Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Karen_S

I'm told this reporter stumbled in here and thinks you all have interesting stories.

A reporter is interested in doing a fun feature story on "chronic car buyers" i.e. people who regularly shop for and/or buy cars. If you're willing to share your story and experiences, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than July 8, 2016.

PF_Flyer

Hey, think you guys have a few stories to tell? I hope the reporter is ready...heh

tifighter

Not sure I have time; too busy shopping for the next car...

andres3

nyccarguy said:

@andres3 - that's gorgeous! Those are 18" wheels, right? @breld - you have the black optic package with the 20s, right?

MB makes a color called Iridium which to me is the perfect shade of silver.

Yes, those are the OEM 18" wheels standard from Audi for S4's. I actually like the 19's, but didn't need to pay extra for them as for track use I prefer lighter weight wider wheels anyway.

roadburner

Karen_CM said:

I'm told this reporter stumbled in here and thinks you all have interesting stories.

A reporter is interested in doing a fun feature story on "chronic car buyers" i.e. people who regularly shop for and/or buy cars. If you're willing to share your story and experiences, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than July 8, 2016.

I'm about ready to get booted out of here ; my last purchases were 2007, 2008, 2012, and 2016- only four punches in nine years...

xwesx

I don't think I took the time to post about my 2010 Forester's recent service visits (perhaps a mark *against* long-term ownership?), so I'll do that here:

I'm sure I mentioned at least a time or two before about the chronic transmission noise this car produced, and how the dealership flat refused to acknowledge anything about it. Well, I have a 7/100 extended "Subaru Gold" warranty on it, and it expires on 9/10/16 (assuming I don't hit 100,000 miles by then), so I figured that since it is at 95K and nearing the expiry either way, I better take it in once more for the tranny.

This time, not only did they *finally* admit the noise existed (after a ride-along, as they initially said everything was fine), but they also acknowledged that the head gaskets were leaking (something I told them before we even hit the 36K mark on it). They said they would have to crack the tranny case open to locate the source of the problem, so I scheduled to drop it off the same day we left for our PA trip several weeks ago. We were out of town for 1.5 weeks, and they expected to have the car ready for us upon our return.

Well, they didn't, due to waiting on parts from the factory. Then, after they had it for 3.5 weeks, they finally returned it to us on Friday, 6/10 (they were nice enough to set us up in a loaner for two weeks, though). During this time, they replaced both head gaskets, replaced the center differential bearings and races (the races were failing - literally disintegrating), and replaced the center differential (precautionary due to the likelihood of premature wear due to the metal shavings from the races).

The car sounded wonderful (in a quiet way)! However, once this noise was gone, we noticed that there was an intermittent whine/vibration that seemed like it was wheel-related. On top of that, when I drove it a few days ago, I found that it seemed "unsettled" going over uneven areas of the road. When I did a quick examination of the suspension, I discovered that the rear passenger wheel had about 1/2" of play in it if I pulled/pushed on the top of the wheel. So.... I took it back yesterday!

And, they replaced both rear wheel bearings, the passenger one, they said, was in really bad condition and they couldn't believe we let it go so long. Well, we probably wouldn't have if we could have heard the noise it was making! Unfortunately, the transmission issue that *they* let go for years drowned out any noise a wheel bearing might make.

So, we're now just a little over 95,000 miles, and we have had about $5,700 in repairs done to the car courtesy of our $1,500 extended warranty.

Michaell

Karen_CM said:

I'm told this reporter stumbled in here and thinks you all have interesting stories.

A reporter is interested in doing a fun feature story on "chronic car buyers" i.e. people who regularly shop for and/or buy cars. If you're willing to share your story and experiences, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than July 8, 2016.

I nominate @breld to represent the group. He and Mrs. @breld have tons of stories.

nyccarguy

I'm approaching 35K on my Legacy. You sir have scared me.

ab348

Don't all new Subarus come with a few spare sets of head gaskets in the trunk from the factory?

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

I'm approaching 35K on my Legacy. You sir have scared me.

Well, your car is of the new breed with the FB engine block, so you can at least write off the most expensive of those repairs!

stickguy

I assume you have a manual trans too, so not going to have the same issues with the CVT

cdnpinhead

Wow -- I'm looking at replacing my wife's Pathfinder (with 170K miles on it with very few issues) with a Forester. Hopefully that's not a bad idea.

roadburner

cdnpinhead said:

Wow -- I'm looking at replacing my wife's Pathfinder (with 170K miles on it with very few issues) with a Forester. Hopefully that's not a bad idea.

