Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

stickguy said:

Is the drone issue better with the big V6? I assume that engine does not have to rev real high to get motivation!

Yeah, it has good torque at low RPMs, but it's going to rev if you need it to take off quickly. It's more refined than the four cylinder CVT Altima I had (as it should be). 

xwesx

I think Henry is using his Passat as a DD, but I don't recall if he sold a car around the time he bought that one. I think he did say that he doesn't consider the insurance as a sunk cost associated with it, though, as he would have that cost on any vehicle he had instead of it.

Mine is definitely an "extra." I have it parked in the driveway with comprehensive only - it's just waiting for the buyback. I haven't touched it since I left on our trip a month ago. It kills me, too, because it is such a beautiful, comfortable car. I noticed on the way to work this morning that I am under a quarter tank on my Forester.... with 245 miles on the trip meter.

28firefighter

GTI is still at the dealer...no word yet from anyone. Expecting a daily update call from corporate at some point this afternoon...

Michaell

I saw just over 400 miles on the last tank with my Jetta ....

stickguy

for a car with only a 14 gallon tank, lots of range. my daughter was able to make it from home to school (about 440 miles) without having to stop to fill up, or run it right to the edge (I think the light might have some on right toward the end of the trip)

henryn

xwesx said:

I think Henry is using his Passat as a DD, but I don't recall if he sold a car around the time he bought that one. I think he did say that he doesn't consider the insurance as a sunk cost associated with it, though, as he would have that cost on any vehicle he had instead of it.

You are correct, the Passat is my DD at this point. I had just sold my 2006 Cadillac DTS, and was car shopping when this whole VW diesel buyback sprang up. And a tip of the hat to @breld for cluing us all in.

I'm actually driving the Passat more than I did the Cadillac, my truck is mainly sitting these days. I have been considering what to replace it with, if and when I do sell it back. I really like the comfort on the highway, and I absolutely love how easy it is to park.

If I could buy a new Passat TDI, or a newer model with lower mileage still under warranty, I would give that very serious consideration. I suppose I could buy a new Passat 1.8T, but I am not very fond of that engine. Every time I drive one, I can't help comparing it to the 2.0T, and it comes up lacking, big time.

Maybe I will go back to a minivan, I was shopping those when this all came up. Although now I am really enamored of how easy it is to park this Passat. If you're not living in the inner city, you will not appreciate how much that matters.

breld

Man, if you're gonna buy from EAG, I wouldn't expect to turn around and get your money back a year later...

ZHP on Craigslist

Michaell

stickguy said:

for a car with only a 14 gallon tank, lots of range. my daughter was able to make it from home to school (about 440 miles) without having to stop to fill up, or run it right to the edge (I think the light might have some on right toward the end of the trip)

I think my DTE showed 30 miles when I pulled into the gas station.

xwesx

henryn said:

Maybe I will go back to a minivan, I was shopping those when this all came up. Although now I am really enamored of how easy it is to park this Passat. If you're not living in the inner city, you will not appreciate how much that matters.

Oh, yes, the Caddy! Seems like forever ago! Hahah.

I'm enamored with quite a few details regarding my Passat, but I'm determined to see this buyback thing through. The feature set on the car just seems very well-considered in all respects. So far, the only thing at all that annoys me is the response time of the head unit, and even that was not overly annoying to me until it was mentioned by... someone... else first, which made me consider it more. LOL

I should have the new lug bolts in the mail this morning, then I get to see how well I did on modifying the winter wheels. I suspect I'll hit a huge snag considering how smoothly everything has (seemingly) gone thus far. The only troublesome part about it is my inability to find center caps for the MB wheels. I really don't like missing hub caps.

sda

henryn said:

xwesx said:

I think Henry is using his Passat as a DD, but I don't recall if he sold a car around the time he bought that one. I think he did say that he doesn't consider the insurance as a sunk cost associated with it, though, as he would have that cost on any vehicle he had instead of it.

You are correct, the Passat is my DD at this point. I had just sold my 2006 Cadillac DTS, and was car shopping when this whole VW diesel buyback sprang up. And a tip of the hat to @breld for cluing us all in.

