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Comments
I have to believe that is true!
Deep under the ocean’s floor and high in the Arctic’s frozen landscape, a potential solution to the world’s looming energy shortage lies trapped in ice.
http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/weekly/nov7-03/grozic.html
I don't believe we should waste resources. I am not convinced that hybrids are a logical solution to energy conservation. Smaller, lighter, simpler vehicles make more sense to me. I don't see the hybrids moving US that direction.
Hybrids are not the ONLY solution, but it's hard to justify that they are not a PART of the solution....
"The U.S. Department of Transportation reports that the average life span of a vehicle is just over 13 years, with a final mileage of 145,000 miles. Half of all registered vehicles are at least 8 years old, a third of them 10 years old or older. The average new-car buyer trades in the car at 55,000 miles, approximately every four years. That leaves an average life expectancy of 9 years and 90,000 miles for a 4-year-old used car. "
from this page:
http://www.safecarguide.com/gui/new/neworused.htm
People driving a hybrid are no more saving the world then I am by burning wood instead of oil to heat my house. I do it to save some money, and clean up the yard at the same time. And I put fluorescent bulbs in my lamps to save money. It is not going to save the world or make much difference in energy usage.
Hybrids have a future if and when fuel becomes expensive enough to pay for their premium cost.
As far as that Lexus SUV hybrid, I've got to laugh that people who are going to pay near $50K for a vehicle are going to be concerned with saving $10/week in gas compared to some other mid-size SUV. And if they wanted to be "green" why choose a vehicle like that in the first place. Buy an Avalon or such.
I whole heartedly agree with your statement.
However, the cars you didn't buy were just bought by someone else so it doesn't matter in the big picture, right?
Just like it is fruitless to buy a fuel efficient vehicle because someone else just buys the gas you didn't.....right?
"The U.S. Department of Transportation reports that the average life span of a vehicle is just over 13 years, with a final mileage of 145,000 miles."
Actually, I'm surprised it's that high. When you see information like that, you have to ask, "What generally takes cars OUT of service - mechanical problems too costly to fix (reliability problem) or.......an accident?"
If you eliminate accidents as the reason a car is no longer in service, I'm curious about what the average life span/mileage is for cars.
Back to the issue of reducing global air pollution by reducing U.S. oil consumption, I'll try a simple analogy:
1 big kid and 5 little kids are sitting around the table eating beans. They all love beans. Beans are good. Unfortunately, eating beans can lead to 'air pollution'. They are all eating beans out of the same pot but the big kid is mean and scares the little kids so he gets the lions share of beans. How sad.
But the big kid has taken a healthy dose of Bean-O, so he doesn't generate nearly as much 'air pollution' per bowlful as the other kids. But the big kid starts to get a conscience; "Gee", he thinks to himself, "if I cut back on my bean consumption, maybe the room wouldn't stink so bad".
So the big kid eats fewer beans. Does the room smell better or worse?
Depends on the supply of beans. If mom fills the pot as quick as the kids eat, then the little kids are already getting as much as they want so their consumption stays the same. Result: fewer beans consumed by the big kid means fewer beans consumed period - the air starts to clear. However........if mom doles the beans out a little bit at a time (hey, she's trying to get those beans to last), then as the big kids consumption goes down, the little kids consumption goes up, but they haven't taken any Bean-O. End result? Same amount of beans consumed, but the air is actually worse.
Like I said, there is no "minimum oil requirement" that the Saudis can enforce on the world.
I understand that all of this stuff is intertwined, but we can't let it spin off into the void here.
PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2695109
I see the biggest benefit from hybrids as a means to reduce fuel consumption for that individual owner. As fuel costs rise (from whatever reason), people in the market for a new vehicle will begin to consider fuel economy as an ever larger component in their purchase decision. There are several ways to get better fuel economy:
1. Buy a smaller, lighter vehicle with similar performance.
2. Buy the same size vehicle with reduced performance.
3. Buy a hybrid.
4. Buy a cheaper car and not worry about the cost of fuel.
5. Any combination of the above (although combining 'cheap' with 'hybrid' may be a stretch for the forseeable future).
The first commercial hybrid in the U.S. (Honda Insight if memory serves me right), went for ultimate economy given the current hybrid technology: small, light car with reduced performance and a hybrid powertrain. But to gain more and more acceptance in the American market, hybrids are being offered now in ever larger, heavier cars with the same (if not higher) performance.
In other words, it appears that current success (and acceptance) of hybrids seems to be a case of having your cake (somewhat better economy) and eating it too (no sacrifice in creature comforts or performance).
