Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

ouch. maybe cars will keep piling up for a few more months, so I can score a deal at year end when they are desperate!

Michaell

rayainsw said:

Hmmmmm ...

"Woodcliff Lake, NJ – August 1, 2017… Sales of BMW brand vehicles decreased 14.8 percent in July .. "
compared to U.S. sales in July 2016.

And I wonder how much of that is due to the fact that:

1. BMW has dropped their MSD program;
2. BMW has slowly increased their lease MF from .00130 (3.12%) to .00151 (3.62%);
3. BMW has made it less desirable to lease a demo or loaner vehicle;
4. BMW has reduced the benefits of their corporate lease program

stickguy

got the latest loan statement on the RDX yesterday. Payoff now below $1k. Next payment on 8/14, then the final one in September, and it finally comes off the books. Will be nice to have one paid off again. Darned college expenses!

Michaell

stickguy said:

got the latest loan statement on the RDX yesterday. Payoff now below $1k. Next payment on 8/14, then the final one in September, and it finally comes off the books. Will be nice to have one paid off again. Darned college expenses!

Just about time to trade 'er in for a new whip for the spouse. How many miles does it have?

xwesx

stickguy said:

got the latest loan statement on the RDX yesterday. Payoff now below $1k. Next payment on 8/14, then the final one in September, and it finally comes off the books. Will be nice to have one paid off again. Darned college expenses!

I'm never that patient. Once I get anywhere near that close, I just pay it off.

stickguy

39,800. About to turn 5 YO. she likes it, so will just keep it. Only issue will be if I get a cheap car that won't be good for traveling, putting the RDX back into that duty, and we might tire of the antiquated tech features. So might be best to get a nice car, and keep Acura to be the "beater"

pensfan83

It wasn't just BMW that cooled off, and @Michaell probably nailed all the primary reasons. The lack of MSD is a big one for me personally since I did it on the Audi and it was well worth it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/08/01/july-us-auto-sales/528244001/

It was posted in the Conversation thread but GM is said to have a 100 day supply of cars when it should be closer to 60-70 days. Apparently they are going to have a longer shutdown as well to allow excess inventory to sell of and certain factories to be retooled

stickguy

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

got the latest loan statement on the RDX yesterday. Payoff now below $1k. Next payment on 8/14, then the final one in September, and it finally comes off the books. Will be nice to have one paid off again. Darned college expenses!

I'm never that patient. Once I get anywhere near that close, I just pay it off.

I always have in the past too. Difference here was every time I was going to, the daughter's college sent another bill!

nyccarguy

@stickguy

Next to "new car day," payoff day is a damn good one!

stickguy

It is. Will be nice to start having extra cash each month. I still like my plan of trading it in for a car for me (for whatever I can get for it), and leasing a new family truckster for the wife. But not getting traction there maybe once I start showing her options!

Maybe I should get another CUV, and just wean her into that as her car. At that point, I could do whatever I felt like!

qbrozen

stickguy said:

got the latest loan statement on the RDX yesterday. Payoff now below $1k. Next payment on 8/14, then the final one in September, and it finally comes off the books. Will be nice to have one paid off again. Darned college expenses!

Funny, I was just looking at the T&C statement this morn. 35 payments to go. haha. 

xwesx

stickguy said:

It is. Will be nice to start having extra cash each month. I still like my plan of trading it in for a car for me (for whatever I can get for it), and leasing a new family truckster for the wife. But not getting traction there maybe once I start showing her options!

Maybe I should get another CUV, and just wean her into that as her car. At that point, I could do whatever I felt like!

I would just keep it as the "second car." With those miles, you could keep it a LONG time and never have a lick of trouble with it. You could even flip the "primary" over many times and still save a fair bit of dollars compared to paying for two, or even replacing it with another used car (whose history is unknown to you).

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Funny, I was just looking at the T&C statement this morn. 35 payments to go. haha. 

I try not to look at mine. LOL! I pay mine bi-weekly, at some fixed amount that I decide (independently of the actual repay schedule). Usually, when I look, it makes me feel a little bit hopeless about it. However, I just looked at my schedule for the Q7.... 95 payments to go! Under 100 is a milestone! What is that, about 3.6 years?

