Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

graphicguy

tifighter said:

Here's a question for the CCBA congregation - have any of you ever bought an ex-rental?

Discuss…

My younger sister did. It was a Nissan...I think an Altima (wasn't small, wasn't large). It was probably 4-5 years ago. I don't think she had any issues with the drivetrain. It was everything else. It had somewhere in the neigborhood of about 30K miles, I think.

In brief, although it looked fine when she bought it, time started revealing some of its history. Seats developed some sort of mold on the cloth seat covers....presumably from spills that dried but were never properly cleaned. Different trim pieces fell off because tabs were broken and pieces were just glued back on. Hers was smoked in (they masked it temporarily with some sort of sanitizer, but the smell came back) as she found burn holes in the carpets in the back seat. Found them in the seat itself, too (She didn't look in the back seat more than to briefly look at it, plus it was black and the burn holes were hard to see).

Some of the switches went bad, presumably because of sodas being spilled and consequently they were sporadically inoperative (obviously operated during the test drive).

There were other niggly things that kept going wrong. The paint wasn't in all that good of shape. Lots of chips and swirls (they must have used nothing but plastic brushes to wash it), but no rust.

Long and short of it, it had a warranty that came with it from the rental agency (Avis?). But, it didn't have one from Nissan given they considered it a commercial vehicle and the hassle of taking it in for service over and over made her trade it after about one year. I don't think it was that long of a warranty, either and it was drivetrain specific (again, not clear on the details). She took a hit on resale, also. Apparently, if a dealer looks up a car's history and sees rental, they ding it pretty heavily on a trade.

I don't think she even got that great of a deal on it, either. She bought it under the guise of being well cared for by the rental car company. Yeah, they changed the oil and probably did the routine stuff. They vacuumed it regularly, and mostly cleaned any surface dirt in and out. But, it was the other stuff that really soured her experience.

Clearly, she did not consult me before inspection and purchase.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Suppose instead of EVs, it was the Telsa Toilet Bowl company. Given their profit/loss statements over the past 5 years, would you invest in them?

Of course not. Tesla is a "story" stock. You are investing in the story because you believe it. You have no rational grounding--it's a leap of faith.

Shifty...I get what you're saying. You're sort of right, but not entirely, IMHO. Tesla is the long term play for investors. Annual, even quarterly results, don't matter. Tesla and investors are looking at the future as being filled with EVs. Plus, the intellectual property that results from Tesla's work will play in a whole lot of products, in a whole lot of industries. Maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow. But, it will.

Then again, I see a toilet bowl in my near future, so many you're on to something.

nyccarguy

I don't know the 1st thing about investing, so I can't shed light on TESLA as a company. Although as a (future) business owner, I do know that the purpose of being in business is to MAKE MONEY. They are having problems manufacturing parts for crashed TESLAs. I recently read an article where these people have been waiting for 7 months for a rear hatch. Their insurance stopped paying for a rental, they are driving one of their parents' spare cars, and still paying the monthly note.

As a car enthusiast, I do think the concept of TESLAs and EVs in general are a cool idea. My friend who has the P85D Model S told me there are less than 20 moving parts on the whole car (and 4 are the wheels). I think the Model X SUV styling is awkward. My kids like the Model S and are always quick to point them out when we see them (which is often).

There is a SUPERCHARGER at the start of the Merritt parkway (Northbound) as well as at the end (Southbound) which is about 12 minutes away from my house without traffic. If I had the money to afford a $75K + Model S, would I take the plunge? Nope. Not while they still make Porsches with good old internal combustion engines. Would I spend $35 - $50K on one of these new model 3s? Nope. In a few years when they sort the bugs out of the model 3s, and I can find a used Blue one with a Power trunk for my wife to drive at a reasonable price, would I consider it? Sure.

kyfdx

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Suppose instead of EVs, it was the Telsa Toilet Bowl company. Given their profit/loss statements over the past 5 years, would you invest in them?

Of course not. Tesla is a "story" stock. You are investing in the story because you believe it. You have no rational grounding--it's a leap of faith.

Shifty...I get what you're saying. You're sort of right, but not entirely, IMHO. Tesla is the long term play for investors. Annual, even quarterly results, don't matter. Tesla and investors are looking at the future as being filled with EVs. Plus, the intellectual property that results from Tesla's work will play in a whole lot of products, in a whole lot of industries. Maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow. But, it will.

Then again, I see a toilet bowl in my near future, so many you're on to something.

