Employees of Honda Scooter and Motorcylcle of India really have a lot to do with this forum. They were angry because 54 people were dismissed or suspended. After reading the article it's not hard to imagine why.
well, AWD is cheaper for Acura, which can just add it to the FWD models, than it would be to engineer a whole new RWD platform.
The "gots to have RWD" thing is purely my opinion, based on my experience in all three types of cars. RWD is the most "hang out your rear end" fun among the three. FWD is the worst. I have bought my last FWD car, so Acura better get with the program if it wants to keep me as a customer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How much good would RWD be without the V8? I think they've got their priorities straight with this one. The engine (which can fit many cars) should come before the RWD platform (which can only support a limited # of cars).
But I agree they will need a RWD mid-to-large car platform sometime in the next ten years. That is assuming cars don't end up with in-wheel motors at all four corners sometime within the next decade.
Oh believe me, it's just one opinion but it could be PLENTY good. As a matter of fact I have my eye on the new IS250/350 as a possible candidate for the next car I buy new, maybe two or three years out. It will have to have a manual so the 350 is out for now, but both are V-6s that should be tons of fun, I think.
In fact, all the major premium brands have RWD V-6 models, usually two or more. I don't think there is a particular order that "should" be followed in getting both RWD and V-8s into Honda's lineup, but the engine is very likely the quicker of the two to be able to complete and get out there.
I have driven the TL on several occasions now, and for $30-32K, it definitely does not float my boat. It's way too easy to overdrive the steering wheels with all that power. And traction control to individually BRAKE the wheels I am overdriving is not what I had in mind for a fix here...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
All they have to do is use a RWD-biased AWD, as is in the new RL with its SH-AWD, which also shifts power to the outside rear wheel when going around corners. I will take that SH-AWD any day of the week over RWD.
Every drivetrain (FWD, RWD, AWD) have their advantages and disadvantages. For me, AWD offers the best compromise of those three. If "hanging the rear end out" is your number one priority, then by all means get RWD, but then again I've never heard any EVO or STi owner ever complaining about having AWD.
of course, rally drivers drive exclusively on broken, non-paved surfaces, while the rest of us regular folks enjoying our cars mostly stick to pavement. So your point is...?
juice: and of course, how long can it possibly be before the TL gets AWD? I mean, no time at all, I think. And if the choice is a $40K AWD TL or an RL with 30 more hp for TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE, it will be the TL for 98% of the buyers, I think. But a V-8 in the RL would change all of that.
At 304 hp, the new IS350, Lexus' ENTRY LEVEL model, will now have more power than the RL, Acura's TOP OF THE LINE model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
so when the TL gets SH-AWD in a couple of years, you think it will still seem like a good deal to lots of folks to go the extra ten grand (or more) for the RL? The RL is a pretty porky little sucker.
bob: "Talk to any AWD performace car owner, and see if they wish they had RWD. Not likely."
No of course not. They PICKED AWD in a market containing a good many excellent RWD choices (at least, above $30K). Wouldn't be my choice though, even though I like AWD overall. Certainly beats FWD.
It looks like BMW will really bring its 2-series 3-door here in a while - RWD, priced around $25K, with the 3L from the 325i. The RWD competition WILL heat up. In the meantime, I was pleased to see the FWD RSX win C&D's cheap speed comparo this year (published this month), but it wasn't far ahead of the second place WRX, which lost out mainly because of the Sube's extended-length turbo lag, and the excellent stick shift in the Acura. As DI and other improvements erase turbo lag in the years to come, AWDers like the WRX will edge out the FWDers, and I am curious to see if there will be any comparably priced RWDers to prevent them from attaining first place. If RWDers can make it into the price range, I think they will edge out the AWDers for the win.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Each drive wheel configuration has multiple tradeoffs, so it really comes down to preference. I personally would love to see the Acura Division embrace RWD architecture, as Infiniti did, because I think Honda has the engineering talent required to design the best 3 and 5-Series competitors on the planet. Honda could continue with FWD and FWD derived AWDs, while Acura converts to RWD and RWD derived AWDs. That would eliminate the torque steer issue on two wheel drive models, and give Acuras the ~50% front/50% rear weight distribution that's desirable, if not optimal, for spirited and aggressive driving.
