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Comments
Has the big T found a cure for the vibrations yet?
If so what is the solution?
Rich
My personal belief is that I'm going to trade my '00 either for a C series GMC or a '01 1500 or 2500. Have test drove the four doors...completely different animal. Especially the ones coming out now...only problem is the $6K worth of mods....
http://www.pacific-audio.com/performance/discussion.html
I was looking for a full size SUV or 4dr pickup.Ford was out of the competition,because,well,I hate Fords in general,and really dislike the F150/Expedition's looks.It's something about the round wheelwells,but I can't quite figure out what I hate about the looks.It looks to me like a toy unless it has huge tires on it.I did drive someones 5.4 equipped f150,and it drove ok,but I think a GM 1500 with the 5.3 is faster.My new one seems to be,and is getting stronger everytime I drive it.
So,it came down to a Ram,or a Chevy/GMC.I ended up with the GMC,so far,all is perfect.If it holds up anywhere near as well as my 82 and 88 blazers did,I will be a very happy return customer.If it's a dud,well,there's Dodge.Or,who knows,maybe Nissan's "full size",will REALLY be full size!
Tundra is the finest truck ever built
What a can of worms you just opened. It isn't the finest. As for the 32 valve V8 big deal. What 4 cam engine didn't have great HP numbers????? Trucks are trucks and need TORQUE, besides the big 3 can easilt out HP and out torque da runt.
If you ask me toyota copied Ford and turned the headlights upside down, but not to be too obvious they turned the grille upside down also. Who wants to pay full size price for a untested midsize? I guess O.J.'s lawyers were responsible for the ad campaign, its slick, but everyone knows the truth.
Dan.
Flynnb said - "It drives like a Cadillac" - nuff said.
as far as car like, that is a typical tundra driver, they want a car not a truck.
And as far as those tests that have toyotas beating the Big 3, if you look at the test vehicle the big 3 had their smallest V8's, while the toyota had the top of the line motor in their trucks, not to mention the Big 3 trucks were equipped with really tall gears like 3.53, instead of gears that can get you going like 4.10's which Chevy offers.
Now, tell me why the Tundra is so good when a Silverado can tow 2000 more lbs.?
And if it was the finest, it would be outselling Ford, Chevy or Dodge, which it is not even close to doing.
Now lets look at base 4wd Supercab, Tundra and Dakota
Dakota Stock Motor: 175hp V6 @ 230 ft lbs torque
Tundra Stock Motor: 190hp V6 @ 220 ft lbs torque
LOL Dakota has more torque than tundra!
Max Payload for Dakota=1800 lbs, Tundra=1680
Looks like the Tundra is not only not fullsize, it is sub compact pickup.
wow way to go toyota, lol what a hunk of junk
Glad you can settle for less and still be happy. Most people have much too high of expectations. Guess thats why so many more people buy the Chevy, Ford and Dodges. You must have a great deal of character to make such sacrifices.
Rich
not be satisfied with ride quality the same as a
cement truck!<<<
Unless you wanted a truck that could actually haul cement?
The Tundra x-cab has a payload of 1,532 and would match up against the Dakota's 1,800 payload.
In all match ups the Dakota out hauls the Tundra.
The Tundra actually out hauls the Quad Cab. The Quad Cab is only 1450 lbs max payload.
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Specifications/Dodge/Dakota/2000.asp
We need a Shakerado vs. Dakota topic. They are more comparable.
After my Volvo went only 120,000 before the block cracked, and my Honda went only 117,000 before an engine rebuild, I decided to reward Chrysler by purchasing their thoughtfully designed 1984 minivan. After 392,000 miles, to date, on the original engine, clutch and transmission (with absolutely no repairs), I didn't hesitate to return to purchase a '00 Dakota Quad Cab this year.
anyway, it looks like bamatundra is still claiming the tundra outhauls the Silverado yet this silverado has about 2,000 more lbs of towing capacity?
Secondly, to tinindiana, first, if you look at a new Silverado the Engine Transsmission are made in USA, and if you happen to take a look at the front end (I was lifting a silverado) you would see all those parts say Made in USA right on them, wow! And the UAW is one of the largest Unions in America so obviously a lot of Cars are made right here, like the majority of silverado's. BTW GM is building a new SUV plant in Michigan (have to go fin the article for more details)
As far as [non-permissible content removed] cars in my family, I have relatives that own a 87 Subaru (on its second engine with 136,000 on it), a 88-90 around there Toyota 4wd wagon, that is starting to burn oil at 142,000, and he just replaced water pump, rest of my family buy's only American
oh and the relatives that own these [non-permissible content removed] cars have since purchased a Chevy p/u and Ford p/u as their second and third cars respectively.
