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Hybrids in the News

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Comments

  • quasar4quasar4 Posts: 110
    --Sorry, I know this is veering off topic, but your argument is actually what's irrational. If you believe that gov't should have no role in subsidizing the auto manufacturers, then you should vehemently be arguing against the outrageous "Hummer" of a tax loophole. The tax code was originally written to assist small businesses and farmers. Take it from an ol' Iowa farm boy --no farmer in his right mind would choose a Hummer (or similar SUV) over a more versatile pickup (likewise for small businesses and vans). When's the last time you saw a farmer hauling hay in the back of his Hummer? That tax break instead goes to needy real estate agents carting clients around, or pauper law firms for making Starbuck's cappuccino runs. This does nothing to "...promote the general welfare..." which is the feds role if you believe those crafty guys who wrote the Constitution. By contrast, encouraging public transit, energy conservation, pollution reduction, and reduced dependence on Mid-East oil, does. The tax payers of Washington state are picking up 97% of the tab --the 3% Uncle Sam kicks in is a veritable bargain. I now return you to the Prius discussion :)
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    That credit proposal failed miserably though. Instead administration is continuing with the sunset process of the current deduction.

    Bummer, eh?

    JOHN
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    I guess I'm just looking through the "At least he tried." glasses.

    Politics aside, I think that Hybrid technology and value is more than well on it's way to becoming a major player. I'm sure most of the companies are looking at the Prius (and others) and thinking "God, we need to jump on that bandwagon!" There are other alternatives, including hydrogen and fuel cell technology that should also be researched.
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    Actually, getting on the fuel cell bandwagon would still make us behind Japan. Japan's government, who subsidized the manufacturers for nearly 30 years to bring about Hyrid vehicles, has moved most of it's push to bring Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles to the market.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,133
    As close as I can tell the tax incentive was designed to give businesses the opportunity to purchase any vehicle over 6000 gvw. I think the Hummer bit was just "spin" by those that wanted smaller vehicles included in that incentive. You can purchase a 1 ton PU under that incentive and write it off the first year. It was designed to stimulate the economy. It also had a slight side affect of getting newer trucks with lower emissions on the road. The fact that SUVs fit into that 6000gvw parameter is irrelevant. The same business can write off any vehicle they want over the normal depreciation period. It was a stimulus and mis-represented by some political opponents as something it was not.
  • quasar4quasar4 Posts: 110
    --Actually the fact that luxury SUVs fit into the tax break category is totally relevant to the spirit of the law and determining its validity and effectiveness in helping those it was intended to target in the first place. With that said, what's not relevant is this topic to the subject "Hybrids in the News." Let's agree to disagree.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,133
    Back to the news

    By Rich Smith
    The outset of an epic competition for the mindshare of America's green auto buyers is just about the worst time Honda could have picked to allow questions about its engineering quality to emerge.
    In all, Honda is recalling more than 1.1 million Accords, Acuras, Odyssey minivans, and Pilot and Acura SUVs. That's nearly 90% of the company's total annual U.S. sales for all of 2003 (1.35 million)!
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Posts: 471
    > compexity of the Prius

    There's the source of your confusion.

    Prius is *LESS* than a traditional automatic, not more.


    Are you actually claiming that the Prius tranny COSTS less than the Camry's. To the MANUFACTURER.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    How many Honda hybrids were recalled? I missed that part.
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    I know this is more about Hydrogen Fuel Cells than Hybrids but it is news. I have heard so many "Why is the US having to play catch up with the Japanese?" and then so many "We should not be focusing on Hydrogen Fuel Cells". I have to wonder, why the contradiction? Or maybe it is merely politics.

    From the Toyota Corporate site:

    TOYOTA ENVIRONMENTAL UPDATES

    Twenty-sixth issue, June, 2004

    Toyota to participate in major demonstration of hydrogen in transportation
    As part of a public/private partnership, Toyota will participate in an ambitious five-year project to demonstrate and validate advancements in hydrogen-based transportation infrastructure. The program will encompass up to 24 fueling stations in California, some of which are existing facilities, and others that will be constructed within the framework of the project. The stations will feature a range of hydrogen production and fueling approaches, including the use of renewable energy and the production of hydrogen from natural gas. Toyota, Honda and Nissan plan to assign up to a total of 65 fuel cell vehicles to the project, funded in part by The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). Led by Air Products, a leading producer of hydrogen, the program will include the participation of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, ConocoPhillips, the National Fuel Cell Research Center of the University of California, Irvine, and California's South Coast Air Quality Management District.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,133
    I don't believe any were recalled. I think what the reporter was saying is that with the heated competition between Honda & Toyota for sales of their hybrid vehicles, along with the rest of their vehicles, this was unfortunate timing. A major recall reflects on the company as a whole. Honda has prided itself on reliability over the years. This was a BIG error in their testing of the transmissions. It will cause bloodshed in sales even for vehicles that are not at all affected, such as the Civic HCH.
  • tempusvntempusvn Posts: 119
    Yes, it means that next year when the corporate reliability ratings come out Honda will take a big hit, because the recall is such a large percentage of their total production.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    I guess another headline for that article could have been "Honda hybrids demostrate their reliability, not included in recalls." They could have gone on to say that the Honda hybrids use different transmissions than the cars that were recalled. But maybe that wouldn't garner as many page hits as an article that tries to relate the ultra-hot hybrid market to a recall that has nothing to do with hybrids.

