Okay, so I am 32, single, and am thinking that a Sienna AWD might be cool. You could put 2 bikes inside, without removing the 2nd row of seats. Seat four and run skis down the middle of cargo area (and can change in and out of ski gear inside the car). Long roof rails and short height mean canoes and kayaks on the top should be easy. Only awd minivan out there. And you can sleep in it (just in case). I mean, I can't buy a new Vanagon syncro anymore...
Do you guys think I need an intervention? Will women be scared? Am I denial about my age? Can I become an honorary PTA member? :confuse:
Aren't the Dodge/Chrysler vans available with AWD?
I know people with Range Rovers that do just what you are saying especially the diesel ones in europe. They will drive out to some remote ski area the night before camp out in the back and leave the engine idling. Watch movies on the DVD screens or play video games. It would work better in a minivan of course but I don't think a minivan could get to most of the places these guys are skiing at.
I was a late bloomer - I didn't get my minivan until I was 36, a 1989 SWB Voyager. I remember reading about them in the 70's when I was canoeing every weekend and talking about how great they would be with my eye doc. The flat floor sounded more convenient than the '69 VW Bus I had access to for a year. My wife and I are on our second one and while I don't care much about AWD, extra ground clearance would be nice. Stow n Go killed off the AWD Dodge minivans.
Mine have hauled all sorts of sports gear from bikes, sailboards, canoes and kayaks, and camping gear. Usually there's too much junk inside to try to sleep in it though. Can't beat 'em for road trips either. link and link
I can't remember the last time I actually hauled a kid in ours. :P
Okay, so I am 32, single, and am thinking that a Sienna AWD might be cool. You could put 2 bikes inside, without removing the 2nd row of seats. Seat four and run skis down the middle of cargo area (and can change in and out of ski gear inside the car). Long roof rails and short height mean canoes and kayaks on the top should be easy.
It really depends how often you need the capabilities. I have done well with a Legacy wagon and a roof rack and a trailer hitch, and a Contour with a roof rack before that. Now that I am married with a lil one, it still seems to meet my needs very well.
Also, given that we are about the same age, this sure as heck better not be midlife...if my life is half over I am definitely dumping the Accord ASAP.
I don't think it's crazy, but you would have to deal with the "stigma" of being a young single guy with a minivan. I'm way older, & I'd probably drink poison before I'd buy a minivan, which is silly of course.
(Does anyone remember when owning a F/S van in the 70's was "cool"?--I almost bought a new Ford F150 van in 1979 to haul music equipment, not b/c it was cool, but just seemed like a great vehicle for being on the road, hauling "stuff", etc.)
If you like Toyotas, personally, I'd get a 4runner, or a used landcruiser, & a bike carrier of some sort. Women--hard to figure (duh). Some hate all SUVs. Some have an attitude against bmws & land rovers because they drive a little Saturn. Or love land rovers or bmws. Maybe they'd see you as Daddy Material with a Sienna, & you could show them how the back seats work..... :P
I have a Forester now with a rotating cast of rack accessories: cargo box, bike mount, kayak attachments and gunwale mounts for a canoe. The rack gets lots of attention. The Subie is just too small for 4 adults with ski gear, box or not. There is no rear seat room. When I bought it, I rarely had passengers, but since I'll ski anywhere, anytime, everyone now likes to tag along. The Outback has no more seat room. The Sienna could also eliminate my elaborate and perpetual roof rack dance, leaving the roof solely for boats only.
Anyway, one of my good friends told me that if there is one vehicle she hates, it is a minivan. Of course, she bought a cooper s with an automatic Land Cruisers are okay, but spendy and get 12mpg. Never been a 4Runner guy; I like the current Pathfinder better but the mileage isn't much better than the LC. I know that the Sienna does not get a lot better mileage, but you sure get a lot of space and utility in exchange. I have not excluded the Tribeca, maybe Pilot, maybe the Big Outback (Taurus X GASP :surprise: )though is it worse to say you drive a minivan or say you drive a Ford?