I think you just confirmed Shifty's thesis. It's a story stock. You just told the story.

But, I wouldn't bet against it. Because, they have shown an almost unlimited ability to raise money, whether it's through debt or selling equity. As long as they can do that, they can theoretically stay in business forever, whether they ever turn a profit, or not.

fintail

Funny what happens when the insane subsidies are stopped

corvette

tifighter said:

Here's a question for the CCBA congregation - have any of you ever bought an ex-rental?

Discuss…

Both of my Altimas were ex-rentals. No issues with either! 

imidazol97

tifighter said:

Here's a question for the CCBA congregation - have any of you ever bought an ex-rental?

I bought the 2008 Cobalt at about 1.5 years and 22,000 mi that was a lease car to a company. It was a CPO at a GM dealer, had a CarFax that appeared correct. Because it was under 36000/3 yr I could buy a GMPP warranty from a discounting dealer in PA and cover it for lots of years and miles. It's now at 98.5K. The OnStar had to be set up to work again because the microphone wasn't working.

I bought a 2015 Cruze from another GM dealer as a CPO at about 24000 mi and less than 1 year in service. High options with 2LT and remote start, etc.. It showed as a rental on the CarFax. No problems with it other than a purge valve that stuck a week or so after purchase. It had sat on the lot for a couple of months because other CPO Cruzes were cheaper because of less options on them. I figured the purge valve out myself and got it to dealer for verification and replacement. Also bought a GMEP extended warranty from Cadillac/GMC dealer online in PA. The CPO gave 2 years from date of purchase and up to 4 oil changes with tire rotations. The large dealer group sells about every usual brand from Cadillac to Hyundai within it, and they have a center where all the vehicles come for cleaning, inspection, and repairs. They replaced a few things on the car as a part of prepping it for the sales lot. Even the cabin air filter was replaced.

ab348

tifighter said:

Here's a question for the CCBA congregation - have any of you ever bought an ex-rental?

My 2002 Olds Intrigue was a GM Certified used car that I bought in 2003. I believe it was an ex-Avis rental. Had about 10,000 miles on it. It only showed a bit of rental evidence - some dried-on soft drink drops on a few hard surfaces that were a bit stubborn to get off. Even though most of the rental fleets were no-smoking even then, this one did develop a bit of smoke odor on humid days after a while, but nothing serious. I cleaned the interior a couple of times over the first year and that took care of it. Good car otherwise.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

I always assume the worst on a CL ad, but if this is legit as described, a pretty good deal.

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/6213594159.html

Well 17 years old, 150K miles, and no doubt it needs *something*, so sounds about right to me.

stickguy

Poked around a few dealers instead. Odds of striking gold on CL these days, must be really low. But here are a few, though likely have to bump budget to $10K

Light on options, but has the right # of pedals, and low low miles. wish they had pictures. Might have to stop in and scope out. Though pretty sure I would draw the line on giving up the BU camera, at least on something this big.

https://www.burnshonda.com/vehicle-details/used-2009-honda-accord-sedan-lx-p-1HGCP25459A084020

Newer style. Much more stuff on it. No stick of course and more miles, but probably not too expensive for a 2012. Not like I put a lot of miles on anyway. 1 owner. Still no camera though. That would bug me.

https://www.burnshonda.com/vehicle-details/used-2012-honda-accord-sedan-ex-l-1HGCP2F81CA136056

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYcZUAUbdM8

tbirdmarco

@stickguy nice maxima!

tbirdmarco

@nyccarguy starting to think used is the way to go! think rote mom is going to go soon no mor leesing! what ever works for everyone!

Sandman6472

Bought a 1979 Datsun 210 hatchback in early 1981 which was an ex-rental with about 17K on the clock. Drove nicely and we kept it till mid 1998 when I traded for a Toyota Corolla FX hatch, a neat silver 3 door which I used as my commuter vehicle. The kids were all small and loved it!
That Datsun 210 was a maroon over plaid cloth which eventually got those Crager sport wheels which definitely improved the look. After some paint issues due to the South Florida heat, had it repainted white about a year before it was cut from the herd. Started to nickel & dime us to death so with the trade and a $5K gift from my grandmother, we were still $1K short with everything out the door. My father-in-law heard what was going on and within an hour, he handed me the $1K cash and said go get it now! Was lucky that my grandma was a pretty generous lady and as I recall, twice gave us $5K checks to pay down our mortgage since I was the only income provider at the time. She thought it was important that my wife be home with the kids, so she gifted us every so often to ease the burden. She was a very wonderful woman!
I also lucked into great in-laws who treated me better than my own folks. Every five years, I'd come home from work to see a new vehicle in front of the condo or in the garage. My wife was an only child and they insisted that she have new wheels every five years and until they both died, she got a new vehicle every five years.
Always remind the kids how generous their mothers folks were!