Not bad, I guess, for a car I've owned for five months with a five-year note. /sigh

qbrozen

xwesx said:

I try not to look at mine. LOL! I pay mine bi-weekly, at some fixed amount that I decide (independently of the actual repay schedule). Usually, when I look, it makes me feel a little bit hopeless about it. However, I just looked at my schedule for the Q7.... 95 payments to go! Under 100 is a milestone! What is that, about 3.6 years?

Not bad, I guess, for a car I've owned for five months with a five-year note. /sigh

Interesting method. Pretty much what they tell you to do with a mortgage. I seem to be at the point I can't do something like that, though, since I have balanced all my bill due dates. I pay my mortgages on the 1st of the month and just about everything else on the 15th.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Interesting method. Pretty much what they tell you to do with a mortgage. I seem to be at the point I can't do something like that, though, since I have balanced all my bill due dates. I pay my mortgages on the 1st of the month and just about everything else on the 15th.

Yeah, one definitely needs to have some budgetary flexibility in order to start a schedule like that. But, once on it, it's very easy to maintain. Best time to do it is when something drops off (e.g., budget balanced with mortgage and two car payments.... one car paid off.... rebalance everything with that new flexibility. Not paying "more," but paying differently).

The goal, of course, is long-term interest savings. So, on a bi-weekly, there's a couple things that end up working for you: First, you cut a little bit off your monthly interest payment by reducing the second two weeks' interest by the principal amount applied in the first payment. On this particular loan, it works out to about $0.27 interest savings per payment (currently). Small, but adds up. The second thing is that you end up making the equivalent of one extra month's payment per year (e.g., 13 payment instead of 12) because you make 26 payments rather than 24. This works really well if you get paid bi-weekly, as it doesn't really "cost you more" at any given point in time, even if there are two months where you technically make three payments instead of two. For those on a 1st and 15th schedule, setting up to match on payments still gains the first savings line.

In the end, the debt is paid faster, which means it costs less out of pocket. For something like a mortgage, yes, it is going to cost SIGNIFICANTLY less over the life of the loan, even if it seemed like it cost the same amount each payment. I call it the poor man's method of saving on debt. LOL

A lot of the financial advisor stuff I read talks about paying more on debt. When you can't necessarily do that, what other ways can debt cost less? Well, this is one of them.

kyfdx

A lot of the financial advisor stuff I read talks about paying more on debt. When you can't necessarily do that, what other ways can debt cost less? Well, this is one of them.

It's really the same thing. You are paying more on your debt. One extra payment per year.

xwesx

kyfdx said:

A lot of the financial advisor stuff I read talks about paying more on debt. When you can't necessarily do that, what other ways can debt cost less? Well, this is one of them.

It's really the same thing. You are paying more on your debt. One extra payment per year.

Yes and no. Yes, if you do a true bi-weekly schedule, you do pay more per year. It just doesn't tend to "hurt" any more for those living paycheck-to-paycheck. In many cases, it actually helps them to stay more disciplined because they don't have that "free" paycheck that can get them in trouble.

If on a bi-weekly / bi-monthly schedule, you get that interest savings even if you never pay a penny more than required. On a five year loan, that typically adds up to at least one less payment required.... and you didn't pay a penny more than required (of the original amortization schedule) per month.

qbrozen

If I could get my wife to stop hitting us with a $5k Amex bill every month, I could probably rebalance quite easily. SIGH

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

If I could get my wife to stop hitting us with a $5k Amex bill every month, I could probably rebalance quite easily. SIGH

Oh, you too? I thought it was because AMEX didn't like me.

28firefighter

Can we not discuss the monthly AMEX bill? The statements are depressing enough without having to discuss them.

qbrozen

I see it is an epidemic!

stickguy

If my wife started doing that, the RDX issue would be resolved, since I would have to sell it to pay off all the crap she is buying.

stickguy

my next goal, once I am done paying off college (2 more payments, 1 this week, then in December), is to get all the other debt paid off. 1 car next month, the lease back in November, leaving just the house. Hopefully by the spring, I can sell this place and downsize (including the payment), then pump everything into paying off that mortgage as quickly as possible (well, I might keep 1 lease payment going). End game being get to zero owed to anyone, then I can retire! Hopefully I am not 80 at that point.

andres3

sda said:

Though not an immediate need I am starting to look for my next car as our daughter will need a car in about a year. She may get the Accord or her grand parent's Camry, not sure yet. I would like to give the Accord to my in laws so they have a newer car, but things can change. I haven't said anything to them yet. Mid size cars fit me well and I doubt I will be buying new. The Mazda6 has always gotten good reviews, especially for the driving experience. I've had several Mazdas in the past and liked them. Has anyone had experience with the Mazda6, good/bad?