I'm actually driving the Passat more than I did the Cadillac, my truck is mainly sitting these days. I have been considering what to replace it with, if and when I do sell it back. I really like the comfort on the highway, and I absolutely love how easy it is to park.

If I could buy a new Passat TDI, or a newer model with lower mileage still under warranty, I would give that very serious consideration. I suppose I could buy a new Passat 1.8T, but I am not very fond of that engine. Every time I drive one, I can't help comparing it to the 2.0T, and it comes up lacking, big time.

Maybe I will go back to a minivan, I was shopping those when this all came up. Although now I am really enamored of how easy it is to park this Passat. If you're not living in the inner city, you will not appreciate how much that matters.

Has your truck been repaired? It amazes me that they were able to remove those parts without anyone noticing. Incredible.

28firefighter

Mid-day update:
Dealer still cannot reproduce the problem aside from the one time that they've already repaired. They're waiting to hear back from corporate, but at this point are expecting that they'll need to reproduce it before further action can be taken.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do here. On one hand, I don't blame them, but on the other if I get the car back and it happens again (which it will), what am I supposed to do?

stickguy

dash cam (well, headrest cam) it? Strap a go pro to your head each morning, and talk through the drive.

other than that, if you can pinpoint the specific conditions, and tell them, dealer would have to keep the car and replicate the scenario. But it can be frustrating as heck.

Good news (or bad news, depending on perspective), if they just give it back, odds are something more serious is going to happen with it soon enough.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

dash cam (well, headrest cam) it? Strap a go pro to your head each morning, and talk through the drive.

other than that, if you can pinpoint the specific conditions, and tell them, dealer would have to keep the car and replicate the scenario. But it can be frustrating as heck.

Good news (or bad news, depending on perspective), if they just give it back, odds are something more serious is going to happen with it soon enough.

I guess so - extraordinarily disappointing in an 11 month old car.

stickguy

intermittent problems are the worst, especially if they don't throw a code. at least these days, you got plenty of forums to search or post your situation on. Odds are, someone else has seen it and knows what it could be.

28firefighter

The general consensus seems to be either a clutch or the dual mass flywheel (DMF).

corvette

Can you reproduce it on a test drive? Wouldn't count on it getting worse. My G6 chugged along with what was probably a bad valve body for over 10,000 miles. 

jpp75

28firefighter said:

GTI is still at the dealer...no word yet from anyone. Expecting a daily update call from corporate at some point this afternoon...

I'm riding the Touareg, had to go out of town for work. Called today to take it back in but the dealership still doesn't have power from the hurricane so it will be midweek before I can arrange to take it in and get a loaner.

jpp75

28firefighter said:

I guess so - extraordinarily disappointing in an 11 month old car.

Yes it is, granted they can replicate mine but it is disappointing.

@stickguy A code would help, wish mine would throw one to guide them down the right path but so far no codes, lights, etc.

At least my dealer has acknowledged there is a problem. I still remember how Cadillac treated @graphicguy with his first CTS. "No code, no issue"

kyfdx

breld said:

Man, if you're gonna buy from EAG, I wouldn't expect to turn around and get your money back a year later...

ZHP on Craigslist

Nice car, but the price is crazy. (unless you are EAG, evidently).

If that's the nicest ZHP on the planet (and, it probably isn't), you might pull $13K-$14K from someone that is like the guy that is selling it. (just has to have it, willing to travel, etc).

Interesting story.. sitting on a bench outside while my wife is shopping. BMW wagon goes by, with M-badging, quad exhaust and a custom rear valance, with pleasant gurgling noises coming out of the exhaust.

Lady parks the wagon, and I leer at her and with my best creepy old man voice, "Hey, that's a really nice wagon."

Turns out she is married to one of the brothers that own EAG. Naturally.

28firefighter

I can't reproduce it consistently. When it happens it happens.

Car is back with me tonight and admittedly driving fine. I'm basically SOL pending it becoming more consistent or throwing a light of some kind. 

corvette

I know you love the car, but... I'd give serious thought to filing a lemon law claim before the timeframe for doing so ends.

