Correct. I don't think Land Rover has a concept of "holdback". Audi, BMW & Porsche doesn't either... to my knowledge. I'm sure there are forms of incentives, though.
Anyway, most "true cost" discussions are irritating. Dealers are a business, just like Land Rover. They aren't there to give product away at cost.
I have a Disco II (had a Disco I as well; both trouble-free), and I'm interested in the LR3. Questions: 1) I have the Land Rover swing-away bike carrier which inserts into my rear tow receiver. Will I need the tow package on the LR3 to use this bike carrier? 2) Does either the tow package or the heavy-duty package permanently reduce the rear clearance under the vehicle? Thanks for your help.
Do you know any NAV System model which will fit in LR3 nicely? I did buy without NAV System. Now I would like to install after Market one. Please advice. Thanks-
marlboroman, contact a local installer and see what your options are for GPS. As you can't replace the stereo head unit in the LR3, there is no simple "all in one" solution. If you don't want a custom install, you'll need to stick with a portable solution.
To your response,here is my experience with 3 BMW's, 2 Jeeps and a Mercedes on dealers cost vs dealer invoice. For many years there were only "two" prices we as buyers had to deal with the sticker and the dealer invoice, which dealers referred to as their cost. You make an offer the dealer pulls out his invoice from the factory on that model and says here is my cost and so the barganing process began. Then say 5-6 yrs ago another pricing scheme comes into the play, the "true dealer" cost. Dealer cost is the true bottom line cost to the dealer for a vechile after factory rebates back to the dealer for such things as volumes sold, highest customer survey rating, advertising, floor space or even new show room facilities. True, the commissioned salesperson doesn't know the bottom line net cost , but the fleet mgr as well as the sales mgr, and general mgr do. So get their names before you visit a dealer on any brand vechile. WE bought a Mercedes last fall for my parents from a high volume dealer in the Valley(So. Ca.) he pulled out his invoice and said here is my invoice, never saying this was his cost, I asked to see the print out on his true net cost on the car, he smiled and did another print out and there was $2,500 difference. WE split the difference. so dealers still use the term dealer invoice to imply that is their cost in the car/truck and in all my experiences it isn't if you are dealing with a high volume dealer. So getting a car/truck at invoice is usually a good deal but don't let the dealer lead yu to belive that is his "cost" as it isnt' anymore.
I don't think you will get anywhere near dealer net cost on an LR3 as they are new and hot in perception, but if the problems continue and no solutions in sight who knows.
I am sitting here with a Ford A Plan Pin # and cash in hand to buy a LR3, no trade in, no nothing , no credit no lease just wite out a check, cash deal, for a LR3 at dealer invoice and the postings by so many people who have taken the time to share their experiences have caused me to reconsider other options or wait 6 months.
Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to post your comments on LR3. The "only" reason I considered the LR3 is Ford's public statments on it's commitmment to the new series of LR's and the new billion dollar plant in the UK with an emphasis on quality and production standards. (See Ford's Int'l Exec. comments last yr. in Busines Week). But the the selling point on buying a new yr. re-design production SUV was LR's own ads and current web page, stating ,The LR3 subjected to a development & testing plan covering over "4 million miles" on "five" continents.
Then a quote by LR Chief Program Engineer.
13 continents and 3 US cities, and none of the continuing postings by current owners of stalling, suspension problems were ever noticed??? How can this be possible, if the 4mm statement is correct and not marketing BS. Why didn't some of the current problems show up in 4 MM miles of testing'???On a lesser important note, you would think one of the techs in the LR3 would write on their clip board, maybe should put lock on glove box, mabye a lock on gas filler opening and if LR3 is really an off road SUV, people will go to deserted areas ,beaches,mts. etc, and a thieft protection on glass breakage maybe should at least be an option if not standard. They build a $50+ off road SUV then cut back on the small things.
Anyway, I have a Ford A Plan, dealer invoice cost, but price now is not the issue it's realibility and the 4mm comment on testing is usless to me, I am sure to those of you whohave had all the problems posted as well, but I ask 4 million miles of testing and no problmes to correct before mass production to the people paying $$$$.
It's hard to disagree with your sentiments. However, give the unpaid early adopters a year or two to wring the bugs out of what has the potential to be a really fine vehicle, and it should be safe to buy an '06 or '07 model!
"It is a little bit tricky, too. If you choose mud, sand or rock crawl, the system will remember and keep the vehicle in that setting for about six hours before returning it to the general setting.
And if you keep the LR3 in an "inappropriate setting," the owner's manual warns that you can reduce the durability of the suspension and drive systems and "impair the vehicle's response."
