I snapped a couple of 5MP still shots of my Bonatti Grey HSE on my driveway if anyone wants them. I can reduce if you want, or send them full size. Email me if interested. Not action shots, but not bad for wallpaper...Jeff
The medium says "I see a minivan in your future." I'm so, so sorry. :-) I personally wouldn't want a 5 and under child sitting in the LR3 third row regularly.
I agree with trm2...the rear-facing seats (even when they are the small infant sized seats) are not possible to pass over to get to the center.
While the LR3 is a great 7-seater SUV, it is not minivan-llike in any way. A minivan is more versatile when it comes to kids in carseats.
Now, personally I would not have much issue with having a kid in the 3rd row regularly...I don't believe it is any less safe back there than it would be in the back (3rd row) of a minivan. Neither has much space behind it to work as a crush zone. In fact, I would think the LR3 may be safer in the 3rd row given both the side curtain that few if any minivans have in the 3rd row, and the very heavy steel box that an LR3 seems to be vs a relatively 'tinny' box that a minivan is. Although I really have no idea if it is truly safer.
I would suggest either setting the 3 car seats straight across the 2nd row or the new newbies (my twins turned the big 1 today!) in the second row, with the 3rd child in a belted carseat in the third row...and one outside seat folded in the second row for access to the kid in the 3rd row. Either that or get an Excursion, Expedition, Suburban, Escalade, etc. (yikes, don't like any of them!)
I was very close to writing a fat cheque for an LR3, but reading this forum has put the brakes on that FAST. We are going to buy an Volvo XC70 as well, and that Edmunds forum seems to support that decision.
While I am in love with the LR3 design/feature set and the test drive, I just can't handle anticipated aggravation from flaky electronics. I think I'll buy something else to hold me till next model year and then hope that all this junk has been worked out by then.
Comments? I am new to LR... would LR be pretty good about rolling in design fixes for these issues, or do these problems tend to plague the model line for some time?
actually we are buying the XC70 for my wife. She liked that better than the allroad quattro.
The LR3 would be for me, but I am pretty put off by all these eqpt failures. I think I'll look at the allroad for myself for a year or two until the LR3 is debugged. Why can't good engineers get most of this stuff right the first time?
Well, the XC70 is much different...a wagon with significantly less space and seating versatility. I can't really speak for the reliability of either, but nothing on this forum has made me anxious about my incoming LR3. I've had/have 2 Audis and a VW over the past 3-4 years and if one were to read forums dedicated to those cars, one might think all of them are horribly unreliable. They've been awesome. Reliability is not a major priority for me...it is easy to get repairs done, and my dealer gives loaners. I'm certain some Volvos turn out to be profoundly reliable...others are lemons...all manufacturers build some lemons.
I would not be put off getting the LR3 (I am !) because of the few problems reported by a few people on this forum - if you are afraid of the LR, you need to be afraid of ALL vehicles. My last two LR's (99 & 00 DII's) were xtremely "bad" (the 99), and supremely "good" (the 2000). Out of 9 Mercedes', all but 2 (an 82 & 04) were "bad". Out of 5 Toyota's, 2 were "good", and 3 "bad". Same for BMW, and a number of other makes I've owned (about 32 total so far).
I've looked at all the SUV's for sale, and NONE do anything for me EXCEPT the LR3 (and the DII)- LR's go to the brain & heart and tend to stay there. Should my 05 LR3 turn out to be a POS -(when I finally get it)- I'll buy another the next year - so, if you like it - go for it !!!
One thing I have learned by reading these message boards is that every auto has their share of problems. I have researched the best vehicle for me and my family and the LR3 wins for various reasons, over the Lexus GX470, VW Touerag, and Volvo xc90). It came down to space more than anything else. Plus, I have always wanted a LR. After test driving this past Friday, my wife wants it. I would agree with the posters that have decided to wait until some of the "bugs" are worked out.
I am going to wait mainly because every dealer around here wants MSRP. Basically until supply catches up with demand. My '03 Expedition is more than adequate for now even though I want this vehicle tomorrow.
On a side note, the Rosen DVD player through the dealer is way too costly IMHO. Has anyone found an alternative that would still work through the stereo system and mount under the rear AC /Heater controls? I pulled up Best Buy and they have several units that would appear to work put I just haven't put forth the effort to talk to them about it. Opinions?
I think you're kind of all missing the point. The point is not so much whether any given car is reliable. MOst are; some are not, and they will tend to be discussed here. The point is whether the car is basically good (it's great) and whether the dealer and manufacturer handle such issues well.
