Will line up and buy anything at any price that honda makes..................... At least thats what they thought with the ridgeline........... Now with the accord sales slipping. Maybe a employee pricing deal soon?
Nono, they'll build the "truckord"...which will badsically be an Accord converted into an El Camino. But hey, it's a truck, so it'll sell, especially when they put on AWD and jack up the suspension. And people will be willing to pay the extra 5 grand for it looking like a truck...
Oh, wait a sec, didn't they already call that the Ridgeline?
Nono, they'll build the "truckord"...which will badsically be an Accord converted into an El Camino. But hey, it's a truck, so it'll sell, especially when they put on AWD and jack up the suspension. And people will be "willing to pay the extra 5 grand for it looking like a truck..."
I think someone posted the sales forcast at one time. IIRC, it really wasn't that high, and 50K might be about right.
At least it is a new market niche for Honda, so it isn't quite as likely that they are stealing sales frm themselves.
The baja really was a different animal, in size and purpose. The Avalanche was the same concept, but a whole lot bigger.
The new Civic you should be able to know eal quick if it is a hit or miss. Something like the ridgeline needs a while (at least a year) to get established enough to tell if it is a flop or not.
I think that Honda could be well served by expanding the model range (like with the Ridgeline) to diviersify a bit more. The Fit will be a good start, allowing them to compete for the low price/young/entry level buyer that the Civic used to own, expecially since the Civic seems to be growing into an Accord class size!
next, how about a micro-van to compete with the Mazda 5? Honda certainly has the 4 cyl. engines to make this work, and already has this type of vehicle in Europe and japan. Just adapt it for the US. Shouldn't be a huge investment, kinda like when they created the Element out of the CRV.
There are still a lot of folks that miss the old civic space wagon, and even the original Odyssey. I've seen quite a few of them latching onto the Mazda as the spiritual successor to the old Hondas.
Again, probably won't steal many current buyers, although maybe it will take a few Ody people or CRV/ELement ones.
At least it is trying something new/creative, something which used to be a Honda trait, before they became overly conservative.
That, and get some new stylists. Hire someone from Peugeut or Renault if they have to.
I dunno - Honda was more successful back in the day when they only had the Accord, Civic, and Prelude to worry about - they totally re-did them every 4 years like clockwork and they blew away the competition..... Maybe Honda is spread too thin now? I don't think they need to further dilute themselves with more models.
but the market has changed quite a bit from the good old days. They do need the diversification, especially if they want to grow, but they do need to keep the product fresh.
What are the mainstream models running, 5 year change cycles now? Still competitive with the rest of the industry 9and better than many).
Avalanche actually sold pretty well...and it's not like they invested a whole lot, most of it was off the shelf.
Honda saw the shift towards trucks, more than half the market is trucks now. Prelude was doing such tiny volumes I'm sure the Ridgeline would have a better shot.
Baja was a flop for a lot of reasons - small size being a biggie, and that's a problem the Ridgeline doesn't have.
I'm not really suggesting that they drop the Ody, CR-V, Pilot, etc... That would be crazy...... But, I do think, there definitely seems to be a correlation between them expanding their lineup (maybe too much) and them losing their "edge". Like I said above, you used to be able to expect Honda to re-do a car every 4 years, and it would be a big upgrade over the old model. Maybe they just have too many balls in the air. I know we talk in the GM thread about how GM would be better off if they dropped a division or 2 and focused on fewer models. I think the same is true to some extent for Honda.
(if you pass your cursor over the car's pictures, the link shows the car's English name - you can actually navigate through most of the site this way)
Other than the Fit/Jazz, I think the Stream would work here. Its three rows of two probably work better than the Edix's two rows of three (FR-V in Europe). I also like the Airwave, a small, 1.5L-engined wagon.
The Step Wagon is the most interesting on the inside, but as usual for Honda of late, the exterior ruins the experience.
Without a doubt, the small SUV segment is expanding and the CR-V will likely move up to mid-size anyway, leaving the compact SUV for the quirky and van-like Element.