All in favor raise your hands, and if we get enough votes we can make our feelings known to Acura. Whaddayasay?
Whether or not Honda introduces an eight cylinder engine is a separate issue, but, as we all know, the attributes of RWD, and the deficiencies of FWD, are only accentuated with added power and weight. Sure, Acura vehicles could get away with retaining FWD and FWD derived AWD architecture. Eight cylinder power could be applied to their AWD system, and that might satisfy a lot of people. However, if Acura is looking to be the best in the luxury-sport arena, it's bucking a head wind unless it follows the Nissan/Infiniti model.
"Okay, tell that to a Mini owner, or a TSX owner, or an RSX owner."
What, you mean like myself? Have had my RSX a couple of years. It is a hoot, but it has limitations that make themselves known frequently. If there had been a rear-driver under $25K with real sport dialed in that I could have bought instead, you can bet that would have been first choice. Instead, my choices seem to have been the godawful C230 "sport coupe" or the very nice 3-series coupe, a very nice car that sells for thousands more than that. Or I could have got into a base model IS300, but I never got much into that model - a bit weird in many respects, and I don't like sedans very much. Plus, it had awful gas mileage. That left the G35, which still had the sucko interior back when I bought and is a bit big for my tastes anyway. So I saved some money and bought an RSX instead, in the hopes that some more attractive rear drivers would be coming down the pipe in a couple of years, and whaddya know? It is a couple of years later, and they are! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Is it necessarily a 3 series if it's RWD? The inline 6 was just an idea, they could use an existing inline 4 architecture and add 2 cylinders. I think Honda could make an incredible inline 6 considering the inline 4s they've made. Or, they could use an existing V6.
I'd prefer something RWD, not AWD, but that's just me.
For the second time in many years we agree. I too would love to see a RWD Honda coupe or sedan that I can fit. The S2000 is a joke to me and my 6'6' frame. Although I would prefer AWD, anything with 200hp, a stick, around $25,000 and something other than FWD from Honda would be great.
Speaking of Infiniti though. This "event" they are having with $399 sign and drive G35's has me curious. I'm going to the Infiniti dealer in a few minutes.
When the TL gets AWD I think the RL should get a V8 option, at about the same time, would be ideal..
Did you notice CR's rating for the TL is actually higher than for the RL? Not that they are the authority on luxury cars, but still.
RWD alone isn't enough to take on BMW. Read some Lexus GS reviews, it's not even close.
Any how.
What affordable RWD cars are out there? IS is over $30 grand, almost all of them are. Mustang and Charger aren't refined enough for a lot of folks. Miata and Solistice are too small.
I think there is pent-up demand, problem is who will fill the gap? 1 series is uunfortunate looking, and with options that'll be over $30k. You know how BMW prices their cars:
base 1 series: just $24,999! Freight: $1100 Metallic paint: $1000 Sport Package: $2500 Moonroof: $1200
Real Price: $30,799. Without HIDs or NAV.
and so on. It'll end up being a $30k car. Look at the Audi A3.
The real problem is it's hard to appeal to the enthusiast segment, because we want it all. Performance, luxury, all the cool options (NAV, Moonroof, HIDs, etc). Price gets pushed up so volumes are very small.
RWD alone isn't enough to take on BMW. Read some Lexus GS reviews, it's not even close.
IMO, Honda seems to be a more likely company to take on BMW than Toyota. Generally Hondas have more "character" and seem to be more BMW-like and sporty than Toyotas, although some might say Honda is starting to become more Toyota-like.
Acura, maybe, but I'd actually vote Infiniti. The G35 and FX45 for instance are very competitive. I think Infiniti has done the best job so far taking them on.
I was replying to comment about the Lexus GS being "not even close" to BMWs according to reviews.
Honda/Acura could make a better BMW fighter than Toyota/Lexus IMO if they were to try. Infiniti and Lexus have already made serious attempts to take on BMW, Acura hasn't.
Well, actually I did, even though it broke my cardinal rule of "no more FWD". My local dealer has multiple examples of base models with stick shifts and the sky view thingy for about $27,5 sticker, for which they are quoting me $26K over the internet.