FWIW, the Mercury Villager is a good van for the money. Only problem is rust, so it depends on where you live. But it's the best value in vans that i know of.
The Sienna AWD locks you into run-flat tires, as far as I know. I wouldn't buy it... snow tires will be fine even for skiing.
BTW, is that the large solo tripper that Wenonah builds? The Voyager or whatever it's called, one size and a lot of volume up from the Advantage, but about as fast? Looks like a heck of a boat, and in fine shape. -Mathias
Yeah, its a Voyager, in the ultralight kevlar makeup. 17.5 ft long. 38 lbs They claim it is their fastest solo boat. My friends are strong paddlers, and are usually 2 up in Sea Clippers. So I need all the help I can get to keep up.
Those OT's you have are pretty big boats; what's the gunwale width on one of those?
Supposedly, people have put regular tires on the awd Sienna rims, so that's an option. Here in WA, many roads (usually the ones leading to where I want to ski) can become 'chains required' without awd, so having awd can be a pretty nice thing.
Lilengineerboy makes a good point about wagons and I have an Outback here that does much of the duty that the van does. I've had as many as 5 open canoes and a few kayaks hanging off the Quik 'n Easy racks on the old Voyager, but no snapshots (just slightly overloaded on short shuttles :shades: ).
One 15'8" OCA on my Tercel was enough to tear off the rain gutters (link).
stopped by the volvo dealer on sunday just to take a peak at the C30. I hadn't seen one in person yet. It is a cute car. The backseat definitely appears tight, but I took at look at the S40 and S60 to double-check, and I was surprised to see that those don't offer much more room back there. I appears that their lot guy is quite tall because all the drivers' seats were set far back, making the comparison possible. It looked like there was maybe 2 inches between the seat back and rear seat in the C30 vs maybe 4 inches in the S40 and 6 inches in the S60. All very tight.
Anyway, does anybody know what the keypad on the center stack does? I mean, other than a phone, I can't figure out what use 0-9 would have laid out like that. If it is to plug in radio stations and climate temps, I would find that annoying, personally. And what is this new thing with the key being so high up in the dash of new cars? Does this mean I am no longer allowed to have my house key attached to it? Just another annoying "feature." Definitely makes a good argument for the keyless system (i'm not even sure this is available on the volvo).
Anyway, the hatch area looked pretty useful. It seems a stroller should be able to fit back there on its side with the seats upright. Should make for a decent runabout.
My wife made the comment that if a good lease deal came about when her lease is up (sept '08) that we could lease a C30 and she would drive it until my lease is up (may '09) and then get her a wagon and I take the C30. Only problem with that proposition is that she would want an automatic. Yuck!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
stopped by the volvo dealer on sunday just to take a peak at the C30. I hadn't seen one in person yet. It is a cute car. The backseat definitely appears tight, but I took at look at the S40 and S60 to double-check, and I was surprised to see that those don't offer much more room back there. I appears that their lot guy is quite tall because all the drivers' seats were set far back, making the comparison possible. It looked like there was maybe 2 inches between the seat back and rear seat in the C30 vs maybe 4 inches in the S40 and 6 inches in the S60. All very tight.
Yup the rear room in the S40 is not really much better then the C30. I could adjust the driver's seat in the C30 to a comfortable driving position for myself at 5 foot 11 with a 30 inch inseam and still sit behind the seat comfortably.
I wouldn't want to be in either position for more then an hour and a half but it was doable.
Anyway, does anybody know what the keypad on the center stack does? I mean, other than a phone, I can't figure out what use 0-9 would have laid out like that. If it is to plug in radio stations and climate temps, I would find that annoying, personally.
If it is anything like the Land Rovers then the keypad does three things.
1. Dial pad for the phone 2. radio presets 3. directly inputing radio stations by hitting the # key first then the frequency.