I'd get one of the last Pro-4X Xterras.

xwesx

Well, let's be brutally honest here.

All cars take maintenance. The issues I had recently were repairs. In that department, some are more demanding than others. In addition, what you do with the car affects, to some extent, how many repairs you might need down the road. Knowing that....

Forester made Car and Driver's top ten list for most expensive cars in terms of M&R. Their survey concluded cost just over $10,000 in such expenses over ten years of ownership. For Subaru as a brand, it was $8,200. This isn't chump change, but it doesn't top the list, either. Now, this is for a ten-year-old car, so they're likely looking at MY 05, maybe 06, in that survey. As such, one could safely cut $2,500 off that total with the assumption that head gaskets are not the issue they once were. This is not to say that Subaru fully solved their issues with head gaskets, but they have likely solved the worst issue with them, which was the internal issue with exhaust gas blowing into the coolant and causing overheating.

Other things my car has had, such as the tranny issue? Very rare. Rare enough that the dealership had to order to the bearings and races from the factory. And, my car has dealt with this problem for YEARS - probably a true manufacturing defect. Rear wheel bearings? This is likely the result of us hauling fairly solid loads with it over long distances (such as our transcontinental trip three years ago). Ya gotta pay to play! But, I really think that the King springs that I put on the car a couple of years ago will help new bearings wear better, as the car doesn't ride in that splayed out manner any longer when I haul a full load.

So, if you buy a high-mileage Subaru or you bought a new one and want to keep it until it is high-mileage, it is likely going to cost you some money. That doesn't mean you should not get one; it means you need to go into it with a full understanding of your needs and the car's needs.

Sandman6472

I really don't mind the drive and and back as I listen to XM and the drive flies by. For years, my commute was just under 10 miles up 441 into Boca Raton, so I was spoiled. So now, driving 2/3 more but I enjoy the job. And having a vehicle I love really helps!
Drove a brand new 2016 Tiguan S at work yesterday, the lead driver found it and called me over to take it. The minute I got in, I knew this is the vehicle I was supposed to get way back in December of 2013...this is what I had in mind. The 2.0t engine has a bit more power which I noticed immediately, just loved it! The dash fonts are a bit larger, again, something I really like. Looking back, seems to be the same length as my Golf to be honest, 167.5". But yep, I should've bought this instead of the Tucson because it hits all the buttons and the little extra seating position is something I'd like. I know there is a mileage penalty with the larger engine but that's a trade off I would have no problem having.
Well, time will tell...have learned to never say never!

The Sandman

stever

@xwesx, my '97 Outback avoided all those problems, although it used a bit more oil than I would have liked. Other than the usual, I had a set of brakes all around and the timing belt done for $715. Sold it with around 97,000 miles iirc.

So it was a good runner - but there was always that nagging head gasket issue looming over the car like a black cloud and I felt like I dodged a $1,500 bullet when I sold it.

tjc78

I don't think I could ever go back to a long commute. I'm at 25 minutes completely against traffic flow (@stickguy I'm doing 42 south in the morning buzzing along at 70 while the other side is stopped dead)

This morning I worked from home before an appointment. I can't believe how much you can get done without interruptions. I could so get used to that.

stickguy

so you are heading toward the shore? For some reason I thought you worked in Maple Shade.

tjc78

Moorestown for years, but we acquired another company and I got shipped to the Winslow office (along with 2/3 of the office).

stickguy

Ah. so I am not completely nuts.

winslow not that far for me either

cdnpinhead

xwesx said:

Well, let's be brutally honest here.

Forester made Car and Driver's top ten list for most expensive cars in terms of M&R.

. . . or you bought a new one and want to keep it until it is high-mileage, it is likely going to cost you some money.

Thanks for the info, xwesx. So I guess the message is that it's no Honda, or even Nissan, for that matter. I've had excellent experience with both those brands & know the cube root of nothing about Subaru, beyond the fact that half the cars in Winter Park are Subarus, like many other areas that have to deal with winter weather.

Mr_Shiftright

I have no idea about newer Subarus, but on the old-ish ones with the 2.5L, I tell people to pull the rip cord at 110K.