HR-V would be a conventional compact SUV and would not overlap with any current offering. Honda would then have conventional SUVs in size small/medium/large (ish).
In fact I think the HR-V would sell better than the Fit/Jazz. The Fit would probably help the Civic, since the Civic would no longer be seen as entry level, but Americans will buy very few of them even at low prices.
Stream could come in and compete with the Mazda5. I bet Honda is watching to see how the 5 sells, because in the past many have tried and failed.
davem, there's no going back. Then Honda was small, could live with a small line up. If anything, Honda's current line-up is not diversified enough. They don't have a rwd platform, a truck platform.
Honda's problem is not its models are not renewed often enough. Exhibit A: current Camry and Altima are both older than Accord, but their sales are not sliding like Accord.
Would be very interesting to know what Honda thinks is wrong with Accord and Civic's sales!
I like the Mazda5. My wife and I are giving it serious consideration as a replacement for our CR-V when the critter is born. But, despite my own personal taste for that vehicle, I have no doubt it will be a niche seller. Honda still has bigger fish to fry. Besides, I think the Stream is going away as soon as they can ramp up production of the FR-V/Edix.
Even the more rabid Honda-philes will admit that the HR-V is not up to spec. Honda will release non-US style vehicles like the Air Stream and US fans will go gaga. But nobody wants the HR-V. It handles poorly, accelerates slowly, and doesn't have any cargo space. There's almost nothing to like about it. Perhaps the next generation HR-V, if they decide to continue with it.
It's based on the diminuitive Fiesta platform, 1.0l-2.0l engine sizes. The cargo space it smaller than what's behind the Pilot's 3rd row, you can barely fit a pair of grocery bags, yet it's trendy and popular.
HR-V seems quite a bit bigger. It could use some more SUV-ish styling but check out the inside:
Fit will be a 5-door. The popularity of those seems to be on the rise again. But I don't think Honda's problem is that it isn't selling a cheap enough car. They need to make it a NICE car at the price. I will bet the current Civic DX felt cheap and under-equipped in late 2000 when it came out, and now almost five years later, it feels SUPER cheap and under-equipped.
Microvans are a dubious proposition, I think. Let's see if Mazda sells any. Now a small cute ute to slot below CRV and go head to head with RAV might be just the ticket.
Of all the individual models carlisimo linked, the only one I really like the looks of is the Edix/FR-V. I have always disliked the Stream; the Fit is OK, I think it will sell as a funky-style Japanese car. The Airwave might sell like that too, in the same vein that xB has sold on its funky JDM looks.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
caught our eye. Went and looked at one. It's nice. Gee was a little more impressed than I was. After I got over my CCB syndrome I didn't want to part with the Civic for the Mazda5. Yes, the 5 is way more practical with a 15 month old BUT for the price different between the Civic and Mazda5 we can keep the Civic and buy a nice used CR-V or RAV4.
I would expect the upcoming Civic to be way ahead of the current in terms o features and refinement. Just as the 03 Accord DX was fairly well-equipped compared to the 98-02. And it's even more so now that side curtain airbags are standard equipment.
Anyone else heard about that? It would certainly boost the Accord's image, especially with positive press that would have a halo effect on other models.
the most exciting part is that it is getting the 6MT for the 6-cyl version! Yesssss. Don't think it will hurt Acura all that much though - the Accord V-6 is lower powered than the TL, and both the TSX and TL have MUCH better reflexes than the Accord does. Not to mention an altogether better interior.
Fit will also compete with the Spectra5 and Rio5, Elantra 5-door, perhaps Mazda3 hatch, might even steal a few Matrix/Vibe buyers. It is getting to be a busy segment when you think about it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Wouldn't it be tuned sportier, isn't it that way with the Accord coupe?
Fit is smaller than most of those. It's a B class car, most of those are C.
Space efficiency is very good, though. Plus the rear seat base folds up, like on some pickups, so you can load tall stuff. Pretty versatile little car. I just think US tastes won't take a liking to it.
