Those two types of hybrid are fundamentally different.
FULL can power the electric motor without using the battery-pack at all.
FULL can power the electric motor and recharge the battery-pack simultaneously.
FULL can propel the vehicle without the engine spinning.
ASSIST cannot do any of the above, which means there are certain things that it cannot do the same way... like dealing with stop & slow traffic or climbing a hill.
There has been no information as of yet that Honda will offer the 4 cylinder hybrid Accord anytime soon.
Honda V6 is much smoother and quieter with lower RPMs than the 4 cylinder on the highway.
If engines are running at idle, V6 has much less vibration.
Passing power on hills or highway is much greater with the V6.
Towing and heavier loads are possible with the V6.
Camry Hybrid is about economy; the Accord Hybrid is about power, handling, and overall performance. Both can do the job as they were intended- the missions are just different.
You tell me. Both were supposedly ALL presold. Yet most of the posters here on Edmund's walked in off the street and bought one. Most of the dealers have the RH & HH available. I think they are selling well. Not as Toyota/Lexus bragged in the news. They are selling better than Honda hybrids. I think it gets back to Honda does not like to sell anything as a "Loss Leader". Toyota is working on their image and it is just peanuts to them.
"For the drive concepts of the near future the objective is to make petrol cars as efficient as diesels, and diesels as clean as petrol cars," says Weber. According to figures released so far, things are going well. The petrol concept car, known as the S 320 DIRECT HYBRID, is said to achieve a 25% reduction in fuel consumption; despite producing a total of 296bhp, it manages 34.0mpg on the combined cycle while also achieving a 0-62mph acceleration time of 7.5 seconds.
The figures for the S 350 BLUETEC HYBRID - that's the diesel one - are similarly impressive: 240bhp, 36.7mpg and 0-62mph in 7.2 seconds. But the main aim with the diesel is to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions (see feature), the only form of exhaust nastiness which diesel engines still produce in greater quantities than petrol ones. Mercedes claims that NOx output has been reduced by 80% thanks to BLUETEC, a new exhaust purification technology achieved through selective catalytic reduction.
quote gagrice-"Both were supposedly ALL presold. Yet most of the posters here on Edmund's walked in off the street and bought one. Most of the dealers have the RH & HH available. I think they are selling well. Not as Toyota/Lexus bragged in the news. They are selling better than Honda hybrids. I think it gets back to Honda does not like to sell anything as a "Loss Leader". Toyota is working on their image and it is just peanuts to them."-end quote
OK Gar-Bear, lets' take these one at a time, 'K?
"Both were supposedly presold." - I think what you are referring to is the 12,000 "pre-orders" that were received for the Lexus RX400h. And that was an absolutely true number. What happened is that many of the first 12,000 "pre-orderers" backed out of their commitment, for whatever reason. That happens EVERY TIME any newly release car is pre-ordered in large quantities. People who order them ahead of time have "life changes" which require them to cancel the order. Changed jobs, lost jobs, decided on another car, got a divorce, got married, relocated, won the lottery - there are hundreds if not thousands of reasons why someone would have to cancel the order of a $48,000 vehicle a few months after deciding to buy it. It has nothing to do with the hybrid itself. So that made "floor stock" available to the walk-in public.
"They are selling better than the Honda Hybrids" - that is true because Toyota sells far more cars than Honda, PERIOD, and has many more dealerships. This phenomenon is not new to "hybrids" either - Toyota has ALWAYS OUTSOLD Honda in the USA. Toyota's manufacturing capacity is larger and they can meed the demand, while Honda does not have the flexibility to increase production very quickly like that. Honda had their "best ever month in the USA" in August 2005, and sold more hybrids that month than ever. Sure, some of that has to do with the recent gas prices problem, but as for reasons, who cares why? It means more hybrids on the road (good for us all) and more money in Honda's pockets for R&D to make better and more efficient hybrids in the future (good for us all.)
And I'm not even going into that "loss leader" thing because you are too set in your beliefs to change you, but I can guarantee you Toyota is not selling Hybrids at a loss.
Those two types of hybrid are fundamentally different. "
John, The 2006 HCH will have the capability to run on pure electric up to a certain speed. They basically doubled the electric motor capacty. That puts it in the same category as the Prius.
