I don't understand this obsession with nascar. It is pretty stupid if you ask me. I mean a whole bunch of guys go around a circular track about 500 times and whoever can do it first is the winner. Where is the fun in that? Right now I am in England serving the country, over here they have these things called rally races. They drive modified cars that resemble thier "stock counterparts" a little more then nascar but they race on dirt sometimes tarmac "the street" and have a lot more cool twists and everything. It kinda reminds me of the dukes of hazard.
daniel40, I had always been a road course only fan. I've been to the likes of Sebring, Riverside, Mid-Ohio and Long Beach. Yes, I love F-1 and CART. My wife encouraged me to go to some Winston Cup events. We have a more enjoyable weekend when we go to a NASCAR event. The most exciting race I've ever seen is NASCAR at Darlington and sitting in Pearson Tower at the exit to turn 4. Watching the lines being used and the talent of the drivers was incredible. I can't really remember who won but it was one heck of a race! (My favorite came in second.)
All forms of motorsports can be enjoyable. My favorite is tractor pulls, but I've been known to go to a NASCAR race or two. The excitement comes from the competition itself whether it is roundy-round or road course. NASCAR roots in the south run deep and brand/driver loyalty is like family. I think racing is just a good time and I have never seen such well behaved crowds as at a NASCAR race.
I have always been taught to respect people and their choices. I can't believe some people actually think they can push their "opinions" as being fact and expect to be treated with respect.
The way I see it, anyone who has to disrespect someones choice in vehicle to boost credibility or try to gain respect of their own vehicle choice, is immature and not worth acknowledging.
Why do all these topics have to end in brand wars?
All trucks made today are the leading edge of technology and are about the same as one another in reliability. I have owned Toyotas and they are good trucks, but no better than any of the other trucks out there. I have been to the Tundra topics here and elsewhere. There are unhappy customers to be found and yes, problems with the Tundra. Buy what you like and quit trying to justify your purchase to everyone that doesn't buy the same truck you bought.
If you want to ask me about the problems I have had with Toyota trucks and cars, let me know. I have plenty to share. Why should I rant about them to everyone and claim that Toyota is junk? That is a waste of time and effort. Learn about the experiences of others without hate and disrespect. It makes for a much happier life while we are here.
I agree with you that the technology is high but I don't think it is of much benefit to the reliability or build of automobiles today. I believe that skilled craftsmen and machinists are far more important than computer engineering programs and circuit boards. A knowledgible and experienced workman is the crucial link in the execution in any design. Cost cutting CEO's would rather pocket billions in profit than to reinvest it in a highly trained and motivated workforce.
I have experience with ALL brands because of our company fleet. I can tell you that after getting one of the "shakers" ('00 Z71), I WILL be going back to Toyota. Yes, all brands have their problems, but the Toys are the most problem free by far. The big three had better get off their a$$es or they will be in serious trouble once Toyota starts making a HD version of the Tundra. Most Japanese product exceed the US companies quality because of a basic difference in philosophy when it comes to the initial design. Toyota for instance asks their engineers to build the BEST engine, trans, etc. and work on the cost later. GM, Ford, etc. ask the man to build the CHEAPEST engine trans, etc. and we'll fix, ignore, or just claim the problems don't exist later.
I find the biggest complaint about toyota is the lack of options and silly gizmos. For instance a guy will buy the chevy because the seats have optional heaters. He doesn't even care how well built or reliable it is. Chev owners post that the chevy is superior because it has disc brakes and ABS standard. They don't care about the numerous brake problems or the complete brake failures resulting in lawsuits that have been filed against GM. I'd rather have proven technology that's reliable and safe than a poorly built, high tech nightmare.
Have any of you taken a peek at topic 1367 about the yes, Tundra vibrations? There are plenty of problems with the Tundra that Tundra owners are too proud to eat crow about and let people know about. Would you like me to share the ones that I have personally heard about from a very good friend that works for a Toyota service shop locally??? Naw, that would be very immature and disrespectful of others' choices in vehicle.
Like one person said in another post, Toyota service shops are not lacking work. There are plenty of problems being worked in the Toyota shops. I don't see the Tundra putting any of them out of a job either!
I never said Toyota didn't have problems, but how many here actually have experience with ALL major brands of trucks? I HAVE. SOME 3.0 liter Toy v-6 motors had head gasket problems. The ONLY person I know who had the problem got it fixed under warranty at 52K, and has his warranty for the problem extended to 100K. GM, Ford, Chrysler, would have been OUT of warranty, and they would have told you to take a hike! I've never heard of flywheel problems on any Toy. I slam no brand, but of all trucks in our service fleet, the ONLY ones with 250K plus on the original motors and trans are a '90 one ton dually Toy, and a '94 T100. The 3.0 in the '90 had a head gasket alright, but at 142K! Their only problems are the lack of capacity over the Dodge, Chevy, and Ford trucks and vans. Our guys load 'em to death, causing them all to go through a lot of brakes. Not a single Dodge has made it over 60K on a trans. Everyone knows about the injector problems on '96 and '97 Chevy's. The Ford's transmissions aren't much better than the Dodge's among other things. Nothing is perfect, but the big three will be cryin' the blues when Toyota makes a HD Tundra. Fortunately, this will probably kick everybody's quality up a notch. So get over it. In like for like service, the Toys have fewer problems.