My brother-in-law had what I considered a below-average '09 Mazda long-term ownership experience. He never spoke very fondly of the car, but he did just buy a brand new fully loaded Mazda 3; so it was "good enough."

28firefighter

We have the two cars and the house as "debt", but as I've lamented on some of the threads, the cost of childcare here is expensive. Sam's daycare runs $2100/month, skimmed right off the top.

Major damper on the CCBA bug....

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

We have the two cars and the house as "debt", but as I've lamented on some of the threads, the cost of childcare here is expensive. Sam's daycare runs $2100/month, skimmed right off the top. Major damper on the CCBA bug....

Yes, but the nice thing is that someday soon you won't have to pay that yet be used to giving up $2100/mo. It is pretty much how we upsized our house while keeping our old house. 

pensfan83

I'm grateful every single day both of our families live around here to help with child care. On the few occasions we can't rely on them my employer has an excellent daycare center that costs a pittance compared to regular centers.

andres3

andres3 said:

Marcothecarguy1986 said:

@andres3 congrads to your parrants on there new car!

Well, I think the ES 300H is a boring car. It is FWD and gets over 40 MPG in the City though. Also, I think Lexus has really worked on making very fine interiors with high quality leathers. Not sure about the analog clock though. I'm sure it is super quiet and super smooth and comfortable.

However, I'd say the 2017 Lexus is still a totally different car than the '03 ES 300 my Dad still owns. 14 years changes a lot. They have voice recognition that my Father has already complained doesn't like his voice. Navigation which is what they are trying to do the voice commands for in the first place.

Plus, the old ES300 is a guzzler that isn't very fast at all.

Still, I understand the desire for something different. Other than financially, I sort of regret the Kia. It is too different than the German cars. Honda controls and interfaces are closer to Audi's. Kia is the exact opposite.

For example, it is hard for me to get used to these things in the Kia:

1. Foot Pedal E-Brake
   
2. Manual Stick Control of DSG requires flip to left rather than flip to right.
   
3. Windshield wipers have opposite slow/intermittent to fast direction than Audi controls.
   
4. Gas tank fill-up is on the right side.
   

Someone once said driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car fast. I'm not so sure about that. I think part of the limitation is that it is rolling on Low-Rolling Resistance Michelin tires which squeal at hilariously low limits in the twisties. On the bright side, they grip and squeal at the same time.

There was a Civic Sport that I humbled in the Kia; mosly with my driving skills though; mostly maintaining pace. That Civic handles well though; as in parts they pulled away a bit.

Correction. It is the Korean car that has the tank fill-up on the left (driver's) side. The Audi's and VW's seem to always use the right side; my preferred side. Late onset Dyslexia?

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

We have the two cars and the house as "debt", but as I've lamented on some of the threads, the cost of childcare here is expensive. Sam's daycare runs $2100/month, skimmed right off the top. Major damper on the CCBA bug....

Yes, but the nice thing is that someday soon you won't have to pay that yet be used to giving up $2100/mo. It is pretty much how we upsized our house while keeping our old house. 

Yes. But right now it's brutal. 

tjc78

We've talked about it before ... daycare is painful.  Once the kids are of daycare and our HELOC is gone in a few years it's time for a small condo down the shore!  

Heck with modest rental income we would still be way ahead of the game.  

@qbrozen
Holy $&@/ I freak when the monthly CC hits 2k!

On the car buying front, can anyone confirm or deny the new Traverse is on the dealer's lots?  I see on the website they appear in stock.  Seems early.  I'd love to test drive one as it's basically a clone of the upcoming Enclave. 

tbirdmarco

@stickguy nice nice RDX is almost payed off now after that is done like said above time to start shopping for an nother car for you and the wife and daughter all at the same time!

fintail

I think it's a German thing - every MB I have driven (aside from the old dear with filler under the rear license plate) has it on the passenger side.

andres3 said:

Correction. It is the Korean car that has the tank fill-up on the left (driver's) side. The Audi's and VW's seem to always use the right side; my preferred side. Late onset Dyslexia?

tbirdmarco

@xwesx injoyed reading on the finanshial advice you gave above thanks for shairing with us all!

tbirdmarco

@tjc78 see on line sum are on the ground hear to. will call local cheverlet dealer hear and see if they have one in stock or an few. no sum dealer in ohio has an few saw sum yootoob stuff also sum other dealer forget whair! will let you no. want my mom to go and drive the GMC one since it is an bit smaller just what we nead hear!