    What the recall does reflect is that Honda no longer has the huge edge in quality it enjoyed in the past--the U.S. and Korea are closing the gap fast.
  • tempusvntempusvn Posts: 119
    In the just released JD Power Initial Quality rankings, Hyundai passed Toyota to jump to #7 overall. Hyundai has also announced a Hybrid Development program.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,133
    Those are pretty impressive crash results. I wonder if the Prius that are sold here have the 8 airbags. I like the fact they test against other cars. That is more realistic than into a concrete wall.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    The article states that eight airbags are standard equipment on the Euro Prius model that was tested, as well as VSC. The side bags/curtains are optional in the U.S. but are on virtually every Prius sold here, as it's hard to find one without them--impossible in my region.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/05gmhybrid.htm

    Only 15% fuel savings! Well, better than nothing and it will be effective for construction use by offering electric power at job sites.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0407/06/c01-203897.htm

    GM is considering building a hybrid in China in order to be in the hybrid market.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    I'd be very surprised if GM or any manufacturer sold hybrids in China anytime soon. Price is a factor in China, and with the current hybrid "premium" being around $3000 that will be a substantial barrier to hybrid adoption in China. Gas prices in China are actually lower than those in the U.S. right now, based on what I saw in Beijing recently.
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    I like the phrase "advanced propulsion strategy" guess GM doesn't want to use the H word.
  • quasar4quasar4 Posts: 110
    --Here's a Boston Globe article that may be of some interest. Hybrid Taxi
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    GMC uses the h word - snip - Chances are that at some time in your life, you had a car whose engine shut off at every stoplight. It's unlikely, though, that you paid an extra $2,500 for the feature.
    http://www.newsday.com/business/columnists/ny-sstom0709c,0,498048- - - .column?coll=ny-business-columnists
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    Bringing a new vehicle in for repair to anywhere but the dealer within the warranty period doesn't make any sense.

    Why would you willingly pay for a covered service?

    In other words, it means little to judge the current state of the market when that aspect won't be relevent until 3 years from now anyway.

    And if you do feel the need to push that aspect, then the fact that a "full" hybrid is engineered to be more reliable than the traditional design becomes a discussion topic that cannot be ignored.

    JOHN
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    Are there no hybrids that are more than 3 years old? Are all hybrids still under warranty?

    My anecdotal experience is that hybrid owners that I know have had almost no required repairs to their vehicles.

    I do not believe it is likely to have problems with the Toyota and Honda hybrids. Just my personal opinion.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    Prius is about to have its 8th birthday.

    The teaching process for the mechanics is no big deal at this point. In fact, there are a number that are quite well informed already.

    So your implication that 3 years from now none will have a clue is nothing but gibberish.

    Sorry to be blunt. But with so many new HSD vehicles planned over the next few years, it just doesn't make any sense that other mechanics wouldn't want in on the income that knowledge could provide.

    JOHN
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    quote John-Bringing a new vehicle in for repair to anywhere but the dealer within the warranty period doesn't make any sense.

    Why would you willingly pay for a covered service?

    In other words, it means little to judge the current state of the market when that aspect won't be relevent until 3 years from now anyway.

    And if you do feel the need to push that aspect, then the fact that a "full" hybrid is engineered to be more reliable than the traditional design becomes a discussion topic that cannot be ignored.

    JOHN -end

    Read the post I just quoted. Read my response to your post. Then read post 187. You must be drinking too much battery juice John.

    I never implied that mechanics will have no knowledge in 3 years. YOU implied that all Prius were under warranty when you stated it makes no sense to go anywhere other than dealer. All of the Prius are NOT under warranty. Even for people making initial purchase it is wise to consider where service will be obtained when out of warranty.

    Blunt is fine. It is your cluelessness that is difficult to deal with.

    What aspect am I pushing? I posted a link to an article regarding hybrids in the hybrids in the news topic.

    Gibberish? LOL.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    The discussion was about new purchases, not about those that *ALREADY* own a hybrid.

    So your implication that I meant "all" is incorrect.

    JOHN
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