28firefighter

corvette said:

I know you love the car, but... I'd give serious thought to filing a lemon law claim before the timeframe for doing so ends.

So here is my issue. VW Corporate said they are willing to entertain that conversation at any time. However, my concern is that they'll argue that since they can't reproduce the issue, it doesn't exist and does not qualify for buyback. Thoughts?  I'm an Attorney by training but don't see any definition either way. 

Lemon law is 2 years/24k miles in WA, so I'm inclined to give it another couple weeks. 

Thoughts?

stickguy

if you got time on your side, wait and see.

You have it documented with service, right? Didn't they acknowledge the problem officially? So only question is if it has acutally been resolved? Though I get confused. Did you get it back, have it act up again, and take it back in?

anyway, try it a few weeks. If it acts up at all, document every detail, and take it right back in.

28firefighter

Yes. They "fixed" it last week, I took it home and it acted right up that night. I brought it back in the morning and they have not been able to reproduce it since. 

corvette

28firefighter said:

So here is my issue. VW Corporate said they are willing to entertain that conversation at any time. However, my concern is that they'll argue that since they can't reproduce the issue, it doesn't exist and does not qualify for buyback. Thoughts?  I'm an Attorney by training but don't see any definition either way. 

Lemon law is 2 years/24k miles in WA, so I'm inclined to give it another couple weeks. 

Thoughts?

GoPro video reproducing the issue (don't give them the opportunity to fix it once you've made the video), and/or some sort of seismograph recording any vibration that's occurring?

There are lemon law expert witnesses who may be able to give more specific advice, and one used to post here on Edmunds.

In my case, an affidavit from the dealer documenting the problem and the number of service visits was helpful. But, that dealer had been terminated as a result of GM's bankruptcy, and was at that point vindictive towards GM, so your mileage may vary.

28firefighter

corvette said:

So here is my issue. VW Corporate said they are willing to entertain that conversation at any time. However, my concern is that they'll argue that since they can't reproduce the issue, it doesn't exist and does not qualify for buyback. Thoughts?  I'm an Attorney by training but don't see any definition either way. 

Lemon law is 2 years/24k miles in WA, so I'm inclined to give it another couple weeks. 

Thoughts?

GoPro video reproducing the issue (don't give them the opportunity to fix it once you've made the video), and/or some sort of seismograph recording any vibration that's occurring? There are lemon law expert witnesses who may be able to give more specific advice, and one used to post here on Edmunds. In my case, an affidavit from the dealer documenting the problem and the number of service visits was helpful. But, that dealer had been terminated as a result of GM's bankruptcy, and was at that point vindictive towards GM, so your mileage may vary.

I was thinking about a GoPro but I'd have to run it all the time because I can't predict when it'll happen. 

I also would need to buy a GoPro. 

xwesx

28firefighter said:

So here is my issue. VW Corporate said they are willing to entertain that conversation at any time. However, my concern is that they'll argue that since they can't reproduce the issue, it doesn't exist and does not qualify for buyback. Thoughts?  I'm an Attorney by training but don't see any definition either way. 

Lemon law is 2 years/24k miles in WA, so I'm inclined to give it another couple weeks. 

Thoughts?

Yep; give it time. It will reproduce and, most likely, will become more consistent. Just don't be tempted to baby it in the meantime!

xwesx

xwesx said:

I should have the new lug bolts in the mail this morning, then I get to see how well I did on modifying the winter wheels. I suspect I'll hit a huge snag considering how smoothly everything has (seemingly) gone thus far. The only troublesome part about it is my inability to find center caps for the MB wheels. I really don't like missing hub caps.

So, contrary to typical fashion, I had zero issues with the wheels. I bolted them all on the car tonight and it is ready to roll! That's not too bad considering I had to drill out the wheels (that's twenty opportunities for a problem) and add resizing rings to match the VW hub size (56.7 mm vs. the 66.6 of the wheels).

graphicguy

jpp5862 said:

28firefighter said:

I guess so - extraordinarily disappointing in an 11 month old car.