The A3 is a very nice car - I was tempted. It CAN be done under $30K, and the 2-series 3-door looks like the car to do it. They are tentatively saying "$20-24K" for that model which I am sure means $25K minimum sticker, but that would be OK for a 200 hp RWD hatch. Or else high $20Ks will buy a base IS250 with a stick a year from now.
Infiniti makes hard-charging RWDers with tacky interiors that wear quickly. That is their forte, and the G35 is a prime example. Great for sport, but not great in other ways. At $25K+, the one thing buyers do NOT want is for the car to feel tacky. Lexus makes...well, Lexi. Usually too soft, in the case of the current IS perhaps a little too hard, not balanced enough. Balance is the sweet spot BMW hits.
Honda needs to make an honest try at knocking BMW off its throne. I agree that of Toy/Hon/Nis, Honda is the one best qualified to get it right. But they will have to spend big bucks on some engineering, something their complacency of late seems to be preventing.
And oooooohhhhh boy! That hypothetical TSX above with the V-6 and RWD? Oh yeah, count me first in line! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't know if it'd be possible, but a stretched and widened S2000 chassis could maybe work for a small RWD sedan.
If they used the existing I4 architecture from the S2000 and added 2 cylinders, it'd be a 3.3L I6. If you use the I4's hp/liter, the I6 could make roughly 360 hp. I know there are friction differences between the I6 and I4, so the hp number is just an estimate, but it does show that it would be a piece of cake for Honda to match the M3 I6's output. It may not make short-term financial sense for Honda to do something like that, but I'd like to see them try.
Thing about the S2000 engine is it's heavy for its displacement. An I-6 based on that would be both long (packaging) and heavy.
I didn't know the S2000 engine was heavy. It has loads of heavy-duty components, so that's not really surprising. They could base an I6 off of a different, less high strung version of the K-series.
As far as being long, all I6s are relatively long. Without knowing the dimensions of the S2000 engine, we really don't know how long a hypothetical I6 based on it would be. It doesn't really matter though because it's unlikely that Honda would bother with an I6. Their current V6 is more packageable in various vehicle configurations. An I6 wouldn't be as useful to Honda throughout their model line as the I6 is for BMW. BMW uses their I6 in many of their models, but unlike Honda, all of their models use a RWD chassis, so the I6 makes sense.
An I5? Sure, why not. GM has an I4, I5, and I6 all in the same engine family, I don't see why Honda couldn't.
Honda offered an I-5 in the 1990s; the Acura Vigor was an I-5 exclusively, and the Vigor's replacement, the '96-'98 TL, was offered in both I-5 and V6 versions. I read that the I-5 was derived by taking one bank of Honda's excellent V10 racing engine (not currently offered), and that the I-5 was held in high regard by many Hondaphiles.
I don't think the I5 was half of a racing V10. That would have been a 5 liter engine and I don't recall Honda ever racing something that big. Even if the cylinders were bored and stroked, I can't imagine Honda leaving that much metal in a racing block.
It's monospec save for the NAV and tranny while the 3 series has all kinds of body styles and a couple of engines. I'd say Acura is doing a pretty good job for a sedan only model.
Yeah it's selling well. Would it sell worse if it were RWD or AWD like the G35 and 3 series? Probably not. Would car magazines and enthusiasts like it better if it were RWD or AWD? Yes.
I consider the TL to be perhaps the best example of a FWD sport sedan; its dynamics are as good as it gets for a FWD car with that much power.
Someone mentioned priorities in an earlier post, which is important for this discussion. As family oriented vehicles, stressing value, space utilization, fuel economy, etc., FWD is the best configuration for Honda. But while these are also important considerations for the sport/luxury division, performance, handling, and driving dynamics are relatively more important for Acura than for Honda. The laws of physics dictate that RWD and RWD derived AWD is required to optimize these.
The fact that the TL is outselling the 3-Series YTD is impressive, but these numbers reflect the fact that BMW has been phasing out the previous generation 3, while the current generation TL is in its second year. Also, the price differential favors the TL. It will be interesting to see whether the TL finishes ahead of the 3 for the entire calendar year, and next year, when the 3 will have the age advantage.
The TL and 3 are both outstanding cars. No one should drive any worse. I'd be very happy with either, but given a choice I'd take the 3.