My new LR3 has been in the shop almost two weeks now while an intermittent suspension fault was diagnosed by LR Canada techs and while parts were ordered (any day now). But Land Rover handled it well: My dealer service manager gave me his Range Rover to drive mewanwhile, and Land Rover are sending me to the Quebec driving school for a weekend.
That's why I recommend a "buy" for this car. I presume you've read my road trip review in more detail: if not, you can surf over to http://www.mvw.net/lr3/roadtest.php to read it.
Michael, thx, I did read your report. Given just your report, I would still buy in. However, all this stalling, suspension, electronics stuff got me dizzy. It's the sheer amount and consistency of the problems that worry me. I have the 1st year S500 (2000) and could have expected alot of design bugs there as well. The only major problem was a faulty fiber optic xmitter that failed twice and shut down phone/dvdnav. Other couple of things, but service was so good, I got over it, with the car doing everything else very well.
So I understand 1st year anomalies. I am a chronic early adopter and understand that consequences of such. But I know all too well the pain level of having chronic problems versus the relatively bearable pain of many bugs that however once fixed, stay fixed.
Which situation is the LR3 in? Once you take the car in for however long they have it, does the dealer repair action permanently fix the issue??? Or are you back and back and back for the same thing.
So I went and test drove an SE yesterday. I love the vehicle. However, slowing to a stop at the bottom of a medium grade slope, the LR3 stalled. I turned to the sales person and asked what was up, and he replied, maybe we're out of gas. We had a 1/4 tank. I restarted and finished the test drive, but I have to admit that as much as I want the LR3, I have serious reservations. Has Land Rover acknowledged this is an issue (other than the pre-production model which was supposed to be fixed in production models)? If so, have they determined what the issue is? If not, I think it is very disconcerting that they would ignore what seems to be much more than an anomaly.
While I agree that no vehicle is perfect and that nearly every new vehicle (especially a first year model) is bound to have problems, the implication that every brand is equally problematic is naive. Many automotive consumers value dependability above all else, witness Toyota/Lexus sales figures over the past dozen years.
Minor glitches and software issues are annoying, but still relatively minor. A vehicle that stalls, on the other hand, is potentially dangerous and unacceptable in my opinion.
At three weeks and 500 miles, we brought my in-law's SE in to service because the driver's side airbag light was staying on. One mitigating factor was the fact that I got to see my first Bonatti Grey model. Easily the most handsome vehicle in it's class on the road today!
well one thing is for sure... all test drives should include as steep a slope as is conveniently available. I think I am going to ask to take it our for a day, and leave whatever security deposit they want. If I like it I will buy it, but if it stalls or otherwise materially flakes out in a massively long drive day, I can return it at my discretion. Sounds like a deal no dealer would accept. But how else can we be sure not to be on the recipient side of a lemon vehicle?
Thank you for taking the time explaining what I should do. I really appreciate your assistance. I guess I am really weary about this new car, always excited to get it back from the repair and felt beaten yet FURIOUS by the fact that this issue still exists. I don't even feel like this is a new car anymore. I have been patient on the first and second time that it was in the shop. By the third time I was really concern, therefore I got the customer service manager to involve in the repair process. In my mind, this third time they really did something to the car but like you said, on the repair form they explained on the third repair visit, they simply indicate "duplicate the problem, test drive, update ECU, test ok". no detail steps were given.
The fact that they told me this issue is new and unseen in other vehicle repairs really bugs me. This time I contacted the LR Corp. customer relations rep. and had asked him to find out what is really happening/repair history before I bring in my car again for repair. The guy informed he would need two days and should call me back by tomorrow. So I am really taking this step by step and for sure I will bring my car in for repair but before then I really have no faith to let it stay in the shop for some simple ECU update repeatitively.
Wonder if you know Lemon process lawyer fees are responsible by the consumer or the manufacturer?
Thanks again for taking the time in concerning our issue.
That is assuming the car you want to buy is the car they will let you take for a long test drive?
Had my HSE for 10 weeks with over 9,000 miles and no problems. Problems are aired on the forum. You are unlikely to see loads of posts singing praises all day.
Some things LRNA do are quite strange though. Their 3rd party marketing company called for an in depth survey at 10.15pm last night! (From New Mexico) she thought New England was a state? They wont be calling again!
Which situation is the LR3 in? Once you take the car in for however long they have it, does the dealer repair action permanently fix the issue??? Or are you back and back and back for the same thing.
My car is still at the dealer's: almost two weeks now. The reason is that I asked LR to be really sure they actually find and fix the error this time. They sent a LR Canada tech who spent a few days on it; I am told he found a chafed wiring loom and as soon as the part arrives from the UK (which should be this week) I'll get the car back. Fixed once and for all I presume!