Where will hybrids go in the future? Depends on the cost of the technology vs. cost of fuel. Personally, I think the cost of the technology can only go down and hybrids will be more widely available in all segments. If the cost of fuel rises at a somewhat moderate rate, I think hybrids will mostly go towards enabling Americans to enjoy all the same room/creature comforts/performance we've become accustomed to while offering moderately better economy. If the cost of fuel rises fairly rapidly, smaller/lighter/slower hybrids with an emphasis on economy to the exclusion of all else will be more prevalent.
I continue to believe that the purchase of a hybrid should be based solely on economics and/or the desire for high-tech gizmos/'latest thing'.
1. you can afford $20K-$25K for a new car.
2. you do not need anything more than a five passenger car (until the Highlander anyway.)
3. you are not a NASCAR driver.
4. you want to have an ongoing "who cares?" attitude about where gas prices go.
5. you feel good about driving a lower emission car.
6. you feel good about getting more MPG than a comparable "gas-only" car.
7. you enjoy using technology to lower your spending.
If your criteria meets those or almost all of those, buying a Hybrid should be a no-brainer for you.
If the future of hybrids holds what they say (so many more models coming out in next 3-5 years) then there will soon be a Hybrid for virtually ANY need.
Do you really believe that? I came onto Edmund's in 1999 looking for a small economical PU truck. Here it is 2005 and there is less than there was in 1999. From 1985 to 2005 the small Toyota 4 cylinder PU went from combined 29 MPG to 23 MPG. This is a very large segment of the PU market. I would be more than happy with a small hybrid PU that gets 35-40 MPG. I don't see any mention of that in any of the projected hybrid vehicles. Toyota is only interested in the high dollar market. I still say with the exception of the Insight & HCH, hybrids are for the upper middle class market.
Do you see any hybrids on the horizon that will sell in the $15k-$20k bracket?
And your "toyota is only interested in high dollar market" is far from reality.
Base price of Prius is $21xxx. Base Price of HH wlll be in the upper 30s, comparable to other high end smaller SUVs. There is a Tahoe which MSRPs for near $38000 in today's paper !!
And Toyota has said (repeatedly) that they plan on hybridizing their entire line. How will that be "high dollar market" only?
I see that statement repeated a lot. Toyota has gone for the more expensive vehicles since the Prius. And that base $21k price is not realistic. That does not even include side airbags. Does any dealer ever get a base Prius? With the side air bags the Prius pushes $24k. No fancy doodads for that price. The RX400h is $50k+ & the HH Limited is projected at about $40k. The next car on the hybrid drawing board is a Lexus GS??? probably sometime in 2006. What hybrid is on the horizon for the masses. Joe average is just not interested in paying extra for a hybrid version of their favorite car. I think the Civic & Accord hybrids are good examples. The Prius is a novelty and different. That attracts attention. If you follow the RX400 board you see several people that thought they had a long wait have already gotten their car. I don't know what that means for sure. The Highlander is a nice midsize CUV, not in a league with the Tahoe. There are rumors that GM will use the Tahoe as their hybrid test bed. Hopefully it is more practical than the hybrid PU from GM.
I bet Toyota will be the first manufacturer with a hybrid PU.
Ummmmmmm, isn't the Silverado hybrid a.......hybrid PU?
I guess GM just wanted to be able to put "Hybrid" somewhere on the tailgate....
I'd only call that a specialized alternator.
Many, many years ago a freind of mine bought a used 1968 Pontiac Ambulance.
It too had a large alternator that fed outlets in the back. Guess that was a hybrid too??
:confuse:
http://www.hybrid.com/modules.php?name=Mercedes_Hybrid_Cars
Interesting if they could find a way to power a hybrid with this method.
from this page:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/05/03/057818.html
vehicles led to a new all-time record result for Honda hybrid vehicles. April
sales of hybrid models jumped 70.7 percent on a daily selling rate basis to
5,579 including all-time record sales of Civic Hybrid, up 9.8 percent to
3,466 units, and sales of 2,023 Accord Hybrids, the best month since its
December 2004 launch. Year-to-date sales of hybrid models rose 56.7 percent
to 14,604 vehicles, versus year-ago results of 9,317 hybrids.
"There is no question that today's consumer is looking more closely at
fuel economy as a key part of their purchase decision," said Dick Colliver,
executive vice president of American Honda. "Our commitment to delivering
products with superior fuel economy along with industry-leading safety
performance and fun-to-drive character is clearly resonating with these
buyers."
For those keeping count of 2005 Hybrid sales in the USA:
That's 34,225 Priuses YTD.