...Knob twist tames any landscape
Though it may be overkill for some, the Land Rover LR3 SE adjusts to a variety of driving surfaces.
Was looking for the review, but I seem to remember at least one review that did indicate a stall during testing. LR indicated that they were aware and would fix? Can anyone find this review?
"Downside: Computer glitch on tested pre-production models led to several brief engine stalls on steep hill climbs. Land Rover engineers said the matter will be corrected with new sensors in production models."
"Why didn't some of the current problems show up in 4 MM miles of testing'?"
They probably did. I imagine quite a few problems came up, which is to be expected in development. Four million miles sounds like a lot, but consider that if LR sells 10,000 vehicles, after an average of 1000 miles each you have 10 million "real world" test miles. These guys (and gals) are the beta testers!
I don't understand your reply, so we buy a 4mm tested SUV from LR/Ford and let the bugs work work out in next year or so. Will You and your loved ones be on the new AirBus Double Decker airplane next year?? With your response, let the bugs work out.If LR and it's claims of 4MILLION miles of testing and all the problems posted some one is not telling the truth, LR or all the people with their postings. I want someone from Ford or LR to adrress this issue, either 4 mm miles of tests and no problems or else the tests
and the drivers were false.
No offense to you but 4 mm in ads and the problems posted by owners on this web. Again help me understand
The reason why I raised this issue is that Land Rover dealers do not have holdbacks (as the Host pointed out), advertising or other kickbacks that most other manufacturers have so I was interested in your comments that LR dealers true cost being lower than the invoice. Comments like yours that are not based on facts lead to misconceptions and untrue expectations for people looking to buy a car. There are indeed incentives to dealers for things such as service loan vehicles, but that is a different issue all together.
1. You will need to have the tow receiver. The Factory Tow Package includes this, but if your are looking at buying an LR3 without it, you have fit it as a dealer installed accessory. Your current bike carrier "should" fit, but take it to your dealer and ask to try it for certain.
2. Tow Package, the factory option does not affect ground clearance. What is attached to the receiver could. I am 99% certain Heavy-Duty Pack will not affect rear clearance as I don't think the larger tire would restrict your departure angle.
Alpine make a Nav that has a screen that fits perfectly inside the space where the Factory Nav goes. I don't know the name of the system/screen but can get it if you would like. Their is an aftermarket installer in Nor. Cal. Not sure if I can give you his info or if it breaks Forum rules. This system works off a remote and the map display is OK, but nothing like the Factory system. Not Touchscreen or Voice Activated. At the end of the day it is a matter of budget. This system costs about $2500, but if you have enough money, anything can be done.
Aftermarket installers were given a date of March to have the same Nav as is in the LR3, just without the off-road display. The only problem is due to the demand for HSE and Nav models exceeding LR expectations, LR have probably increased their orders with the supplier so the March date may be pushed back.
There are a lot of Aftermarket people doing this in Nor. Cal. Try contacting several local companies.
Where did this statement of 6 hours before returning come from? In my experience with the car in these modes, it has returned to normal when disengaged.
It makes sense to me that an inappropriate setting will reduce the prime performance of the car. Driving the car in Rock Crawl mode continuously on the road would not do the car any favors.
Don't you think aircraft have any problems and glitches or is it just the LR3?
There is no way LR would come up with a specific number for the amount of miles the vehicles have done in testing if it were not true. Why that exact number? Why make the claim if some statistician could not work the numbers out? Just because the vehicle was tested extensively does not mean the vehicles were tested and did not develop faults nor does it mean the vehicles were released with LR expecting 100% reliability. You can have extensive testing and still have problems. Think of what problems could have developed if they have done less testing. Maybe they should have done 5 million or 6?
Perhaps both LR and the posters are telling the truth?!
Lots of good info on this board. I am really torn in what direction I want to go in purchasing a new vehicle. I have weighed all options and still come up with no definitive answer.
I am considering the following vehicles: LR3, Volvo XC90, Volkswagon Touerag and Lexus GSX 470. The LR3 suits my family's needs the best, cargo area, 7 passenger, etc but the problem is the closest dealer is about 75 minutes away which is a concern. We have both the Volkswagon and Volvo dealership in town and obviously a Toyota dealership can work on a Lexus. One thing I have learned reading through ALL these posts is that all the SUVs have problems. BTW, I have test drove any of these but I looked at the Touerag and the XC90.
I would welcome any comments from posters that have gone through the same decision and what led you to the vehicle you ended up with. Thanks ahead.