Buddy,I dont care if that Toymota says it is a 1 ton,you are not going to convince me that it does equal work to even a fullsize half ton.Further,unless the owner of this supposed fleet is a moron,he would own nothing but Toymotas if they have truly been that good.I have never had a problem with my tranny in my Dodge,and I don't know anyone who has personally(not even my mothers,cousins,uncle). I must agree with bud light dude,all brands have thier strengths and weaknesses,and they all are probably equally reliable.Conparing a 90 Toymota to a fullsize domestic in a work environment is ludicrous.And by the way I know a guy with a 3/4 ton Toymota.We had to take a load of lumber off his Toy and put it on my Ram because he broke his rusty Toymota frame in half.We have lots of salty winter roads here in NY,and everyone here knows salt and ten year old Toymotas don't live long together.
"The ONLY person I know who had the problem got it fixed under warranty at 52K, and has his warranty for the problem extended to 100K. "
1. Your isolated experiences or mine do not account for all owners experiences. Just like Moparman. People have talked trash on Dodge, but he has personally owned 12 very reliable Dodges. However, people like you will swear they are junk, just because somewhere in your past you had a bad experience with one or you heard from your brother in laws 3rd cousins best friends brother that they are terrible trucks. 2. I have had several repairs over the years well outside the warranty covered 100% from GM. If I had the attitude of other people here have in approaching and dealing with the manufacturer and dealers, I probably would not have gotten the good service I have gotten either. You treat people with respect and you would be surprised with how you are treated in return. Yes, the manufacturers and dealers are out there to make money for themselves and they are not going to cover repairs on well used vehicles or vehicles well outside the warranty in most cases. That is why they offer extended warranties, including Toyota. However, if the repair is something that should not have failed so shortly, and there are circumstances that show you one has properly maintained the vehicle, 9 times out of 10, if you approach the problem as a professional, the dealers and the manufacturer will work with you. I am a firm believer that all truck and car manufacturers will stand behind their vehicles. Go in half cocked and with the attitudes of those I have seen in this topic and I would not blame them for blowing you off.
It all boils down to the fact that we can all tell of individual isolated stories about this that and the other about this junk truck make or whatever. It is all crap. All the trucks made today are top notch, as good as any other. Your Toyota is no more reliable or less prone to failure and human error than any other machine.
Consumer reports may be good for reporting on cars and trucks used for very light duty use, but how many Toyota's are used in construction work or used to tow heavy trailers on a daily basis. I bet I can accurately say....not many. Yeah, Big Bob may use his Tundra to haul gravel and tow his 7,500 lb. horse trailer every day, but he is one of very few who do in comparison to the Big three owners out there that do this both on the job site AND in personal use.
I am the last one to want to go into a brand war and slamming this truck or that or claiming superiority because this truck is better for this use or that, but the talk about Toyotas being superior because of reliability, etc. is getting quite nauseous to say the least. I read all this stuff and I can't help but see people that really don't know anything about the truck they own. All the talk about the dual ohc and 4 valves per cylinder, etc. I would guess that most all the Tundra owners have no clue whether that is actually a benefit or not, just sounds good in the marketing literature.
How many Tundra owners know Auto Mechanics or use their trucks for more than occasional hauling of lumber or pulling a bass boat? How many push their trucks hard for what a truck is intended to do? Really???
You all speak from non-experience. The only moron here is the one who claims his brand is best. I have yet to hear anyone say they have 10 years experience with all brands. The warranty on the big three is 36K, not 60K. No Toyota is rated to do what a 3/4 or 1 ton full size is. The 1 ton I referred to is indeed called a 1 ton and has been overloaded all its life. Actual capacity is obviously not the same as a full size, but out T100 has hauled as much or more than some of the 1/2 ton chevys and fords. There are no isolated stories here. You can talk all you want but the fact remains that given the INTENDED use of the vehicle, the Toys have fewer problems. I'm not talking about trying to load a little truck to the capacity of a full size. This includes ALL problems, from door trim falling off, to trans failures. We don't use many Toys because as I said, the capacity isn't there. You all are the ones showing bias, not me. How many have experience with 100 plus vehicles in the last 8 years? None of you. I traded my supercharged T100 for a '00 Z71, and guess what? I got one of the shakers. The drivers door creaks and pops like my '70 Chevelle never did, and it's starting the steering clunk. The service stinks so far, and at two different dealers than we use for fleet service. I'm not saying that Toyota is best, 'cause their dealers are worse if anything. But if you add up EVERY single problem on every vehicle I have experience with, the Toys come out on top. When you have used EVERY brand in a similar WORK situation for as long, then you can talk all you want. Until then, deal with it.