On Jan 10th 2005, I bought a new LR3 SE from Land Rover Darien. They are owned by miller auto group of Greenwich CT. I made a big mistake by not checking these message boards first. Within the first 200 miles I had my first stalling problem....on a downhill coming to a stop light. The Dealership had me pick the car up two days later reassuring me it was fixed. Within 250 more miles the LR3 stalled again in the fast lane on 95 going 55 MPH during rush hour. Now I am afraid to drive it at all - much less let my family even get near the truck. Both Land Rover and the Dealership are not doing the right thing.(Thats a nother story) I at least thought Land Rover would stand behind their product and replace my LR3 with one that was safe and would not break down..but that does not seem to be the case. (Its very easy - If the car is broken than the Land Rover should take it back) I trusted them to sell me a car that worked. Im sure Wal-Mart would...! Well I still find it hard to believe that Motor Trend gave the LR3 Truck of the Year. At the end of the day I dont even want my money back...I just want a Truck that works and for my family to feel safe in it. Is anyone else having this problem?
John, that is the key question. The car under test drive has to be the one you are buying, only to be returned if one of more of these failures are encountered within the 24 hr test.
The dealer probably never would accept this, which they wouldn't if they felt that a number of vehicles would come back with 20 miles on the odo and dirt on the carpets.
Nope, buying an LR3 appears to be a real crap shoot. My conclusion is most of the cars are fine, but some 3-5% have some common design failure(s) crop up. I'll bet some sort of wiring reliability problem will be revealed as the common culprit for a bunch of these problems. What's worrisome is that if that's true, then for those who don't have any problems currently, perhaps the problems are lurking just beneath the surface and almost ready to pop to the surface???
"...the LR3 stalled again in the fast lane on 95 going 55 MPH during rush hour."
I think that's the first report of stalling at speed. How did you handle it? I assume you could shift to neutral and restart? Also, could you elaborate a bit more about LR Darien? That's one of the dealers we were considering using. By the way, what did they think was wrong the first time it stalled?
I still haven't had any of these issues. Do I feel left out yet? Nope. ;-)
Some of the reported failures may have similar symtoms, but it's no guarantee they are all the same problem. Regretably, as the LR3 is a new vehicle... there is not a lot of "service history" the service technicians can use. If problems are not obvious/intermittent (no direct diagnostics failure, etc.), it can take time to diagnose and troubleshoot.
grommet, if the stalling and suspension problems, to take two commonly reported bugs, are largely caused by different failure mechanisms, that's really bad news. That means lots of debug time per incident... I am hoping against hope that soon we'll hear about some magical set of fixes that take care of 90% of these problems. The day I hear that is the day I buy. Before then, wow, am I ever leary. I know you're happy, but I don't want to be one of the hapless lemon owners. I like this vehicle so much that I would own one if I was sure mine wasn't a lemon currently, even though the threat was there it would turn into one.
Well just so everyone knows who the wiring harness or buss supplier is here you go!
LEONI Wiring Systems UK (LEONI) is part of one of the world’s largest manufacturers of wire, cable and wiring systems. With over 70 years experience in the design, manufacture and supply of automotive, electrical and electronic distribution systems, the company boasts an impressive client list, including Land Rover, MG Rover, Aston Martin, Bentley, JCB and Caterpillar.
Got to admit that MG Rover, Aston Martin, Bentley won't have many units out there to fail. And we are not all driving JCB's and Caterpillars, but a breakdown on those would not be pleasant for the dealer. Big boys toys!
For what it is worth, if you have a problem with stalling then make a big stink at the dealership and demand action, a loaner of comparable equipment, big safety problem & stay on it. "Squeaky wheel gets the oil"
After three weeks of gawdawful waiting.... Its HERE!! HSE7 Silver/Black, rear a/c, tow, cold pkg, heavy duty. Pick up Friday... YIPPIE! To heck with the stalling & suspension probs!!
I purchased my LR3 HSE and picked it up on Dec 23rd and I adore it. I read these forums, and yeah, there are a few trucks with a few issues, however, this is a VERY VERY VERY small sample out of the 10's of thousands of the LR3's they have sold. I almost bought Cayenne S, but opted for the LR3 for many reasons. One of the main reasons is that the Porsche service is getting bad reports from the boards, and there have been MANY recalls and technical service bulletins.
While I do not expect trouble, I know that the dealer will take care of me, and that FORD has a LOT at stake with this truck, and that if I am reasonable I will be taken care of.