I once again want to extole the greatness of the LR3 and my dealer in Tulsa. I took my Toyota 4x4 to my LR dealer yesterday to get some stuff done that the Toyota dealer could not satify me on, and LR Tulsa did a wonderful job - the Tech's are absolutely the best bunch of guys ever. While there, they let me have another LR3 to drive while I was waiting for the Toyota - and GOD - what a great vehicle. It performed flawlessly and showed absolutely no signs of any problems. The terrain response acts very quickly going from one setting to the other, the turning circle is amazing, the ride, the engine, the seating - all perfect. I can't wait to get my Tonga HSE.
The sales staff is just as great as the tech's. While there, another owner from Arkansas was there - he drives to Tulsa just to get his LR serviced. They have a number of SE's ready to go but have only one black/black HSE. If anyone is close to this dealer, it would pay you to drive there, even if it is several hours...
I want to thank the participants on this board for all the good info. And a nod to calbrit in particular for his insight : ) This forum is a very valuable tool.
If you're considering this truck, I say find a dealer you like and jump in! I can't wait to get off the pavement.
"I don't understand your reply,so we buy a 4mm tested SUV from LR/Ford and let the bugs work work out in next year or so........Again help me understand"
If you re-read my reply, you'll see that I agreed that your premise that four million miles of testing that should have turned up the problems experienced by some owners here.
I then suggested that a practical solution to your dilemma would be to wait a year or two until the bugs had been worked out.
I didn't say that life should be like this, because in an ideal world it clearly shouldn't. However, I was trying to give a practical rather than a philosophical answer!
I took delivery of my HSE7 on Jan 31. I had a different radio problem - my Nav Unit screen and Radio Backlight stayed on afte turning the vehicle off and removong the key - screen and backlight would stay on for 30 minutes or so.
Dealer had to replace the radio and a power relay switch to fix the problem.
Thanks for your informative reply. I noted that on the LR factory accessories list, the bike carrier for the LR3 has the same model number as the one listed for the Series II, so it seems it will work with the factory tow package. My concern on the Heavy Duty package was the larger tire hanging down; perhaps I'll check the clearance at the dealer.
"Tested for 4 million miles" doesn't say that faults found were reengineered and fixed , just that the milage sum of several preproduction trucks reached 4 million miles.
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Regarding the issue of proximity to a dealership, I am in a similar situation to you. I am more than 21 miles from a Land Rover dealership and, yes, it is a concern. However, proximity doesn't guarantee you anything. I am 4 miles from the VW dealership, so I was very interested in the Toureg. First my wife went over. The salesman told her that he knew very little about the vehicle. Yet he fumbled with the car’s computer for more than a half hour trying to get the radio to work. He wasted her time. So, I went back with her. Different salesperson this time and during the course of the test drive we learned that he had only been with the dealership for about a week. Rather than trying to find us an expert to talk to, he also wasted our time. He even gave us misinformation telling us that he had the color we wanted (walked all the way to the back lot to discover that they did not). In addition, I have heard from others that their service department is lacking in skills to service this complex vehicle (got that from a VW rep at the LA Auto Show). Regardless, I must tell you that the test drive was very useful. I figured out that I was much more comfortable in the LR3! I am still test driving other vehicles, but I am leaning towards the LR3 with the hope that they will open a dealership closer to me some day!
LR from my understanding participates in a Ford program similar to Volvo. My data is rooted in knowledge I've had working in my company's auto group that leases cars for salesmen. Our work is with Ford and covers many models (domestic and non). These dollars (which as the host noted, we never know the real figures) may be called something different (and not the service loan vehicles, etc)...but they exist.
Stand by my comments which are rooted in real data.
I hear your pain. There are a lot of good SUVs out there. I did multiple test drives of the LR3, VolvoXC90, Toyota 4Runner(noGSX470 available),Land cruiser, 05 Pathfinder, Honda Pilot, even a Kia Sorrento. I live in Colorado and wanted a truck refined enough and comfortable for my wife and rugged enough to haul me and my muddy fishing buddies (and our gear) to hell and back. Until the LR3 came out I was stuck. The Toureg has the style and comfort but LESS cargo area than my passat wagon!!! The Pathfinder has space and is rugged but the vibration of the engine/drivetrain made it seem cheap and far from luxurious. The Volvo XC90 is really nice, handles well, and has good cargo capacity. It's no off-roader though-it lacks a low range transfer case. Same for the Honda Pilot:Great space,price and fuel economy but essentially a glorified minivan in terms of offroad potential. The whole Lexus/Toyota family just doesn't feel right to me anymore. It seems that they are refined to the point of blunting the driving experience. This held true for the land cruiser, four runner, and highlander. If the landcruser had stayed true to its heritage then I'd buy one in a second. Anyway, enter the LR3: What you've read is true but must be experienced to be believed. Spot on handling, excellent power, cargo space galore, perfect ergonomics/driving position, phenomenal all terrain capability. I've had mine for 3000 perfect miles (including fishing trips, snowy/icy canyons) and can't wait for more. The LR3 is the only compromise free SUV. IMHO. The Toyota/Lexus family are probably next in line in terms of luxury and capability. If offroad ability and price are unimportant try the Volvo. For an economical family hauler you can't beat the Honda Pilot. For a reasonable compromise the Pathfinder is good offroad and has lots of space and handles nicely as well. The toureg is sort of a miniature LR3-great vehicle if you don't need to haul anything-the diesel version was excellent-but ran 67,000. TRY them all. BUY the LR3. T
Some people may say (without the facts) that the LR3 uses a Ford Explorer's chassis. That is FALSE.
