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Hybrids in the News
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Comments
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2005/01/index.html
http://www.eere.energy.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/docs/gm_advanced_technology_rollout.ppt
And when you say GM ranks 1st in cars get 30MPG or better, isn't that kinda stretching facts?? I mean GM has like 10 versions of every car across different divisions. How many total MODELS do they have compared to Toyota? Of course on paper they will get that #1 ranking. Huh...let's see you got Saturn division, Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, GMC. What does Toyota have? Toyota, Lexus, & Scion.
Toyota: six '05models get 35 mpg or higher
VW: four '05 models get 35 mpg or higher
GM: zero '05 models 35 mpg or higher
I didn't look at DCX. I'd be surprised though if they had more than 6 models at 35 mpg or higher.
I'll explain this again to you. GM has more models(alot more) so of course they are going to have MORE MODELS that get over 30MPG. Can you not understand that? it's soo simple!
"If Toyota is going to topple number ONE GM they are going to have a battle on their hands. The American people are fickled. If they think some foreign country is about to make them look 2nd class they will quit buying Toyota's like you would not believe."
GM has been on a downward spiral for years and even with all the current bad news about GM, GM sales are going down while Toyota sales are going up in the U.S.
Toyota Prius reliability is in question throughout the media. If you want to do damage control, it needs to start with people bringing Prius problems to this board. You have a person ready to invoke the Lemon Law on their new Prius because the dealer cannot fix it after 6 visits. None of the Prius owners gave any helpful advice.
Let's stop with the over(way) exaggeration!
Does that outweigh the 30 Toyota models (Lexus & Scion not included) that get less than 25 MPG combined? I did not see a single Toyota vehicle that offers alternative fuel such as CNG, LPG or E85 in the Toyota lineup. When matching the Toyota Tundra 4WD to the Chevy Silverado 4WD the Chevy has a slightly larger V8 that gets better mileage and dumps almost 1 ton less GHG per year. In the 2WD version GM offers a hybrid that gets 11% better gas mileage than the Tundra 2WD and dumps 1.3 tons less GHG per year. The Chevy Suburban far outshines the Land Cruiser for mileage and GHG. I think if you did an honest assessment across the lines that GM does pretty good in a fuel economy comparison to Toyota.
If any of you have had bad experiences with GM reliability I can understand your dislike of the brand. I have had nothing but great experience with the last 4 Chevy vehicles I have owned. As a matter of fact I am thinking of taking advantage of the latest GM promo and buying a 3/4 ton Duramax PU truck. The prices have never been better. I was going to buy used. Everyone thinks their used truck is worth more than a new one.
PS
VW has 10 models that get over 35 MPG combined.
I could only find 4 Toyota models with a combined 35 MPG. None of the Camry's even get 35 MPG on the highway. So the Malibu beats the Camry on all models.
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News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
Here are my findings.
2004 model Prius Total complaints 149
2004 model Passat Total complaints 15
2005 model Prius Total complaints 42
2005 model Passat Total complaints 0
These are the facts whether they are popular or not the Prius is problematic in it's complexity. The worst part is Toyota is not getting the picture. There are 48 complaints of electrical problems, 29 were reported this year. That is long after the fixes went out in the middle of 2004.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/ComplaintSearch.cfm
Really? Which 30 TOyota models get less than 25MPG??? Toyota doesn't even sell 30 models in the U.S.!!!
Here is the breakdown for Chevy vs. Toyota. I used Chevy because they are the volume seller for GM and they a product lineup which most closely replicates Toyotas:
Chevy(EPA averages of city/highway numbers)
Aveo: 30MPG
Cobalt: 28MPG
Corvette: 22MPG
IMPALA: 25MPG
Malibu: 26.5MPG
Montel Carlo: 26.5MPG
SSR: 16.5MPG
Colorado: ~21.5MPG
Equinox: 22MPG
Tahoe: ~17MPG
Trailblazer: ~17.5MPG
Uplander: 21MPG
Avalanche: 16MPG
Suburban: ~17MPG
Silverado: ~17.5MPG
Toyota/Scion:
Camry 4-cyl: 29MPG
Camry V6: 28MPG
Avalon: 26.5MPG
Corolla: ~35MPG
Prius: 55.5MPG
Sienna: 22MPG
RAV4: 24.5MPG
Highlander 4-cyl.: 23.5MPG
Highlander 6: 21.5MPG
4Runner: 19MPG
Tacoma: 19MPG
Tundra: 16.5MPG
Sequioa: 16.5MPG
Land Cruiser: 15MPG
Xa: 34.5MPG
Xb: 33MPG
tc: 26MPG
Chevy has ONE model that reaches 30MPG in combined driving. Toyota/Scion has 4 that reach over 30MPG.
VW has 10 models??? VW doesn't even sell 10 models in the US!
Try to put a realistic spin on your pickup & SUV numbers. Toyota sold 395 Land Cruiser's last month, GM Sold almost 8,000 Suburbans last month. Same with pickups, Toyota sold 1/6th the number of pickups(10K tundras vs. 60K Silverados).
For example, according to fueleconomy.gov there are 3 models of Corolla. Only the manual transmission model gets 36 MPG. The automatic gets 33 MPG and the Sports model gets 29 MPG on Premium gas. There are 8 models of Camry sold and none get even 30 MPG combined. You are counting Camry as one model yet there are several versions that get from low 20s to high 20s mileage. If you are saying because GM sells close to a million PU trucks and Toyota's biggest sellers are Camry & Corolla. That means that GM has the potential to use more fuel & pollute more with those vehicles. If that is your point, then I agree. That is what the American public wants. I think gas will have to double for PU truck sales to drop significantly. I think Toyota is banking on PU sales getting even better.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
What on earth is all this nonsense about GM unreliability. How many members are still using stats from the 1970s/1980s? How many forum member have read the great results on GM models from JD Power/CR that exists today(not during yesteryears).