Well, I don't know the real sales numbers, but I suspect there have not been tens of thousands sold...yet. I believe I remember that LR hopes to sell ~20,000 LR3s per year in the U.S., but judging crudely that I see more RS 6s on the road around here (only ~1500 made) than LR3s...I doubt there have been more than 5000 sold yet (I suspect the true numbers are available somewhere). While I agree that these forums are airing grounds for problems...looking for solutions and that likely not 'every' LR3 is plagued with these problems...it is CLEAR that there are a few MAJOR problems with the LR3 that LR needs to address quickly. The stalling issue is the most significant and potentially the most dangerous. The suspension problems are probably the next biggest deal...and the other random electrical glitches are probably less important. There are far too many reports of the same problems...significant ones...to ignore or chalk up to 1st year glitches. That said, though, I'm still getting mine...and had no stalls in the 225 miles or so I put on the loaner they gave me.
of course, the rest of the world (outside NA) may not participate in this or other Internet forums (as much), and so we may not understand the total magnitude of these problems.
I haven't heard any complaints about the car other than these particular failure modes, so apparently all the rest of the deal is solid.
My HSE has nearly 3000 miles on it and I have yet to experience any of the significant problems reported by some others here. Well, not permanent anyway... read on.
Once again, I have to say this is the finest vehicle I have ever owned. Those contemplating one and in fear of the problem reports, please understand that IF there were major design flaws in the LR3, I would doubt there would be as many trouble-free, nearly exultant reports as we have heard.
So, how should we reconcile these almost "Love It/Hate It" conflicting reports? I may have a partial answer...
Last week, I left one morning when the temperature was about 15°. I drove about 3 miles to get a paper and when I got back into the LR3 to start the vehicle, I was presented with many of the error codes reported here for suspension faults. Controls were unresponsive and the car would not allow me to drive. Interestingly, my navigation system reported that the route I had put in that morning could not be completed due to low fuel (which was not the case at a 3/4 full tank) AND the DVD would not operate at all.
Naturally, I got very concerned, thinking I had was experiencing a general system failure. I turned off the ignition, removed the key, waited about a minute, then restarted the car. There were then no system errors, but the DVD was still not operating... almost as if it wasn't receiving any power, but the DVD unit lights still functioned. The navigation worked, but still reported the low fuel warning.
I then drove to my destination, about 1 hour away. I went into my meeting and after the LR3 sat for about an hour, EVERYTHING was back to normal when I restarted. No system errors, no DVD problems, no navigation problems.
So, what I am to make of this? Serious suspension problems? Overall electrical system failures? No, I think I just experience a "computer glitch" similar to what we see sometimes in our personal computers that is cleared with a system restart.
The LR3 has a complex system of computers that provide all of the great features we love and I think that the embedded operating systems sometimes just need to be restarted under certain environmental conditions. (Anyone using Windows?)
I cannot help but believe that some of the reports we've read MAY be similar in nature. When I experienced my errors, the car reacted as though there were major mechanical malfunctions. However, they were, I believe, software in nature and not related to mechanical design flaws.
Now, obviously, we need to consider that if these (i.e., stalls, suspension faults) are in fact software issues, they must be addressed and not dismissed. A stall at speed from software is just as bad as one from fuel system faults...
However, I think a software solution is easier to find (a software update?) and, I think, provides us all a little more peace of mind.
For me, I'll be ready to "reboot" whenever I see a problem with my LR3 just as I do with my personal computer. This may just be a reality of modern vehicles. (I guess this also means we'll also have to soon be watching for viruses and hackers... I wish Apple made cars! :-) )
I hope this helps some of you in diagnosing your problems....
Doctrix, I would agree with many of your points. I get the same error situations on cold mornings, switch off, wait a moment & restart & all ok! Some of the suspension errors on cold (very cold as in -9 Deg F) mornings I believe are the result of a build up of ice under vehicle getting on suspension areas. Suspension doesnt want to move or cant due to ice buildup. When I'm down south in warmer climates I get nothing!
I believe the whole buss is fibre optic so it has to be a spot on connection (everywhere)to work. Some equipment items are dealer fitted and I'm told that a memo went out to all dealers to check, recheck & make sure everything checks out before releasing vehicle. Its all "fly by wire"
More I read from you owners, the more I am confident there's a non-trivial number of vehicles that exhibit largely the same propensity to fail with the same symptoms. The cause could be software failure or wiring reliability. Why LR's design engineers can't take one of the sick vehicles and just nail the real point of failure is what's puzzling me.
I sent a note to LR corporate asking them to peruse this forum, as if they haven't already, and respond to me why I should ignore and go ahead and purchase one anyway. The auto-responder promised 48 hours response. This was Tue nite. They have till tonight to respond... let's see what they say.
so I am up here in the Northern Cal Bay area, and there are several HS coming available, fully loaded, and several with dealers down in LA. So if you're Cal based, the cars are definitely available and being discounted from MSRP.
