Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

fintail

If the Leaf warranty is that long, I wonder why they have the resale value of week old bread. Maybe anxiety over what happens when the warranty runs out? Even deducting for the tax gift, a comparably priced conventional car of the same age will be considerably more expensive. You can't get a 2011 Civrolla for 5K.

andres3

I've heard that the batteries in these electrical cars lose range/capacity over time and with each recharge.

suydam

It's a more limited buying segment and a new Leaf is just around the corner. Remember, Corolla and Civic have had decades of brand reliability. The Leaf is a comparative newcomer.

kyfdx

fintail said:

If the Leaf warranty is that long, I wonder why they have the resale value of week old bread. Maybe anxiety over what happens when the warranty runs out? Even deducting for the tax gift, a comparably priced conventional car of the same age will be considerably more expensive. You can't get a 2011 Civrolla for 5K.

They have the worst range of any electric. Plenty of people could possibly live with it, but most people are searching for no-worry transportation.

suydam

I see a lot of them here in SoCal. It's a cheap around town second car.

Michaell

I've actually seen a fair number of Leafs here in Colorado. I would think the cold weather would have a big impact on range. But, as a second car, I can sort of see it.

In fact, given the type of driving I do, I could maybe live with it.

Nah - who am I kidding?

tifighter

cdnpinhead said:

Michaell said:

Why not inductive charging? Just drive the car onto a charging "mat" and walk away.

Heck, if they can do it with smart phones, they ought to be able to scale the technology up for cars!

If you're talking a few watts (as in handheld devices), the fact that inductive coupling isn't especially efficient doesn't matter. If you're talking kilowatts, well, it does. A significantly lower percentage of the power that's put into the "pad" gets to the battery. The rest goes into a convenience factor which, based on past experience, will eventually be labeled as evil by the greenies.

Spot on. The efficiency is the issue. Still, you can buy an inductive setup for an EV right now, like this one. They claim 12% efficiency loss. It will get better over time. I think you'll start to see this as a factory option on next gen EV's.

xwesx

andres3 said:

A few cars on this bottom 13 list are going to make some unhappy:

http://www2.forbes.com/business/13-new-cars-to-avoid-for-2016/

Fixed my link.

So, I learned from that: three years old is the sweet spot for (some) Jeeps. Brutal depreciation over the first three years, but they sorta level off after that.

Sandman6472

Also drove about 4 new Elantra's today and I must admit, they do drive very nicely. Hit the accelerator and off it goes, shifts very quietly...just does everything right! Going to make sure my kid tries one out before she buys next time as last time, she wanted an Elantra but it was a bit too much for what she/we had saved. But Hyundai has done an excellent job with this new generation one which truly is, a 3/4 Sonata. Hertz bought a mess load of them and folks seem to like them. And the best thing is, they have a regular tranny, not a CVT!!! Starting to really hate CVT's now.
Stopped by the local Subaru/Lexus store to bring a co-worker to pick up one of our rentals earlier and finally saw the new Imprezza wagons. Very nice and just my perfect size. Saw a regular one and a sportier one with larger wheels and was very impressed. Didn't like the last generation so passed but will look closely at this new one when I do start my search in a few years. When the mid-model refresh happens will be around the time frame I have in mind. And hopefully the mileage penalty for AWD vehicles will be somewhat smaller than it is now. And luckily, the Subaru dealer is right up the street, near the Audi and VW stores so very convienent.

The Sandman

Sandman6472

And we're still the only house on the street that can park both vehicles in the garage. The others use theirs for storage areas with one other only able to fit one of their vehicles in it. Have always found it strange that folks have somewhat nice vehicles just sitting outside while their garages are stuffed with "stuff", a lot of "stuff". Just blows my mind really. After work tonight, stopped over at the car wash and had it washed and just parked my clean vehicle in it's side of the garage. Definitely stays cleaner longer!

The Sandman

corvette

andres3 said:

A few cars on this bottom 13 list are going to make some unhappy:

http://www2.forbes.com/business/13-new-cars-to-avoid-for-2016/

I've never driven one, but I'm not sure why the Pathfinder gets dogged so much--is it really that different than my Murano (which is a great, if unexciting, vehicle)? Seems to me like the Explorer vs. the Edge.

suydam

I thought in it's a little more truck-y.

