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Has Honda's run - run out?
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2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It's definitely not a perfect science. But the fact that I found similar results with each and every model I was able to check is kinda telling.
It was 2001 Civic HB that got high marks from Euro NCAP in terms of pedestrian safety and became the best ever to achieve 3/5 rating. Here is a link to NCAP’s Official Press Release on the same.
It would be interesting to note that Honda has been slowly but surely pushing pedestrian safety in its US market PR (began with the new Odyssey).
nippononly
Using DI could help improve a little more, but 1000 lb and poorer aerodynamics and greater power train loss is still going to account for a few mpg off. As far as EPA rating is concerned, click here to go to a webpage trying to justify real world to rating discrepancy. Here is the excerpt of interest:
“No laboratory test can simulate all driving conditions and driving styles. Trip length, traffic conditions, terrain, temperature, and weather all affect fuel economy. In addition, fast acceleration and heavy braking, driving at high speeds, carrying extra weight, using cargo racks, using electrical accessories, and using 4-wheel drive reduce fuel economy.”
An inference to be derived is that if 4-wheel drive were already “tested”, it shouldn’t result in poorer fuel economy.
As for permanent versus full time AWD systems, weight difference is primarily due to how they are designed / engineered. Honda’s VTM-4 is a full time AWD system but SH-AWD is a permanent AWD system, and the latter is said to have been derived off the former. Being electro-mechanical systems, however, they are lighter than most other hydraulics/all-mechanical systems.
I wonder if they mean using four-wheel drive, as in, engaging the shift level below the dash. Not so much AWD, but the old-fashion lock the hubs kind of thing. It would make sense if they tested selectable 4WD vehicles in 2WD mode only, rather than both modes.
In case of SH-AWD (a permanent system), this may not be an issue since all wheels are powered at all times. In case of VTM-4, however, all wheels are powered during startups/acceleration but not during cruising. And in both cases, amount of power transfer varies dynamically.
These variances only add to already complex set of scenarios that EPA is using to derive fuel economy estimates. So, they may be simply chopping off a percentage from whatever is achieved. In most cases, after all, the estimates are left to the automaker. EPA tests only a fraction of all vehicles (and only to confirm the claims).
To be honest I don't even recall if the ones on the floor were leather right now. I took 288 pics and must've caught that, though:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2132269877
New Avalon is in there, also. Nicely improved over the old one. Bigger engine, too.
Acura RDX looked pretty sharp. I'd like to see Honda/Acura challenge the Vue Redline, Forester XT, and BMW X3 in terms of small and sporty SUV, emphasis on sport.
RDX has SH-AWD I believe, and a V6. Though I read it will not be based on the CR-V as was rumored earlier.
In fact it looks much smaller than the CR-V in person, so I believe it.
-juice
It's powered by Mugen's Le Mans engine: 4.0L V8, 500+ps in street mode (590hp in its racing application). It's longitudinally placed so it can't use SH-AWD; it's RWD with a manual transmission.
Here's the link; if it's illegal hopefully the rest of this post can stay?
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=319284
I don't expect this concept to get anywhere, but I think it's writing on the wall for an eventual Honda V8.
I still liked it. Thumbs up.
-juice
Of course, that might just be a visual thing. There are a few styling elements that make the CR-V appear taller than it really is. Stuff like the integrated roof rails and vertical taillights bring the eye upward. The 19" rims and curved roofline on the RDX might counter that perceived height.
I'll dig up the pics I took...here's the album:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2132269877&- ;idx=1
Photos relevant to this thread:
50 - Ridgeline's door handle. Interior differs from Pilot substantially. Built for durability vs. appearance or feel.
51 - Ridgeline back seat folks up, but that leaves a track so the floor is not flat.
54 - Ridgeline interior shot
57 - RD-X concept. Maybe that thick D-pillar makes it seem shorter than it is. No door handles! I think they use a camera in place of a side view mirror.
Exhaust is integrated. Lights are LEDs. Overall look is sporty and aggressive.
58 - Ridgeline door swung open
59 - Ridgeline spare and storage well (HUGE!)
61 - front of RD-X looks nice but not as successfully styled as the rear IMO. Front has hints of BMW X3 in the lights.
Check out the glass sky roof also.
62 - Ridgeline tail gate does not meet up with the sides for some reason. A bit odd.
65 - Ridgeline rear seat. Middle position is too stiff for any long distances.
66 - Ridgeline bed extended
That's all I got.
-juice
The interior is another area when I'm under-whelmed. In this case I think the Tribeca is far better (different market segment, of course). I don't blame Honda for going with a traditional truckish design, but I would have thought they could give it something unique. Aside from the fold-up rear seats, there is little of that Honda magic in there.