And what is this new thing with the key being so high up in the dash of new cars? Does this mean I am no longer allowed to have my house key attached to it? Just another annoying "feature." Definitely makes a good argument for the keyless system (i'm not even sure this is available on the volvo).
You can get keyless start for the C30 but I assume it is the same as the LR2 or S80 in that you still have to put the key in a slot some where. It would make the key much smaller and not so bulky. Not sure if it is worth the 300 something bucks they charge for it.
My wife made the comment that if a good lease deal came about when her lease is up (sept '08) that we could lease a C30 and she would drive it until my lease is up (may '09) and then get her a wagon and I take the C30. Only problem with that proposition is that she would want an automatic. Yuck!
I am waiting for a decent lease deal to pop up or ideally an employee lease deal I could take advantage of. Nothing yet on either front though. I gotta call the sales manager at our Volvo dealer and talk to him sometime today to get his thoughts. He has been with Volvo for nearly 15 years so he knows how the operate.
Got back yesterday from our road trip to Utah. 1200 miles in 4 days. The VUE did really, really well. The MPG ranged from just under 20 to just under 24 (EPA says 16 and 22, so I'm pretty pleased). Loved the ability to downshift on the grades to keep from speeding. Quiet ride and comfortable seats - much better, in fact, than the '04 VUE. XM Radio was nice to have on the trip, though we did have a few spots where the signal dropped - mainly in the canyons and tunnels in Colorado.
While in Provo, did a little bit of car shopping with the step son - his '01 L200 has almost 160K on it. Looked at Saturn (some leftover ION's), Hyundai (Elantra) and Nissan (Sentra).
When did Hyundai start to make MPG a priority? We saw a leftover '07 Elantra stick a the EPA sticker said 28/36. A lot of car for under $16K MSRP.
Hyundai tuned the old Beta for fuel economy instead of horsepower on the current Elantra, plus their automatics are geared much taller than the manuals. The current Elantra also weighs less than the old one.
The outgoing one had like 3300# towing capacity or something ridiculous like that. I actually don't think its that far off, the Focus here is rated at 1000# and the Euro Focus (when they were similar enough to compare) was rated at like 3 times that.
Interesting when there are so many different requirements for a new vehicle. Have you driven a Sienna? If you like it, it's not exactly a crazy choice. I doubt your fellow skiers are not going to go with you because you drive a mini-van!
Pilot sounds like a good idea too--huge interior space. Or used MDX maybe??
Pilot sounds like a good idea too--huge interior space. Or used MDX maybe??
I give a vote for the Pilot! I love mine, closing in on 3 months and 6500 miles, absolutely the best car I've ever owned!! I think my CCBA days may be over for a while.
I give a vote for the Pilot! I love mine, closing in on 3 months and 6500 miles, absolutely the best car I've ever owned!! I think my CCBA days may be over for a while.
Is it too early to put in my reservation for Valentine's Day 2008? :P
Is it too early to put in my reservation for Valentine's Day 2008?
Cute, lol. I really do like the Pilot, I can't imagine wanting anything different. Nearly 3 months and I still can't find ONE single thing that annoys me, that has GOT to be a record!
You can get keyless start for the C30 but I assume it is the same as the LR2 or S80 in that you still have to put the key in a slot some where.
Sounds like that would defeat the purpose--you're supposed to be able to start and take off driving while leaving the key in your pocket with the keyless start option, right?
I found this link the other day. Apparently, these devices are common on police vehicles: http://www.secure-idle.com/ It allows you to remove the key and leave the car running if the transmission is in park. You have to insert the key again before you can shift out of park.
A lot of the BMWs and MINIs are that way too. You have to pay extra to get the true keyless start and if you don't then you have to stick the key in a docking station or slot somewhere on the dash.
OK, I understand what you're talking about now. My 3-series had the "eject box" for the keyfob, and the keyless start was an extra option. I think I'd like the true keyless start, though. Nissan seems to be including it on a lot of models.