Pilot looks unchanged except for the headlights, and I guess the grille is probably different. The rest of the car, the un-camoflaged part, looks the same as the current one.
The RDX is too heavily disguised to tell anything!
I saw an Element on the road with the plastic "cladding" painted body color. Maybe it was just an aftermarket job? But, it looked nice. A big improvement on the looks of the Element, IMO.
with some 2006 Honda information posted. The information has since been removed but IIRC there was a 2006 Element EX-P. The P could possibly stand for painted body panels. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
The masking on that RDX looks like they copied the "kidney" grille from BMW or maybe Pontiac. Can't really see much with all the masking on it, but the roof line looks longer and more level than the arched roof on the RDX concept.
It also looks bigger. Not big enough to be the MDX, but slightly bigger than I was expecting. I wonder if it isn't a next gen CR-V.
Autospies made the same observation about the BMW-esque grille.
This is the MMC for the Pilot. Just a refresh. The MDX gets the update next year. Typically, models built on such similar platforms are only separated by a single year. Makes me wonder if the Pilot's final year will be a short one.
TOV is reporting that the turbo may be back on track for the RDX. Apparently, the NVH and reliability issues have been worked out.
That's just the car cover - the real grille underneath probably looks totally different - I think it was just an attempt to make spy photographers think they were looking at a new X3 or something like that... I doubt the real RDX has a BMW-esque "twin kidney" grille.
Oh yeah, I know it's only the cover. I just it was amusing that they chose to cover it up with something that has BMW details.
Kinda like those T-shirts that have a tuxedo painted on the front.
Juice - I don't think the Pilot is getting the full Ridgeline treatment. It's just getting lights and maybe a bumper which have an edgier quality like the Ridge.
yeah, the V-6 6MT Accord coupe gets extra-sporty handling bits, but it is also quite pricey. I was kinda thinking maybe they would just make the 6MT available on the existing Accord V-6 sedan chassis. They don't make the manual 4-cyl models any sportier than the automatics, after all. If they start adding sport suspensions to V-6 Accords with the manual and the price climbs near $30K sticker, then you are right - they will encroach on Acura territory and probably shoot themselves in the foot on Accord sales, because at that price, who isn't going to find a way to spring for the TL instead? It has a much better interior and more power, not to mention a standard LSD in manual-equipped models. Also better warranty, and perhaps a whiff of Acura panache.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Getting a little prompting to try the TL 6-speed it seems. Well here's a little more.
We have one, formerly owned an S2000 and now have a 911 as a third car. Three years ago, my 7 year old, who was 4 at the time, would shift the S2000 from the passenger seat while I drove it. Never more than about 5-10 mph and only the 1-2, 2-1 shift, but it obviously stuck with her.
Last night, after we drove home for dinner, she asked if just she could try out the 911. She did fine, but her comment was that the S2000 was "smoother" and easier to shift. Ouch!
The S2000 rates as one of the best 6-speed gearboxes at any price. The TL 6-speed is not that far behind. The clutch is a bit spongy, but that makes it easier for some to master. But the short throw 6-speed is even crisper than a 330i, which is saying a lot.
As for the brakes being grabby, the Brembos are exceptionally good, once you get used to them.
But carsdirect has em at less than $25k in my area code.30153 That's a deal for what you get. If you can be able to get a sedan for that price by mid next year, that'll be a tough ride to beat.
you think a decade ago they would have been discounting a model that's only been at dealers for a few weeks? Even if it is a Hyundai?
Deep discounts on Accords is certainly new though. I got an internet quote of $20,100 for an '05 Accord EX automatic with leather. That has to be close to 20% off the sticker doesn't it?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
At least thats what they thought with the ridgeline...........
Now with the accord sales slipping. Maybe a employee pricing deal soon?
Oh, wait a sec, didn't they already call that the Ridgeline?
VERY,VERY FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the low sales of the chevy avalanche before they started the ridge.
