remain, unsympathetic and unempathetic -- and the latter "un" is the most disconcerting.

    Whatya gonna do? :confuse:
  • rayngrayng Member Posts: 70
    Cars are just for transportation. Those who want to go in style a little faster, tend to have their own planes.

    The point though is that we much of the appeal of LPS is the symbol of success that we thing we can show to ourselves, family, or neighbors.

    If we were really rich, why would we buy bmws or Benz? Before each of these rich guys became rich, I bet they didn't drive the kind of cars we own now.

    We are the suckers that pay the high profits enjoyed by investors like Buffett.

    My 911 has already depreciated $6k since I bought it two weeks ago. :cry:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The super rich may have average cars

    Before each of these rich guys became rich, I bet they didn't drive the kind of cars we own now.

    a car is simply something to get you from point A to point b, so why spend a bundle when something perfectly acceptable can be gotten for a (relative) pittance?

    Maybe it's that those who have the serious money don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops;


    Most the billionaires on the list do not own average cars that are worth a pittance. In fact most their cars are ostentatious:

    Porsche 911 convertible
    Porsche 959
    Bentley Flying Spur
    Bentley Continental GT
    Rolls Royce Phantom
    Hummer H2( I would not call this SUV a humble vehicle)

    Oh yes there are the exceptional billionaires like Warren Buffet. Dont forget Buffet has to live up to his folksy and humble persona. Can you imagine how many Buffet fans would be turned off if he bought himself a Maybach? Warren would not ruin his folksy reputation by buying a Maybach even if owning such a car is what he truly desires.

    Another exception is Alice Walton. This is a lady rancher who is not afraid to break her nails. What sounds more appropriate for her: a elegant silky soft luxury car or a pick up?
    And Jim Walton her brother. Yes his cars are modest but have you noticed that his car collection includes a 59 Cadillac. If this Cadillac is in mint condition it may be worth even more than the newest Rolls Royce.

    The one exception I cant explain is Ballmer. He desires to buy the upcoming Lincoln Zephyr(a ostentatious version of the Mazda6). Maybe Ballmer is a Buffet fan :confuse:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Just don't take that m5(6) on a road trip. The amount of time you'll spend filling your tank will enable that turtle-slow Accord to catchup and pass.

    After receiving a real nasty speeding ticket two weeks ago the most practical thing for me to do is forget the sports car and just buy a turtle slow i4 manual Accord.

    Unfortunately I am very unpractical.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Also, when you literally can have anything you want, any time you want it, it kind of takes the fun out of getting it. So why bother?

    Oh, is that so? Are you speaking from genuine experience or are you really just making your best guess?

    :P

    TagMan
  • mnrep2mnrep2 Member Posts: 200
    The Infiniti FX 45 and an Acura Integra were listed. While not neccesarily considered LPS they are certainly premier japanese makes...

    What was more surprising was no BMW's in any ones garage.
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    I agree. I think we should stay away from generalizations about rich people. What if said really rich person enjoys driving? He/she is going to get a nice car. If you love driving a Ford pick-up is hardly going to suffice. Having grown up near Greenwich, CT I can tell you that there are plenty of old money, ultra rich people there that drive really expensive cars. Just look at what dealerships are in the town (just about every really expensive brand in either in Greenwich or close at hand). They have to be selling those cars to someone, and Greenwich is one of the richest towns in the nation.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Having grown up near Greenwich, CT I can tell you that there are plenty of old money, ultra rich people there that drive really expensive cars. Just look at what dealerships are in the town (just about every really expensive brand in either in Greenwich or close at hand). They have to be selling those cars to someone, and Greenwich is one of the richest towns in the nation.

    I lived for a year or two in Norwalk, CT, and I drove up and down Putnam Ave in Greenwich a few times just to admire the amazing dealerships there... Wow! The Rolls Royce "palace" on the corner is just a beautiful sight. You can see all of the world's finest vehicles in just a 1-2 mile stretch. Awesome for any car lover.
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    Sounds like Newport Beach/Laguna Beach, CA. Last spring while waiting at a red light in that area (in my rental Taurus), I saw a Lambo Murcielago and a Porsche Carrera GT in the space of 20 seconds. The GT turned a corner and floored it. It sounded like a jet fighter spooling up, only faster.

    The maids drive 330i's.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Sounds like you are badly in need of a Valentine One.
    Just follow the arrows....
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Sorry about the ticket---I haven`t had one in a really long time, but I remember it well --right now-- Tony
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    The one billionaire I know personally, drives an 93 Buick station wagon with fake wookgrain side panels. But then, he is 89 years old, and I know he had a 911 when he was much younger.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I've not had good luck in the past with radar detectors. I'm more than happy to go 85 in a crowd, but when the roads are more empty, I try to keep it to no more than 12 over. It works pretty well, at least in PA.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    ...drives a white Bentley Convertible...