The LR3 has an...
(from edmunds.com)
"Integrated body frame is just a fancy way of saying that the LR3's traditional ladder frame is aided in crash-worthiness by a body that has almost unibodylike strength. In most typical body-on-frame designs, the frame provides all the strength while the bolted-on body simply holds the passengers. The LR3's body, though, has extra strong sills that literally envelope its frame. So closely does it wrap around, in fact, that in the case of an accident, the body is forced into the frame rails greatly adding to its strength. Land Rover says that this significantly increases resistance during offset crashes, the common bugaboo of body-on-frame designs."
The previous Discovery (the new LR3 is called the Discovery 3 in Europe) had an engine that dated back to the 1960s. It had leaks that Jaguar's 4.2 V-8 does not have. Jaguar's 4.2 V-8 doesn't even leak at all.
Thanks Winston. Good rundown on what I am toying with. The big dilemna for me is the fact that the closet dealer is about 1 1/2 hours away. A real pain if you have any problems. I agree with you on the Touareg, just wish it had more cargo space. Alot of the same features as the LR3 but it appears to have a nicer cabin. I hate to say it, but I will probably let my wife decide if I am torn between the two. No offense to anybody, but the XC90 is too womanly for me. I want luxury but I want it to be masculine and functionable at the same time.
That hour and a half drive is just one more reason to hop in the LR3 and go. If the shop was 10 minutes away you'd be sorry it was so close. My Landrover dealer is 45minutes away but it's all good. Of course, I haven't had any problems so it makes it easy for my to say it's no big deal not to have a shop close. One thing I will say is it seems LR dealers are particularly good with loaner vehicles if you need them. Just write in the contract of purchase that if there's a problem they'll drive the vehicle to the shop for you and replace it with a brand new Range Rover loaner. They may actually say yes. Ya never know. Good Luck!!!! Winston
Meanwhile, Land Rover Canada called: they tell me they have identified the error as a stretched wire in a wiring loom. Thay have put that on back order - it will arrive the middle of next week, so by the end of next week I should have my truck back.
They also very kindly offered to send me and my wife to the LR driving school weekend and Chateau Montebello in Quebec at a time of our choosing. I'm looking forward to that!
I have an HSE (bi-xenon, non-adaptive headlights) and I notice at night that I get a lot of oncoming drivers flashing their brights. I read on another forum that a substantial number of LR3s came off the line with one headlight 3-degrees off and that it can only be adjusted by the dealer (one guy was pulled over and told not to drive until night until it's fixed). I live in the NW US and it looks like I have the non-NAS headlights to boot. Anyone else experienced something similar and anyway to adjust short of taking it in? Thanks.
I rarely get flashed. But do note I also get flashed by bozos in the Audi with xenon hightlights... and they are adjusted perfectly.
Drop by your dealer and have them check it out. You can pull close to a wall and examine how the beams hit, but I don't think anyone can easily explain what is "correct."
a) Was there not a year's concierge service? It was promised before, I am quite sure, but it isn't in the books.
b) The service book is ambiguous on whether there is, or isn't, a service indicator on the LR3. (One page says there is; another page says oil change at fixed intervals every 12000 km/7500m).
"Every new Land Rover Owner receives this benefit for four years from the original retail purchase date or until the vehicle changes ownership (whichever occurs first). Upon expiration of complimentary services, Owners have the option of extending their Land Rover Concierge services beyond four years."
Note: I'm not so sure about Canada. Give it a try.
The Service Indicator is supposedly not enabled in North America. It's possible a service technician can enable the silly mile counter, but who knows...
