Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

pensfan83

I had the unfortunate experience of being both a driver and passenger in a manual 4 cylinder Wrangler with side curtains for a 5 hour drive from Pittsburgh to Buffalo once. When we arrived I had a headache, sore throat, sore back, and ringing ears. Even driving it around the city was underwhelming. The inline 6 Wranglers, though still relatively crude, were much more livable.

stickguy

If I got one as a spare or toy, most likely would be the hardtop with removable t top panels.

au1994

stickguy said:

If I got one as a spare or toy, most likely would be the hardtop with removable t top panels.

I still miss mine on occasion. Nothing like riding around with the top down and doors off on a perfect spring day!

Mr_Shiftright

That hardtop isn't easy to store either.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

That hardtop isn't easy to store either.

Few of them are.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, true enough.

stickguy

looking at some of the cars newly out, or due out as 2019s, I really think our next move will be upgrading the family truckster/wife's car. The difference between the RDX and these new ones (tech wise) is amazing. The RDX, if we can afford it, is amazing. But even the CRV is a huge upgrade, and the new Santa Fe coming out should be the same.

stickguy

I want to scope out the new Infiniti QX50 too, though I know that is going to be way too expensive. Along with a new GLC. Though depending on the model, a lightly used CPO could be in play. As could a lease (intending to buy at the end).

tbirdmarco

 Of those wranglers always did especially the four door ones I’ve never ridden in one just sent in one so can’t say what imagine their people on the road maybe I’ll have my mom look at the grand Cherokee in the summer you know it’s an older design it’s growing on me after it was out for like six months or so back in 2011 that or the terrene something like that to do some test drives maybe next weekend I’ll get her to start doing that 

Michaell

stickguy said:

I want to scope out the new Infiniti QX50 too, though I know that is going to be way too expensive. Along with a new GLC. Though depending on the model, a lightly used CPO could be in play. As could a lease (intending to buy at the end).

The GLC doesn't lease all that well.

Be curious what the numbers are for the QX50, when they come out.

Sandman6472

Have had the flu since Monday night, feel just awful!! Just got out of bed this afternoon and kept down crackers, scrambled eggs & mashed potatoes with it staying put. The shower felt wonderful after four days but wife stayed near in case I passed out. Worst flu I've had in years and no work since Monday. Luckily, they were cool with me being out but driving was just not possible.
Oldest put deposit down on house in Orlando area, brand new under $250K, moving in August. 3/2 with large den or 4th bedroom if needed. Middle girl plans to transfer once her lease is up about 5 months later and plan is to rent a room to help with mortgage. Had a major discussion with wife as I want to go near and buy new again while banking over $100K but things didn't go well as she wants to stay put. Claims I have too much stuff, true...time to finally purge a lot of stuff going forward. Told her, eventually, I'm going with or without her so things ended on a bad note. Decided to let things be for a bit.
Need to get out of South Florida!! Also, need to downsize because plan is to stop working beginning of 2020.

The Sandman

stickguy

sounds like a not so subtle hint to finally clean out collected junk. So, take it and embrace the purge. it feels good actually to get it off your head. And when you do, say I did my part, time to go!

we are opposite. I would be happy to get rid of nearly everything and get down to what I could take myself in a Uhaul. The wife is the one with "attachment issues". We will meet someplace in the middle. She is willing to go, once we figure out exactly where. What to get, that will be a negotiation process. But will get done.

Finding a new job out of the immediate area would help. That would force the issue.

breld

I've been obsessing over the eventual upgrade on the family SUV front, with the choices narrowed down to the three I drove last weekend - XC90, Q7 and Discovery.

Right now, my heart wants the Discovery. I like the look and character of it, and the extent of "customizability" with the options. And a real differentiating factor is the ability to get it with the diesel, which we very much enjoyed in the X5 (as @jpp5862 is with his new Touareg, and @xwesx with the Q7).

The Volvo is beautiful, both on the exterior and interior. It's also the least expensive - I can load it up with all the options and it tops off around where the others begin. But as nice as the turbo/super charged 4 cylinder is, it's certainly a different feel than the other two choices, not to mention my current V8 in the Durango.

The Audi is the best driving SUV. Sweet engine, very thoughtful interior. It's also the least exciting of the three from an aesthetics perspective. The exterior is handsome, but not very exciting, and I'd say the same of the interior, although it is laid out very well with high quality materials.

imidazol97

sandman_6472 said:

Have had the flu since Monday night, feel just awful!! Just got out of bed this afternoon and kept down crackers, scrambled eggs & mashed potatoes with it staying put. The shower felt wonderful after four days but wife stayed near in case I passed out. Worst flu I've had in years and no work since Monday.