The Subaru experts include all these in the "heads up" category:

Impreza 1999 to 2011
Forester 1999 to 2010
Legacy 2000 to 2009
Outback 2000 to 2009
Baja 2003 to 2006

Some say the problem goes back further than 1999, but I dunno. I've certainly seen such failures in my friend's Subaru shop, but he says (on a brighter note) that once he fixes them and installs the new gaskets, the problem is very unlikely to recur.

corvette

Sheesh, I don't know how you can have a systemic manufacturing defect like that and allow it to go on for over a decade.

fintail, how does the (smaller displacement) four cylinder diesel compare to the (larger displacement) diesel in your old E350 Bluetec? Does it feel faster than your gasoline E350?

fintail

It definitely feels like it isn't working as hard. The V6 gasoline engine is surprisingly revvy (to me), the diesel doesn't need to rev, it just pulls. It feels quite similar to and no slower than the 6cyl diesel. I think there might be a little more low speed clatter, but I kind of like it, so it's not an issue for me. Once you hit 30 or so, you don't really notice it.

corvette said:

fintail, how does the (smaller displacement) four cylinder diesel compare to the (larger displacement) diesel in your old E350 Bluetec? Does it feel faster than your gasoline E350?

Michaell

tjc78 said:

Moorestown for years, but we acquired another company and I got shipped to the Winslow office (along with 2/3 of the office).

My godparents lived in Moorsetown ... have been back that way many a time over the years to visit them. And, I used to do a fair amount of work for a company in Maple Shade.

karhill1

I just got a screamer add from a Ford Dealer in Chantilly, Virginia.

These adds are amazing. In huge print the add states "up to 100% REIMBURSEMENT OF ORIGINAL MSRP FOR YOUR VEHICLE." In very, almost unreadable small print the add reveals "appropriate deductions will be made for excessive wear and tear and reconditioning the vehicle for resale: 20c to 85c per mile depending on model and condition."

In addition they advertise a price in the huge print. In the small print the disclose the price excludes freight, dealer (fake) processing fee of $689.50 but include all available factory rebates and incentives. Dah!

I wonder, do these fake adds actually work for these dealers?

Personally, I avoid dealers who employ these tactics as these dealers really just scream "drop in we are here to take your money"!

rayainsw

The current issue of R&T [ July ] has a Road Test Summary page that is
exclusively BMWs they have tested over the years - back to the 1950s.
Just FYI.
- Ray
Still some listed there that I would like to have ...

kyfdx

corvette said:

Sheesh, I don't know how you can have a systemic manufacturing defect like that and allow it to go on for over a decade.

And, with major engine problems, how do you hang on to your reputation? Someone is drinking the Kool-Aid.

tjc78

Michaell said:

tjc78 said:

Moorestown for years, but we acquired another company and I got shipped to the Winslow office (along with 2/3 of the office).

My godparents lived in Moorsetown ... have been back that way many a time over the years to visit them. And, I used to do a fair amount of work for a company in Maple Shade.

In @stickguy and I's back yard. Good 'old South Jersey.

In other notes, was wasting time last night and if anyone wants to watch some interesting old Motorweeek epsiodes there are several from the 80s on You Tube right now. I watched their GM/Ford and Chrysler "1986" line up episodes. Quite neat to see how those cars were viewed when new. Search for "Motorweek Retro"

RE: Subaru and head gaskets. Ford had the problem with the 3.8 Essex V6 for well over 5 years, so it isn't that uncommon.

graphicguy

Karen_CM said:

I'm told this reporter stumbled in here and thinks you all have interesting stories.

A reporter is interested in doing a fun feature story on "chronic car buyers" i.e. people who regularly shop for and/or buy cars. If you're willing to share your story and experiences, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than July 8, 2016.

Not sure I qualify. I'm 7 months into the "new" CTS ownership experience. So, nothing recent. I've made a stab at a '98 Cobra convertible, and test drove a BMW M235i convertible.

I do expect to receive my electric bicycle next month. Doest that count?

stever

@karhill1, sure, the screamer ads work. That one got your attention. (Welcome to the show btw).

Just read a post by @Fintail in another discussion with this quote that fits so aptly with CCBA:

>>I didn't intend to get this car - I came in for a keyfob battery

Good reason to always buy your batteries at Walgreens and not at the dealer.

stickguy

The whole plan is to get you in the showroom. Whatever works. I'm a sucker for gift cards (haven't gotten any of those offers in a long time though ). Promise me $50, I will stop in anywhere.

nyccarguy

I went to dinner with 2 friends last night. One of them has a White Tesla P85D. He says he doesn't LOVE the car as much as he should. In the year & 18K miles he's had the car it has been rock solid reliable. It's only been back to Tesla once for a recall.

Mr_Shiftright

How come the honeymoon is over? Does the car snore?

henryn

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Sheesh, I don't know how you can have a systemic manufacturing defect like that and allow it to go on for over a decade.

And, with major engine problems, how do you hang on to your reputation? Someone is drinking the Kool-Aid.