Also, you might want to mention in such discussions that the Prius will not operate without electric power, while the Honda IMA will function even with a dead traction battery. With the "pure electric" startup capability, I think this actually makes the IMA superior to the electric components of the HSD system.
> The 2006 HCH will have the capability to run on pure electric up to a certain speed.
I doubt it will be even close to the 41 MPH offered by Prius. And the range will definitely be shorter, since the capacity of the battery-pack is much smaller.
> That puts it in the same category as the Prius.
Not even close. The Honda has just one motor, a 15kW. The Toyota has *TWO* motors, a 10kW and a 50kW. The Toyota also has the ability to stop the engine motion when the motor is being used, the Honda doesn't. They are most definitely not the same.
> you might want to mention in such discussions that the Prius will not operate without electric power, while the Honda IMA will function even with a dead traction battery.
Then you might want to mention that the Honda will operate in an limited fashion, since the ability to recharge the 12-volt depends on the IMA. So the moment the engine shuts off, you may be stuck without the ability to start it back up.
you may be stuck without the ability to start it back up.
Let me get this straight. You are both saying the two main systems used in the hybrids are highly flawed? That you would be better off with an ICE only car. Finally someone agrees with me...
> That you would be better off with an ICE only car.
The reliability of the electric drive is quite a bit higher than that of a combustion engine. So your logic would be highly flawed... if it wasn't for the fact that you're splitting hairs about a statistically insignificant problem anyway. Heck, the odds of a combustion engine struggling from a simple thing like water in the line is dramatically more likely than that an electric drive failure.
The FULL hybrid has proven to start much easier in the winter than an ICE only car. Why haven't you mentioned that? With a far more powerful starter and a far more powerful battery (not to mention an engine designed for easier starting), the ICE only simply cannot compete.
Ford said Wednesday that gas-electric hybrid engines will be available in half of its vehicles within five years. Ford Motor Co. Chairman and CEO Bill Ford during a news conference, Sept. 21, 2005. (AP Photo/Amy E. Powers) Ford Motor Co. Chairman and CEO Bill Ford said the No. 2 U.S. automaker will be able to produce 250,000 hybrids in the next five years.
That's a misleading headline. Would have been more accurate to say, "Ford said that gas-electric hybrid engines will be available in half of its models within five years." Unless Ford plans on selling only 500,000 vehicles by 2010.
It just seemed strange to me that two hybrid enthusiasts were highlighting the weaknesses of the other type of hybrid. I like mine fine. I am not sure it is worth the $1000 extra I paid. I would think someone as gungho about the hybrid technology as john would welcome all such vehicles to the fold. I have not seen him say much good about the Honda system. Only how much better the Toyota system is. If the hybrid technology is ever to become mainstream it will have to be more than just Toyota selling them.
> If the hybrid technology is ever to become mainstream it will have to be more than just Toyota selling them.
...which is the very reason I've been endorsing the FULL hybrid technology so much. And if you read just a few posts back, Ford announced they will be expanding their selection of FULL hybrids. That is hybrid news, especially since it stiffles the ASSIST technology and totally squashes those vehicles labeled as hybrids that don't actually provide any thrust whatsoever from an electric motor or even a smog-related emission reduction.
"We have to be careful that we don't try to impose a technology on the market."
That quote from the article doesn't make any sense.
How exactly would they impose?
All Toyota did was offer their hybrid at sticker price, one that would ultimately yield a profit after the R&D was paid off. The result has been a demand so high that people are willing to wait months for delivery.
it stiffles the ASSIST technology and totally squashes those vehicles labeled as hybrids that don't actually provide any thrust whatsoever from an electric motor or even a smog-related emission reduction.
I thought shutting the engine down while stopped was cutting emissions. I guess it fooled the EPA & CARB. I don't have to get any smog checks on my GMC Sierra Hybrid.
That quote from the article doesn't make any sense.
I think what the CEO of Nissan is saying "hybrids do not make any sense". If people are willing to dump money into them he will sell them. He does not plan to spend any money on R&D. He will just buy the stuff from Toyota. Which should be coming down in price when they get the production in China up and running in the next few months.
When that wannabe hybrid is in motion, it is just as dirty as the other model since the engine & emission system is identical. Of course, with the added weight of the bigger starter and batteries, it may actually be dirtier.
The result has been a demand so high that people are willing to wait months for delivery.
JOHN
Demand so high? You must mean suppy so small. Hybrids are less than 1% of global sales. Miniscule! Does not require much of a demand to exceed supply at this production level.