I have been lurking here for a while while awaiting delivery of my LR3. Three weeks ago, I picked up my black HSE (beige interior) from Manhattan Land Rover (lease). It is fully loaded except for the adaptive headlights which was not an option on the only HSE they had available. I took it since I wanted to drive it on a trip to Maryland. I added the mudflaps, sidesteps and rubber mats. The car has performed well overall. Since this is my first SUV, I cannot really make any comparisons. I have owned a Mazda RX-7 and still drive a BMW 330i. I cancelled an order for a phoenix yellow BMW M3 for the LR3, which so far I don't regret.
For those out there still with questions about whther to take the plunge here are some comments: the ride quality is superb. The practicality, functionality is excellent. The 3rd row seats are outstanding in regards to comfort, design and accessibility. The power is adequate; handling good although coming from sport cars, turns are not exactly confidence inspiring. The car feels heavy and fuel efficiency is horrible as is expected. I got an average of just over 14 mpg - with about 500 miles highway and 400 miles local. The fact that I have yet to encounter another LR3 on the road makes owning one pretty cool (at least for now). You will attract some attention with this car. IMO, black color makes the car look solid -like a tank.
Since delivery of the car, I have noticed some minor glitches I would like to share with current owners. 1. the audio for the Nav just stopped working after the 2nd day. Pressing the play button on the screen will however play the last message. 2. several times, the Nav screen and radio LCD failed to shut off after shutting off the ignition. Turning the key without starting the engine, then removing it invariably turns the screens off. 3. during the last 50 miles of my trip home, the light that illuminates the right-most numbers on the speedometer grew dark. I thought it was a burned bulb but it came on agan after restarting the car. 4. Although I haven't fully explored this yet, I noticed on several occasions that the suspension lowers on its own after getting out of the car. Once, this happened even after selecting access height before exiting the vehicle. 5. I still have not been able to get the voice command to work no matter how loud I scream. It just says "no speech detected." Anyone else with this problem or am I doing something wrong.
Overall, I am very happy with the LR3. I too had many hesitations on driving a first model year vehicle. But I wasn't excited with any other SUV alternatives and since it is not my primary daily driver (I would go poor feeding it), I would not be heavily inconvenienced should it require time in the shop.
At long last, official news from LR on the phone systems. Some information is hard for me to interpret, so rather than confuse issues, or provide inaccurate statements, "mopagree", I have only laid out what I can make out as the facts, unless otherwise stated.
PTIS, Personal Telephone Integration System will be available from April 05 production. This means it will be hitting your dealers between May & July. Your dealers will be able to add it as an ordering option at the end of this month.
It will initially support the same phones as the Range Rover does. Other phones may work fully, or partially, but are not LR tested and/or approved. The phone components will be the same as in the Range Rover, but the system design is totally different. This is because the RR system works through the Nav. So as to not be a disadvantage to LR3's without the Nav, the audio screen will be used on all LR3 models.
Like the RR, a cradle will be a dealer option to give increased features. This should be able to be installed on all LR3 including those already built. I doubt, but don't know for certain, that the Bluetooth factory installed option will be able to be retrospectively fitted as it is when an ordered option, just the cradle. Will keep you posted when I know more on that one.
The Factory PTIS option will be priced at US$400 and CAN$650. No price yet on the cradle, but the RR one is about $150.
An S model will definitely be made with a 6-cylinder engine sourced from the Ford stable. As standard it will not have air-suspension, but coils. I imagine that due to the weight of the LR3, a great deal of standard components on SE & HSE will have to be stripped to help the engine along. My concern is that the engine may not be any more economical, possibly worse on MPG figures than the V8. The rear seating will also not be an option on this model. I have a lot of hearsay and suspicions of what is planned, but I will hold back on those till I have more concrete information. At the end of the day, you never know what is final until the car arrives at the dealerships, and even then it can change, but it will be arriving sooner rather than later. Hope this helps.
One last thing, the Cooler Box option will be back on the dealer order options this month, but I don't think that orders placed in the last order call will be able to be altered.
Some people have tons of problems with getting the voice recognition to work, some have none. If it does not understand a word your say nor think you say things you did not, take it back to the dealer to check.
Depending on how your speak, you should try moving between US Male & Female and UK Male & Female in the Settings Menu. Just because you are male, and American?, does not mean that the system will not better understand you in UK Female mode. I believe their are tips in the manual on how to talk to it, but do not shout. The more angry you get with it and louder you get, the less it will understand you. Speak in a even tone and volume as if you were speaking the passenger next to you.
I am not saying you are, but another common problem is people not speaking the right commands, or at the correctly prompted time. I know many dealers have had training on this, so go to your dealer and ask your salesman to take some time to go through it with you.