Yes it is, granted they can replicate mine but it is disappointing.

@stickguy A code would help, wish mine would throw one to guide them down the right path but so far no codes, lights, etc.

At least my dealer has acknowledged there is a problem. I still remember how Cadillac treated @graphicguy with his first CTS. "No code, no issue"

That just brought back memories......YIKES!

Yeah....not sure how much of a deep dive dealerships are willing to do on warranty work, given there is only a set amount the manufacturer will pay them to find the problem, and then the fix.

It confounds me that dealerships state they have the "manufacturer looking into it" when problems arise. What can the factory do? They don't have the car. How much can they possibly diagnose being remote?

FF.....hope you get some answers and they fix your car. It's a real PITA and frustrating when you get in a scenario like this.

qbrozen

xwesx said:

I should have the new lug bolts in the mail this morning, then I get to see how well I did on modifying the winter wheels. I suspect I'll hit a huge snag considering how smoothly everything has (seemingly) gone thus far. The only troublesome part about it is my inability to find center caps for the MB wheels. I really don't like missing hub caps.

So, contrary to typical fashion, I had zero issues with the wheels. I bolted them all on the car tonight and it is ready to roll! That's not too bad considering I had to drill out the wheels (that's twenty opportunities for a problem) and add resizing rings to match the VW hub size (56.7 mm vs. the 66.6 of the wheels).

Sorry, but I wasn't following closely. What was the drilling about? Wrong bolt size or wrong pattern?

stickguy

GG, I wonder if they punt to the head office to get it off of their books? Meaning, they would have to get reimbursed for any extra time spent on it, vs. just normal working on the car?

I assume these days, with all the diagnostics and video capability, that an engineer back at HQ can do a lot. They can see all the data coming out of the computers, and watch on video what is happening. Pretty much everything short of putting hands on it, so still need a tech to follow those directions.

Hopefully the real reason is that they have a lot more knowledge and resources to figure out what to try in the first place.

stickguy

and of course, have to add the obligatory, don't have these problems with a stick shift! Leaning me even more to get back into the shift yourself business if I get a Civic, just to avoid the CVT.

qbrozen

To provide an update on my hunting, here are the scores of the top 3 thus far. Still to be driven are the 2 Infinitis.

H3: 18.5
Terrain: 16.2
XC60: 16.1

The Q5 3.0T trails by a bit in 4th place at 15.0 due to high cost of ownership and low reliability. The H3 is going to be tough to upset. Seems weird, but its true. Comfort, high reliability, and low cost of ownership help bolster it enough to overcome the lack of fun. If either of the Infinitis can score a perfect 5 in comfort, and meet or exceed my expectation of fun, they can just barely topple the H3.

ab348

stickguy said:

and of course, have to add the obligatory, don't have these problems with a stick shift! Leaning me even more to get back into the shift yourself business if I get a Civic, just to avoid the CVT.

Go talk to @driver100 about his stick shift A4.

breld

Just browsing local inventory of used manual trannie Hondas.

This is very cool in its own right, but who's paying $10k for it?

Vintage Prelude

I mean, if (and it's a big IF) you can find a nice example of a Prelude like @nyccarguy's, I'm pretty sure you could get it for $10k.

corvette

The visibility and gas mileage on the H3 would deter me. I'm surprised that it's comfortable. Maybe I'm just bised against them! 

qbrozen

That's a pretty neat classic. I agree $10k is shooting for the moon, though, and it isn't exactly a pristine example.

fintail

I just knew it would have a red velour interior. I think 90% of these had sunroofs, too. Maybe to a collector of fun late malaise vehicles - for 5K or so. Neat car, but 10K would have to be a final run car with delivery miles only, or maybe a near zero mile pristine example of a 4WS Si car, I'd take a 92-94-ish.

breld said:

Just browsing local inventory of used manual trannie Hondas.

This is very cool in its own right, but who's paying $10k for it?