Sandman6472

Have them at Hertz, they are trucky and a bit awkward to drive. The Rogue's are so much more driveable, and a bit fun too. They did a slight refresh for 2017 and it looks good. Starting to see a few new Murano's in the fleet but haven't gotten any drive time with one yet. From that Forbes article, looks like Nissan is coming out with a special smaller Rogue, but to me, looked just like a regular one. Maybe it's going to be the size of the Mazda CX-3? If so, might have to take a look in a few years. At this point, small is the only way to go for us since we're empty nesters now and the girls who live local have their own small wheels. My son and his fiance live out of town in Chicago but she has a car so they plan to share that as I hear parking is an issue in the big city.

The Sandman

suydam

I agree, small is the way once children are grown. Unless you're a serious outdoors, DIYer, or horse person (I have friends who are).

js06gv

I know it's been discussed here before about how this doesn't technically count as a punch, but I bought out my daughter's Optima lease today and took a conventional loan for the balance. Really like this car, and considering the extra lease cash I took advantage of back in August I came out ahead by going this route vs. buying at that time. Had to text her at college for the odometer statement mileage - 6,436. Other than a defective speaker and a slow leak tire that the dealer replaced for me since it was low on air at delivery, no problems with it. Among other features, the adaptive cruise on this car (my first so equipped) really blows me away. I've tested it under several conditions and even watched in amazement one day when the car came to a slow complete stop at a light without me ever touching the brake. Looks like this one is a keeper.

qbrozen

I gotta ask: why buy it out now vs waiting till lease end?

js06gv

qbrozen said:

I gotta ask: why buy it out now vs waiting till lease end?

For a car I now know I want to keep, I did the math and financing from this point forward was more cost effective than the combination of 30 remaining lease payments plus the residual. So basically I got the benefit of the extra lease cash that was available vs what the rebate was had I bought at the time. I did something similar 10 years ago when I bought a new Santa Fe. Hyundai had a huge rebate on the front end when you signed up for one of their balloon deals. Interest rate was higher but I only kept that loan for one month and then refinanced for a normal rate. Doesn't work on every deal but if you do your homework it can save you money on some.

nyccarguy

@js06gv - I'm curious too.  I understand taking advantage of the heaps of less cash idea, but how did the math work out?  Isn't it the residual plus remaining payments now vs. paying the payments until the lease is up & then financing the residual the same thing?  

Can you walk me through the math?

js06gv

@nyccarguy - 30 more payments plus the residual ended up being right at $2,000 more than the current buyout I just financed. Plus I was able to finance it as a new car since its only 6 months old. Rate won't make a huge difference, but it would certainly be higher in 2.5 years when I went to finance the residual.

qbrozen

I don't get how you got a break. Usually leases make you pay everything regardless of when you do it. Very strange. 

kyfdx

Generally, when you buy out a lease early, you don't pay for all of the finance charges on the remaining payments. If you check your payoff, it will be less than (residual + remaining payments).

Would the vehicle have been cheaper overall if purchased from the beginning? Probably. But, buying it out now vs. at lease-end might not be any more expensive. Especially if the low lease payment came from a lot of incentives, but the money factor is relatively high.

A lot of this changes, depending on your state tax laws. If you pay all of your taxes upfront (like NJ, NY, etc), then you've sunk those costs, even if you rolled them into your lease. That would hurt an early buyout. If your tax is paid monthly (MI, KY, CA, etc), then the tax has little effect.

Either way, once I've paid acquisition fees, etc, etc.. I'd ride the lease out, to get the advantages from leasing (turning it back in, even after high collision repairs; finding out that it goes in for a repair every three months, etc). You can make a more informed decision at the three year mark, about whether you still need/want that car.

nyccarguy

js06gv said:

@nyccarguy - 30 more payments plus the residual ended up being right at $2,000 more than the current buyout I just financed. Plus I was able to finance it as a new car since its only 6 months old. Rate won't make a huge difference, but it would certainly be higher in 2.5 years when I went to finance the residual.

And you are in TX, where they tax the car's full value even though you are leasing, right?  So that's where the $2K comes from?

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

Generally, when you buy out a lease early, you don't pay for all of the finance charges on the remaining payments. If you check your payoff, it will be less than (residual + remaining payments). Would the vehicle have been cheaper overall if purchased from the beginning? Probably. But, buying it out now vs. at lease-end might not be any more expensive. Especially if the low lease payment came from a lot of incentives, but the money factor is relatively high. A lot of this changes, depending on your state tax laws. If you pay all of your taxes upfront (like NJ, NY, etc), then you've sunk those costs, even if you rolled them into your lease. That would hurt an early buyout. If your tax is paid monthly (MI, KY, CA, etc), then the tax has little effect. Either way, once I've paid acquisition fees, etc, etc.. I'd ride the lease out, to get the advantages from leasing (turning it back in, even after high collision repairs; finding out that it goes in for a repair every three months, etc). You can make a more informed decision at the three year mark, about whether you still need/want that car.