Calbrit, the EPA gas mileage estimate for the 6-cylinder is 14/19 instead of 14/18 on the V8. In reality, it's fairly certain the V6 will get worse real world mileage. The LR3 is just too heavy, even stripped of numerous features. (Look at any overweight and underpowered vehicles.)
The only reason the 6-cylinder will exist in North America will be to appeal to the bargain market... and to pull people in with a lower intro price.
The "dealer installed" PTI/Bluetooth is available in other markets. It's more limited... no interaction with head unit controls, etc. You'd be better off installing a 3rd party one.
Comments
Anyway, most "true cost" discussions are irritating. Dealers are a business, just like Land Rover. They aren't there to give product away at cost.
Did you investigate getting LR to buy the truck back? With no miles on it, it would seem that they would have been amenable to it.
I don't think you will get anywhere near dealer net cost on an LR3 as they are new and hot in perception, but if the problems continue and no solutions in sight who knows.
I am sitting here with a Ford A Plan Pin # and cash in hand to buy a LR3, no trade in, no nothing , no credit no lease just wite out a check, cash deal, for a LR3 at dealer invoice and the postings by so many people who have taken the time to share their experiences have caused me to reconsider other options or wait 6 months.
Good Luck. Hopes this answered your question
Then a quote by LR Chief Program Engineer.
13 continents and 3 US cities, and none of the continuing postings by current owners of stalling, suspension problems were ever noticed??? How can this be possible, if the 4mm statement is correct and not marketing BS. Why didn't some of the current problems show up in 4 MM miles of testing'???On a lesser important note, you would think one of the techs in the LR3 would write on their clip board, maybe should put lock on glove box, mabye a lock on gas filler opening and if LR3 is really an off road SUV, people will go to deserted areas ,beaches,mts. etc, and a thieft protection on glass breakage maybe should at least be an option if not standard. They build a $50+ off road SUV then cut back on the small things.
Anyway, I have a Ford A Plan, dealer invoice cost, but price now is not the issue it's realibility and the 4mm comment on testing is usless to me, I am sure to those of you whohave had all the problems posted as well, but I ask 4 million miles of testing and no problmes to correct before mass production to the people paying $$$$.
Again thanks you all for all your input.
:--)
And if you keep the LR3 in an "inappropriate setting," the owner's manual warns that you can reduce the durability of the suspension and drive systems and "impair the vehicle's response."
...Knob twist tames any landscape
Though it may be overkill for some, the Land Rover LR3 SE adjusts to a variety of driving surfaces.
SIX HOURS????
By Anita Lienert / Special to The Detroit News
CanadianDriver
Steve, Host
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29379-2004Sep17.ht- ml
"Downside: Computer glitch on tested pre-production models led to several brief engine stalls on steep hill climbs. Land Rover engineers said the matter will be corrected with new sensors in production models."
They probably did. I imagine quite a few problems came up, which is to be expected in development. Four million miles sounds like a lot, but consider that if LR sells 10,000 vehicles, after an average of 1000 miles each you have 10 million "real world" test miles. These guys (and gals) are the beta testers!
and the drivers were false.
No offense to you but 4 mm in ads and the problems posted by owners on this web. Again help me understand
2. Tow Package, the factory option does not affect ground clearance. What is attached to the receiver could. I am 99% certain Heavy-Duty Pack will not affect rear clearance as I don't think the larger tire would restrict your departure angle.
Aftermarket installers were given a date of March to have the same Nav as is in the LR3, just without the off-road display. The only problem is due to the demand for HSE and Nav models exceeding LR expectations, LR have probably increased their orders with the supplier so the March date may be pushed back.
There are a lot of Aftermarket people doing this in Nor. Cal. Try contacting several local companies.
It makes sense to me that an inappropriate setting will reduce the prime performance of the car. Driving the car in Rock Crawl mode continuously on the road would not do the car any favors.
There is no way LR would come up with a specific number for the amount of miles the vehicles have done in testing if it were not true. Why that exact number? Why make the claim if some statistician could not work the numbers out? Just because the vehicle was tested extensively does not mean the vehicles were tested and did not develop faults nor does it mean the vehicles were released with LR expecting 100% reliability. You can have extensive testing and still have problems. Think of what problems could have developed if they have done less testing. Maybe they should have done 5 million or 6?
Perhaps both LR and the posters are telling the truth?!
I am considering the following vehicles: LR3, Volvo XC90, Volkswagon Touerag and Lexus GSX 470. The LR3 suits my family's needs the best, cargo area, 7 passenger, etc but the problem is the closest dealer is about 75 minutes away which is a concern. We have both the Volkswagon and Volvo dealership in town and obviously a Toyota dealership can work on a Lexus. One thing I have learned reading through ALL these posts is that all the SUVs have problems. BTW, I have test drove any of these but I looked at the Touerag and the XC90.