I have a rental Sentra with the CVT while the Audi is in the body shop. I really like the CVT--in most driving, the RPMs stay low enough that the engine is eerily silent. But, the texture of the road reads through the steering wheel pretty bad--there was a constant vibration on rough roads, and it didn't feel like a tire balance problem.
My MIL Prius has that. You can have the thing in your pocket he whole time. The problem is she keeps it in her purse and the forgets to move it during car changes, etc.
Yup that is just one of the problems with the smart keys. Another one is severely reduced battery life from the key always looking for the car. If I leave one of our Range Rover keys within six inches of the ignition for more then three or four days the battery in the key and the battery in the car will be dead.
If I move it just a little farther away then that won't be a problem. Leave a smart key within the same room as a car for a few days and you have the same problem.
Loath though I am to encourage the buying of 2+ ton vehicles... I have to admit, the '04+ Sienna is one heck of a float trip vehicle.
I can say this 'cuz weekend before last, we went canoeing with the neighbors, using their minivan, which has a great, and I mean *great*, roof rack with an official 150lb load limit.
The rack reaches much farther forward than on my wife's '03, and the structural supports are the size of my arms -- OK, that's not saying much -- and they supported an 18' Sawyer Cruiser and a 17' Old Town Penosbscot at speeds up to 85 mph without a hiccup.
On top of that, another friend assures me he can get 26 mpg by keeping his speed to 70 mph. I don't really *like* the van, mostly because it is huge, but it drives very well, and if you need something that size, it probably is the pick of he litter.
I'd still do without the AWD and make sure I have a full-size spare aboard. But that's me.
As far as pulling up somewhere and spending the night in the vehicle; if you have one six-footer and one short person, it can be done creditably in a Vibe/Matrix.
Finally, the width at the gunwale for my Old Town boats, since lilengeneerboy asked, is 33 and 34 inches. The Sawyer I forget, probably 31-32.
I always get 78" crossbars and never have trouble hauling two tandems side by side. Another nice thing about the minivan is that even with the low ground clearance, the racks are usually high enough that most passengers don't clunk their heads when they get out of the vehicle, unlike a sedan or wagon. If you and your paddling friends are all over 6' plus, then a taller SUV (or narrower crossbars) would solve that problem.
Its funny, we have the opposite issue. Because she is "vertically challenged," it is very hard for my wife to lift her mountain bike up to the Subaru's roof level. That's how we wound up with the hitch rack.
A couple of hours ago we tossed a Wenonah Rogue on top of a friend's camper shell on the back of his Tacoma. Took three of us to get it up there. Not an ideal shuttle rig. :P
These last few posts are not doing much to dissuade me from the Sienna idea, that's for sure. I found a used 04 LE AWD, 40K, Toy certified with powertrain warranty to late 2010, cosmetically very good to excellent inside and out...dealer is asking $21K. That's about $2-3K over KBB retail, but any Toyota awd/4wd (land cruiser, tacoma, etc.) seems immune to sanity anyway. Thinking about giving it a look. Best case scenario new locally for same LE awd so far is around $28-29K. New ones have a stronger engine. Hard to swallow the idea of buying something used that cost more than my Forester did new, but I guess that means they hold their value, right? Sheesh, even Pilots drop value more than that...
I can't bring myself to put a muddy mountain bike inside my car. Even a road bike gets grungy after a ride. That said, when my family would go from SB to Mammoth every summer when I was growing up, the bikes would be inside the van. Once we got there, we strapped on this cheesy Hollywood rack and used that to go from trail to trail. I would probably be more inclined to rent the minivan 1-2x a year for those types of trips then have to drive something like that on a daily basis. Of course, I have an Accord right now and that is about the boringest car ever to me too, so I might just be picky.
Locating an LE AWD is a find, too. Most of the AWD Siennas they sell near me are the fully loaded XLE and Limited models, with stickers as high as $40K.