Well, among other things, Subaru works very hard at maintaining a clean corporate image. They do a lot of work with the ASPCA and other animal rescue outfits. I've never owned a Subaru (we get VERY little snow here), but I have a very positive image of the company.

stickguy

I think the functionality of the AWD, especially in core sales areas (New England, Colorado) overrides a lot of the care and feeding issues. Some cars are enough of an emotional attachment that owners will put up with some extra repairs. plus they tend to be pretty old by then in most cases.

At least they make it up a driveway in Vermont in the winter.

Mr_Shiftright

Subaru parts prices tend to be higher than other Japanese competitors as well, so something to consider after warranty.

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

How come the honeymoon is over? Does the car snore?

Coming from a Dinan modified ///M5 (that was in the shop a lot), he misses the exhaust note, the roar of the engine, the "feel for the road" (thank-you @driver100). The Tesla is blazing fast, handles great, and has astonishing technology, but it is a bit sterile compared to his former ///M5.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, the obvious. You'd think he would have anticipated those compromises.

I found the Tesla kinda boring too, after the first 1/2 hour of jamming the throttle (or whatever you call it in a Tesla). Feels like a tank. The car does actually handle pretty well, but it's work. This is no ballerina. Heavy objects with a low center of gravity tend to want to continue to go straight.

If I won one in a contest, I wouldn't keep it.

stever

Subaru does push a lot of the "right" buttons. The dogs, the tie-ins with human powered sports groups, their "green" factory in Indiana. Good softroading image for getting you to the forest service trailheads. Some of it just seems like marketing though - it was amusing when they had some canoe rack issue on a new model intro a few years ago considering that if you join the American Canoe Assn, you can get a significant discount on a new Subie.

I sure liked our Outback while making hospital runs to Marquette in a UP blizzard (did that several times...).

That said, ours wasn't that comfy for anything more than a two hour drive and we really didn't love it. But it ran well (never really trusted the boxer engine). I enjoyed driving my sister's '05 Forester and am looking forward to driving her Crosstrek later this year. She's especially hard on cars, and she had great luck with the Forester. We've shopped the new Forester and Outback but didn't pursue them.

I'd like to see them offer, say, the Crosstrek in a FWD flavor and bump up the mpg a good bit (the hybrid isn't bad at 30/34). Heresy among the Subaru Crew though.

nyccarguy

He got the Model S because he wanted something different after owning quite a few high end BMWs (1 M5, 2 X5M, 750 Li X drive, B7 L X Drive, and an X5 4.8i). I kept hounding him to look at Porsches, but he likes the have the biggest motor and check a significant amount of option boxes. So a Turbo (Cayenne, 911, Panamera) is "out of his price range," and he wouldn't look at the "mid priced" Cayenne GTS, Panamera 4 GTS, Some form of 911. I also thougt he should have picked up the tab for dinner last night because he had to throw his Black AMEX card on top of my And my other friend's VISA cards;)

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, the black card. Well you don't have to be filthy rich, but still, a $7500 intiation fee and $2500 annual fee is a bit rich for my tastes. Of course, if you are filthy rich, $7500 is like "free".

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

I have no idea about newer Subarus, but on the old-ish ones with the 2.5L, I tell people to pull the rip cord at 110K.

The Subaru experts include all these in the "heads up" category:

Impreza 1999 to 2011
Forester 1999 to 2010
Legacy 2000 to 2009
Outback 2000 to 2009
Baja 2003 to 2006

Some say the problem goes back further than 1999, but I dunno. I've certainly seen such failures in my friend's Subaru shop, but he says (on a brighter note) that once he fixes them and installs the new gaskets, the problem is very unlikely to recur.

Yep, that's very true. I think the biggest single issue is head gaskets, but that can be a major issue depending on how the failure manifests. If you get the internal leak, it is very likely to cause overheating, which, in turn, can warp the block (aluminum), and that means a new short block (at the very least). I think I would extend the Legacy/Outback group to 2011, because I don't think they received the FB engine until the 2012 MY. Forester was the first to get it in 2011.

Aside from the head gaskets, wheel bearings were a problem area on the Impreza-based cars (Impreza and Forester) for a time, but I think reliability on those went way up about nine or ten years ago.

As with Steve, I felt very fortunate that my 1996 Outback, the first year of the 2.5L engine, made it to 192,000 miles before I replaced the head gaskets. I noticed they were leaking (the dreaded internal leak) several thousand miles prior, though, so I think they started in earnest at around 185K. Still, that's pretty good life, and far longer than most owners ever drive a car.