I would welcome any comments from posters that have gone through the same decision and what led you to the vehicle you ended up with. Thanks ahead.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/0501/05/G03-44424.htm
The sales staff is just as great as the tech's. While there, another owner from Arkansas was there - he drives to Tulsa just to get his LR serviced. They have a number of SE's ready to go but have only one black/black HSE. If anyone is close to this dealer, it would pay you to drive there, even if it is several hours...
I just picked up our new LR3 SE7 last night. It's awesome. Yeah, it's been less than 24 hrs but I'm stoked on this truck. The drive home made me happy. It was pouring down rain over highway 17 and it felt like nothing. I passed 4 cars that had spun out and were being pulled from trees. I've always felt sketchy on this road in conditions like these while driving our Jeep Cherokee - had it start to slide on me more than once. The LR3 made it seem like nothing. In fact, here's a review that could have been written about my drive home from the dealer: http://research.cars.com/go/crp/reviews.jsp?revid=46273&indcr- iteria=ASSET_TYPE-Affiliate+Review%2CBuying+Guide%2CVehicle+Profi- le%7CD-_7660_%7CY-_2005_%7CresultStructure-combined&makeid=26- &modelid=7660&year=2005&myid=&revlogtype=19&a- ff=sjm
I want to thank the participants on this board for all the good info. And a nod to calbrit in particular for his insight : ) This forum is a very valuable tool.
If you're considering this truck, I say find a dealer you like and jump in! I can't wait to get off the pavement.
JJ
If you re-read my reply, you'll see that I agreed that your premise that four million miles of testing that should have turned up the problems experienced by some owners here.
I then suggested that a practical solution to your dilemma would be to wait a year or two until the bugs had been worked out.
I didn't say that life should be like this, because in an ideal world it clearly shouldn't. However, I was trying to give a practical rather than a philosophical answer!
:--)
Dealer had to replace the radio and a power relay switch to fix the problem.
Having to make many searches to rummage through the various threads is a slow process.
AA. We need sub categories (feel free to add to this list) such as:
General Discussion
Buying & Pricing Information
Technical Discussion
Problems & Fixes
Accessories
BB. How about being able to PM or see profile info of other LR3 users?
Any "Disco3" owners out there?
Steve & Tidester please advance the cause!
Thanks
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html
6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Stand by my comments which are rooted in real data.
So far everything has been working great for my wife. It will be interesting to see tomorrow am as the forecast is for cold temperatures overnight.
Paul
Go here:
http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/v8_performance.html
The 4.4 V-8 was tuned for off-road duty along with more low-end torque (when compared to Jaguar's 4.2 V-8).
The LR3 has an...
(from edmunds.com)
"Integrated body frame is just a fancy way of saying that the LR3's traditional ladder frame is aided in crash-worthiness by a body that has almost unibodylike strength. In most typical body-on-frame designs, the frame provides all the strength while the bolted-on body simply holds the passengers. The LR3's body, though, has extra strong sills that literally envelope its frame. So closely does it wrap around, in fact, that in the case of an accident, the body is forced into the frame rails greatly adding to its strength. Land Rover says that this significantly increases resistance during offset crashes, the common bugaboo of body-on-frame designs."
Here is a picture of the LR3's chassis:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/advi- ce/specialreports/landrover.lr3/05.landrover.lr3.str.500.jpg
I decided to go for the Goodyears.
Meanwhile, Land Rover Canada called: they tell me they have identified the error as a stretched wire in a wiring loom. Thay have put that on back order - it will arrive the middle of next week, so by the end of next week I should have my truck back.
They also very kindly offered to send me and my wife to the LR driving school weekend and Chateau Montebello in Quebec at a time of our choosing. I'm looking forward to that!
Re contact: check my road test at http://www.mvw.net/lr3/roadtest.php
Michael
Drop by your dealer and have them check it out. You can pull close to a wall and examine how the beams hit, but I don't think anyone can easily explain what is "correct."
Two small questions come to my mind immediately:
a) Was there not a year's concierge service? It was promised before, I am quite sure, but it isn't in the books.
b) The service book is ambiguous on whether there is, or isn't, a service indicator on the LR3. (One page says there is; another page says oil change at fixed intervals every 12000 km/7500m).
Michael
http://landroverconcierge.vipdesk.com/sign_in.asp
Note: I'm not so sure about Canada. Give it a try.
The Service Indicator is supposedly not enabled in North America. It's possible a service technician can enable the silly mile counter, but who knows...