They must be making money on them.........or expect to only shooting to
build 50k of them. Time will tell................. :confuse:
At least it is a new market niche for Honda, so it isn't quite as likely that they are stealing sales frm themselves.
The baja really was a different animal, in size and purpose. The Avalanche was the same concept, but a whole lot bigger.
The new Civic you should be able to know eal quick if it is a hit or miss. Something like the ridgeline needs a while (at least a year) to get established enough to tell if it is a flop or not.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
next, how about a micro-van to compete with the Mazda 5? Honda certainly has the 4 cyl. engines to make this work, and already has this type of vehicle in Europe and japan. Just adapt it for the US. Shouldn't be a huge investment, kinda like when they created the Element out of the CRV.
There are still a lot of folks that miss the old civic space wagon, and even the original Odyssey. I've seen quite a few of them latching onto the Mazda as the spiritual successor to the old Hondas.
Again, probably won't steal many current buyers, although maybe it will take a few Ody people or CRV/ELement ones.
At least it is trying something new/creative, something which used to be a Honda trait, before they became overly conservative.
That, and get some new stylists. Hire someone from Peugeut or Renault if they have to.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
What are the mainstream models running, 5 year change cycles now? Still competitive with the rest of the industry 9and better than many).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Honda saw the shift towards trucks, more than half the market is trucks now. Prelude was doing such tiny volumes I'm sure the Ridgeline would have a better shot.
Baja was a flop for a lot of reasons - small size being a biggie, and that's a problem the Ridgeline doesn't have.
-juice
Which ones do you think would work here?
Honda Japan Line-Up
(if you pass your cursor over the car's pictures, the link shows the car's English name - you can actually navigate through most of the site this way)
Other than the Fit/Jazz, I think the Stream would work here. Its three rows of two probably work better than the Edix's two rows of three (FR-V in Europe). I also like the Airwave, a small, 1.5L-engined wagon.
The Step Wagon is the most interesting on the inside, but as usual for Honda of late, the exterior ruins the experience.
And I wish our Odyssey looked like theirs.
HR-V would be a conventional compact SUV and would not overlap with any current offering. Honda would then have conventional SUVs in size small/medium/large (ish).
In fact I think the HR-V would sell better than the Fit/Jazz. The Fit would probably help the Civic, since the Civic would no longer be seen as entry level, but Americans will buy very few of them even at low prices.
Stream could come in and compete with the Mazda5. I bet Honda is watching to see how the 5 sells, because in the past many have tried and failed.
So my pick is the HR-V.
-juice
Honda's problem is not its models are not renewed often enough. Exhibit A: current Camry and Altima are both older than Accord, but their sales are not sliding like Accord.
Would be very interesting to know what Honda thinks is wrong with Accord and Civic's sales!
Silly Honda! When will they learn you can't build a truck off a van platform. I bet they're kicking themselves over those two fiascos.
...or not.
Even the more rabid Honda-philes will admit that the HR-V is not up to spec. Honda will release non-US style vehicles like the Air Stream and US fans will go gaga. But nobody wants the HR-V. It handles poorly, accelerates slowly, and doesn't have any cargo space. There's almost nothing to like about it. Perhaps the next generation HR-V, if they decide to continue with it.
Size would be OK, look how tiny the Ford EcoSport is in comparison, and it's the best selling Ute in Brazil.
Think of it this way - it would be for empty nesters and young singles with no kids.
-juice
http://www.parque4x4.com.ar/equipamiento/ecosport/
It's based on the diminuitive Fiesta platform, 1.0l-2.0l engine sizes. The cargo space it smaller than what's behind the Pilot's 3rd row, you can barely fit a pair of grocery bags, yet it's trendy and popular.
HR-V seems quite a bit bigger. It could use some more SUV-ish styling but check out the inside:
http://www.honda.co.jp/HR-V/seatarrangement/seatarrangement.html
Doesn't seem too bad. 1.6l engine it seems, it could sell here with a 2.0l or so.
I just think it would stand a better chance than a Fit.