Call me paranoid, but I've been here before - so before I ask my question, here's the 'legal'.
I am not taking the p*** out of anyone or their truck, I am not slamming Toyota, I am not being sarcastic, and I am not implying anything by this post.
Now a serious question for bg4dg:
I am not aware of a 1 ton Toyota, but I am a bit confused - your post 119 said:
"I slam no brand, but of all trucks in our service fleet, the ONLY ones with 250K plus on the original motors and trans are a '90 one ton dually Toy, and a '94 T100."
but then your post 123 said:
"No Toyota is rated to do what a 3/4 or 1 ton full size is. The 1 ton I referred to is indeed called a 1 ton and has been overloaded all its life."
So what is this truck - is it just called a 1 ton, but not what we all understand a 1 ton truck to be, or did Toyota make bigger trucks in the past? I genuinely though that Tundra was the largest they ever built.
quoting......>>>"You all speak from non-experience. The only moron here is the one who claims his brand is best. I have yet to hear anyone say they have 10 years experience with all brands."<<<
Let me guess. You do, right? Maybe just trying to make your own opinion count for more?
Then you state you traded your supercharged T100 for a Z71. Why? Didn't you say the T100 hauled more than than some of the Chevys and Fords? Surely you weren't expecting more reliability? A nicer truck? Neither one sounds much like a fleet truck to me.
Then you cite some problems with the Z71. Problems that have fixes you can read about in other topics. Funny thing is, I don't recall any posts from you there.
Check out www.wardsauto.com ,The ford 5.4 V8 rated one of the worlds top ten engines,neither the chevy or toyota V8 made it, there's a good article on all 3 engines and why Fords was the best.
I have posted in other discussions. According to the two dealers I was speaking of, there is no fix for the freeway shake. The clunky, squeeking door and steering column have yet to be fixed, because the parts are "backordered" because these are "common" problems. And yes I do have 10 years experience with over 100 vehicles, you don't. The 1 ton I was referring to IS called a 1 ton by Toyota, it DID come with dual rear wheels, and no, it DOESN'T have the payload of a 1 ton fullsize. Like I said, used in their INTENDED capacity, the Toys have had FEWER problems. These trucks may not have hauled as much, but they have probably been loaded BEYOND their rating many more times, and by a larger margin, than any of our fullsize trucks. The T100 was traded because it was my personal, not fleet truck, the lease was up, and I wanted something with a better ride and more comfortable seats. I didn't buy a Tundra because the dealers are jerks and the Tundra is no bigger up front than a T100. The difference is that the T100 never had a problem of any kind for three years, except having to go to TRD to get the supercharger working correctly because of the same idiot dealers. So you see, I have no great love for Toyota, but I'm still waiting to hear from anyone with as much experience with as many different vehicles who can say that they have had better luck with a different brand. This board says that Toyota can't make trucks, and that's BS. If you need to tow 10K pounds, live with a cummins or super duty. If you need to tow 5000, or haul 1500, you don't have three choices, you have four. Some people just can't it when they think something threatens their belief thet THEIR truck is best. What kind of cheese would you like with your whine?
bg4dg - Before you go off about our obvious lack of experience anymore, you may wanna try asking the same questions (about experience with all kinds of trucks) in the Ford Super Duty topic. I believe there are a few people there who own several trucks, if I remember correctly one of them owns a roofing business with trucks of all kinds. If I can remember who they are I'll post their names so you can ask them directly. I used to go there often to read what they have to say. A lot of them are smart people, but they have been putting up about 30 posts a day and I got tired of keeping up. Since you are referring to one-tons anyways, they might be better to ask anyway.
I've yet to visit that discussion. We don't use super duty trucks in our business because we don't need that much truck. Ours are usually HD 3/4 ton or 1 tons with service bodies. (A/C business). The guys carry lots of tools, parts, etc. but only our electrical guys really need the capacity of something like that. I am seriously considering an F-450 for the "pack rat" electrician in our controls department. It all goes back to what I said before. The right vehicle for the job. No use anyone claiming that a Tacoma is crap because it can't haul or tow like a super duty any more than it makes sense to trash the big truck 'cause it won't follow the Toyota off road.
Sorry, I must have confused you a bit. The Super Duty, as referred to by Ford, includes the F-250 and F-350. So, the Ford Super Duty topic is only talking about F-250s and F-350s. So, if you say you use HD 3/4 and 1 tons, you are using what Ford refers to as Super Duties. Unless it is I who is mistaken (which can and does happen on regular intervals), we are talking about the same thing. You said yours have service bodies on them, but the frame should be the same. You might also want to check out the Topics Silverado/Sierra vs. F-150 and Dodge, Ford, Chevy...who wins?, I want to say Rocles is the guy with the roofing business but I am not sure. I'm not saying that you are wrong on your assessment of the Toyota, you were just looking for someone who knew more than we did, and I know they are around here somewhere.