It's not so much the styling of the Ridgeline, which seems kinda tacked on, accessorized rather than designed.
It's the design and utility of the bed. Impressive. The thing has crowds of people ogling it. You had to get in line to check it out up close.
Funny thing is the crowds congregated behind it, there were no lines to get inside.
I think they designed the Ridgeline interior to handle mud and dust, probably hands with gloves, so plastics are kind of hard, but that's OK for a pickup.
I just like how they beefed up the payload and towing.
This thing will easily meet sales forecasts, watch.
-juice
I'd prefer less chrome in the grille, but add a mesh grille in the front, and see the full design in person, and it's nice. Especially the interior, which makes the MDX look dated.
MDX is due for an update, and the Tribeca interior sorta looks like the TSX', only applied to an SUV.
Still, copy or no, give them credit for aiming ahead of the MDX, at the next generation, instead of the current one.
Check the Tribeca thread, a while back someone put links to the interior of the MDX, RX330, and Tribeca, and the Subaru is easily the best design.
-juice
Honda Pilot
Lexus RX330
Subaru Tribeca
Personally, I don't like Tribeca interior. It is trying to be too different (and may end up being dubbed as distracting and not user friendly).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
In the world of premium-branded cars, of course, I would think that the more conservative the interior the better (and the more upscale materials the better). Having been in the Toyota and Honda, I would have to rate the interior of the Pilot higher then the Tribeca, and the Toyota Highlander lower, but of course, the HL gets to be all-new later this year.
Haven't been in the RX330, but IMO it looks a little too much "boombox" for a car of this class.
As far as exteriors, the car world is beginning to converge too much. The Tribeca has many obvious overtones of the Nissan Murano/Infiniti FX in it. Have you seen the new M45? To me it looks just like the new RL from many angles. Even the lights are similar.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The MDX is due for an FMC and prototype spy photos have been posted. I expect they will keep sales of the current model strong by not releasing information until the last minute. I'm anticipating that the MDX will get an upgrade like the Ody. Not a radical change, just more of the same basic goodness.
“In the area of environmental leadership, Mr. Fukui announced plans to further advance and expand the use of Honda fuel-efficient technologies including its hybrid technology and Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) system. VCM will be applied to the 2006 Honda Pilot sport-utility vehicle scheduled to debut this fall.”
Pilot's is sort of blocky, nothing wrong with it but there's no design flair at all. I'll agree with varmint (is that OK? LOL) and say it's just too conservative.
Lexus has the right idea but it doesn't flow that well. The sides look tacked on. Boomboxy, sure.
VCM is brilliant, I bet they get Pilot up to class-leading mpg.
Has the new Ody with VCM had any teething issues? I'm bummed that you have to go all the way up to an EX with leather to get it.
Street prices around here are $28k, it doesn't make sense to spend that much more than a basic Sienna/Ody ($22-25k) to save a few bucks on gas.
-juice
VCM is good for about a 5% boost in fuel economy for the city driving cycle. On the highway, it has a greater impact (about 12 or 13%). So, I'm expecting about 18/24mpg for the VCM-equipped Pilot.
Not sure that will be class-leading for long. But it is pretty good for such a large vehicle.
Almost seems that VCM is great for the EPA test, but has much less impact to real world driving.
20-28 is pretty darned high target for a big beast like an Ody. Same will likely happen with the pilot.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
So the jury's still deliberating on VCM? I can afford to wait and see neeways.
Maybe later on Honda will put it on the Ody LX.
-juice
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think 23 mpg with a full load of family and gear with the A/C running and Finding Nemo in the DVD player is doing pretty durn good when you average above 75 mph over 600 miles including stops.
It's going to take a little time.
I think VCM just won't kick in if you drive like that!
-juice
VCM has been around for a while, but I'd still wait and see how it works on this particular engine.
I'm interested, though.
-juice
This idea was also used in the first motorcycle application of VTEC (2002 Interceptor). In that case, the 800 cc 90-degree V-4 DOHC VTEC engine operates in 2-valves/cylinder mode thru 7000 rpm and then switches over to 4-valve per cylinder mode from there on to about 14K rpm redline.
With VCM, the VTEC now applies the logic to shut down all valves (instead of two) in one bank of the Vee. In Cylinder Idling System (in Civic Hybrid), the VTEC is designed to just that but to shut down three of four cylinders during deceleration/braking.
It's going to take a little time.
Well, you don't HAVE to have active noise cancellation to have a VCM type sytem. And you don't need to "study" the engine harmonics to have noise cancellation eitheer. You just need a simple chip that will calculate the inverse frequencies on the fly. Just integrate a mic somewhere in the cabin to use as your source, and you're done. If you do it that way, you'll even cancel out road noise from your tires, etc.
-juice