14,604 Honda hybrids.
5,700 Escape hybrids. (approximately)
That's 54,529 YTD so far. Add in the RX400h and the Highlander and US Hybrid sales is going to approach
175,000 vehicles
in 2005, shattering all expectations.
I'd say the future looks brighter than ever !!
in 2005, shattering all expectations.
me: and that's where we differ. I don't see 175,000 or even 1,000,000 a large number considering the number of cars sold and the 230M that are on the road for a number of future years.
As I said before when Ford found they had a hit on their hands with 1 model, way back in 1964, with the Mustang, they ramped up to 400,000/year within a year. Your 175,000 is with a larger car buying popuilation, buying more models, from multiple manufacturers who have been building hybrids for several years.
Again you don't explain if hybrids are such a hit and in demand why these car companies aren't building a few hundred thousand EACH next year or the year after? 175,000 is about 1% of the new car market. that is low IMO.
But the growth of the hybrid vehicle sales numbers is not small potatoes. From 80,000 in 2004 to more than 175,000 in 2005? That's incredible and will outpace any other car sector in the USA by a huge margin.
I say large thanks to all the hybrid buyers - you are helping many problems with your intelligent purchase......
It's analogous to getting out your pom-poms and giving a rousing cheer because someone gave a hungry, homeless person 2 quarters instead of 1; it doesn't make much of a difference. Nice thought, but not much substance. Give the guy $10K and then I'll agree. Similarly when people and manufacturer's decide that there's a market for millions and millions, I'll believe they're an effect.
There's a market segment of high-powered, sport and luxury cars that are being developed and sold that negate any positive effects. The fact is that manufacturers have not moved far from their required CAFE standards. For every high mpg car built, that CAFE credit is being used to build increasingly higher-powered models.
The Prius stands on it's own merits.
Honda is the Greenest car maker on the Planet - they got that way by making Hybrids. They have THREE of them, in case you missed that, the most of any car maker.
First US Hybrid
First 6-cylinder Hybrid
First Hybrid with more HP than the gas equivalent model of the car
I'd say they are doing pretty good.
Remember - having an opinion on the subject is fine. Attacking and calling each other names is not.
Not in my experience. My dad has an '04 Prius which currently has approximately 24k miles on it. His mileage over the life of the car is about 48mpg. I've got a Celica GTS (geared more for performance than economy) with a fairly high strung motor and I've averaged about 31mpg over the last 50k miles. A 'regular' Corolla LE should average in the 34-36mpg range.
That 48 mpg is certainly NOT nearly 'double' the mileage. Is it better? Certainly. I'd say it's probably 25-35% better than a comparable car. I can't speak to the Civic Hybrid but I doubt sincerely that the Civic Hybrid gets double the mileage of a regular Civic.
You hybrid cheerleaders would have a lot more credence if your claims were less.....over the top? Just my .02.
When will half (50%) of the cars/trucks/SUV's on the road be hybrids. When can 50% of the American public have the option to drive a high-mpg hybrid? 25 years from now? 35 years? If oil has or will peak very shortly, isn't this switch to hybrids too late? That is why I keep asking why aren't manufacturers en masse pumping out hybrids? Why would manufacturers continue to bring out models without hybrid powerplants? Why isn't every ACCord and Civic a hybrid, and not just 1 out of a 100?
Remember: How many hybrids do we estimate will be sold per year when Toyota meets it's goal of hybridizing EVERY car in it's fleet, which it has said it will do?
Like any major technological advance, most things are slow to catch on and expensive in the beginning. Remember when the old IBM XT computers were $5000, for a system that could be had today for about $100? That was 20 years ago. How about portable cell phones that were $3000 and the size of a large brick in 1984 and now are almost the size of a credit card and are $29.95?
The date when Hybrids will have been in the market for 20 years will be 2017. Will hybrid technology decrease in expense by the same rate as computers and cell phones? Probably not, but it is a simple CERTAINTY that it will decrease in cost as it becomes more ubiquitous.
As more people understand that gas prices are NEVER going to go down and stay down, more people will get the news about how cheap it is to keep a hybrid fueled. My HCH has cost me 3.7 cents per mile in fuel over the last 11,477 miles, an average fuel cost of about $43 per month. That's pretty darn low amigos...:)
"Toyota plans to make hybrid power a routine option on most vehicles, something a buyer could choose as casually as deciding on a CD player or sunroof. U.S. production would shorten the pipeline from factory to showroom and make it easier for buyers to order hybrids."
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=CqNHiWeiendK4oenHBxj5Bwf5yMvuB3LVD