"We have to be careful that we don't try to impose a technology on the market."
That quote from the article doesn't make any sense.
Makes perfect sense. Toyota is imposing the technology thru advertising propaganda, government is imposing hybrids thru tax credits and other legislation such as HOV lanes allowing hybrids. Carlos is simpy stating that hybrid tech. should not be forced on others.
Nobody is being force fed. People just want a choice for fuel efficient vehicles. Unfortunately no American car manufactuers care to offer any. We have DC offering us the gas guzzling Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger. Remember the Charger is a hybrid according to their advertising. It burns rubber and gas! On the the other side we have tons of advertising for the Hummer 2. Ooooohh.... it goes 0-60 in 12 seconds and gets 11 MPG. Nice...... You folks can trash hybrids all you want. The thousands of people that own them now are all smug as $3 gas will be the norm in short order. As an analogy, 95% of computer owners are operating on Windows, the rest are Mac (forget Linux for the moment). The MAC users though small in number are always laughing when the Windows folks get spyware, viruses etc.
> Toyota is imposing the technology thru advertising propaganda
Really? Imposing means to force or obtrude. Since when are they doing that? For that matter, how often do you ever even see a hybrid advertisement of any type?
> Carlos is simpy stating that hybrid tech. should not be forced on others.
Again, what evidence is there of forcing? The tax credits are limited & expiring, for the sake of jump-starting the automakers far behind the competition. The HOV lane legislation does not allow HOV use. All it does is authorize individual states to make the decision to offer qualified hybrids (many don't meet the minimum criteria) to help relieve congestion, which will also expire and intended to help the competition catch up.
What kind of lame anti-hybrid excuse is that? Popular new vehicles, like Scion, don't even sell that many per model per year. Just think of the impact PZEV will do if each of the 60,000,000 new vehicles each year worldwide were that clean. And imagine how much less gas would be used.
Entirely new technologies don't get adopted overnight. Look at the computer industry. Their product costs far less than a vehicle and has a shorter useful lifetime. Yet, people continue to buy older technology anyway... even if it costs difference for the newer is very little or none.
The reality is that Prius was breaking all time growth records for entirely new technologies, even before gas prices began to surge. And once brand recognition for that technology, namely HSD, is established, growth for it is very likely to continue.
Camry-Hybrid will definitely trouble the competition, who is already struggling by having to offer employee discounts. Dropping cost due to increased production volume will make the situation even worse.
Face it, seeing 200,000 Prius now on roads in the United States will contribute to increased sales. It's just like the invasion of the SUV back in the early 90's. Their numbers were low back then too. And the reason for buying one didn't even make sense. Yet years later, they dominated the market.
Yeah, hard to believe, isn't it? But blogs are news for many people. Remember how blogs opened up the Dan Rather story? They are getting serious.
Here's what I would call an op-ed piece (vs. news) on a group that is against the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers because it doesn't believe they have done enough to reduce CO2 emissions, even in hybrids:
blog- a public web site where users post informal journals of their thoughts, comments, and philosophies, updated frequently and normally reflecting the views of the blog's creator.
news - Information about recent events or happenings, especially as reported by newspapers, periodicals, radio, or television.
More: Toyota Motor Corp. says it has waiting lists for its Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid sedan and its luxury Lexus 400h gas-electric hybrid SUV. But Toyota has no waiting list for its Toyota Echo subcompact economy car, which at nearly 40 miles per gallon on the highway gets substantially better mileage than the Lexus 400h and just-as-good real-world mileage as the hybrid Prius sedan -- for much less money in both cases.
Car & Driver did a comparo awhile back of the ECHO, Jetta TDI, Prius, and HCH. The ECHO finished dead last by a wide margin. It is no better than entry-level, basic transportation, doesn't have near the refinement or features of the Prius (or the other cars for that matter), and doesn't offer hatchback convenience. Maybe when the new Yaris hatchback replaces the ECHO sales will pick up.
Comparing a 2nd Generation Prius to a toilet is ironic to me. Thats like comparing a Hummer to a toilet ( that the owner keeps flushing $$$$$ down everytimes he fills up). Now thats a comparison worth noting to me. Railroadjames(Free-us Prius)
This is just a rumor I have heard from some of our land rover people but supposebly they are considering a diesel electric hybrid Range Rover. Of course there have been rumors about a Aston Martin powered V12 range rover for a while as well and still have not seen any of that yet either.