    He is in his '80s, and you can still see him regularly, tooling around with the top down...

    He is a self-made billionaire.... started from scratch..

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  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Just got back from a cruise through Greenwich. Stopped on Greenwich Ave for a Toffee Nut Latte at Starbucks. It was over 60 degrees here today. The drop-top Bentleys, Rollers and sundry, hoi polloi, garage-queen Porsches were out yawing after their winter slumber. I also had a Lambo sighting. But after this week’s LPS forum they can no longer fool me—I was asking Ford-pickup owners for their autographs.

    ;-)
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,674
    Former Westport denizen here (no, I am not one of Staples High most famous graduates, Marilyn Chambers...), worked for a year in Greenwich on Putnam Ave. I, too, used to enjoy the Putnam Ave. stroll! I actually bought my first new car in Greenwich, 1985 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo. Replaced my first car ever, the beloved '78 VW Scirocco purchased used from a cabinetmaker in Nyack, NY if memory serves. Now, I'm getting misty...

    I now live a stone's throw from an "Automile" which while having all the usual suspects, will be enhanced this spring with a brand spankin' new Porsche/Audi and Jaguar dealer. Oh, boy! Which, to post somewhat to topic, will have Luxury Performance Sedans... :D

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    Lexus announced that the GS300 will become the GS350 this fall, estimated 305hp, and the GS430 will become the GS480 next spring. This has been much anticipated and is now official.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    This makes no sense unless the 08 LS460 becomses a LS480.
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    "This makes no sense unless the 08 SL460 becomes a LS480."

    Why not? BMW for years has offered the same engines in the 5-series as the 7.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Do you have any information that indicates a LS460 engine will be indentical to a GS480 engine? Why the different numeric values?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Lexus has used the same V8 in all of their cars since 1990 (the 4.0 from '90-'00, and the 4.3 from '01-'06). If it really is going to be the GS480 (this is the first I've heard of a 4.8L engine) it would be the first time in the history of the company that the GS and LS have not used the same engine. I seriously doubt that Lexus would develop a new 4.6L V8 for the LS just to replace it after a year. Plus, havent they already registered GS350 and GS460 (not 480) with the trademark office?
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Member Posts: 692
    Sorry, what's coming next spring is the GS460, not 480. My typo. Estimated HP is 380. Yes, Lexusguy, they have trademark registered these two names(350 and 460)a year or more ago, which led some of us to hope the new GS would have the 3.5L engine from the getgo (as it did in Japan). Don't quite understand why they didn't use it here right away. Did they develop this 3.0L engine just for one car and for one year?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "Don't quite understand why they didn't use it here right away. Did they develop this 3.0L engine just for one car and for one year?"

    Yeah, I never understood that either. The only possible explaination I can think of is that they didnt want the GS350 having more horsepower than the GS430.

    As for the 3.0, I'm sure it must be going somewhere in other markets, as Toyota's 3.3L powered cars (and the ES) are all getting the 3.5L here in the states.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Caught speeding, try using this excuse at your own risk

    The accelerator has jammed, the brakes have burned out and I'm trapped in my BMW doing 130mph
    His terrifying journey, which was followed by four police cars and a helicopter, ended when he smashed the car into a roundabout, flipping it on its roof.
    Amazingly, the former lorry driver walked away from the accident uninjured
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Wow, thats a crazy story.

    Another excuse could be the one by the guy in the smashed Enzo, that a "mystery driver" did it, and then "got away".
  • moxiemoxie Member Posts: 33
    Truly astounding report! Never heard of anything remotely like this happening before. Poor guy was fortunate to survive.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Amazing how the hp in this class keeps inching upwards. Once if a V8 in this class had 290-300hp it was considered very powerful, now 300hp is nothing. A 382hp E550, 380hp GS460 and 360hp 550i. I guess Audi will have to drop in their more potent version of their 4.2L V8 from the Q7, 350hp (?). Jaguar and Acura will have to sit by and watch the class leave them further behind. Oh how I remember that ridiculous claim Acura used to make about their V6 being able to compete with the V8s of this class. Jaguar realized the S-Type R couldn't compete with the old M5 or E55 so they dropped the price more in line with the 545i and E500, but with a pending E550 and current 550i getting ever so close to that 400hp rating and the 550i having a stick available the S-Type R has probably lost any advantage it may have had. I would bet a 550i Sport with a manual is a direct match for the 400hp S-Type R.