Back in 2000, i went from my humble little CRXsi to my first 3 series and thought that the dynamics were very similar even though the comparison was a FWD and RWD. The Crx i would push to the limit while the BMW was just starting to take off where the CRX left off. They are both great cars and event though i've read that infiniti (*nissan) would like to be the japanese BMW (Lexus being the Japanese Mercedes), I also believe that the Honda cars seem to be closer in the BMW feel (granted Nissan's have been imitating BMW's for years) Sentra SE-r was essentially a bmw2002 in E30-like clothing (compare the shapes of the windows) I recently rescued a US spec CRX here in Europe and can happily report that a 1992Si in 2005 still runs with the best of them on the autobahn..now that's really saying something about Honda
Here's an interesting photo of a couple of Ford engines side-by-side, notice how much bigger the DOHC engine is.
Honda will need to package the engine cleverly for it to fit under its comparitively small hoods. This is why other manufacturer's have kept OHV engines around - they can get large displacement engines to fit in engine bays.
RL is gonna need a taller hood. Ridgeline should be OK.
Comments
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102936
Bob
Gots to get RWD for Acura eventually too....but on that score, it appears they will duck out and go the cheaper route of AWD.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well I couldn't disagree more... And how do you figure AWD is cheaper than RWD?
Bob
The "gots to have RWD" thing is purely my opinion, based on my experience in all three types of cars. RWD is the most "hang out your rear end" fun among the three. FWD is the worst. I have bought my last FWD car, so Acura better get with the program if it wants to keep me as a customer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But I agree they will need a RWD mid-to-large car platform sometime in the next ten years. That is assuming cars don't end up with in-wheel motors at all four corners sometime within the next decade.
Oh believe me, it's just one opinion but it could be PLENTY good. As a matter of fact I have my eye on the new IS250/350 as a possible candidate for the next car I buy new, maybe two or three years out. It will have to have a manual so the 350 is out for now, but both are V-6s that should be tons of fun, I think.
In fact, all the major premium brands have RWD V-6 models, usually two or more. I don't think there is a particular order that "should" be followed in getting both RWD and V-8s into Honda's lineup, but the engine is very likely the quicker of the two to be able to complete and get out there.
I have driven the TL on several occasions now, and for $30-32K, it definitely does not float my boat. It's way too easy to overdrive the steering wheels with all that power. And traction control to individually BRAKE the wheels I am overdriving is not what I had in mind for a fix here...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bob
Most competitors limit AWD to the V6 models, so the RL would actually have something unique if it offered AWD plus the V8.
-juice
Bob
-juice
Bob
juice: and of course, how long can it possibly be before the TL gets AWD? I mean, no time at all, I think. And if the choice is a $40K AWD TL or an RL with 30 more hp for TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE, it will be the TL for 98% of the buyers, I think. But a V-8 in the RL would change all of that.
At 304 hp, the new IS350, Lexus' ENTRY LEVEL model, will now have more power than the RL, Acura's TOP OF THE LINE model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Talk to any AWD performace car owner, and see if they wish they had RWD. Not likely.
Bob
The IS350 comparison isn't really fair because their entry level model is actually the IS250, which has less power than a lot of basic cars. So what?
BMW got by for ages with 184hp. In fact they led the segment.
-juice
bob: "Talk to any AWD performace car owner, and see if they wish they had RWD. Not likely."
No of course not. They PICKED AWD in a market containing a good many excellent RWD choices (at least, above $30K). Wouldn't be my choice though, even though I like AWD overall. Certainly beats FWD.
It looks like BMW will really bring its 2-series 3-door here in a while - RWD, priced around $25K, with the 3L from the 325i. The RWD competition WILL heat up. In the meantime, I was pleased to see the FWD RSX win C&D's cheap speed comparo this year (published this month), but it wasn't far ahead of the second place WRX, which lost out mainly because of the Sube's extended-length turbo lag, and the excellent stick shift in the Acura. As DI and other improvements erase turbo lag in the years to come, AWDers like the WRX will edge out the FWDers, and I am curious to see if there will be any comparably priced RWDers to prevent them from attaining first place. If RWDers can make it into the price range, I think they will edge out the AWDers for the win.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Okay, tell that to a Mini owner, or a TSX owner, or an RSX owner.