Hmmm...I have never been given a break on interest on a lease. You sign to pay x payments at $x and they want every penny. So when I have terminated early, I owe total of all payments. Period. Maybe states differ in that regard.

nyccarguy

js06gv said:

qbrozen said:

I gotta ask: why buy it out now vs waiting till lease end?

For a car I now know I want to keep, I did the math and financing from this point forward was more cost effective than the combination of 30 remaining lease payments plus the residual. So basically I got the benefit of the extra lease cash that was available vs what the rebate was had I bought at the time. I did something similar 10 years ago when I bought a new Santa Fe. Hyundai had a huge rebate on the front end when you signed up for one of their balloon deals. Interest rate was higher but I only kept that loan for one month and then refinanced for a normal rate. Doesn't work on every deal but if you do your homework it can save you money on some.

I'm glad you are happy with the car!

js06gv

kyfdx said:

Generally, when you buy out a lease early, you don't pay for all of the finance charges on the remaining payments. If you check your payoff, it will be less than (residual + remaining payments).

Correct, and that's the way it worked out for me although again I wouldn't expect this to be the case for everyone as it would depend upon the particular deal. I did roll in tax and license, as full tax is owed in Texas. I also didn't pay a dime out of pocket other than first month up front as that's how I structured the lease. Getting an almost $36K car for just a hair over $29K helped, as there was a good dealer discount on top of the lease cash. I'm a bit of a grinder in that regard I suppose, but like most in this forum I do my homework. Residual might be considered on the high side at 56%, so mitigating that now to avoid a residual right at $20K later also worked in my favor. This car will depreciate at a good enough clip to where buying at that residual may not be the best financial move. @nyccarguy - the $2K offset had nothing to do with the sales tax, as I would've been paying that in full either way I went. Fortunately, TX law says that since I already paid the proper amount of full sales tax I don't pay it a second time when the title changes hands with this transaction, other than something like a $33 fee to the state for paperwork.

In fact, the only thing I regret is not doing this even sooner, like a couple of months into the lease as my savings would've been even greater. However, as much as I liked the 2014 Optima it replaced that car did have a few bugs that never got worked out. Nothing major, but annoying enough to me that I wanted a little more seat time in the new one before deciding if I wanted it long term. So that was my trade off.

Maybe there is a penalty in some leases to pay off early? Mine didn't have one, but could see where that would make a substantial difference.

roadburner

If we decide to keep the i3 I am going to wait until the end of the lease, turn it in, and let my dealer buy it from BMW FS.

houdini1

One of the benefits of working at BMW. Nice inside track on some great cars !

graphicguy

Pics

roadburner

It does help, but I know some people on the i3 forums who did the same thing.

graphicguy

Well....for some reason Flickr isn't working

Michaell

While I was out running errands today, I hit this milestone in the Jetta:

tbirdmarco

@corvette I no no idea y the Pathfinder is alwas getting an bad rap. ever since this jen came out in 2013 test drove one with my mom she was driving afcorse lol. seamed to drive same is the marano. and the way the maxima drives to not exciting but all around nice package. it is the 4 sil cars with c v ts that are not so good. but have to say the Altima my brother has with the 4 sil drives good for what it is.

tbirdmarco

@sandman_6472 you have not had an chance do drive an new marano yet! wow they have bin out for an few years now. hmm. hope you do get to drive one soon.

tbirdmarco

@js06gv nice glad it is all yourse now.

graphicguy

cdnpinhead said:

graphicguy said:

. . . It was replaced with a Hyundai Elantra......assuming 2016 or 2017 as it only had 600 miles on it....smelled new.

Very impressed with it. Smooth motor, unobtrusive trans, comfortable, plenty of room....little light in the steering dept, but I kind of expect that. Once again, for a base Elantra, it had a pretty nice sounding stereo.

I can see why so many people here drive and like them. What do they sell for (base, automatic)?

I've rented a few of these as well and have a similar reaction. My wife and I enjoyed one from Boston to the tip of Newfoundland and back last fall -- totally satisfactory.

The bar is being raised.