Vintage Prelude

I mean, if (and it's a big IF) you can find a nice example of a Prelude like @nyccarguy's, I'm pretty sure you could get it for $10k.

nyccarguy

@breld - I wouldn't pay $10K for my car. Even in showroom condition (which mine is far from).

Most of us are in the "there's no replacement for displacement" frame of mind when it comes to Mustangs, Camaros, & Challengers. I just read an article about Ford releasing a Performance Pack for 2.3L Turbo 4cyl Mustangs that give them a total of 335hp & 390 lb/ft of torque. $699 & it's fully warrantied by Ford. Might be worth a test drive at least.

breld

fintail said:

I just knew it would have a red velour interior. I think 90% of these had sunroofs, too. Maybe to a collector of fun late malaise vehicles - for 5K or so. Neat car, but 10K would have to be a final run car with delivery miles only, or maybe a near zero mile pristine example of a 4WS Si car, I'd take a 92-94-ish.

breld said:

Just browsing local inventory of used manual trannie Hondas.

This is very cool in its own right, but who's paying $10k for it?

Vintage Prelude

I mean, if (and it's a big IF) you can find a nice example of a Prelude like @nyccarguy's, I'm pretty sure you could get it for $10k.

I was a fan of the '88-'91 Preludes. I was targeting a 1991 Prelude Si when I graduated college, but ended up with the next gen 1993 model, which I loved.

Now I have Preludes on my mind - this seems nice, though from what I understand a buyer may actually shy away from the Type SH for repairs/maintenance reasons.

2001 Prelude

nyccarguy

The big thing is maintenance. Replacing the clutch on my 2001 Prelude Type SH almost made me trade the car in. With 52,000 miles my stock clutch burnt out. Replacing it with an aftermarket clutch, new Honda flywheel, & new Honda throw out bearing, at the dealer cost me well over $2,000. The ATTS unit has to be removed & reinstalled (an extra 5 hours of labor according to the Honda shop manual) in order for the clutch to be replaced.

28firefighter

To @nyccarguy, @sandman_6472, and anyone else who celebrates Yom Kippur: May you and yours be sealed in the book of life for a good year. Have an easy and meaningful fast tomorrow.

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

To @nyccarguy, @sandman_6472, and anyone else who celebrates Yom Kippur: May you and yours be sealed in the book of life for a good year. Have an easy and meaningful fast tomorrow.

Thank-you @28firefighter. To you & your family as well. Have an easy fast.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

To provide an update on my hunting, here are the scores of the top 3 thus far. Still to be driven are the 2 Infinitis.

H3: 18.5
Terrain: 16.2
XC60: 16.1

The Q5 3.0T trails by a bit in 4th place at 15.0 due to high cost of ownership and low reliability. The H3 is going to be tough to upset. Seems weird, but its true. Comfort, high reliability, and low cost of ownership help bolster it enough to overcome the lack of fun. If either of the Infinitis can score a perfect 5 in comfort, and meet or exceed my expectation of fun, they can just barely topple the H3.

Have you shared your scoring system with us before? I'm curious how you set this up, and I'm sure those amateurs among us (raises hand) could benefit from your wisdom here!

stickguy

Just do a big spreadsheet with all the categories, weight them, then buy whichever shiny object catches your eye.

Very technical.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Sorry, but I wasn't following closely. What was the drilling about? Wrong bolt size or wrong pattern?

Oh, yes, well.... I've made a few intermittent comments over the last month on the topic, so not an easy one to follow!

I was looking for a set of "winter" rims for the Passat back in August, and I came a cross a set of old 16" stock alloys that came off a 1997 MB E320. They had the same bolt pattern (5x112) as my car and, as an added bonus, they also had a set of studded tires (lightly used) mounted on them, so I thought I would give them a shot. When I arrived at the place, I noted immediately that the aluminum on the rim was very thick at the mounting holes compared to the appearance of mine, which concerned me, but I went ahead and tried one on. I quickly found out that they allowed a 12mm bolt (mine are 14mm), so the bolts wouldn't fit, but otherwise seemed workable.