Point is you can get excellent handling out of almost any drivetrain, if it's engineered properly.
Bob
All in favor raise your hands, and if we get enough votes we can make our feelings known to Acura. Whaddayasay?
Whether or not Honda introduces an eight cylinder engine is a separate issue, but, as we all know, the attributes of RWD, and the deficiencies of FWD, are only accentuated with added power and weight. Sure, Acura vehicles could get away with retaining FWD and FWD derived AWD architecture. Eight cylinder power could be applied to their AWD system, and that might satisfy a lot of people. However, if Acura is looking to be the best in the luxury-sport arena, it's bucking a head wind unless it follows the Nissan/Infiniti model.
It's only now that they're making larger cars that they don't need that space advantage anymore, but the mentality will take a while to drop.
What, you mean like myself? Have had my RSX a couple of years. It is a hoot, but it has limitations that make themselves known frequently. If there had been a rear-driver under $25K with real sport dialed in that I could have bought instead, you can bet that would have been first choice. Instead, my choices seem to have been the godawful C230 "sport coupe" or the very nice 3-series coupe, a very nice car that sells for thousands more than that. Or I could have got into a base model IS300, but I never got much into that model - a bit weird in many respects, and I don't like sedans very much. Plus, it had awful gas mileage. That left the G35, which still had the sucko interior back when I bought and is a bit big for my tastes anyway. So I saved some money and bought an RSX instead, in the hopes that some more attractive rear drivers would be coming down the pipe in a couple of years, and whaddya know? It is a couple of years later, and they are! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You can't engineer away handling traits that are inherent to FWD cars.
"All in favor raise your hands, and if we get enough votes we can make our feelings known to Acura. Whaddayasay?"
My hand is raised. I was talking about Acura taking on BMW a while back right here in this thread.
Can you imagine a RWD TSX with a screaming Honda inline 6?
No.
Bob
I'd prefer something RWD, not AWD, but that's just me.
Speaking of Infiniti though. This "event" they are having with $399 sign and drive G35's has me curious. I'm going to the Infiniti dealer in a few minutes.
Did you notice CR's rating for the TL is actually higher than for the RL? Not that they are the authority on luxury cars, but still.
RWD alone isn't enough to take on BMW. Read some Lexus GS reviews, it's not even close.
Any how.
What affordable RWD cars are out there? IS is over $30 grand, almost all of them are. Mustang and Charger aren't refined enough for a lot of folks. Miata and Solistice are too small.
I think there is pent-up demand, problem is who will fill the gap? 1 series is uunfortunate looking, and with options that'll be over $30k. You know how BMW prices their cars:
base 1 series: just $24,999!
Freight: $1100
Metallic paint: $1000
Sport Package: $2500
Moonroof: $1200
Real Price: $30,799. Without HIDs or NAV.
and so on. It'll end up being a $30k car. Look at the Audi A3.
The real problem is it's hard to appeal to the enthusiast segment, because we want it all. Performance, luxury, all the cool options (NAV, Moonroof, HIDs, etc). Price gets pushed up so volumes are very small.
-juice
IMO, Honda seems to be a more likely company to take on BMW than Toyota. Generally Hondas have more "character" and seem to be more BMW-like and sporty than Toyotas, although some might say Honda is starting to become more Toyota-like.
-juice
Honda/Acura could make a better BMW fighter than Toyota/Lexus IMO if they were to try. Infiniti and Lexus have already made serious attempts to take on BMW, Acura hasn't.
It does seem like the S2000 platform could be used for something else.
-juice
Well, actually I did, even though it broke my cardinal rule of "no more FWD". My local dealer has multiple examples of base models with stick shifts and the sky view thingy for about $27,5 sticker, for which they are quoting me $26K over the internet.
The A3 is a very nice car - I was tempted. It CAN be done under $30K, and the 2-series 3-door looks like the car to do it. They are tentatively saying "$20-24K" for that model which I am sure means $25K minimum sticker, but that would be OK for a 200 hp RWD hatch. Or else high $20Ks will buy a base IS250 with a stick a year from now.