As far as Demositc Mediocrity,
lets talk about my immediate family new car history
83' Ranger with 165,000, original belts and hoses, only thing replaced has been ignition boxed, truck has been used to tow. No oil burn
87' Escort, 192,000, no oil burn, replaced Fuel Pump (boy those electronic ones are a pain)
90 Ford Bronco, 140,000 have replaced anything yet, used off-road and to tow
98' Escort, 36,000, to close to tell yet but no quality probelms yet!
My truck that has been in the family since new, 81' Chevy C10, 326,000, second engine put in in 96', Original transmission, never rebuilt
used for towing, tree service business and daily driver. No RUST
You take a chance with any of them. What a person must ask themselves is how much is a "possible" reduction in risk worth in initial cost and higher maintenance? I don't see a noticeable reduction in risk with the imports, but some say different. Either way, you end up paying more for the import overall. That is just plain facts. Also, for every import sucess story, there are is a success story for the domestic vehicles. I would say moreso because the domestics make more vehicles. Same goes for reported problems. There will be more reported with domestics because they make and sell 15 to 1 over the imports.
My sister bought into that import garbage and had to get a new trans on her camry at 120k. So much for reliability.
That must be where they make the money, replacement parts, compare any big 3 part to any [non-permissible content removed] part, USA 1 import ZERO.
I thought Chrysler's minivans were automatic?
power window trcks died.
windshield mysteriously cracked
tape player quit
transmission died in less than 80k
he bought this truck new and has since sold the piece.
Thank goodness I never bit on a F'd Over Rebuilt Dodge.
As a proud Chevy owner i'd suggest against the F-150 and go for the [non-permissible content removed].
sadly enough to say.
Your blanket statements are uneducated personal experiences and have nothing to do with actual statistics of the possibility to get a bad vehicle in any make.
I have had bad Chevy trucks, Ford trucks, and even import trucks. If everyone used your logic, pretty soon they would not be able to buy any make of vehicle and would be stuck walking.
Please be careful about handing out personal experiences as factual evidence. They are night and day.
As an owner of a fleet of trucks--that actually work rather than pull a fishing boat twice a year--your assertions are off base and unfounded. Anyone can end up with a lemon and your comment about "rebuilt dodge" only further displays your ignorance.
When it all comes down too it, principles like Deming's built Japan up and made it all it is today. The Japanese had very little part in the reputation they have for quality today. It was the hard work of the Americans that built Japan back up after they tore them down during the war.
None of this has beans to do with the topic at hand.
Yes, the Americans played a major role in rebuilding Japan after the war...they were not responsible for Deming's decision to go to Japan nor the Japanese acceptance of his philosophies.
Yes, it has to do with a topic that says "Toyota can't make Trucks Thats for sure!!! " As Toyota has earned the Deming Award for quality, therefore rebutting the topic. If you look closely at Toyota's marketing...they are building trucks to sell in the categories that are popular which are the 1/2 tons and compacts. Whether their 1/2 tons fit your needs does not matter. What matters is that they have sold trucks in a category that they have not done as successfully before. If someone buys a Toyota Tundra, that is one less person buying a full sized Big Three. Toyota is chipping away at the Big Three and in my opinion not doing too bad a job. BTW, I own two GM products. A '00 Silverado and a '00 Denali. I support American products as long as they fill my needs. Maybe if GM had adopted Demings philosophies, you wouldn't have dumped your Silverado....
I dumped my Silverado because of first model year quality issues that ALL makes experience in some degree. Toyota has them, GM has them, Ford has them, and Dodge has them. It is my own fault to have bought a first model year truck. Ford has worked the issues out of their model change now. Almost 4 years later, their trucks are pretty bullet proof. The Silverado will be too....eventually. That doesn't make the Silverado a bad truck, and it doesn't make the Toyota a better truck. Already the Toyota has had it's own bugs to deal with. Just because you don't hear about as many on these boards, doesn't mean they don't exist. Toyota sells about 1/15th the amount of trucks sold, so you will hear less problems from them.
I still stand behind what I said. Japan only is today what it is, from all the Americans did to build them back up, and from all the free hand outs we continually give them in interest free Enterprise loans, gov't subsidies, and the like.
If the US was bottle fed for over 50 years, we would be better off too!