Hybrid hypeToyota's Prius was the world's first hybrid in 1997. Sales are up more than 130 percent this year and are expected to reach 100,000 in total sales by the end of 2005.
Almost 100,000 WoW! Compare that to the 427,000 Camrys sold in US in 2004. Compare that to the projected 180,000 Jeep Libertys that will be made in Toledo, Ohio in 2005. With all the hype about hybrids I am shocked that Prius is such a small piece of the market.
I think that it is actually an amazing statistic that for every 4 Camrys sold, one Prius is sold. 100,000 is in the same ballpark as Camry and is actually much higher than many other car models.
And the Prius is growing faster year over year than most other car models. Camry hybrid will have a big impact on the Prius model's growth, but should increase overall hybrid sales.
People are slow to change. Sustained higher gas prices will be a catalyst. If gas stayed < $2 a gallon then the average buyer wouldn't be interested in fuel economy, but with higher prices, consumer sentiment will change . . . slowly.
"Not even close. The Honda has just one motor, a 15kW. The Toyota has *TWO* motors, a 10kW and a 50kW. The Toyota also has the ability to stop the engine motion when the motor is being used, the Honda doesn't. They are most definitely not the same."
I guess you haven't read the new specs, the HCH will have over 30Kw, they doubled the capacity.
"Then you might want to mention that the Honda will operate in an limited fashion, since the ability to recharge the 12-volt depends on the IMA. So the moment the engine shuts off, you may be stuck without the ability to start it back up."
Well, I have read posts from people who were running without the electrical parts of the IMA, maybe they were using jumper cables every morning... I was basing my reply on having read these posts.
Comments
Why do you believe Honda won't also offer a 4-cylinder?
JOHN
Those two types of hybrid are fundamentally different.
FULL can power the electric motor without using the battery-pack at all.
FULL can power the electric motor and recharge the battery-pack simultaneously.
FULL can propel the vehicle without the engine spinning.
ASSIST cannot do any of the above, which means there are certain things that it cannot do the same way... like dealing with stop & slow traffic or climbing a hill.
JOHN
Honda V6 is much smoother and quieter with lower RPMs than the 4 cylinder on the highway.
If engines are running at idle, V6 has much less vibration.
Passing power on hills or highway is much greater with the V6.
Towing and heavier loads are possible with the V6.
Camry Hybrid is about economy; the Accord Hybrid is about power, handling, and overall performance. Both can do the job as they were intended- the missions are just different.
You tell me. Both were supposedly ALL presold. Yet most of the posters here on Edmund's walked in off the street and bought one. Most of the dealers have the RH & HH available. I think they are selling well. Not as Toyota/Lexus bragged in the news. They are selling better than Honda hybrids. I think it gets back to Honda does not like to sell anything as a "Loss Leader". Toyota is working on their image and it is just peanuts to them.
The figures for the S 350 BLUETEC HYBRID - that's the diesel one - are similarly impressive: 240bhp, 36.7mpg and 0-62mph in 7.2 seconds. But the main aim with the diesel is to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions (see feature), the only form of exhaust nastiness which diesel engines still produce in greater quantities than petrol ones. Mercedes claims that NOx output has been reduced by 80% thanks to BLUETEC, a new exhaust purification technology achieved through selective catalytic reduction.
http://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/2005/september/14/6953.asp
OK Gar-Bear, lets' take these one at a time, 'K?
"Both were supposedly presold." - I think what you are referring to is the 12,000 "pre-orders" that were received for the Lexus RX400h. And that was an absolutely true number. What happened is that many of the first 12,000 "pre-orderers" backed out of their commitment, for whatever reason. That happens EVERY TIME any newly release car is pre-ordered in large quantities. People who order them ahead of time have "life changes" which require them to cancel the order. Changed jobs, lost jobs, decided on another car, got a divorce, got married, relocated, won the lottery - there are hundreds if not thousands of reasons why someone would have to cancel the order of a $48,000 vehicle a few months after deciding to buy it. It has nothing to do with the hybrid itself. So that made "floor stock" available to the walk-in public.