True...couple of times I thought it had "stop/start" feature while stopped at a red light. It was that quiet with absolutely no vibration.

stickguy

Michael, I finally cracked 15K on the Sonata today. And only 8 months to go before I return it!

Michaell

stickguy said:

Michael, I finally cracked 15K on the Sonata today. And only 8 months to go before I return it!

At this rate, I'll likely have around 18,000 miles on the Jetta at the end of the lease. Might actually be a good candidate for a buyout.

stickguy

mine might be, but I suspect the residual is inflated. Plus MSRP was something like $33k, so ever a normal residual is going to be close to $20k, and I ain't paying that for it!

stickguy

I should really sit down and write out an updated list of cars to consider or test drive. 8 months will slip by before you know it! My wife is "really" looking forward to spending the summer and fall out shopping!

Michaell

stickguy said:

I should really sit down and write out an updated list of cars to consider or test drive. 8 months will slip by before you know it! My wife is "really" looking forward to spending the summer and fall out shopping!

Gee, you could go to your profile and look at all your comments from the past 9-12 months...

houdini1

iluvmysephia1 said:

I spotted a 2017 Toyota Yaris iA going for $14,975 in the Kansas City area. That dealer offers a Lifetime new car Warranty. All you have to do is get all the service in your manual done. You don't have to get it done there at that Toyota dealer, you just have to get it done per Toyota specs. That sounds good to me. The iA color is abyss, which, to you and me, means dark blue!

Where do they get these color names? The price includes a $1,500 Toyota rebate, which expires 2/28/17. So I'll have to move quick if I'm going to go for it.

This is the one here - it looks black to me but it's "Abyss" - dark blue. Tuesday, February 26 would be next free day to go trade my Soul...ahem, that is, my 2011 Kia Soul for it. This is the lowest-priced iA in KC and they don't go any lower than this. I'll ask Mrs. iluv ta go along with me if she wants to. I'm hoping she will - she'll love the car - it's worth much more than $14,975.

Just checking around the KC area and Hendrick Nissan has a bunch of brand new 2017 Versa's for $11,600. Might be something to check out.

tjc78

stickguy said:

I should really sit down and write out an updated list of cars to consider or test drive. 8 months will slip by before you know it! My wife is "really" looking forward to spending the summer and fall out shopping!

Well 8 months is what 240 days (give or take) if you do two, maybe 3 on Saturdays you might just get all your test drives in

corvette

Look at this old Hertz ad (from when GM owned Hertz). I'm too young to know, but apparently, rentals used to include unlimited gas and oil, and insurance, and you could drop the car off at a different destination without a surcharge.

https://www.autoslash.com/blog-and-tips/posts/remember-when-hertz-allowed-one-to-rent-1950-s-gm-icons

tbirdmarco

@corvette wow man how the times have changed. way before my time. kind of wish sumtimes was around back in the day. the cars wher a lot cooler mor stile less to go rong wih them a lot les complex than now. hope that everyone had an good weekand. have an good upcumming week to all.

nyccarguy

@Marcothecarguy1986 - you have a good week too!  You made me laugh the other day with your "test drive" comment.

corvette

One of my friends posted the odometer of her Corolla on Facebook. 300,000 miles. It's a 9th generation model (2000-2006). She's the antithesis of most of us! I remember she hit a deer a year or two ago and was really upset that the trusty old steed might be too far gone to fix.

nyccarguy

300,000 miles in a Corolla?  Surprised she hasn't died of boredom

cdnpinhead

Yeah, stone solid reliability is boring. I've had some really nail-biting drives over the years wondering if the vehicle would make it to the next place where I might be able to fix it, usually in the middle of the night and often on the weekend. I think I'm over it, though.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

300,000 miles in a Corolla?  Surprised she hasn't died of boredom

You do realize that, in the world of cars, we're the 1%'ers. We care about style, performance, handling, features, the deal we got, how soon we'll be trading in our current car for our next one, etc.

Most folks don't.

Most folks want something reliable, good on gas, comfortable, reliable, some nice tech, low maintenance costs, and, did I say, reliable?

xwesx

cdnpinhead said:

Yeah, stone solid reliability is boring. I've had some really nail-biting drives over the years wondering if the vehicle would make it to the next place where I might be able to fix it, usually in the middle of the night and often on the weekend. I think I'm over it, though.

I have had so many fun times under similar circumstances. Okay, so maybe these are not the most "fun" at the time, but they do make for some of the better stories and certainly some of the most enduring memories!