My friends have an '05 FWD with that same 3.3L, and it is more than enough power even loaded with seven people and some gear. You have to take it easy on the highway, though, or else you won't manage more than about 24 mpg. I would imagine the 3.3 would be plenty of power even with the added weight of the AWD. Now that it has the 3.5, it has become the fastest minivan of the flock, but I'm not sure what the point of that is...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Dirt goes in the minivan. I buy stuff to use it, not coddle it. Since I drive cars forever, I know they'll be scratched and dented by their 10th year anyway, so I don't care if they are dinged and dirty by their second year. If you're chronic, you probably care more about resale value than me.
Yeah, but we never get the fun concepts. I could have gone chronic on a new VW Microbus if they had just made the durn thing, even with VWs reliability rep. Blogging Bob may like that rig for a Straightline post.
I also like the Microbus concept, but in typical VW fashion they had the estimated price up to $40k. Way too much for a peoples car.
VW is now going to build a mini-van on Chryslers mini-van platform. It should be interesting to see what they add that Chrysler forgot with the new redesign.
I am far from Chronic, I shouldn't be allowed in the forum :P We have the newest fleet right now we have ever had in our lives with the '05 Legacy and the '07 Accord. The Accord replaced a '93 Accord, and the Legacy replaced a 170-thousand something mile '96 Contour. So far, all of the cars, including the 15 year old Accord, looked presentable when sold. I can't stand beat up cars, I think that would drive me to be a CCB.
dealer is asking $21K. That's about $2-3K over KBB retail
I'm not a Sienna expert, but to pay $2-3K over KBB retail??? I have found my local Toyota dlrs. are very high, always, on used Toyotas. In contrast their "internet depts" sell new ones for $500 over invoice, minus whatever rebates.
A brand new one, from what you're saying, is $7-$8K more than a 3-4 y.o. one with 40K miles. Doesn't seem (to me) like the savings are worth it to buy used.
They might make a lot more profit on their used Toyotas than the new ones....
Typically yes and that is even more true of big mass market volume dealers like Toyota stores.
A lot of Toyota new car operations are run on the idea that all they want is volume. They want to sell more cars, to get more allocation to earn more new cars to sell more cars so that they have more service customers and more trade ins.
They run the new car side at a pretty steep loss and make part of it up with used car sales. The rest of the loss and all of the profit is made up on the service/parts side. A 60, 70, 80, 90 possibly even 100 percent profit margin is made on the service/parts side.
Yeah, Toyota dealers are usually on the high side to start, then only go higher on the certified stuff. However, Toy dealers don't seem to play $x over invoice on awd Siennas since they are hard to find. It seems to be more $x off msrp. Plus, 07's (and their incentives) are gone around here.
There are 2 local dealers that still have a number of 07 Pilots, and Honda still has a $3k incentive on them. It would be worth looking into, although they don't float my boat on paper as much as the Sienna. The interior is not as useful, mileage is questionable (input, Jolie?), roof access is taller, and the base LX awd doesn't come with darn roof rails! They should, however, be more willing to do invoice less incentive or better type of deal. A Pilot should hold its value pretty well, right?
possibly even 100 percent profit margin is made on the service/parts side
Wow, a 100% profit margin, that's pretty sweet for the service department. Of course, the only way to achieve that is by charging for for something in which you have zero cost. (In accounting-speak, gross profit = gross sales).
So I guess you are saying that Toyota service departments are "possibly" charging for parts they don't install or services they don't perform? :surprise:
Maybe there is another explanation that I am missing.
Comments
Do you guys think I need an intervention? Will women be scared? Am I denial about my age? Can I become an honorary PTA member? :confuse:
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
I know people with Range Rovers that do just what you are saying especially the diesel ones in europe. They will drive out to some remote ski area the night before camp out in the back and leave the engine idling. Watch movies on the DVD screens or play video games. It would work better in a minivan of course but I don't think a minivan could get to most of the places these guys are skiing at.