I noticed that people will ask if that Toyota, Honda, or Nissan is made in the USA or Japan...Japan being the preferred origin point for manufacturing regardless of pricing due to tariffs. Their belief is that anything made in the USA, even using parts from Japan, does not have the same quality as assembled in Japan. I guess the best example of this is the movie Gung Ho. One of the things that the Japanese companies do differently from the US is the daily exercise as witnessed in the movie. This was discontinued only recently. In the movie, you could also see the differences in company attitude though exaggerated, one could not help but notice the attitude of the American union workers and their me, me, me attitude versus the company oriented attitude of the Japanese workers.
The current economic depression that Japan is emerging from has shaken the large manufacturers such as Toyota to reevaluate their Theory Z based system. They found out that they couldn't guarantee lifelong job security. Without that, the basis of their quality control programs were doomed to failure.
Bottom line...Americans thought the war was over in 1945...the Japanese corporate philosophy was based on the Book of Five Rings by MM. Almost similar to the Art of War by Sun Tsu. The American car manufacturers were under seige and didn't even know it until it was almost too late. It was at that point that they sought out Deming. Is the war over? Don't know...while I agree that Japan had overwhelming support from the US, I still disagree with your statement that "The Japanese had very little part in the
reputation they have for quality today. " Ask any line worker up to the CEO of any major Japanese Corporation on the effort it takes to win a Deming Award.
Not support American made products...I most certainly do...2 GM trucks made in Indiana and Texas...plus 5 Ford vans (company owned)and 1 '91 Nissan truck that refuses to die. If you want to question someone about supporting US made products...talk to GM who opens factories in Mexico and Canada to avoid paying UNION workers and thus build cheaper vehicles...
Yuppie...think not. My personal vehicle that I drive every day is a black on black '00 Silverado. The '00 Denali is the wife's choice. I would rather drive a Vette or a Viper or at least a Yukon XL 2500 (hate the Tahoes). Like I said, I bought it but don't drive it. I thought it was pretty lame to buy a '00 Denali based on the old C/K with the 5.7. Actually, yuppies drive Escalades...
I never said that the Japanese build better cars..My post said "Japan being the preferred origin point for manufacturing regardless of pricing due to tariffs. Their belief is that anything made in the USA, even using parts from Japan, does not have the same quality as assembled in Japan." Note in the second sentence states "their belief" doesn't say my belief.
U.S. companies are profit driven. How do you build profit? either charge more or cut costs...GM has done both...they have raised the prices of Yukons, Tahoes, Silverado's to unheard of prices...and yet open factories in Mexico. Go figure that one...and while you are at it...write a letter to the CEO of GM about supporting Americans...
The only point that I was making with dbhull was that he did not credit the Japanese for the quality of their products today, which in my opinion is incorrect.
I'm sure it may seem that I do not support American made products when actually I was not agreeing with dbhull initial post. BTW, buying American is fine but it is not always possible because finding 100% made in USA is just about impossible. Actually when adding my company and personal vehicles, I have spent close to $170,000 on American made vehicles in the last couple of years...how much did you spend on American made vehicles?
The Chrysler Minivans were available with stick shift transmissions from 1984 to 1995, but only in the short wheelbase.
anyway
what next?
Can anyone say "ARAB OIL EMBARGO", which sparked gasoline lines, odd-n-even gas buying days based on your license plate #, which led to heightened interest in fuel efficient cars. Couple this when the BIG 3 were making a plethora of merely adequate automobiles (the Ford Fairmont, the Cadillac Cimmaron, the Chrysler K-car etc, etc) with hit or miss quality control.
Imports offered a new choice for consumers, which decimated the U.S. auto industry, even putting Chrysler on the brink of bankruptcy, needing a government bail out. Believe it or not, this carnage ended up being GOOD FOR THE US AUTO INDUSTRY! They were forced to revitalize their plants and vastly improve the quality of the product that they were turning out.
Without the import threat, we would not have the fine offering of domestic vehicles that we enjoy now, nor would our U.S. auto industry be as globally competitive. If we want to have a thriving U.S. auto industry employing lots of Americans and boosting our economy, they need to put out a great product.
Without your (as you said) "stupid [non-permissible content removed]", the U.S. auto industry would not be performing as well as it currently is, unemployment would be greater, and our overall economy including the stock market would suffer. Simply by all Americans adopting a "buy American only" philosophy is actually a great way to destroy the American economy in the long run, because we will become globally unviable as our manufacturers become complacent to churn out merely adequate products.
No need to worry about our economy, as we are making lot's of awesome cars, and comsumers have better choices with the big three than ever before.