The Sandman

fintail

I tend to like odd and unusually/highly optioned cars, so a rental is likely not in my future even if I wanted to roll the dice (for most cars, it is probably not a problem, if you get a good deal).

stickguy

well, no clue what the reserve is on this, but I really, really like it. Not perfect, but a ton of money spent on it refurbishing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Toyota-Celica-GT-S-GTS-/332293743245?hash=item4d5e40228d:g:DqgAAOSwgv5ZSzbI&vxp=mtr

tifighter

I like that one. I'm guessing these convertibles weren't done at the factory by Toyota in the mid-80's. ASC maybe?

graphicguy

fintail said:

I tend to like odd and unusually/highly optioned cars, so a rental is likely not in my future even if I wanted to roll the dice (for most cars, it is probably not a problem, if you get a good deal).

Same way, Fin! The rentals tend to be base models of something, even lux brands. I like mine all loaded up, with all the performance goodies. I think that's why I did't keep the Q50 all that long. If I would have popped for the Red 400 version, it would probably still be in my garage.

Got into a bit of a row (that's probably too strong of a statement, more like a healthy debate) at one of the Acura sites. Some over their took exception to me preferring the TLX ASpec over the Q50 Sport. The Infiniti 2.0t just isn't very good. The 3.0t I had was better, but still "soft in the middle". Some of the "features" didn't quite work right, either. Nothing worth getting my BVDs in a bunch about. But, coming off my Cadillac debacle, noticeable.

The Q50 folks thought my statement about the G/Q with the 3.7L as the better car over the 3.0t did not sit with them very well. They really didn't like that I preferred the TLX Aspec over the Q50 3.0t.

andres3

graphicguy said:

fintail said:

I tend to like odd and unusually/highly optioned cars, so a rental is likely not in my future even if I wanted to roll the dice (for most cars, it is probably not a problem, if you get a good deal).

Same way, Fin! The rentals tend to be base models of something, even lux brands. I like mine all loaded up, with all the performance goodies. I think that's why I did't keep the Q50 all that long. If I would have popped for the Red 400 version, it would probably still be in my garage.

Got into a bit of a row (that's probably too strong of a statement, more like a healthy debate) at one of the Acura sites. Some over their took exception to me preferring the TLX ASpec over the Q50 Sport. The Infiniti 2.0t just isn't very good. The 3.0t I had was better, but still "soft in the middle". Some of the "features" didn't quite work right, either. Nothing worth getting my BVDs in a bunch about. But, coming off my Cadillac debacle, noticeable.

The Q50 folks thought my statement about the G/Q with the 3.7L as the better car over the 3.0t did not sit with them very well. They really didn't like that I preferred the TLX Aspec over the Q50 3.0t.

Being as the A-Spec just came out, and furthermore, the SH-AWD is rarer than a TTS (I went to two dealers and both had just one A-Spec each, and both were FWD), I'd venture to guess 95% of those upset with you for your personal preferences haven't even seen the new TLX A-Spec; let alone driven one. My main concern would be the ultimate power given the statistics on the car (and it's 3.5 instead of 3.7 naturally aspirated engine), but you seem to love it.

breld

My wife and I stopped by an Acura dealer last week, cause I wanted to take a look at the TLX A-spec after seeing GG's review and pics.

I think it looks great - they had a couple AWD A-specs. One was gray with the red interior that was really sharp.

When/if I have a need for such a car, I'd definitely put it on the short list (for now, my practical automatic car needs a 3rd row).

stickguy

Is this a decent deal?

https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Jeep/2004-Jeep-Grand+Cherokee-Cherry+Hill+NJ-edd104250a0e0a6b406901003b540468.htm?searchDepth=17:38

qbrozen

good grief! That thing is in HORRIBLE condition! I'm gonna have to say no.

Mr_Shiftright

Looks edgy. Maybe $4,500--$5000 if it checks out mechanically and no serious rust issues underneath. Miles are decent. CARFAX shows some maintenance but you'd never guess it looking at the vehicle.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

good grief! That thing is in HORRIBLE condition! I'm gonna have to say no.