    I wonder who will be first in this class to offer 400hp on a non-tuner model? Infiniti's inevitable facelift of the M45 maybe?

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The S-type R was never all that fast anyway. Jaguar's gearing doesnt allow for ultra agressive launches, so I think it's 0-60 is somewhere around 5.5 seconds, which the current crop of V8 LPS cars can do easily.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I wonder when Jaguar will get a new V8? I would have thought the new XK would bring one, but then I forgot they don't have the money for a clean-sheet V8.

    I remember when a 0-60 time of 5.5 secs could only be done with the Porsche-built Mercedes E500 of many years ago and M5 of that time!

    M
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Why is aggression playing a bigger role in the styling and design of new sedans? Good article from Wall Street Journal: :mad: :mad: :mad:

    If Looks Could Kill

    Car makers have long talked about the "face" of a car -- headlights for eyes, grille for a mouth and the bumper as jaws -- and auto designers say the difference between a hit and a flop may come down to a vehicle's visage. Car makers used to strive for an inviting face, but lately they're pushing an edgier look: Car faces that look meaner, angrier and, at times, even downright evil.

    ., says of the Audi Q7, which he plans to buy when it comes out this spring. "It reminds me of the movie 'The Mummy' -- when the monster comes out of the ground and starts swallowing everything."

    Menacing front ends may appeal to drivers threatened by oversized SUVs and intimidated by the dangers of the highway,
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Funny you should post this. Just the other day I was thinking to myself that, right now, the most menacing looking car on the U.S. roads is the Dodge Charger SRT8. In black, the thing just looks downright EVIL! Whereas the standard Charger is just not attractive at all.

    BTW, you have to be a subscriber to view your link. Good thing you posted that excerpt.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah, I've been wondering that myself. Strangely, larger versions of the AJ-V8 are around, such as the 4.4L, 305hp version used in the Range Rover. Granted its only 5hp and 15ft.lbs of torque more than the standard Jag 4.2, but its at least something. Thats actually more of a change than there was from LS400 to LS430, where it received an extra 20ft.lbs at 600 fewer revs and that was it.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Here's a pic of the new interior of the GS450h. I've got to say it . . . it's boring. There's no way to put a spin on it. It's too plain and it's absolutely nothing to get excited about. IMO, it's a shame.

    link title

    I think what bothers me the most is that it is a wasted opportunity.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I dont get it, its the same as the regular GS, minus the tach. What were you expecting? By the way, Edmunds has reviewed the car.
  • kssod1kssod1 Member Posts: 50
    I wonder if Lexus is changing any of the handling dynamics when they upgrade the engine to the 3.5l. The biggest complaint by all reviewers seems to be that the GS just doesn't drive well, very disconnected compared to the RL. In my test the RL certainly seemed better than the GS and more like my Jag X-Type sport.
    Subjectively I feel the GS exterior looks better, the Lexus red is way better than the Acura, but the Acura interior is alittle better, Lexus has too much plastic.
    The Lexus ignition button is better, and the 6speed tranny is betterthan the Acura 5 speed and should have a significant acceleration advantage.
    Currently the Cap cost on a RL is less than 44k with $250 out of pocket on the Acura website. A comparable GS AWD with the 3.5l and nav/Ml audio will probably sticker for
    53k and be sold at around 50K giving the Acura a 6k advantage.
    Any thoughts?
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I just read the review. I love it. An LPS with ton of power and easy on gas (relatively). I was not sure about what to replace my current GS when 2007 comes around. There are too many choices for LPS right now, but this one should help my decision tremendously i.e. staying with Lexus reputation and own an LPS without much guilt. There maybe one small problem that Lexus can't keep up with the demand for the vehicle... I guess I will have a year to see how this plays out.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    staying with Lexus reputation and own an LPS without much guilt.

    Oh my God that's terrible. Are you really feeling guilty??
    Is your guilt focused on cars or due to spirtitual angst?

    If it is related to cars then I can assure you that if every driver drove a GS450H our planet would be dead sooner than later.

    There maybe one small problem that Lexus can't keep up with the demand for the vehicle... I guess I will have a year to see how this plays out.

    That maybe the case for the Prius but certainly not the case for any other hybrid produced by Lexus or Toyota. In fact in Canada with our lacklustre hybrid tax incentives you could have purchased a Prius two years ago(when Prius waiting lists in the USA were longest) and have it delivered in only two months( I know because two years ago my wife was pondering replacing her vintage 83 MB300D with a Prius).