-juice
Microvans are a dubious proposition, I think. Let's see if Mazda sells any. Now a small cute ute to slot below CRV and go head to head with RAV might be just the ticket.
Of all the individual models carlisimo linked, the only one I really like the looks of is the Edix/FR-V. I have always disliked the Stream; the Fit is OK, I think it will sell as a funky-style Japanese car. The Airwave might sell like that too, in the same vein that xB has sold on its funky JDM looks.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I would expect the upcoming Civic to be way ahead of the current in terms o features and refinement. Just as the 03 Accord DX was fairly well-equipped compared to the 98-02. And it's even more so now that side curtain airbags are standard equipment.
But keep in mind the xB is the hot selling Scion, about 2 to 1 over the xA, which is seen as too small for most Americans.
-juice
Anyone else heard about that? It would certainly boost the Accord's image, especially with positive press that would have a halo effect on other models.
Might hurt some Acuras, though.
-juice
Fit will also compete with the Spectra5 and Rio5, Elantra 5-door, perhaps Mazda3 hatch, might even steal a few Matrix/Vibe buyers. It is getting to be a busy segment when you think about it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Fit is smaller than most of those. It's a B class car, most of those are C.
Space efficiency is very good, though. Plus the rear seat base folds up, like on some pickups, so you can load tall stuff. Pretty versatile little car. I just think US tastes won't take a liking to it.
-juice
'07 RDX
'06 Pilot
Bob
The RDX is too heavily disguised to tell anything!
Bob
It looks like the Pilot stays the same size but gets a Ridgeline front face. I wonder if the tail lights are clear too a la Ridgeline and MDX?
The RDX looks like it is shaping up and judging from relative size, may actually have a larger back seat than the Pilot (just a guess).
I wonder how Priddy determined that this was the RDX and not the CR-V?
It also looks bigger. Not big enough to be the MDX, but slightly bigger than I was expecting. I wonder if it isn't a next gen CR-V.
I'm surprised the Pilot isn't getting bigger changes? Maybe this is a refresh and the MDX will get the new platform, the new Pilot in 2 years or so?
-juice
This is the MMC for the Pilot. Just a refresh. The MDX gets the update next year. Typically, models built on such similar platforms are only separated by a single year. Makes me wonder if the Pilot's final year will be a short one.
TOV is reporting that the turbo may be back on track for the RDX. Apparently, the NVH and reliability issues have been worked out.
I prefer the current Pilot's styling over the Ridgeline, so I hope folks are wrong about that.
-juice
Kinda like those T-shirts that have a tuxedo painted on the front.
Juice - I don't think the Pilot is getting the full Ridgeline treatment. It's just getting lights and maybe a bumper which have an edgier quality like the Ridge.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We have one, formerly owned an S2000 and now have a 911 as a third car. Three years ago, my 7 year old, who was 4 at the time, would shift the S2000 from the passenger seat while I drove it. Never more than about 5-10 mph and only the 1-2, 2-1 shift, but it obviously stuck with her.
Last night, after we drove home for dinner, she asked if just she could try out the 911. She did fine, but her comment was that the S2000 was "smoother" and easier to shift. Ouch!
The S2000 rates as one of the best 6-speed gearboxes at any price. The TL 6-speed is not that far behind. The clutch is a bit spongy, but that makes it easier for some to master. But the short throw 6-speed is even crisper than a 330i, which is saying a lot.
As for the brakes being grabby, the Brembos are exceptionally good, once you get used to them.
Give the 6-speed a shot.
Accord and Civic sales are down in the USA... I guess they are making up for that with the Pilot, Odyssey, etc....?
-juice
Here is a flip-flop, Brown's dealer in my area are discounting Accords heavily, while their '06 Sonatas are at full MSRP, at least for now.
It's new, sure, but a decade ago it still would have been the opposite.
-juice
Deep discounts on Accords is certainly new though. I got an internet quote of $20,100 for an '05 Accord EX automatic with leather. That has to be close to 20% off the sticker doesn't it?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-juice