It sure is. My 1999 Wrangler looks better and I haven't detailed it for at least one year.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

good grief! That thing is in HORRIBLE condition! I'm gonna have to say no.

LOL Seriously; what is the deal with that place?! I think they take more time photographing the car for the website than they do cleaning it. I noticed the same thing on the convertible stickguy posted a while back.

Yes, okay, so vehicles can get very dirty when used, but potential buyers shouldn't be reminded of that history when shopping! Laziness, there.

stickguy

Didn't look that bad but hard to see details on the iPad with old eyes! The subaru dealer does seem to shoot first, detail later. At least on the older stuff.

xwesx

Regarding Audi / VAG (in reference to @Marcothecarguy1986 's video yesterday), one thing I really appreciate about that company is how smooth the lines are on their cars. In today's world of blocky protuberances and general shock-factor hideousness, their cars have a calming appeal about them.

Not bland, mind you, just smooth and attractive.

fintail

Ex-rental Euros tend to be nearly zero option. I don't think I have seen a US market rental MB with lighting package. As part of the fun of the cars is the toys, having one with less toys is less fun.

The last time I rented from Hertz, they had a Q50 2.0 for a paid upgrade. I considered it for a brief moment, but upon seeing the car was literally zero option (and appeared to have been treated roughly), I declined. A local lot has a 16 C63, I suspect ex-Hertz as well. Sparsely equipped with a bit of cosmetic wear, I'd spend a little more for a high option car, and my OCD would also demand a car with the least cosmetic issues possible

graphicguy said:

Same way, Fin! The rentals tend to be base models of something, even lux brands. I like mine all loaded up, with all the performance goodies. I think that's why I did't keep the Q50 all that long. If I would have popped for the Red 400 version, it would probably still be in my garage.

Got into a bit of a row (that's probably too strong of a statement, more like a healthy debate) at one of the Acura sites. Some over their took exception to me preferring the TLX ASpec over the Q50 Sport. The Infiniti 2.0t just isn't very good. The 3.0t I had was better, but still "soft in the middle". Some of the "features" didn't quite work right, either. Nothing worth getting my BVDs in a bunch about. But, coming off my Cadillac debacle, noticeable.

The Q50 folks thought my statement about the G/Q with the 3.7L as the better car over the 3.0t did not sit with them very well. They really didn't like that I preferred the TLX Aspec over the Q50 3.0t.

breld

Look what I found sitting in the showroom.  

kyfdx

Well, at least it's not a picture from your garage (yet)

breld

xwesx said:

Regarding Audi / VAG (in reference to @Marcothecarguy1986 's video yesterday), one thing I really appreciate about that company is how smooth the lines are on their cars. In today's world of blocky protuberances and general shock-factor hideousness, their cars have a calming appeal about them.

Not bland, mind you, just smooth and attractive.

So...like that Type R above, right? Smooth and attractive?

qbrozen

breld said:

Look what I found sitting in the showroom.  

Looks like a Pep Boys threw up on a WRX.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Didn't look that bad but hard to see details on the iPad with old eyes! The subaru dealer does seem to shoot first, detail later. At least on the older stuff.

Well, to summarize: worn out driver's seat; filthy carpets and dash; possible rust starting in fender corners; both front and rear bumper painted by a kindergartener with an old crappy dirty brush ... need I go on?

breld

Okay, so I know the Type R is, at best, polarizing, but I think I'm gonna go for one.

Seeing it in person was interesting. In the flesh, it didn't strike me as too gaudy - more of a natural, purposeful look, particularly in a world of big-winged STIs on the road. Sitting there in the showroom, it sort of became more "normalized," if that makes sense.

So I went and sat in the Si coupe (the reason for my visit) and like it just fine. Obviously a very lateral move from the GTI, but that doesn't matter to me - I'm just having a jones to get back into a Honda product. The overall feel of the interior is at least a slight step down from the GTI, in particular the seat cloth feel. I actually like the dash layout. With the sunroof and sloping coupe profile, my head was brushing a little at the headliner. Exterior-wise, I like it from certain angles, but from others, the spoiler looks funny and tacked on.