Sandman6472

Stick, I get it, one of our happiest day was when we paid off Casa Sandman back in 1995. By that time, the daycare expenses were finally over and the extra cash flow helped raising our 3 youngsters. I was working about 56 hours/week, always on the overtime desired list as we had a goal in mind, starting when the first one came. Get on the odl list and max it out, then pay off the house asap. Living below our means really helped the bottom line as well as having my in-laws living nearby to help with the kids. Once they all were in elementary school, my wife was able to go back to her cpa career but only part time. We've always lived below our means and this has rubbed off on the kids.
Talked about leasing my next ride, especially if I do go the BMW route. Seems like more and more are leasing now...just not sure it would work for us. Driving that new C300 at work helped me realize that I really do not want to go back to an economy vehicle and driving the same 2014 Tucson I had just sealed the deal. Definitely "cheaper to keep" with an economy vehicle but going forward, just want more! And if we do things right, like working a bit longer than we wanted, could seal the deal!

The Sandman

stickguy

28firefighter said:

We have the two cars and the house as "debt", but as I've lamented on some of the threads, the cost of childcare here is expensive. Sam's daycare runs $2100/month, skimmed right off the top.

Major damper on the CCBA bug....

you are paying nearly as much for daycare as i am for college. Though I guess Sam doesn't have his own car yet on your dime?

andres3

If I get 3 parents that give me 1 kid each at $2,100/month I'm starting a new business.

fintail

My sister was the GM for a multiple branch daycare. Significant overhead, but huge revenues.

stickguy

heck, my kid gets paid $10-$15 and hour to sit around surfing the Net at the neighbors house while their kids sleep. I will be happy to do that. Unreported cash too!

qbrozen

This summer, we have been paying a babysitter a bit over $2k per month for just 3 full days and 2 half days a week. Minus her week off and our family vacation coming up, it is running us $5k for the summer. Ouch. I have tried to get other parents to join in and share the sitter but got no takers.

stickguy

so I could retire, and make enough to cover the income gap by doing some child care? Interesting career option for younger retirees!

roadburner

We are blessed in that our parents left us enough to fully fund my son's 529. As for debt, I have about a year left on the 2er loan and 13 months on the i3 lease. On the downsizing front we've discussed finding something that could eventually replace both the Jeep and the Mini. Problem is, we need a vehicle with true off road capability and we don't want something the size of the Queen Mary. I love Land Rovers, but aside from a Defender they aren't a viable long term proposition. A JK fills the bill, but I don't want to spend that much money- you are looking at north of $30k for even a decent used Sahara or Rubicon. Ditto for a Pro 4X Xterra. Oh well, something will come along in a year or two...

thebean

stickguy said:

so I could retire, and make enough to cover the income gap by doing some child care? Interesting career option for younger retirees!

I wouldn't do childcare for other people's kids if they paid me $100/hr. Life is too short.

Michaell

thebean said:

stickguy said:

so I could retire, and make enough to cover the income gap by doing some child care? Interesting career option for younger retirees!

I wouldn't do childcare for other people's kids if they paid me $100/hr. Life is too short.

I've known lots of folks who have run home-based child care centers. It's a grind.

And, the profits at the corporate centers aren't as good as you might think, either. All those corporate centers have large home office staffs for HR, finance, curriculum development, IT, etc. I know - my wife managed a center, and went back to the home office a lot for meetings - she was amazed and appalled at the number of headcount.

The pay for those who work in the centers isn't much above minimum wage, either. Here in CO they tried a program to "certify" child care teachers - had to take two classes, one of which was basically free. The idea was that by having fewer qualified employees, the wages would go up.

Didn't happen. Most people work at child care centers to get free or reduced rate care for their kids. Once the kids got old enough, the parents would quit, and be replaced by other young parents.