Infiniti makes hard-charging RWDers with tacky interiors that wear quickly. That is their forte, and the G35 is a prime example. Great for sport, but not great in other ways. At $25K+, the one thing buyers do NOT want is for the car to feel tacky. Lexus makes...well, Lexi. Usually too soft, in the case of the current IS perhaps a little too hard, not balanced enough. Balance is the sweet spot BMW hits.
Honda needs to make an honest try at knocking BMW off its throne. I agree that of Toy/Hon/Nis, Honda is the one best qualified to get it right. But they will have to spend big bucks on some engineering, something their complacency of late seems to be preventing.
And oooooohhhhh boy! That hypothetical TSX above with the V-6 and RWD? Oh yeah, count me first in line! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If they used the existing I4 architecture from the S2000 and added 2 cylinders, it'd be a 3.3L I6. If you use the I4's hp/liter, the I6 could make roughly 360 hp. I know there are friction differences between the I6 and I4, so the hp number is just an estimate, but it does show that it would be a piece of cake for Honda to match the M3 I6's output. It may not make short-term financial sense for Honda to do something like that, but I'd like to see them try.
I say as long as we're being hypothetical, lets make it an inline 6 based on one of Honda's inline 4s.
G35 interior has improved, though I haven't seen one lately.
What about an in-line 5?
Thing about the S2000 engine is it's heavy for its displacment. An I-6 based on that would be both long (packaging) and heavy.
-juice
I didn't know the S2000 engine was heavy. It has loads of heavy-duty components, so that's not really surprising. They could base an I6 off of a different, less high strung version of the K-series.
As far as being long, all I6s are relatively long. Without knowing the dimensions of the S2000 engine, we really don't know how long a hypothetical I6 based on it would be. It doesn't really matter though because it's unlikely that Honda would bother with an I6. Their current V6 is more packageable in various vehicle configurations. An I6 wouldn't be as useful to Honda throughout their model line as the I6 is for BMW. BMW uses their I6 in many of their models, but unlike Honda, all of their models use a RWD chassis, so the I6 makes sense.
An I5? Sure, why not. GM has an I4, I5, and I6 all in the same engine family, I don't see why Honda couldn't.
TL (FWD) - 38,388 units
3 Series (RWD) - 34,981
CTS (RWD) - 33,108
ES330 (FWD) - 32,448
Deville (FWD) - 30,211
Seems to me BMW is already taking some heat from the boys at Acura. And it looks like FWD (nevermind AWD) does okay in terms of sales pace.
For what it's worth, I'd guess that the average TL sells for quite a bit less than the average 3 series.
The CTS numbers are surprising, I didn't know they doing that good.
$36,300 will buy you a lot of TL.
Anyway, this is how edmunds sums up the 3 series:
Pros: Still the standard when it comes to perfectly sorted vehicle dynamics, high-quality interior materials and outstanding handling.
Cons: Still costs more than most of its competitors, lacking in interior storage space.
What Edmunds.com says: Improving upon the ultimate driving machine benchmark, this is unequivocally the best car in the entry-luxury category.
"Perfectly sorted vehicle dynamics" is impossible with FWD.
Someone mentioned priorities in an earlier post, which is important for this discussion. As family oriented vehicles, stressing value, space utilization, fuel economy, etc., FWD is the best configuration for Honda. But while these are also important considerations for the sport/luxury division, performance, handling, and driving dynamics are relatively more important for Acura than for Honda. The laws of physics dictate that RWD and RWD derived AWD is required to optimize these.
The fact that the TL is outselling the 3-Series YTD is impressive, but these numbers reflect the fact that BMW has been phasing out the previous generation 3, while the current generation TL is in its second year. Also, the price differential favors the TL. It will be interesting to see whether the TL finishes ahead of the 3 for the entire calendar year, and next year, when the 3 will have the age advantage.
The TL and 3 are both outstanding cars. No one should drive any worse. I'd be very happy with either, but given a choice I'd take the 3.
Honda will need to package the engine cleverly for it to fit under its comparitively small hoods. This is why other manufacturer's have kept OHV engines around - they can get large displacement engines to fit in engine bays.
RL is gonna need a taller hood. Ridgeline should be OK.
-juice
Bob
But peek under the RL's hood, packaging is already tight. Squeezing in a V8 will be difficult.
You might recall that when the Accord first got a V6 engine they had to fit a new hood that was taller.
-juice