Well - my car is in the shop with a wiring fault that caused intermittent total suspension failures. Land Rover Canada has been looking at my car (for almost two weeks now).
I just spoke with the service manager: they did find corroded and broken wires in the wiring harness (they had to remove it and cut it open to see this). No idea how that could have happened (the harness is supposedly sealed), so this was perhaps a production error. Anyway, the new harness is, or will shortly be, in, so I may get my car back by the weekend - fingers crossed!
Oh man that blows!! I know the HSE's are in short supply but my Chattanooga dealer tracked me down one in three weeks after plunking down a deposit. Granted they only promised 'two months' they found one and arranged a dealer trade and had it three hours after calling to confirm with me. I had three ext preferences, black only interior and must have heavy duty and got a loaded HSE7, more than I needed, but oh well. These things come in in waves when literally the boat comes in and it sounds like to me your dealer isn't too motivated, unless you have some sort of crazy configuration ordered. I know my dealer was talking to their LR rep twice a week regarding my order... I was not even raising a stink, I told myself I would give them a month and after that they would be thinking 'restraining order!' heh heh heh
When mine was towed in to shop early Jan for oil pressure warning light on, it took service depart about two days to locate and fix the problem. The root cause was said to be a wire corroded and emitting false signals. As an effort to prevent similar wire corrosion problem from recurring, they relocated the roof drainage pipe behind passenger foot well. To service engineer's credit, the problem did not recur.
I don't think anybody would be on this board if they weren't an LR3 fan. However, as Tso says, I really think Land Rover needs to acknowledge they have a design flaw and they need to correct it quickly or sales and customer perception will suffer. All of the posts from owners about "I have had no problems...this only happens to 3-5% of the cars...etc." seem to be defending their purchase. I am totally jealous of LR3 owners and I want one. However, throwing out these statistics is ridiculous. The problem was noted in a review of the car in a preproduction problem and Land Rover was quoted as saying it would be addressed in production models. It obviously hasn't and Land Rover is now silent on the issue. It happened to me on a test drive- the odds of that happening don't support the theory that this is a minor problem.
Purchased an LR3 in november... 4500 mi later and all is well, nothing but smooth sailing. i love the car, very flexible design (allows for large storage when skiing, xtra room for kids when picking up from school),its big but not huge in size, great in the snow, very smooth ride, very masculine truck/car...other than gas milage (which i knew going in) the LR3 is a delight to own. Looked at Volvo, Toureg, Audi A6, Mercedes M500, already own 2001 Land Cruiser...
took another test drive this AM. Dealer did the little tour of the lot over the obstacles and slopes. PRetty impressive little demo. I almost fell into his lap while sideways on the 45deg (seems like less than 45 btw looking at it) slope.
Anyway, against all better judgement and Consumer Reports recommendation, I decided to put money down on one and hope for the best. I passed up Audi allroad, Lexus, Toyota, VW Toureg, GMC, basically everything to settle on the LR3.
I'll definitely post my comments. Delivery is 3/6. BTW, my dealer has several of the LR3s on the lot. None are fully loaded, which is what I wanted. Dealers in LA are getting fully loaded LR3's in all the time.
I am negotiating on an SE with towing package. In addition to paying for the package they want me to pay $375 for a Class III receiver and $87 for electrics. Does this sound correct? For those with the Towing Pkg didn't you get a reciever? If not, what did you get?
Where in NC are you? I talked to two dealers, Charlotte and Greensboro, and neither were willing to come off MSRP on a HSE. I just figured they wouldn't honor the A plan. Also, what about friends and family?
Comments
At least not with rear-facing car seats.
I have two rear-facers which I put side by side, leaving the seat behind the driver empty for access to the 3rd row (and more legroom for me).
When they were on the sides, no human could get to the middle seat, up or down.
While the LR3 is a great 7-seater SUV, it is not minivan-llike in any way. A minivan is more versatile when it comes to kids in carseats.
Now, personally I would not have much issue with having a kid in the 3rd row regularly...I don't believe it is any less safe back there than it would be in the back (3rd row) of a minivan. Neither has much space behind it to work as a crush zone. In fact, I would think the LR3 may be safer in the 3rd row given both the side curtain that few if any minivans have in the 3rd row, and the very heavy steel box that an LR3 seems to be vs a relatively 'tinny' box that a minivan is. Although I really have no idea if it is truly safer.
I would suggest either setting the 3 car seats straight across the 2nd row or the new newbies (my twins turned the big 1 today!) in the second row, with the 3rd child in a belted carseat in the third row...and one outside seat folded in the second row for access to the kid in the 3rd row. Either that or get an Excursion, Expedition, Suburban, Escalade, etc. (yikes, don't like any of them!)