Overall, I just want people to make informed decisions. I do like my Subarus; I've owned five now, and I'll likely own another. But, it's still a machine, and it still has its problem points!

elias

Picked up a 2016 Chevy Sonic LT 1.4turbo stickshift last week for $14k via the 20% off incentive. It would have been $13182 the month before, due to the previous incentives. Either way, the Sonic price is much less than the cost of the gasoline I'll be putting into 2015 Chevy SS over the next decade.

Who else here buys new cars *two at a time*, or maybe two within a month, or within a year?
I probably need to stop doing that.

Has anyone here bought two new cars in the same day?

corvette

Wait, did you buy the Cruze and the SS on the same day?

Sandman6472

Oil change went as I thought it would, took about 1.5 hours to do it all plus the rotation. Told me everything checks out. Mentioned the stumbling issue on takeoff and he mentioned that turbo lag is probably the cause and suggested I go up to mid grade petrol and see if it takes care of the issue. Vehicle calls for 87 so why put in 91? Wouldn't the engineers recommended 91 originally I asked? Also mentioned that I drive a lot of Jetta's and Passat's at work, both the 1.8t and newer 1.4t engines, and never feel the lag I'm feeling. He fumbled on his answer and said they aren't turbo'd at first but ten said no, try 91 grade. In other words, he had no clue what he was saying here!
Kinda pissed me off because that was a dumb answer. Why would the Jetta's and Passat's I've driven not have this sort of lag? And betting they both call for 87 octane. Did a lousy wash and vacuum, nothing like Audi to be honest!! So what say y'all? Do a few tank fulls of 91 and see where it goes or just use the 87 and live with it? Leaning on trying this experiment since I do keep the engine humming along at about 73 or so for at least 25 minutes each way back and forth to work. Getting petrol tomorrow so folks, help me out here. Also, got another compliment on my wheels on the Golf...guy said they gave it a cooler look! Cool!!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Went to see the guy who hires the drivers at my VW store and just as I thought, he had trashed my application I submitted the week I bought the Golf, second week of December of 2014. He showed me the small stack he already had and listed the dates which I had hoped for. After I told him my date, he got a bit flustered and started to change his story but obviously, the minute I left back then, mine went in the circular file! The only reason I could think of is my cane. He did tell me to go fill out another app, which I did and brought it back to him when completed.
Think he realized I caught him in his little lie but who knows and can't prove it. I did write on my app that I've been working as a driver since the beginning of 2013 and that I would make an excellent employee and that living maybe five minutes away would be a positive. Just asked to be given a fair shot and not to be judged for using something to walk more steady. Hopefully, this time if an opening comes up, he'll give me a fair shot. It would be very cool to work there especially the cut in drive time plus not needing to pay the tolls to get there.

The Sandman

Sandman6472

At work on Monday, the powers that be made a big change in the drivers schedules. They did it in a piss poor way and a few others were talking about quitting. Must admit that the way they threw it on us was rather poorly done but such is life.
Basically, from now on, one driver will have to work from our location at the Honda store from 10 to 4 and maybe the whole day. The guy who did it Monday was super unhappy about it since he lives south and left his vehicle at our office. I volunteered for Tuesday and since I live north of the dealership, I drove right there. Since they open at 7:30, I was there to open and it wasn't that bad. Just have to pick up customers at the nearby Hyundai store and return them there when needed. Also, have to pick up customers from home when needed and also taking them back home. Was busy but sat a good part of the time. At about 3:30, the rest of the group came to pick me us so we could move vehicles to the other offices. Got back about 5:45 and was told I could go home.
Really wasn't that bad to be honest and cut off about 10 minutes of my driving time. Got a feeling that in the next few days, they're going to cut it back to the originally mentioned six hours, 10 to 4. Not sure when I go again but would rather do it on a day when I'm off the next day, which would be Tuesdays. I will pursue this with the boss when I go back on Friday. As things are going now, I'm basically staying all day the three days and getting about 28 hours/week. Better than the 24 I was doing!!

The Sandman

fintail

The MB dealer replaces them for free*

*might also include picking up a new car

stever said:

Just read a post by @Fintail in another discussion with this quote that fits so aptly with CCBA:

>>I didn't intend to get this car - I came in for a keyfob battery

Good reason to always buy your batteries at Walgreens and not at the dealer.

fintail

192K out of a head gasket seems reasonable to me, a lot better than some other engines (ahem, Ford 3.8 et al).

Subaru can do no wrong in the Seattle area. They could make gaskets out of paper-mache and people here would line up. Slap on a "coexist", yin yang, or "bark less wag more" sticker, and you are set. Bonus points for roof rack on all year, esp if you don't ski. It's a solid lifestyle brand.