"They are selling better than the Honda Hybrids" - that is true because Toyota sells far more cars than Honda, PERIOD, and has many more dealerships. This phenomenon is not new to "hybrids" either - Toyota has ALWAYS OUTSOLD Honda in the USA. Toyota's manufacturing capacity is larger and they can meed the demand, while Honda does not have the flexibility to increase production very quickly like that. Honda had their "best ever month in the USA" in August 2005, and sold more hybrids that month than ever. Sure, some of that has to do with the recent gas prices problem, but as for reasons, who cares why? It means more hybrids on the road (good for us all) and more money in Honda's pockets for R&D to make better and more efficient hybrids in the future (good for us all.)
And I'm not even going into that "loss leader" thing because you are too set in your beliefs to change you, but I can guarantee you Toyota is not selling Hybrids at a loss.
Those two types of hybrid are fundamentally different. "
John,
The 2006 HCH will have the capability to run on pure electric up to a certain speed. They basically doubled the electric motor capacty. That puts it in the same category as the Prius.
Also, you might want to mention in such discussions that the Prius will not operate without electric power, while the Honda IMA will function even with a dead traction battery. With the "pure electric" startup capability, I think this actually makes the IMA superior to the electric components of the HSD system.
I doubt it will be even close to the 41 MPH offered by Prius. And the range will definitely be shorter, since the capacity of the battery-pack is much smaller.
> That puts it in the same category as the Prius.
Not even close. The Honda has just one motor, a 15kW. The Toyota has *TWO* motors, a 10kW and a 50kW. The Toyota also has the ability to stop the engine motion when the motor is being used, the Honda doesn't. They are most definitely not the same.
> you might want to mention in such discussions that the Prius will not operate without electric power, while the Honda IMA will function even with a dead traction battery.
Then you might want to mention that the Honda will operate in an limited fashion, since the ability to recharge the 12-volt depends on the IMA. So the moment the engine shuts off, you may be stuck without the ability to start it back up.
JOHN
Let me get this straight. You are both saying the two main systems used in the hybrids are highly flawed? That you would be better off with an ICE only car.
Finally someone agrees with me...
The reliability of the electric drive is quite a bit higher than that of a combustion engine. So your logic would be highly flawed... if it wasn't for the fact that you're splitting hairs about a statistically insignificant problem anyway. Heck, the odds of a combustion engine struggling from a simple thing like water in the line is dramatically more likely than that an electric drive failure.
The FULL hybrid has proven to start much easier in the winter than an ICE only car. Why haven't you mentioned that? With a far more powerful starter and a far more powerful battery (not to mention an engine designed for easier starting), the ICE only simply cannot compete.
JOHN
Ford Motor Co. Chairman and CEO Bill Ford during a news conference, Sept. 21, 2005. (AP Photo/Amy E. Powers)
Ford Motor Co. Chairman and CEO Bill Ford said the No. 2 U.S. automaker will be able to produce 250,000 hybrids in the next five years.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/09/21/Ford_hubrid20050921.html
Hybrids a terrible business prospect?
...which is the very reason I've been endorsing the FULL hybrid technology so much. And if you read just a few posts back, Ford announced they will be expanding their selection of FULL hybrids. That is hybrid news, especially since it stiffles the ASSIST technology and totally squashes those vehicles labeled as hybrids that don't actually provide any thrust whatsoever from an electric motor or even a smog-related emission reduction.
JOHN
That quote from the article doesn't make any sense.
How exactly would they impose?
All Toyota did was offer their hybrid at sticker price, one that would ultimately yield a profit after the R&D was paid off. The result has been a demand so high that people are willing to wait months for delivery.
JOHN
I thought shutting the engine down while stopped was cutting emissions. I guess it fooled the EPA & CARB. I don't have to get any smog checks on my GMC Sierra Hybrid.
I think what the CEO of Nissan is saying "hybrids do not make any sense". If people are willing to dump money into them he will sell them. He does not plan to spend any money on R&D. He will just buy the stuff from Toyota. Which should be coming down in price when they get the production in China up and running in the next few months.
Nissan should call their hybrid an AltiPus!
JOHN
JOHN
Demand so high? You must mean suppy so small. Hybrids are less than 1% of global sales. Miniscule! Does not require much of a demand to exceed supply at this production level.
Toyota is kind of the De Boers of the hybrid world. Dribble them out to give the illusion that they are more valuable than they really are.
That quote from the article doesn't make any sense.