While I am in love with the LR3 design/feature set and the test drive, I just can't handle anticipated aggravation from flaky electronics. I think I'll buy something else to hold me till next model year and then hope that all this junk has been worked out by then.
Comments? I am new to LR... would LR be pretty good about rolling in design fixes for these issues, or do these problems tend to plague the model line for some time?
thx for any advice.
But if you want to buy a TRUCK to get DIRTY, buy the Land Rover.
I can only imagine taking the Volvo off-road which is where the Disco3/LR3 is designed to go.
The LR3 would be for me, but I am pretty put off by all these eqpt failures. I think I'll look at the allroad for myself for a year or two until the LR3 is debugged. Why can't good engineers get most of this stuff right the first time?
I'm certain some Volvos turn out to be profoundly reliable...others are lemons...all manufacturers build some lemons.
The Brits DESIGNED it break down!
I've looked at all the SUV's for sale, and NONE do anything for me EXCEPT the LR3 (and the DII)- LR's go to the brain & heart and tend to stay there. Should my 05 LR3 turn out to be a POS -(when I finally get it)- I'll buy another the next year - so, if you like it - go for it !!!
I am going to wait mainly because every dealer around here wants MSRP. Basically until supply catches up with demand. My '03 Expedition is more than adequate for now even though I want this vehicle tomorrow.
On a side note, the Rosen DVD player through the dealer is way too costly IMHO. Has anyone found an alternative that would still work through the stereo system and mount under the rear AC /Heater controls? I pulled up Best Buy and they have several units that would appear to work put I just haven't put forth the effort to talk to them about it. Opinions?
My new LR3 has been in the shop almost two weeks now while an intermittent suspension fault was diagnosed by LR Canada techs and while parts were ordered (any day now). But Land Rover handled it well: My dealer service manager gave me his Range Rover to drive mewanwhile, and Land Rover are sending me to the Quebec driving school for a weekend.
That's why I recommend a "buy" for this car. I presume you've read my road trip review in more detail: if not, you can surf over to http://www.mvw.net/lr3/roadtest.php to read it.
Cheers
Michael
I have the 1st year S500 (2000) and could have expected alot of design bugs there as well. The only major problem was a faulty fiber optic xmitter that failed twice and shut down phone/dvdnav. Other couple of things, but service was so good, I got over it, with the car doing everything else very well.
So I understand 1st year anomalies. I am a chronic early adopter and understand that consequences of such. But I know all too well the pain level of having chronic problems versus the relatively bearable pain of many bugs that however once fixed, stay fixed.
Which situation is the LR3 in? Once you take the car in for however long they have it, does the dealer repair action permanently fix the issue??? Or are you back and back and back for the same thing.
Minor glitches and software issues are annoying, but still relatively minor. A vehicle that stalls, on the other hand, is potentially dangerous and unacceptable in my opinion.
At three weeks and 500 miles, we brought my in-law's SE in to service because the driver's side airbag light was staying on. One mitigating factor was the fact that I got to see my first Bonatti Grey model. Easily the most handsome vehicle in it's class on the road today!
I think I am going to ask to take it our for a day, and leave whatever security deposit they want. If I like it I will buy it, but if it stalls or otherwise materially flakes out in a massively long drive day, I can return it at my discretion.
Sounds like a deal no dealer would accept. But how else can we be sure not to be on the recipient side of a lemon vehicle?
Thank you for taking the time explaining what I should do. I really appreciate your assistance.
I guess I am really weary about this new car, always excited to get it back from the repair and felt beaten yet FURIOUS by the fact that this issue still exists. I don't even feel like this is a new car anymore.
I have been patient on the first and second time that it was in the shop. By the third time I was really concern, therefore I got the customer service manager to involve in the repair process. In my mind, this third time they really did something to the car but like you said, on the repair form they explained on the third repair visit, they simply indicate "duplicate the problem, test drive, update ECU, test ok". no detail steps were given.
The fact that they told me this issue is new and unseen in other vehicle repairs really bugs me.
This time I contacted the LR Corp. customer relations rep. and had asked him to find out what is really happening/repair history before I bring in my car again for repair. The guy informed he would need two days and should call me back by tomorrow. So I am really taking this step by step and for sure I will bring my car in for repair but before then I really have no faith to let it stay in the shop for some simple ECU update repeatitively.
Wonder if you know Lemon process lawyer fees are responsible by the consumer or the manufacturer?
Thanks again for taking the time in concerning our issue.