    Unless Lexus intends to sell only a few dozen GS450Hs in Canada, you will have no need to worry about waiting lists.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Here is the link for anyone who hasn't seen it: Full Test: 2007 Lexus GS 450h.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I wouldnt expect any real changes to the handling. As far as I know, this is a displacement bump and thats it. I like the GS300 better than the 430 which feels totally artificial, but its still not really a sports sedan. The Acura's interior is more interesting, but I think that center stack ruins the whole affair. How do you feel about the M35x?
  • kssod1kssod1 Member Posts: 50
    m35x interior is gimicky, and exterior is non descript. 2007 g35(7) if it looks like the concept coupe might be the best option. Still love the look of the X-Type
  • docnukemdocnukem Member Posts: 485
    I must be stupid, but all this time I thought the 450H was going to be the V8 with the hybrid engine. So Lexus wants to sell a gs350 equivalent as a hybrid and mark it up 6000 dollars over the V8? How much more than the base gs350 will that be? That sounds like a serious money-grab. I could understand a mark-up of that much over the base 350 (or even a little more).
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Oh my God that's terrible. Are you really feeling guilty??
    Is your guilt focused on cars or due to spirtitual angst?


    None of the above. My guilt focuses on not having to burn up too much $ (gasoline)when dusting off pesky 3 series. These people always seem to have some thing to prove when we lined up in front of everyone at red lights. :D
    Seriously, I do about 95% of my driving around city streets in the GTA, so I prefer a car with a lot of torque at low speed.

    That maybe the case for the Prius but certainly not the case for any other hybrid produced by Lexus or Toyota. In fact in Canada with our lacklustre hybrid tax incentives you could have purchased a Prius two years ago

    If I read the review correctly, the premium is only USD 6000 above the current GS430, and that is not bad at all IMHO. I can't comment on tax incentives since I don't even consider them. My reaction to the review based solely on the fact that I could be owning a capable LPS that is totally different than anything out there at similar price.

    Unless Lexus intends to sell only a few dozen GS450Hs in Canada, you will have no need to worry about waiting lists
    I think someone mentioned that Lexus is not planning to make too many of these GS450H.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Well, you can always buy another X-type. I think Jag has a "buy one get one free!" special going on right now.

    And there's also the XJ, which the X-type's look is basically a scaled down version of. '04 XJ8s are VERY affordable. In fact, you could get into a low miles '04 XJR for under 50.
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    "My guilt focuses on not having to burn up too much $ (gasoline)when dusting off pesky 3 series. These people always seem to have some thing to prove when we lined up in front of everyone at red lights"

    Let's see now, GS450h for $57,000 (est. base) gets 22 mpg (Edmunds' figure) and 5.5 sec. 0-60 (Edmunds). BMW 330i for $36,600 (base) gets 21/29 mpg (EPA) and 6.2 sec. 0-60 (Road & Track).

    So you dust the Bimmer at the corner stoplight (but you'd best stay away from the twisties) at a cost of $20K and a mileage sacrifice. I'd feel real guilty with your announced motives and that performance. What is it YOU have to prove?
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    You are missing my point. I am not trying to start a comparison between GS and 3. Just having some fun with certain 3 series owning member whom likes to pick on anything Lexus.

    ;)

    Btw, I think it will keep up with the 550 too, without poluting the environment as much right?
    :surprise:
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Here's a pic of the new interior of the GS450h. I've got to say it . . . it's boring. There's no way to put a spin on it. It's too plain and it's absolutely nothing to get excited about. IMO, it's a shame.

    Blah... I think the center stack is horrendous-looking, IMO.
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    Seems to me the mileage improvement of the GS450 is so meagre as to be negligible. It's embarrassing, really, to charge a $6K premium for what--an annual savings of about $500 at 12,000 miles/year?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The only real purpose of the GS450h seems to be to give the person who wants to be able to say "I drive a hybrid" something that is still a powerful luxury car that makes no real compromises (other than trunk space). They only expect about 2000 sales a year, so there probably wont be a lot of those people.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I must be stupid, but all this time I thought the 450H was going to be the V8 with the hybrid engine. So Lexus wants to sell a gs350 equivalent as a hybrid and mark it up 6000 dollars over the V8? How much more than the base gs350 will that be? That sounds like a serious money-grab. I could understand a mark-up of that much over the base 350 (or even a little more).

    Wow, I made the same assumption.... With the "450" nomeclature, I assumed it would be an 8-cylinder like the GS430 and LS430. But for it to be a 3.5L V6 gas/electric, I would say the naming is somewhat misleading...
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