First, I never said I "really" worked my personal use truck. I did drive it hard though, both on and off road. Second, the Z71 had (has) 3 problems within the first 1500 miles while the T100 had none in three years and 40K miles. Third, the Z71 was over 3K MORE than the 4X4 TRD Tundra, so I could have spent LESS. I suspect you are a ******* (fill in the blank) owner, and can't stand the fact that something else might be as good or better than what you own. But you are an expert with more "credibility" than me, 'cause you have driven and owned more trucks right? Tell us all how many you own. Tell us all how you've "really" worked them. Tell us all from your wealth of experience just which is the better truck. What is it you have against Toyota? What is it beyond just your opinion that makes your ****** truck better? My experience with them all would rate the Toys just ahead of Ford and Chevy, with Dodge still behind, but improving. Again, this is taking into account ALL problems or repairs, overall reliability, and long term costs AFTER the warranty is gone and your still using it. You can bash the Tundra if you want, but it's only going to be good for all of us to have another choice and to put the heat on the big three.
Same basic motor. The Land Cruiser uses the same, but in the Tundra, it's tuned for more torque. I think the new GM v-8's will do well next year. The 5.3 in my Z71 is getting better and better as it breaks in. If I can get a dealer to fix its problems, I'd like the whole truck.
I havn't been bashing the Tundra. That is my whole point. I come here to be objective and talk about the Tundra or any other truck. I have nothing against the Tundra. I do consider it another choice in truck if you don't have a heavier truck need. The Tundra just doesn't have the engine options, size, etc. that the other full size trucks have. That doesn't mean I have ever thought it to be junk. I just get tired of hearing about how the Toyota is the only reliable truck and the rest are all junk because Billy Bob's first cousin's brothers friend of a friend had a GM truck and it was junk because he had a problem with it and GM just wouldn't stand behind it and fix it. All GM trucks are junk now. You yourself went on this long winded, said nothing of value, speech about how you are so much more knowledgeable than anybody around because you had this truck and that truck and blah blah blah.
Nobody cares. Lets talk about trucks, with respect for everyones choices, and leave the bashing for the immature children at www.werejerks.com.
You are the only one who bashed anything. Including your smack at GM just now. What is it, a Ford or a Dodge? I don't claim to be knowledgeable, only experienced because of our company fleet. And talk about long winded. You make as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. Are you the one who started this "Toyota is trash" topic? I started on Edmunds to see if others has the same problems as me with my Z71. I posted here because even the topic is BS. Seems like only 1 or 2 people here that don't know that.
1. I didn't start this topic 2. I didn't talk "smack" (whatever that is) about GM 3. I havn't bashed any truck in any topic here. Reprint my qoutes of bashing if you can. I have never claimed ANY truck or car to be inferior. You and your other high school attitude cronies are the ones who started bashing the domestics and claiming superiority of the Toyota's. 4. It is obvious that you are of too immature of an age yet to carry an intelligent conversation about anything, so my posts to you in this regard stop with this post. 5. Even when someone agrees with you, you are too stupid to show respect.
Good luck with your 1 ton Tundra wonder truck. Everyone should agree that it is clearly superior, but only because it is what you chose to buy. Your experiences on the job with "your" fleet of trucks should be all anyone needs to hear about to make a sound buying decision on the Tundra. We can all go puke now.
Hey.....Just cruising along through some different topics and I happened to see my name mentioned. I'm up late going over an intensive bid and I needed the breather!! (Big sucker off Market street needs a new top along with a cooler--I'll probably throw in the Evapco but I digress....)
What's all the commotion going on about trucks now? F-450 for a "pack-rat" electrician? (Must be a new one for me--I've heard of many creative titles in construction but that's new!) No electrician needs anything more than a 1 ton. I'm not talking cable-layers either.
Bg4dg, Too bitter I'd say. Well, I've owned many trucks over ten years with all three major brands. Toyota is a fine company but they need to put a truck out in the real-world for awile before laying supremacy to the construction world. This is with no consideration of any jingoism on my part. I have to wait until I see some feedback on these Tundras before my firm tries them out. I know of Toyotas rep and that is a draw but you knock the domestics a little too hard. I've never had any major problem with my Fords and the Dodges are still holding up. Now, I've had some problems with mid-90 Chevies but I try not to blast that make too much since other products of GM have done well for me.
This topic? I think it was created by Rube. (A known Toyota hater)
Any time you need to know how a 90 F-150 with a I-6 or 95 350 k1500 or 78 F-250 351 (Still running) and other trucks that are abused by a roofing contracting firm--just ask! I'm happy to bore you all!!
I agree with Rocles, "This topic? I think it was created by Rube. (Aknown Toyota hater)". Most of the post say "yea, the toyota ran ok, but I can't stand seat cushings so I got myself a beast that broke everyday".