I have been lurking here for a while while awaiting delivery of my LR3. Three weeks ago, I picked up my black HSE (beige interior) from Manhattan Land Rover (lease). It is fully loaded except for the adaptive headlights which was not an option on the only HSE they had available. I took it since I wanted to drive it on a trip to Maryland. I added the mudflaps, sidesteps and rubber mats. The car has performed well overall. Since this is my first SUV, I cannot really make any comparisons. I have owned a Mazda RX-7 and still drive a BMW 330i. I cancelled an order for a phoenix yellow BMW M3 for the LR3, which so far I don't regret.
For those out there still with questions about whther to take the plunge here are some comments: the ride quality is superb. The practicality, functionality is excellent. The 3rd row seats are outstanding in regards to comfort, design and accessibility. The power is adequate; handling good although coming from sport cars, turns are not exactly confidence inspiring. The car feels heavy and fuel efficiency is horrible as is expected. I got an average of just over 14 mpg - with about 500 miles highway and 400 miles local. The fact that I have yet to encounter another LR3 on the road makes owning one pretty cool (at least for now). You will attract some attention with this car. IMO, black color makes the car look solid -like a tank.
Since delivery of the car, I have noticed some minor glitches I would like to share with current owners.
1. the audio for the Nav just stopped working after the 2nd day. Pressing the play button on the screen will however play the last message.
2. several times, the Nav screen and radio LCD failed to shut off after shutting off the ignition. Turning the key without starting the engine, then removing it invariably turns the screens off.
3. during the last 50 miles of my trip home, the light that illuminates the right-most numbers on the speedometer grew dark. I thought it was a burned bulb but it came on agan after restarting the car.
4. Although I haven't fully explored this yet, I noticed on several occasions that the suspension lowers on its own after getting out of the car. Once, this happened even after selecting access height before exiting the vehicle.
5. I still have not been able to get the voice command to work no matter how loud I scream. It just says "no speech detected." Anyone else with this problem or am I doing something wrong.
Overall, I am very happy with the LR3. I too had many hesitations on driving a first model year vehicle. But I wasn't excited with any other SUV alternatives and since it is not my primary daily driver (I would go poor feeding it), I would not be heavily inconvenienced should it require time in the shop.
Would love to hear any comments.
Anthony
PTIS, Personal Telephone Integration System will be available from April 05 production. This means it will be hitting your dealers between May & July. Your dealers will be able to add it as an ordering option at the end of this month.
It will initially support the same phones as the Range Rover does. Other phones may work fully, or partially, but are not LR tested and/or approved. The phone components will be the same as in the Range Rover, but the system design is totally different. This is because the RR system works through the Nav. So as to not be a disadvantage to LR3's without the Nav, the audio screen will be used on all LR3 models.
Like the RR, a cradle will be a dealer option to give increased features. This should be able to be installed on all LR3 including those already built. I doubt, but don't know for certain, that the Bluetooth factory installed option will be able to be retrospectively fitted as it is when an ordered option, just the cradle. Will keep you posted when I know more on that one.
The Factory PTIS option will be priced at US$400 and CAN$650. No price yet on the cradle, but the RR one is about $150.
An S model will definitely be made with a 6-cylinder engine sourced from the Ford stable. As standard it will not have air-suspension, but coils. I imagine that due to the weight of the LR3, a great deal of standard components on SE & HSE will have to be stripped to help the engine along. My concern is that the engine may not be any more economical, possibly worse on MPG figures than the V8. The rear seating will also not be an option on this model. I have a lot of hearsay and suspicions of what is planned, but I will hold back on those till I have more concrete information. At the end of the day, you never know what is final until the car arrives at the dealerships, and even then it can change, but it will be arriving sooner rather than later. Hope this helps.
One last thing, the Cooler Box option will be back on the dealer order options this month, but I don't think that orders placed in the last order call will be able to be altered.
Depending on how your speak, you should try moving between US Male & Female and UK Male & Female in the Settings Menu. Just because you are male, and American?, does not mean that the system will not better understand you in UK Female mode. I believe their are tips in the manual on how to talk to it, but do not shout. The more angry you get with it and louder you get, the less it will understand you. Speak in a even tone and volume as if you were speaking the passenger next to you.
I am not saying you are, but another common problem is people not speaking the right commands, or at the correctly prompted time. I know many dealers have had training on this, so go to your dealer and ask your salesman to take some time to go through it with you.
Glad to hear you are pleased with it.
The only reason the 6-cylinder will exist in North America will be to appeal to the bargain market... and to pull people in with a lower intro price.