Back to the showroom to take a closer look at their Type R (apparently it's a corporate vehicle for show, though they're trying to get the go ahead to sell it). To me, while it obviously has more scoops, skirts and a bigger spoiler than the Si, it all just works better. Like they just went for it without compromise. Sitting in it really sealed the deal in my head. The seats are wonderful - nicely shaped with thick bolsters in a nice suede-like material. Thicker steering wheel. A lot of upgraded trim pieces that add to the look and feel. While it's obviously more similar than not, the sum of those upgrades combine for an interior feel richer than the Si. Sort of like a base 3-series compared to an M-sport interior I suppose.

Obviously no test drives, but from all the reviews, it sounds like it's a pretty reasonable daily drive with little punishment.

So, if I'm going to delve back into Honda world, why not go all in? I'm realizing the Si is just too obvious a stop-gap for me - not that I have much problem in switching out quickly of course, but if it's already a known thing, may as well wait and enjoy the GTI in the meantime. Getting an Si in the meantime may actually spoil the process of getting a Type R eventually.

So, I'm on a couple waiting lists. May consider putting a deposit down at one dealership that commits to MSRP, if I find having money down helps my chances.

roadburner

The Honda dealer in our group has a red Type R; I've seen it driving around the past couple of days. I'm just not sure if I could go back to a high horsepower FWD car- even though it does sound as if it's considerably more capable than my MS3.

xwesx

breld said:

xwesx said:

Regarding Audi / VAG (in reference to @Marcothecarguy1986 's video yesterday), one thing I really appreciate about that company is how smooth the lines are on their cars. In today's world of blocky protuberances and general shock-factor hideousness, their cars have a calming appeal about them.

Not bland, mind you, just smooth and attractive.

So...like that Type R above, right? Smooth and attractive?

Hahah! You read my mind!!!!!!

tifighter

@breld The whole time you would have the Si, you'd want the R anyway. Proceeding directly to the R will actually save you money!

stickguy

ti is probably quite right there.

fintail

I already think I am too old for that Type R. I generally don't want much attention on the road anyway, and that thing isn't going to generate much good attention.

stickguy

I am probably too old for the current Si (as I am sure my wife will remind me). I know I am too old for that atrocity (IMHO)! But as always, buy what you like, and YMMV

fintail

I'd be afraid of being followed around by 16 year olds, wannabe racers, and eventually it would be stolen, especially if parked in some areas.

corvette

A couple of waiting lists... reminds me of the story my dad told me about buying one of the first CRXs in the 1980s. He was on a wait list and the dealer called him and said the car hauler had just pulled up. He had his choice of a red one or a white one or forfeit his place on he waiting list. He took the white one and I think later had A/C installed (don't think it was an option at first). 

roadburner

stickguy said:

I am probably too old for the current Si (as I am sure my wife will remind me). I know I am too old for that atrocity (IMHO)! But as always, buy what you like, and YMMV

How old are you? 85?

qbrozen

Interestingly, truecar shows $200 off sticker in my area and $1k over sticker in FL (something I learned only because it came up as my default location for some reason).

I think I prefer it in white, looking at some other pics. I could never live with that wing, though. I bet it would be easy to find some kid to swap trunklids with, though.

breld

Unwanted attention is definitely one of the downsides I've considered. But for the most part, I think it will be "fun" attention on the roads - I know I won't be drawn into any sort of racing. Theft is a concern, but really, it's parked in a garage at home and in a garage at work - so that minimizes that risk.

breld

tifighter said:

@breld The whole time you would have the Si, you'd want the R anyway. Proceeding directly to the R will actually save you money!

Certainly one of the primary considerations in this current decision. I already have a very nice stop-gap while I wait in the GTI (and that depreciation hit is already in the books).

ab348

kyfdx said:

Well, at least it's not a picture from your garage (yet)

Looks like something I would step on and crush if I found it on the floor of my garage.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

Interestingly, truecar shows $200 off sticker in my area and $1k over sticker in FL (something I learned only because it came up as my default location for some reason).

I think I prefer it in white, looking at some other pics. I could never live with that wing, though. I bet it would be easy to find some kid to swap trunklids with, though.

Subaru offers the STi with a "lip spoiler" as a factory option if you don't want that gigantic rear spoiler following you around all day.  

@qbrozen - you could probably make money selling your type R trunk with spoiler to a kid with a "regular" Civic.

cdnpinhead

Sounds much like the initial response to the Cadillac CTS. Somehow it's still around.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

I am probably too old for the current Si (as I am sure my wife will remind me). I know I am too old for that atrocity (IMHO)! But as always, buy what you like, and YMMV

How old are you? 85?

Too old for that wing I think. No man over 50 should have to endure that box kite on his trunk.