28firefighter

I understand why the cost is high and I'm thrilled that Sam is in a good childcare facility where he is thriving.

The cost is what it is to some extent. Rents for space are high as is demand. We have friends paying $2800 a month full time for facilities they aren't happy with, but were the only place they got a slot. 

I'm also lucky that I can start funding, in small amounts, his 529 fund even now. I'll likely redirect most of the money from childcare to that once he's out and the rest to savings. 

28firefighter

fintail said:

My sister was the GM for a multiple branch daycare. Significant overhead, but huge revenues.

Revenues are high, but so is overhead. At least here in Seattle. 

I spoke to the owners of our facility here. They're an older couple that retired from their first careers in finance. They recognized the lack of facilities here that weren't just collecting a check by doing the bare minimum and decided to try their hand at it. Both of them acknowledge they could charge more, but neither is really interested in the money all that much, so much of whatever they have is pumped back into the staff and keeping the facilities updated. 

fintail

And as was mentioned above, pay is often not high, at least not in larger operations. Probably a combination of somewhat transitory workers, expenses, and maybe thirsty owners. No doubt the owners can operate it like their own mint, but the rest, not so much. My sister wasn't paid commensurate to her duties and the amount of people she managed, so she eventually resigned. Definitely an industry where you want to be an owner, or maybe not be involved at all.

28firefighter said:

Revenues are high, but so is overhead. At least here in Seattle. 

I spoke to the owners of our facility here. They're an older couple that retired from their first careers in finance. They recognized the lack of facilities here that weren't just collecting a check by doing the bare minimum and decided to try their hand at it. Both of them acknowledge they could charge more, but neither is really interested in the money all that much, so much of whatever they have is pumped back into the staff and keeping the facilities updated. 

28firefighter

fintail said:

And as was mentioned above, pay is often not high, at least not in larger operations. Probably a combination of somewhat transitory workers, expenses, and maybe thirsty owners. No doubt the owners can operate it like their own mint, but the rest, not so much. My sister wasn't paid commensurate to her duties and the amount of people she managed, so she eventually resigned. Definitely an industry where you want to be an owner, or maybe not be involved at all.

Revenues are high, but so is overhead. At least here in Seattle. 

I spoke to the owners of our facility here. They're an older couple that retired from their first careers in finance. They recognized the lack of facilities here that weren't just collecting a check by doing the bare minimum and decided to try their hand at it. Both of them acknowledge they could charge more, but neither is really interested in the money all that much, so much of whatever they have is pumped back into the staff and keeping the facilities updated. 

For sure. In his infant room, the teachers have been with them for over a decade. So they're doing something right. 

That said, I couldn't own one, run one, work at one and as far as I'm concerned, the teachers are saints. 

Michaell

fintail said:

And as was mentioned above, pay is often not high, at least not in larger operations. Probably a combination of somewhat transitory workers, expenses, and maybe thirsty owners. No doubt the owners can operate it like their own mint, but the rest, not so much. My sister wasn't paid commensurate to her duties and the amount of people she managed, so she eventually resigned. Definitely an industry where you want to be an owner, or maybe not be involved at all.

28firefighter said:

Revenues are high, but so is overhead. At least here in Seattle. 

I spoke to the owners of our facility here. They're an older couple that retired from their first careers in finance. They recognized the lack of facilities here that weren't just collecting a check by doing the bare minimum and decided to try their hand at it. Both of them acknowledge they could charge more, but neither is really interested in the money all that much, so much of whatever they have is pumped back into the staff and keeping the facilities updated. 

The owners aren't making as much as you think - when you factor labor, materials (food, toys, etc), plus rent and utilities, they aren't clearing all that much.

My wife had an opportunity to buy a school from the owner - it was the only child care center in town. She passed, and decided to leave for a job as the director of a corporate-owned school. The private center closed down shortly thereafter.

fintail

I think for the most part, all teachers are saints. Dealing with jerky parents and often just as jerky kids, no thanks.

I bet for the lucky ones in Seattle who acquired their property 20+ years ago, the margins are a lot higher - big generation out there who effectively has a winning lottery ticket.

28firefighter said:

For sure. In his infant room, the teachers have been with them for over a decade. So they're doing something right. 

That said, I couldn't own one, run one, work at one and as far as I'm concerned, the teachers are saints.