Mine have hauled all sorts of sports gear from bikes, sailboards, canoes and kayaks, and camping gear. Usually there's too much junk inside to try to sleep in it though. Can't beat 'em for road trips either. link and link
I can't remember the last time I actually hauled a kid in ours. :P
It really depends how often you need the capabilities. I have done well with a Legacy wagon and a roof rack and a trailer hitch, and a Contour with a roof rack before that. Now that I am married with a lil one, it still seems to meet my needs very well.
Also, given that we are about the same age, this sure as heck better not be midlife...if my life is half over I am definitely dumping the Accord ASAP.
(Does anyone remember when owning a F/S van in the 70's was "cool"?--I almost bought a new Ford F150 van in 1979 to haul music equipment, not b/c it was cool, but just seemed like a great vehicle for being on the road, hauling "stuff", etc.)
If you like Toyotas, personally, I'd get a 4runner, or a used landcruiser, & a bike carrier of some sort. Women--hard to figure (duh). Some hate all SUVs. Some have an attitude against bmws & land rovers because they drive a little Saturn. Or love land rovers or bmws. Maybe they'd see you as Daddy Material with a Sienna, & you could show them how the back seats work..... :P
Steve – I like the picture of the canoe on your van. Looks a little more proportionate than this, yes?
Anyway, one of my good friends told me that if there is one vehicle she hates, it is a minivan. Of course, she bought a cooper s with an automatic Land Cruisers are okay, but spendy and get 12mpg. Never been a 4Runner guy; I like the current Pathfinder better but the mileage isn't much better than the LC. I know that the Sienna does not get a lot better mileage, but you sure get a lot of space and utility in exchange. I have not excluded the Tribeca, maybe Pilot, maybe the Big Outback (Taurus X GASP :surprise: )though is it worse to say you drive a minivan or say you drive a Ford?
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
How 'bout this: http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/vibe.html
FWIW, the Mercury Villager is a good van for the money. Only problem is rust, so it depends on where you live. But it's the best value in vans that i know of.
The Sienna AWD locks you into run-flat tires, as far as I know. I wouldn't buy it... snow tires will be fine even for skiing.
BTW, is that the large solo tripper that Wenonah builds? The Voyager or whatever it's called, one size and a lot of volume up from the Advantage, but about as fast? Looks like a heck of a boat, and in fine shape.
-Mathias
Those OT's you have are pretty big boats; what's the gunwale width on one of those?
Supposedly, people have put regular tires on the awd Sienna rims, so that's an option. Here in WA, many roads (usually the ones leading to where I want to ski) can become 'chains required' without awd, so having awd can be a pretty nice thing.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
:P
I hope my mom doesn't read this...
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
One 15'8" OCA on my Tercel was enough to tear off the rain gutters (link).
Anyway, does anybody know what the keypad on the center stack does? I mean, other than a phone, I can't figure out what use 0-9 would have laid out like that. If it is to plug in radio stations and climate temps, I would find that annoying, personally. And what is this new thing with the key being so high up in the dash of new cars? Does this mean I am no longer allowed to have my house key attached to it? Just another annoying "feature." Definitely makes a good argument for the keyless system (i'm not even sure this is available on the volvo).
Anyway, the hatch area looked pretty useful. It seems a stroller should be able to fit back there on its side with the seats upright. Should make for a decent runabout.
My wife made the comment that if a good lease deal came about when her lease is up (sept '08) that we could lease a C30 and she would drive it until my lease is up (may '09) and then get her a wagon and I take the C30. Only problem with that proposition is that she would want an automatic. Yuck!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yup the rear room in the S40 is not really much better then the C30. I could adjust the driver's seat in the C30 to a comfortable driving position for myself at 5 foot 11 with a 30 inch inseam and still sit behind the seat comfortably.
I wouldn't want to be in either position for more then an hour and a half but it was doable.