The bottom line will always be "DID IT GET YOU THERE", and for Toyota you have to admit it does the job. Know as far as likes or dislikes that depends on whether you use your head (am I getting a good return on my investment) or you bottom side (I got to get the biggest and baddest for my tush)...
OK: "All GM trucks are junk now". Is there anything else you need to be reminded of? The reason to consider an F-450 is the amount of weight hauled. Conduit, fittings, wire etc. weigh a lot, even the service bodied '96 K3500 this guy drives squats pretty bad. It goes through a lot of brakes too. The difference between a service company and a roofing company is the mileage. Roofers generally get to the job and are there all day. Same for our construction guys, but not service. The jury is still out on our newest Fords, and yes, the new ones are superduties, but the older ones were not. They seem to be doing well so far. The older '94, '95, '96 dodge vans seem to be the most trouble. All have needed a trans. within 60K. And I bought a Z71, not a Tundra. Post your fax number and I'll send you the build sticker and a copy of my business card if you think I'M the one who's phony. I haven't bashed ANY brand, only defended Toyotas for what they are: good reliable light duty trucks. reddog said "for Toyota you have to admit it does the job." You can't or won't agree with that, so you're the one who is immature. I'll repeat what I said earlier. The big three are going to lose sleep and sales to Toyota when they make a HD Tundra. It will be good for all of us.
All trucks made today can be labeled good, reliable trucks, though. If I remember correctly, someone here said that there is about a 6% chance of getting a Ford lemon and 3% chance of getting a Toyota lemon. Sure, that DOES say that I am 100% more likely to get a bad truck with a Ford, but similarly, there is only a 3.2% chance that a Ford I buy will not be as reliable as a Toyota. Stats is a wonderful way of distorting the truth to suit ones needs. I don't dispute your right to defend the Toyota, just understand that out of one thousand F-150 owners there will only be 32 more people that have troublesome vehicles than out of a thousand Tundra owners. Yes, the Tundra IS 100% more reliable than the F-150. But only 3% of the time will it matter. I agree the Toyota "does the job." By the same token you have to agree that 97% of the time, the F-150 will do the same job too. Look, everyone here defends the truck they own if they like it. Things like higher peak hP, wider powerband, higher peak torque, peak torque at lower rpm, gas mileage, towing/payload capacities, Off-road prowess, available options, available engines, sheetmetal thickness, American pride, frame strength, seat thickness, ergonomics, personal taste, and hundreds of other reasons INCLUDING reliability are things all of us rant about as to why we bought our trucks instead of another. But, in reality, all these trucks are generally fall within a 10% range of each other IN EVERY CATEGORY, reliability included. All it comes down to is what combination fits us best.
After it gets past 100,000 trouble free miles, then you can come up to the table...and say what a great truck or whatever...those that been there know what I'm talking about......
Just to let you guys know I am an electrician and the vehicle that I've mainly used and see other electricans use is the Ford E250 or E350.A lot of contractors use the Ford vans and Ford pickups.They are great work trucks and can take a lot of abuse.
Exactly what I was trying to say SMC. I'm sure every mfg. has made a turd at one time or another. I must say that they all seem to have improved a lot in the last few years.
I agree with what you've said. Very well spoken I may add. This forum has been a delightful diversion! Can't say that I've visited another where I had so many laughs! I drive an F150 myself!
Really though. I don't understand why people can't just admit that what you buy is a choice based on a multiple of things. Reliability is so good with late model trucks now that I really don't think people put as much thought into that anymore. Your chances of getting a bad one are about equal in all makes, including the Toyota.
There are things about all trucks that I like. I don't really think bad of any of them. I just happen to like the GM trucks better than the others "for my need and tastes".
Sure glad people don't go on this one make and model superiority concept with everything they buy. Would be a very boring world to live in not to mention way more expensive without the competition.
Maybe the topic title "should" be something else. I guess if it read "GM can't make trucks that's for sure", I would probably be a little less objective coming in here too.
Not dogging the Toyota's mind you, but do want to make a point in regard to your post.
I have had a little bad experiences with my Tacomas and the camry I owned. I still don't think Toyotas are junk and I have had more problems with the them than I have had with my GM trucks. I push my GM trucks hard too. I have owned two cars and 3 trucks that I have personally taken over 100k of trouble free miles. Two Pontiac Grand Am's went over 100k trouble free. I am on a third Grand Am with 70k miles with zero trips to the service shop. I didn't even put brakes on it until about 5k miles ago along with the tires. Oil and lubes, and filters are the only other maintenance. I have had 2 GMC 1/2 tons that went over 100k miles with zero trips to the shop for repairs. Nothing but the same type maintenance. I have had 1 Chevy truck that had a EGR valve go out at 80k miles. GM replaced it for free under the emissions warranty! Other than that, it went over 100k miles without a repair. That is 3 trucks and two cars that all went over 100k miles without costing me a cent.
My 99 Silverado, admittedly has had a few more problems, but very minor and no more than I have seen on the Tundra topics here or elsewhere. They were all 3 fixed under warranty without hassles. I am very confident that if it had not been rearended at highway speed, it would have gone over 100k without costing me anything too.