Personaly I'd like to see some news on when GM will offer more than just a mild hybrid on their cars. Take the Malibu V6 for example. With already good fuel economy on the ICE alone, what would happen if they add variable cylinder management ala the HAH and hybridize it? It might be a 50/40 kind of car for EPA numbers then.
My Honda Civic Hybrid with manual tran' is a fuel sipping demon. Looking at the Prius with CVT - and seeing what actual owners get - around 42 to 45 mpg - compared to my HCH which gets 46 to 52 mpg in real driving around Wash DC (worlds #2 worst traffic) - you get the picture - actual driving on real roads makes a huge difference. Most Chevy's mid-size - any model - are really averaging around 25mpg on a good week - eg half what I'm getting. Plus they are not all ULEV for emissions - so they are putting out up to three times the CO2, et al.
If GM products really were so marvellous we would not be importing 20M barrels of oil a day.
Go figure!
I certainly hope your last post is not addressed to me?
It appears it is ,but I really dont understand what you are saying? Do you have anything to say that has hybrid relevance??
I want to avoid a hybrid :confuse: Whoever said that??
Did I say VW reliability is better than Toyota/Honda??? Please refer to my last post!
A TSX?? Huhhh? :confuse:
I respect Gary's opinions! But you say I want to avoid hybrids because Gary says so :confuse:
Huhhhh?? :confuse:
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In private tests, the Skylark hybrid met the strictest emission standards, got 30 miles to a gallon of gas and had a top speed of 85 miles an hour.
The E.P.A. awarded $33,000 to Dr. Wouk and Dr. Rosen in 1974 and began its own tests of the prototype. However, the agency declined to produce more of the cars for nationwide tests, and Dr. Wouk's experiments ended. He always said the agency had never adequately explained its decision.
Dr. Victor Wouk, an electrical engineer and entrepreneur who built one of the first hybrid cars, operating on both gasoline and electricity, died at his home in Manhattan on May 19. He was 86.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/national/12wouk.html
Biography of Dr. Wouk;
http://oralhistories.library.caltech.edu/92/01/OH_Wouk_V.pdf
Anybody think GM's latest ad campaign is a bit of desperation? "Now You Too Can Get The EMPLOYEE Disc!! ....that'll save GM ....NOT!
Car sales always depends on keeping up with technology and the public's always changing needs and wants. Years ago, when I sold cars, gas milage was low on the criteria of customer's needs. Not so today. Nuff said.
Railroadjames(Prius- the closest thing to perfection)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-06-12-global-warming-cover_x.htm
I would agree with you to an extent. I sold my Suburban yesterday. The fellow came to check it out in a Hummer2. He is buying the Suburban for his "Lady" so her and the children do not have to ride around in that little "death Trap Honda Accord". I asked him what kind of mileage he gets in the H2. He laughed and said "not good about 10 MPG". He looked the car over, drove it up the street to a friends shop. Came back said it is perfect. Handed me $1000 to hold it till we can go to the bank today. Shook my hand and roared off in that black Hummer2. Not everyone is worried about gas mileage. I got $18k and the Chevy dealer offered me $11k in trade on a new truck.
PS
Read the last part of that long interview with Dr Wouk. Then you will know why the Japanese beat us to building hybrids.
Speaking of hybrids. If Toyota were to make the SAB standard in the Prius it would get a very good safety rating. SAB's are standard in the EU Prius, and got very high marks. Also they put rear disk brakes on the EU version. I guess they are more discriminating buyers.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_25/b3938028.htm
http://www.sustain-online.org/plugins/DocSearch/details.asp?MenuId=1&ClickMenu=&doOpen=1&t- ype=DocDet&ObjectId=MTUxNTk
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=40349&version=1&template- _id=48&parent_id=28
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=Business_News&subsection=market+- news&month=June2005&file=Business_News2005061305923.xml
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002878.html
My understanding of the NHTSA star ratings assigned to any one vehicle is that they are meant to give you a comparative rating of that specific vehicle against all vehicles tested within the same category (for example, all mid-size sedans). The ratings do not reflect how well a vehicle from one category will perform against a vehicle from another category. A small sedan of relatively small mass simply cannot compare favorably during an impact with a large truck/suv with a relatively large mass. An exaggerated example is to compare how a passenger in the worst-rated 18-wheeler would do in comparison to a passenger in the best-rated SUV if the two collided... If you wish to see quantitative crash results listing the crush/intrusion into the passenger compartment and the acceleration forces on the crash dummies, you can explore the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) ratings.
http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTestingMINICooperVsFordF150
The new Ford is built a little better, but it has been having reliability issues.
The good thing is that the hybrids seem to have good crash test results. I wasn't surprise about those results of the suburban vs the Honda Accord Hybrid. I'd rather be in that car in a crash than the suburban.
If you want lots of links to which is safer, here are 62020 posts. Many of which dealt with this subject.
starrow68, "I don't like SUVs, why do you?" #62001, 24 Nov 2004 5:00 pm
"Travel times for commuters are starting to break down. The lanes are simply getting too congested," said Joan Morris, spokeswoman for Virginia Department of Transportation
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159430,00.html