Had my HSE for 10 weeks with over 9,000 miles and no problems. Problems are aired on the forum. You are unlikely to see loads of posts singing praises all day.
Some things LRNA do are quite strange though. Their 3rd party marketing company called for an in depth survey at 10.15pm last night! (From New Mexico) she thought New England was a state?
They wont be calling again!
My car is still at the dealer's: almost two weeks now. The reason is that I asked LR to be really sure they actually find and fix the error this time. They sent a LR Canada tech who spent a few days on it; I am told he found a chafed wiring loom and as soon as the part arrives from the UK (which should be this week) I'll get the car back. Fixed once and for all I presume!
Michael
The dealer probably never would accept this, which they wouldn't if they felt that a number of vehicles would come back with 20 miles on the odo and dirt on the carpets.
Nope, buying an LR3 appears to be a real crap shoot. My conclusion is most of the cars are fine, but some 3-5% have some common design failure(s) crop up. I'll bet some sort of wiring reliability problem will be revealed as the common culprit for a bunch of these problems. What's worrisome is that if that's true, then for those who don't have any problems currently, perhaps the problems are lurking just beneath the surface and almost ready to pop to the surface???
I think that's the first report of stalling at speed. How did you handle it? I assume you could shift to neutral and restart? Also, could you elaborate a bit more about LR Darien? That's one of the dealers we were considering using. By the way, what did they think was wrong the first time it stalled?
Some of the reported failures may have similar symtoms, but it's no guarantee they are all the same problem. Regretably, as the LR3 is a new vehicle... there is not a lot of "service history" the service technicians can use. If problems are not obvious/intermittent (no direct diagnostics failure, etc.), it can take time to diagnose and troubleshoot.
I like this vehicle so much that I would own one if I was sure mine wasn't a lemon currently, even though the threat was there it would turn into one.
LEONI Wiring Systems UK (LEONI) is part of one of the world’s largest manufacturers of wire, cable and wiring systems. With over 70 years experience in the design, manufacture and supply of automotive, electrical and electronic distribution systems, the company boasts an impressive client list, including Land Rover, MG Rover, Aston Martin, Bentley, JCB and Caterpillar.
Got to admit that MG Rover, Aston Martin, Bentley won't have many units out there to fail. And we are not all driving JCB's and Caterpillars, but a breakdown on those would not be pleasant for the dealer. Big boys toys!
For what it is worth, if you have a problem with stalling then make a big stink at the dealership and demand action, a loaner of comparable equipment, big safety problem & stay on it. "Squeaky wheel gets the oil"
Its HERE!!
HSE7 Silver/Black, rear a/c, tow, cold pkg, heavy duty.
Pick up Friday... YIPPIE!
To heck with the stalling & suspension probs!!
While I do not expect trouble, I know that the dealer will take care of me, and that FORD has a LOT at stake with this truck, and that if I am reasonable I will be taken care of.
http://homepage.mac.com/fbaer
you can see my truck on a frozen lake at a land rover club ice event.
While I agree that these forums are airing grounds for problems...looking for solutions and that likely not 'every' LR3 is plagued with these problems...it is CLEAR that there are a few MAJOR problems with the LR3 that LR needs to address quickly. The stalling issue is the most significant and potentially the most dangerous. The suspension problems are probably the next biggest deal...and the other random electrical glitches are probably less important. There are far too many reports of the same problems...significant ones...to ignore or chalk up to 1st year glitches. That said, though, I'm still getting mine...and had no stalls in the 225 miles or so I put on the loaner they gave me.
I think these forums are a caution, and are a good guide. They can also teach you what to look for and what questions to ask.
I took the leap, and i love mine!
I haven't heard any complaints about the car other than these particular failure modes, so apparently all the rest of the deal is solid.
Once again, I have to say this is the finest vehicle I have ever owned. Those contemplating one and in fear of the problem reports, please understand that IF there were major design flaws in the LR3, I would doubt there would be as many trouble-free, nearly exultant reports as we have heard.
So, how should we reconcile these almost "Love It/Hate It" conflicting reports? I may have a partial answer...
Last week, I left one morning when the temperature was about 15°. I drove about 3 miles to get a paper and when I got back into the LR3 to start the vehicle, I was presented with many of the error codes reported here for suspension faults. Controls were unresponsive and the car would not allow me to drive. Interestingly, my navigation system reported that the route I had put in that morning could not be completed due to low fuel (which was not the case at a 3/4 full tank) AND the DVD would not operate at all.
Naturally, I got very concerned, thinking I had was experiencing a general system failure. I turned off the ignition, removed the key, waited about a minute, then restarted the car. There were then no system errors, but the DVD was still not operating... almost as if it wasn't receiving any power, but the DVD unit lights still functioned. The navigation worked, but still reported the low fuel warning.