BTW: Toyota sells extended warranties left and right. I know, a buddy of mine works for a Toyota service shop here locally. Why is it they sell so many warranties still, if they are so much more reliable than the other trucks. Why are Toyota tech's still in jobs. No loss of work for my buddy. He stays just as busy as the domestic shops and he doesn't do oil changes.
Just wanted to clarify again that your statement of Toyotas being so much more likely to go over 100k miles without troubles is just fish stories.
My 86 Toyota 1Ton pickup is sitting in the driveway with 150,000 miles and as soon as I finish checking the water I'll start on the next 150,000 miles......If you want it in a more basic way, take a look at the present resell value $3,190 vs a 86 Chevy S10 $1,825 or 86 Ford Ranger $1,625..or better yet, look up a toyota pickup in http://www.autotrader.com/,http://www.autoweb.com/ 1990-1995 and see how much they are selling for, same equipment, same MSRP, same region....If you can't believe what your eyes tell you then its time to yank that modem, cut the phone line, and hit the golf links.........
"personal choices" makes the decision in the end. When I was truck shopping, I looked at the 'Big 3', but did not even consider the Toyota. I guess you could call it bigotry. I nixed ALL of them for various reasons (price, equipment, resale, etc). It just made more economic sense for me to drive what I have and then tear it down when it needs a new engine. I'm at 125K now...for a 6 banger F150. I pull a horse trailer too. I've been told a rebuild is in the near future, but honestly, some days it runs like it came out of the showroom, so we will see.
Brand loyalty is hard to overcome. I found all the new trucks (again, I didn't look at the Toyota) to be well made, nicely done interior, and nice driving. The only big complaint I had for all of them was the price. MAJORLY EXPENSIVE.
I'm a Ford bigot, but the latest truck wasn't too impressive to me. Just about all my friends have Fords, GM's, and Dodges. All swear by what they drive. They tend to buy in families too (what Dad bought, I buy). If I were a truck manufacturer, I'd just accept the fact that everyone has brand loyalties and of course their brand gets better service, warranty, etc.
reddog, why are you comparing used 1 ton pricing with used compact pricing? Compare your 86 1 ton Toyota to an 86 1 ton Ford and 1 ton Chevy, not to a compact truck.
My father in law just went to get a new pick-up to replace his 93 F150. He wanted a strong V6, a reg. cab, and a short bed with a specific level of towing package. He ended up geting a new F150 and ordered it exactly the way he wanted it. It cost him just under $19k, good deal.
He checked out the Tundras and didn't care for them. No real big reasons. He didn't like that they were so "loaded up" and that option packages and bed/engine/tranny/cab configurations were so limited. His other car is an Accord, so it's not like he's anti-foreign car. He just didn't care for it. I think that is the crux of the issue as others have said. We buy what we like, and chances are, it will be a good vehicle.
Comments
It is pretty stupid if you ask me. I mean a
whole bunch of guys go around a circular track
about 500 times and whoever can do it first is
the winner. Where is the fun in that? Right
now I am in England serving the country, over
here they have these things called rally races.
They drive modified cars that resemble thier
"stock counterparts" a little more then nascar
but they race on dirt sometimes tarmac "the street" and have a lot more cool twists and
everything. It kinda reminds me of the dukes
of hazard.
I had always been a road course only fan. I've been to the likes of Sebring, Riverside, Mid-Ohio and Long Beach. Yes, I love F-1 and CART. My wife encouraged me to go to some Winston Cup events. We have a more enjoyable weekend when we go to a NASCAR event. The most exciting race I've ever seen is NASCAR at Darlington and sitting in Pearson Tower at the exit to turn 4. Watching the lines being used and the talent of the drivers was incredible. I can't really remember who won but it was one heck of a race! (My favorite came in second.)
Rich
The way I see it, anyone who has to disrespect someones choice in vehicle to boost credibility or try to gain respect of their own vehicle choice, is immature and not worth acknowledging.
Why do all these topics have to end in brand wars?
All trucks made today are the leading edge of technology and are about the same as one another in reliability. I have owned Toyotas and they are good trucks, but no better than any of the other trucks out there. I have been to the Tundra topics here and elsewhere. There are unhappy customers to be found and yes, problems with the Tundra. Buy what you like and quit trying to justify your purchase to everyone that doesn't buy the same truck you bought.
If you want to ask me about the problems I have had with Toyota trucks and cars, let me know. I have plenty to share. Why should I rant about them to everyone and claim that Toyota is junk? That is a waste of time and effort. Learn about the experiences of others without hate and disrespect. It makes for a much happier life while we are here.
"Enough Said"
the newer chevy trucks are totally different
Like one person said in another post, Toyota service shops are not lacking work. There are plenty of problems being worked in the Toyota shops. I don't see the Tundra putting any of them out of a job either!