Anyway, does anybody know what the keypad on the center stack does? I mean, other than a phone, I can't figure out what use 0-9 would have laid out like that. If it is to plug in radio stations and climate temps, I would find that annoying, personally.
If it is anything like the Land Rovers then the keypad does three things.
1. Dial pad for the phone
2. radio presets
3. directly inputing radio stations by hitting the # key first then the frequency.
And what is this new thing with the key being so high up in the dash of new cars? Does this mean I am no longer allowed to have my house key attached to it? Just another annoying "feature." Definitely makes a good argument for the keyless system (i'm not even sure this is available on the volvo).
You can get keyless start for the C30 but I assume it is the same as the LR2 or S80 in that you still have to put the key in a slot some where. It would make the key much smaller and not so bulky. Not sure if it is worth the 300 something bucks they charge for it.
My wife made the comment that if a good lease deal came about when her lease is up (sept '08) that we could lease a C30 and she would drive it until my lease is up (may '09) and then get her a wagon and I take the C30. Only problem with that proposition is that she would want an automatic. Yuck!
I am waiting for a decent lease deal to pop up or ideally an employee lease deal I could take advantage of. Nothing yet on either front though. I gotta call the sales manager at our Volvo dealer and talk to him sometime today to get his thoughts. He has been with Volvo for nearly 15 years so he knows how the operate.
While in Provo, did a little bit of car shopping with the step son - his '01 L200 has almost 160K on it. Looked at Saturn (some leftover ION's), Hyundai (Elantra) and Nissan (Sentra).
When did Hyundai start to make MPG a priority? We saw a leftover '07 Elantra stick a the EPA sticker said 28/36. A lot of car for under $16K MSRP.
EDIT:
Never mind it only drops down to 33 highway and 24 city.
Pilot sounds like a good idea too--huge interior space. Or used MDX maybe??
I give a vote for the Pilot! I love mine, closing in on 3 months and 6500 miles, absolutely the best car I've ever owned!! I think my CCBA days may be over for a while.
Is it too early to put in my reservation for Valentine's Day 2008? :P
Cute, lol. I really do like the Pilot, I can't imagine wanting anything different. Nearly 3 months and I still can't find ONE single thing that annoys me, that has GOT to be a record!
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Oh, ouch!
jolie, i'm glad that you have been able to find a vehicle that does what you need it to. My sister has a Pilot, and she loves hers!
I'm going to keep THIS Pilot until after 100k just to see you EAT YOUR HAT!!!! LOL :P
Sounds like that would defeat the purpose--you're supposed to be able to start and take off driving while leaving the key in your pocket with the keyless start option, right?
I found this link the other day. Apparently, these devices are common on police vehicles:
http://www.secure-idle.com/
It allows you to remove the key and leave the car running if the transmission is in park. You have to insert the key again before you can shift out of park.
A lot of the BMWs and MINIs are that way too. You have to pay extra to get the true keyless start and if you don't then you have to stick the key in a docking station or slot somewhere on the dash.
I have a rental Sentra with the CVT while the Audi is in the body shop. I really like the CVT--in most driving, the RPMs stay low enough that the engine is eerily silent. But, the texture of the road reads through the steering wheel pretty bad--there was a constant vibration on rough roads, and it didn't feel like a tire balance problem.
If I move it just a little farther away then that won't be a problem. Leave a smart key within the same room as a car for a few days and you have the same problem.
I can say this 'cuz weekend before last, we went canoeing with the neighbors, using their minivan, which has a great, and I mean *great*, roof rack with an official 150lb load limit.
The rack reaches much farther forward than on my wife's '03, and the structural supports are the size of my arms -- OK, that's not saying much -- and they supported an 18' Sawyer Cruiser and a 17' Old Town Penosbscot at speeds up to 85 mph without a hiccup.
On top of that, another friend assures me he can get 26 mpg by keeping his speed to 70 mph. I don't really *like* the van, mostly because it is huge, but it drives very well, and if you need something that size, it probably is the pick of he litter.