I then drove to my destination, about 1 hour away. I went into my meeting and after the LR3 sat for about an hour, EVERYTHING was back to normal when I restarted. No system errors, no DVD problems, no navigation problems.
So, what I am to make of this? Serious suspension problems? Overall electrical system failures? No, I think I just experience a "computer glitch" similar to what we see sometimes in our personal computers that is cleared with a system restart.
The LR3 has a complex system of computers that provide all of the great features we love and I think that the embedded operating systems sometimes just need to be restarted under certain environmental conditions. (Anyone using Windows?)
I cannot help but believe that some of the reports we've read MAY be similar in nature. When I experienced my errors, the car reacted as though there were major mechanical malfunctions. However, they were, I believe, software in nature and not related to mechanical design flaws.
Now, obviously, we need to consider that if these (i.e., stalls, suspension faults) are in fact software issues, they must be addressed and not dismissed. A stall at speed from software is just as bad as one from fuel system faults...
However, I think a software solution is easier to find (a software update?) and, I think, provides us all a little more peace of mind.
For me, I'll be ready to "reboot" whenever I see a problem with my LR3 just as I do with my personal computer. This may just be a reality of modern vehicles. (I guess this also means we'll also have to soon be watching for viruses and hackers... I wish Apple made cars! :-) )
I hope this helps some of you in diagnosing your problems....
Paul.
I would agree with many of your points. I get the same error situations on cold mornings, switch off, wait a moment & restart & all ok!
Some of the suspension errors on cold (very cold as in -9 Deg F) mornings I believe are the result of a build up of ice under vehicle getting on suspension areas. Suspension doesnt want to move or cant due to ice buildup. When I'm down south in warmer climates I get nothing!
I believe the whole buss is fibre optic so it has to be a spot on connection (everywhere)to work. Some equipment items are dealer fitted and I'm told that a memo went out to all dealers to check, recheck & make sure everything checks out before releasing vehicle. Its all "fly by wire"
it from?
I have mine on order since Oct/30, and I just
heard that it wont be in til Mid March.
This is the 4th time I am getting pushed.
Why LR's design engineers can't take one of the sick vehicles and just nail the real point of failure is what's puzzling me.
I sent a note to LR corporate asking them to peruse this forum, as if they haven't already, and respond to me why I should ignore and go ahead and purchase one anyway. The auto-responder promised 48 hours response. This was Tue nite. They have till tonight to respond... let's see what they say.
I just spoke with the service manager: they did find corroded and broken wires in the wiring harness (they had to remove it and cut it open to see this). No idea how that could have happened (the harness is supposedly sealed), so this was perhaps a production error. Anyway, the new harness is, or will shortly be, in, so I may get my car back by the weekend - fingers crossed!
Michael
Oh man that blows!! I know the HSE's are in short supply but my Chattanooga dealer tracked me down one in three weeks after plunking down a deposit. Granted they only promised 'two months' they found one and arranged a dealer trade and had it three hours after calling to confirm with me. I had three ext preferences, black only interior and must have heavy duty and got a loaded HSE7, more than I needed, but oh well. These things come in in waves when literally the boat comes in and it sounds like to me your dealer isn't too motivated, unless you have some sort of crazy configuration ordered. I know my dealer was talking to their LR rep twice a week regarding my order... I was not even raising a stink, I told myself I would give them a month and after that they would be thinking 'restraining order!' heh heh heh
Their are many dealers out there that will work with you on A Plan pricing which amounts to a 9.2% discount off retail.
Anyway, against all better judgement and Consumer Reports recommendation, I decided to put money down on one and hope for the best. I passed up Audi allroad, Lexus, Toyota, VW Toureg, GMC, basically everything to settle on the LR3.
I'll definitely post my comments. Delivery is 3/6. BTW, my dealer has several of the LR3s on the lot. None are fully loaded, which is what I wanted. Dealers in LA are getting fully loaded LR3's in all the time.
Fingers hopelessly crossed!
http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/LR3/Accessories.htm
It's (obviously) included in the Towing Package.
If you are curious on the standard and optional features, the LR3 site is fairly accurate.
Where in NC are you? I talked to two dealers, Charlotte and Greensboro, and neither were willing to come off MSRP on a HSE. I just figured they wouldn't honor the A plan. Also, what about friends and family?
Thanks ahead.
citystang, "Ford Mustang: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #58, 24 Feb 2005 10:40 am
Steve, Host
Special pricing. A-Plan = Ford Employee, X-Plan = Partner, Z-Plan = Ford Retiree. It's up to the dealer if they want to participate in the program.