I must agree with bud light dude,all brands have thier strengths and weaknesses,and they all are probably equally reliable.Conparing a 90 Toymota to a fullsize domestic in a work environment is ludicrous.And by the way I know a guy with a 3/4 ton Toymota.We had to take a load of lumber off his Toy and put it on my Ram because he broke his rusty Toymota frame in half.We have lots of salty winter roads here in NY,and everyone here knows salt and ten year old Toymotas don't live long together.
"The ONLY person I know who had the problem got it fixed under warranty at 52K, and has his warranty for the problem extended to 100K. "
1. Your isolated experiences or mine do not account for all owners experiences. Just like Moparman. People have talked trash on Dodge, but he has personally owned 12 very reliable Dodges. However, people like you will swear they are junk, just because somewhere in your past you had a bad experience with one or you heard from your brother in laws 3rd cousins best friends brother that they are terrible trucks.
2. I have had several repairs over the years well outside the warranty covered 100% from GM. If I had the attitude of other people here have in approaching and dealing with the manufacturer and dealers, I probably would not have gotten the good service I have gotten either. You treat people with respect and you would be surprised with how you are treated in return. Yes, the manufacturers and dealers are out there to make money for themselves and they are not going to cover repairs on well used vehicles or vehicles well outside the warranty in most cases. That is why they offer extended warranties, including Toyota. However, if the repair is something that should not have failed so shortly, and there are circumstances that show you one has properly maintained the vehicle, 9 times out of 10, if you approach the problem as a professional, the dealers and the manufacturer will work with you. I am a firm believer that all truck and car manufacturers will stand behind their vehicles. Go in half cocked and with the attitudes of those I have seen in this topic and I would not blame them for blowing you off.
It all boils down to the fact that we can all tell of individual isolated stories about this that and the other about this junk truck make or whatever. It is all crap. All the trucks made today are top notch, as good as any other. Your Toyota is no more reliable or less prone to failure and human error than any other machine.
Consumer reports may be good for reporting on cars and trucks used for very light duty use, but how many Toyota's are used in construction work or used to tow heavy trailers on a daily basis. I bet I can accurately say....not many. Yeah, Big Bob may use his Tundra to haul gravel and tow his 7,500 lb. horse trailer every day, but he is one of very few who do in comparison to the Big three owners out there that do this both on the job site AND in personal use.
I am the last one to want to go into a brand war and slamming this truck or that or claiming superiority because this truck is better for this use or that, but the talk about Toyotas being superior because of reliability, etc. is getting quite nauseous to say the least. I read all this stuff and I can't help but see people that really don't know anything about the truck they own. All the talk about the dual ohc and 4 valves per cylinder, etc. I would guess that most all the Tundra owners have no clue whether that is actually a benefit or not, just sounds good in the marketing literature.
How many Tundra owners know Auto Mechanics or use their trucks for more than occasional hauling of lumber or pulling a bass boat? How many push their trucks hard for what a truck is intended to do? Really???
Get real.
I am not taking the p*** out of anyone or their truck, I am not slamming Toyota, I am not being sarcastic, and I am not implying anything by this post.
Now a serious question for bg4dg:
I am not aware of a 1 ton Toyota, but I am a bit confused - your post 119 said:
"I slam no brand, but of all trucks in our service fleet, the ONLY ones with 250K plus on the original motors and trans are a '90 one ton dually Toy, and a '94 T100."
but then your post 123 said:
"No Toyota is rated to do what a 3/4 or 1 ton full size is. The 1 ton I referred to is indeed called a 1 ton and has been overloaded all its life."
So what is this truck - is it just called a 1 ton, but not what we all understand a 1 ton truck to be, or did Toyota make bigger trucks in the past? I genuinely though that Tundra was the largest they ever built.
here is the one who claims his brand is best. I
have yet to hear anyone say they have 10 years
experience with all brands."<<<
Let me guess. You do, right? Maybe just trying to make your own opinion count for more?
Then you state you traded your supercharged T100 for a Z71. Why? Didn't you say the T100 hauled more than than some of the Chevys and Fords? Surely you weren't expecting more reliability? A nicer truck? Neither one sounds much like a fleet truck to me.
Then you cite some problems with the Z71. Problems that have fixes you can read about in other topics. Funny thing is, I don't recall any posts from you there.
I think you are a fraud. How pathetic!
I suspect you are a Tundra owner posting crap about the others to help you justify why you spent more money for less truck.
Nobody cares. Lets talk about trucks, with respect for everyones choices, and leave the bashing for the immature children at www.werejerks.com.
Get real.
2. I didn't talk "smack" (whatever that is)
about GM
3. I havn't bashed any truck in any topic here.
Reprint my qoutes of bashing if you can. I
have never claimed ANY truck or car to be
inferior. You and your other high school
attitude cronies are the ones who started
bashing the domestics and claiming superiority
of the Toyota's.
4. It is obvious that you are of too immature of
an age yet to carry an intelligent conversation
about anything, so my posts to you in this
regard stop with this post.