Makes perfect sense. Toyota is imposing the technology thru advertising propaganda, government is imposing hybrids thru tax credits and other legislation such as HOV lanes allowing hybrids. Carlos is simpy stating that hybrid tech. should not be forced on others.
You folks can trash hybrids all you want. The thousands of people that own them now are all smug as $3 gas will be the norm in short order. As an analogy, 95% of computer owners are operating on Windows, the rest are Mac (forget Linux for the moment). The MAC users though small in number are always laughing when the Windows folks get spyware, viruses etc.
Really? Imposing means to force or obtrude. Since when are they doing that? For that matter, how often do you ever even see a hybrid advertisement of any type?
> Carlos is simpy stating that hybrid tech. should not be forced on others.
Again, what evidence is there of forcing? The tax credits are limited & expiring, for the sake of jump-starting the automakers far behind the competition. The HOV lane legislation does not allow HOV use. All it does is authorize individual states to make the decision to offer qualified hybrids (many don't meet the minimum criteria) to help relieve congestion, which will also expire and intended to help the competition catch up.
JOHN
What kind of lame anti-hybrid excuse is that? Popular new vehicles, like Scion, don't even sell that many per model per year. Just think of the impact PZEV will do if each of the 60,000,000 new vehicles each year worldwide were that clean. And imagine how much less gas would be used.
Entirely new technologies don't get adopted overnight. Look at the computer industry. Their product costs far less than a vehicle and has a shorter useful lifetime. Yet, people continue to buy older technology anyway... even if it costs difference for the newer is very little or none.
The reality is that Prius was breaking all time growth records for entirely new technologies, even before gas prices began to surge. And once brand recognition for that technology, namely HSD, is established, growth for it is very likely to continue.
Camry-Hybrid will definitely trouble the competition, who is already struggling by having to offer employee discounts. Dropping cost due to increased production volume will make the situation even worse.
Face it, seeing 200,000 Prius now on roads in the United States will contribute to increased sales. It's just like the invasion of the SUV back in the early 90's. Their numbers were low back then too. And the reason for buying one didn't even make sense. Yet years later, they dominated the market.
It's only a matter of time.
JOHN
There are omissions too, like not mentioning the battery lawsuit and production capacity limitations... which affects availability.
JOHN
Here's what I would call an op-ed piece (vs. news) on a group that is against the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers because it doesn't believe they have done enough to reduce CO2 emissions, even in hybrids:
http://ucsaction.org/campaign/7_05_nissan_hyundai/explanation
news - Information about recent events or happenings, especially as reported by newspapers, periodicals, radio, or television.
Porshe and VW to develop hybrid This is news.
blog
buyers seek HP
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=8427
Railroadjames(Free-us Prius)
Almost 100,000 WoW! Compare that to the 427,000 Camrys sold in US in 2004. Compare that to the projected 180,000 Jeep Libertys that will be made in Toledo, Ohio in 2005. With all the hype about hybrids I am shocked that Prius is such a small piece of the market.
That's extraordinarily misleading. Sales of *ALL* other cars by *ALL* other pale in comparison to Camry, since it is the #1 selling car in America.
Why not mention that Prius ranks #3 for the most sold car in Toyota's offering?
Why not mention that Prius production is limited to the supply of battery-pack modules provided by Panasonic?
Why not mention that Highlander-Hybrid and RX400h are both competing for those same battery-pack module supply?
Why not mention that the price of gas was an entire $1 per gallon cheaper earlier this year?
JOHN
And the Prius is growing faster year over year than most other car models. Camry hybrid will have a big impact on the Prius model's growth, but should increase overall hybrid sales.
People are slow to change. Sustained higher gas prices will be a catalyst. If gas stayed < $2 a gallon then the average buyer wouldn't be interested in fuel economy, but with higher prices, consumer sentiment will change . . . slowly.
I guess you haven't read the new specs, the HCH will have over 30Kw, they doubled the capacity.
"Then you might want to mention that the Honda will operate in an limited fashion, since the ability to recharge the 12-volt depends on the IMA. So the moment the engine shuts off, you may be stuck without the ability to start it back up."
Well, I have read posts from people who were running without the electrical parts of the IMA, maybe they were using jumper cables every morning... I was basing my reply on having read these posts.
The peak overall system power could very well be 30kW, hence "capacity".
But the motor itself certainly isn't. The specs I've read clearly state 15kW.
JOHN