I'd still do without the AWD and make sure I have a full-size spare aboard. But that's me.
As far as pulling up somewhere and spending the night in the vehicle; if you have one six-footer and one short person, it can be done creditably in a Vibe/Matrix.
Finally, the width at the gunwale for my Old Town boats, since lilengeneerboy asked, is 33 and 34 inches. The Sawyer I forget, probably 31-32.
-Mathias
A couple of hours ago we tossed a Wenonah Rogue on top of a friend's camper shell on the back of his Tacoma. Took three of us to get it up there. Not an ideal shuttle rig. :P
Preach it, brother. :P
These last few posts are not doing much to dissuade me from the Sienna idea, that's for sure. I found a used 04 LE AWD, 40K, Toy certified with powertrain warranty to late 2010, cosmetically very good to excellent inside and out...dealer is asking $21K. That's about $2-3K over KBB retail, but any Toyota awd/4wd (land cruiser, tacoma, etc.) seems immune to sanity anyway. Thinking about giving it a look. Best case scenario new locally for same LE awd so far is around $28-29K. New ones have a stronger engine. Hard to swallow the idea of buying something used that cost more than my Forester did new, but I guess that means they hold their value, right? Sheesh, even Pilots drop value more than that...
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
That said, when my family would go from SB to Mammoth every summer when I was growing up, the bikes would be inside the van. Once we got there, we strapped on this cheesy Hollywood rack and used that to go from trail to trail.
I would probably be more inclined to rent the minivan 1-2x a year for those types of trips then have to drive something like that on a daily basis. Of course, I have an Accord right now and that is about the boringest car ever to me too, so I might just be picky.
My friends have an '05 FWD with that same 3.3L, and it is more than enough power even loaded with seven people and some gear. You have to take it easy on the highway, though, or else you won't manage more than about 24 mpg. I would imagine the 3.3 would be plenty of power even with the added weight of the AWD. Now that it has the 3.5, it has become the fastest minivan of the flock, but I'm not sure what the point of that is...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Ok, I'll quit now.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
VW is now going to build a mini-van on Chryslers mini-van platform. It should be interesting to see what they add that Chrysler forgot with the new redesign.
So far, all of the cars, including the 15 year old Accord, looked presentable when sold. I can't stand beat up cars, I think that would drive me to be a CCB.
I'm not a Sienna expert, but to pay $2-3K over KBB retail??? I have found my local Toyota dlrs. are very high, always, on used Toyotas. In contrast their "internet depts" sell new ones for $500 over invoice, minus whatever rebates.
A brand new one, from what you're saying, is $7-$8K more than a 3-4 y.o. one with 40K miles. Doesn't seem (to me) like the savings are worth it to buy used.
They might make a lot more profit on their used Toyotas than the new ones....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A lot of Toyota new car operations are run on the idea that all they want is volume. They want to sell more cars, to get more allocation to earn more new cars to sell more cars so that they have more service customers and more trade ins.
They run the new car side at a pretty steep loss and make part of it up with used car sales. The rest of the loss and all of the profit is made up on the service/parts side. A 60, 70, 80, 90 possibly even 100 percent profit margin is made on the service/parts side.
There are 2 local dealers that still have a number of 07 Pilots, and Honda still has a $3k incentive on them. It would be worth looking into, although they don't float my boat on paper as much as the Sienna. The interior is not as useful, mileage is questionable (input, Jolie?), roof access is taller, and the base LX awd doesn't come with darn roof rails! They should, however, be more willing to do invoice less incentive or better type of deal. A Pilot should hold its value pretty well, right?
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Wow, a 100% profit margin, that's pretty sweet for the service department. Of course, the only way to achieve that is by charging for for something in which you have zero cost. (In accounting-speak, gross profit = gross sales).
So I guess you are saying that Toyota service departments are "possibly" charging for parts they don't install or services they don't perform? :surprise:
Maybe there is another explanation that I am missing.