5. Even when someone agrees with you, you are too
stupid to show respect.
Good luck with your 1 ton Tundra wonder truck. Everyone should agree that it is clearly superior, but only because it is what you chose to buy. Your experiences on the job with "your" fleet of trucks should be all anyone needs to hear about to make a sound buying decision on the Tundra. We can all go puke now.
What's all the commotion going on about trucks now? F-450 for a "pack-rat" electrician? (Must be a new one for me--I've heard of many creative titles in construction but that's new!) No electrician needs anything more than a 1 ton. I'm not talking cable-layers either.
Bg4dg,
Too bitter I'd say. Well, I've owned many trucks over ten years with all three major brands. Toyota is a fine company but they need to put a truck out in the real-world for awile before laying supremacy to the construction world. This is with no consideration of any jingoism on my part. I have to wait until I see some feedback on these Tundras before my firm tries them out.
I know of Toyotas rep and that is a draw but you knock the domestics a little too hard. I've never had any major problem with my Fords and the Dodges are still holding up. Now, I've had some problems with mid-90 Chevies but I try not to blast that make too much since other products of GM have done well for me.
This topic? I think it was created by Rube. (A known Toyota hater)
Any time you need to know how a 90 F-150 with a I-6 or 95 350 k1500 or 78 F-250 351 (Still running) and other trucks that are abused by a roofing contracting firm--just ask! I'm happy to bore you all!!
Roc
The bottom line will always be "DID IT GET YOU THERE", and for Toyota you have to admit it does the job. Know as far as likes or dislikes that depends on whether you use your head (am I getting a good return on my investment) or you bottom side (I got to get the biggest and baddest for my tush)...
Really though. I don't understand why people can't just admit that what you buy is a choice based on a multiple of things. Reliability is so good with late model trucks now that I really don't think people put as much thought into that anymore. Your chances of getting a bad one are about equal in all makes, including the Toyota.
There are things about all trucks that I like. I don't really think bad of any of them. I just happen to like the GM trucks better than the others "for my need and tastes".
Sure glad people don't go on this one make and model superiority concept with everything they buy. Would be a very boring world to live in not to mention way more expensive without the competition.
Maybe the topic title "should" be something else. I guess if it read "GM can't make trucks that's for sure", I would probably be a little less objective coming in here too.
I have had a little bad experiences with my Tacomas and the camry I owned. I still don't think Toyotas are junk and I have had more problems with the them than I have had with my GM trucks. I push my GM trucks hard too. I have owned two cars and 3 trucks that I have personally taken over 100k of trouble free miles.
Two Pontiac Grand Am's went over 100k trouble free. I am on a third Grand Am with 70k miles with zero trips to the service shop. I didn't even put brakes on it until about 5k miles ago along with the tires. Oil and lubes, and filters are the only other maintenance. I have had 2 GMC 1/2 tons that went over 100k miles with zero trips to the shop for repairs. Nothing but the same type maintenance. I have had 1 Chevy truck that had a EGR valve go out at 80k miles. GM replaced it for free under the emissions warranty! Other than that, it went over 100k miles without a repair. That is 3 trucks and two cars that all went over 100k miles without costing me a cent.
My 99 Silverado, admittedly has had a few more problems, but very minor and no more than I have seen on the Tundra topics here or elsewhere. They were all 3 fixed under warranty without hassles. I am very confident that if it had not been rearended at highway speed, it would have gone over 100k without costing me anything too.
BTW: Toyota sells extended warranties left and right. I know, a buddy of mine works for a Toyota service shop here locally. Why is it they sell so many warranties still, if they are so much more reliable than the other trucks. Why are Toyota tech's still in jobs. No loss of work for my buddy. He stays just as busy as the domestic shops and he doesn't do oil changes.
Just wanted to clarify again that your statement of Toyotas being so much more likely to go over 100k miles without troubles is just fish stories.
1990-1995 and see how much they are selling for, same equipment, same MSRP, same region....If you can't believe what your eyes tell you then its time to yank that modem, cut the phone line, and hit the golf links.........
Brand loyalty is hard to overcome. I found all the new trucks (again, I didn't look at the Toyota) to be well made, nicely done interior, and nice driving. The only big complaint I had for all of them was the price. MAJORLY EXPENSIVE.
I'm a Ford bigot, but the latest truck wasn't too impressive to me. Just about all my friends have Fords, GM's, and Dodges. All swear by what they drive. They tend to buy in families too (what Dad bought, I buy). If I were a truck manufacturer, I'd just accept the fact that everyone has brand loyalties and of course their brand gets better service, warranty, etc.
He checked out the Tundras and didn't care for them. No real big reasons. He didn't like that they were so "loaded up" and that option packages and bed/engine/tranny/cab configurations were so limited. His other car is an Accord, so it's not like he's anti-foreign car. He just didn't care for it. I think that is the crux of the issue as others have said. We buy what we like, and chances are, it will be a good vehicle.