The lady who owned them said she was moving south in a week and needed them gone, so, if I was willing to use them, I could just have them. I protested that I had not brought cash with me due to the short notice of the visit, but she didn't want payment, she just wanted me to take them. So, I did.

In order to fit them, I ended up drilling out the mounting holes (which were about 22mm deep) to 9/16" using an old low-speed drill I fondly call "The Arm Breaker." This involved alignment and boring by hand, which was a very delicate process! I also installed some downsizing hub-centric rings to get good alignment on them at the VW 56.7mm size, and had to buy a new set of 14mmx1.5 lug bolts with 40mm shanks (stock is 25mm) to deal with the depth of the aluminum. All told, though, I spent about $110 on parts and tools to do the work, and had no alignment issues when installing them.

Now, it should be an easy (safer) task to drive the car to Anchorage in the middle of winter for the buyback.

qbrozen

xwesx said:

qbrozen said:

To provide an update on my hunting, here are the scores of the top 3 thus far. Still to be driven are the 2 Infinitis.

H3: 18.5
Terrain: 16.2
XC60: 16.1

The Q5 3.0T trails by a bit in 4th place at 15.0 due to high cost of ownership and low reliability. The H3 is going to be tough to upset. Seems weird, but its true. Comfort, high reliability, and low cost of ownership help bolster it enough to overcome the lack of fun. If either of the Infinitis can score a perfect 5 in comfort, and meet or exceed my expectation of fun, they can just barely topple the H3.

Have you shared your scoring system with us before? I'm curious how you set this up, and I'm sure those amateurs among us (raises hand) could benefit from your wisdom here!

As stick said, but mine isn't terribly big. You gotta weight the categories based on your preferences, of course. My categories are Desire, Reliability, Fun, Cost of Ownership, and Comfort. All are on a scale of 1-5, with reliability counted at 90% (meaning a highest possible score of 4.5), fun at 80%, COO at 60%, and Desire and Comfort at a full 100% each.

qbrozen

xwesx said:

qbrozen said:

Sorry, but I wasn't following closely. What was the drilling about? Wrong bolt size or wrong pattern?

Oh, yes, well.... I've made a few intermittent comments over the last month on the topic, so not an easy one to follow!

I was looking for a set of "winter" rims for the Passat back in August, and I came a cross a set of old 16" stock alloys that came off a 1997 MB E320. They had the same bolt pattern (5x112) as my car and, as an added bonus, they also had a set of studded tires (lightly used) mounted on them, so I thought I would give them a shot. When I arrived at the place, I noted immediately that the aluminum on the rim was very thick at the mounting holes compared to the appearance of mine, which concerned me, but I went ahead and tried one on. I quickly found out that they allowed a 12mm bolt (mine are 14mm), so the bolts wouldn't fit, but otherwise seemed workable.

The lady who owned them said she was moving south in a week and needed them gone, so, if I was willing to use them, I could just have them. I protested that I had not brought cash with me due to the short notice of the visit, but she didn't want payment, she just wanted me to take them. So, I did.

In order to fit them, I ended up drilling out the mounting holes (which were about 22mm deep) to 9/16" using an old low-speed drill I fondly call "The Arm Breaker." This involved alignment and boring by hand, which was a very delicate process! I also installed some downsizing hub-centric rings to get good alignment on them at the VW 56.7mm size, and had to buy a new set of 14mmx1.5 lug bolts with 40mm shanks (stock is 25mm) to deal with the depth of the aluminum. All told, though, I spent about $110 on parts and tools to do the work, and had no alignment issues when installing them.

Now, it should be an easy (safer) task to drive the car to Anchorage in the middle of winter for the buyback.

ah, OK. Not too bad. Nice job. Did you do anything to seal the exposed aluminum inside the newly drilled holes?

xwesx

qbrozen said:

ah, OK. Not too bad. Nice job. Did you do anything to seal the exposed aluminum inside the newly drilled holes?

No, I've never heard a thing about that, but it definitely makes sense given the tendency for corrosion w/ different metal types in contact, etc. Is there a product out there with which to do that?

qbrozen

Maybe just some coats of clearcoat?