Sorry to hear about your bout with the flu. The varieties this year are dangerous. The media keeps citing the statistics of how many succumbed to it here in the cold north. They're still encouraging folks to get vaccinations this late into the season in TV ads and stories. You description reminded me of how I hate getting sick that way--it prompts me always to get my flu shots.

qbrozen

breld said:

I've been obsessing over the eventual upgrade on the family SUV front, with the choices narrowed down to the three I drove last weekend - XC90, Q7 and Discovery. Right now, my heart wants the Discovery. I like the look and character of it, and the extent of "customizability" with the options. And a real differentiating factor is the ability to get it with the diesel, which we very much enjoyed in the X5 (as @jpp5862 is with his new Touareg, and @xwesx with the Q7). The Volvo is beautiful, both on the exterior and interior. It's also the least expensive - I can load it up with all the options and it tops off around where the others begin. But as nice as the turbo/super charged 4 cylinder is, it's certainly a different feel than the other two choices, not to mention my current V8 in the Durango. The Audi is the best driving SUV. Sweet engine, very thoughtful interior. It's also the least exciting of the three from an aesthetics perspective. The exterior is handsome, but not very exciting, and I'd say the same of the interior, although it is laid out very well with high quality materials.

Disco starts around $46k, the Q7 at $48k, and the Volvo around $44k. A loaded XC90 can top $70k. Definitely not where the Disco and Q7 start.

stickguy

I would not touch a loaded XC90 new. And I assume the LR will depreciate heavily too. Not that I can afford any of them. Nor do I need or want something that large.

I did drive an XC90. It was certainly stylish. But, same as the MDX, just felt like piloting a barge around. At that point, might as well just get a 1/2 ton PU!

The real action seems to be in the compact/mid size arena. Upcoming RDX, QX50, XC60 in particular all look tasty, with the requisite now 2.0T engine.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

I've been obsessing over the eventual upgrade on the family SUV front, with the choices narrowed down to the three I drove last weekend - XC90, Q7 and Discovery.

Right now, my heart wants the Discovery. I like the look and character of it, and the extent of "customizability" with the options. And a real differentiating factor is the ability to get it with the diesel, which we very much enjoyed in the X5 (as @jpp5862 is with his new Touareg, and @xwesx with the Q7).

The Volvo is beautiful, both on the exterior and interior. It's also the least expensive - I can load it up with all the options and it tops off around where the others begin. But as nice as the turbo/super charged 4 cylinder is, it's certainly a different feel than the other two choices, not to mention my current V8 in the Durango.

The Audi is the best driving SUV. Sweet engine, very thoughtful interior. It's also the least exciting of the three from an aesthetics perspective. The exterior is handsome, but not very exciting, and I'd say the same of the interior, although it is laid out very well with high quality materials.

Disco starts around $46k, the Q7 at $48k, and the Volvo around $44k. A loaded XC90 can top $70k. Definitely not where the Disco and Q7 start.

Disco starts at $52k, but fair enough (may be looking at the Disco Sport?). I should have been clearer - there are some "minimum" features that I'd want when I'm thinking of the pricing. The packaging is quite different between the models - for instance, the Volvo naturally comes with more safety/tech features standard, whereas you have to add packages or trim levels to the others. Basically, there's less to add to the Volvo to get to where I'd want to be, while the pricing of the Land Rover and Audi balloon quickly.

I'm really curious as to people's thoughts on a modern Land Rover, regarding reliability and other issues.

stickguy

I thought the disco sport (obviously smaller by far than what you want) drove well. Of course, that was a diesel RHD model I had in Ireland. And odd, with no moonroof and manual seats. But roomy inside.

The engine was great. Cruised nicely on the highway, and plenty of low speed grunt. Just too big, by far, for that country. would not have been an issue in the USA of course, where it seems compact!

My impression is that overall quality and reliability has improved in recent years. But I am not writing warranty coverage on one. Though the new models seem to be really complicated with gadgets.

qbrozen

breld said:

breld said:

I've been obsessing over the eventual upgrade on the family SUV front, with the choices narrowed down to the three I drove last weekend - XC90, Q7 and Discovery. Right now, my heart wants the Discovery. I like the look and character of it, and the extent of "customizability" with the options. And a real differentiating factor is the ability to get it with the diesel, which we very much enjoyed in the X5 (as @jpp5862 is with his new Touareg, and @xwesx with the Q7). The Volvo is beautiful, both on the exterior and interior. It's also the least expensive - I can load it up with all the options and it tops off around where the others begin. But as nice as the turbo/super charged 4 cylinder is, it's certainly a different feel than the other two choices, not to mention my current V8 in the Durango. The Audi is the best driving SUV. Sweet engine, very thoughtful interior. It's also the least exciting of the three from an aesthetics perspective. The exterior is handsome, but not very exciting, and I'd say the same of the interior, although it is laid out very well with high quality materials.

Disco starts around $46k, the Q7 at $48k, and the Volvo around $44k. A loaded XC90 can top $70k. Definitely not where the Disco and Q7 start.

Disco starts at $52k, but fair enough (may be looking at the Disco Sport?). I should have been clearer - there are some "minimum" features that I'd want when I'm thinking of the pricing. The packaging is quite different between the models - for instance, the Volvo naturally comes with more safety/tech features standard, whereas you have to add packages or trim levels to the others. Basically, there's less to add to the Volvo to get to where I'd want to be, while the pricing of the Land Rover and Audi balloon quickly. I'm really curious as to people's thoughts on a modern Land Rover, regarding reliability and other issues.

Odd. Truecar says $46k.

Ah, just checked. Their "starting price" is after discount. 

stickguy

this one actually looks really nice in pictures. And I even prefer RWD. Cargurus says it is a great deal. Certainly cheaper than a new one.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2012-bmw-5_series-528i-used-17369873.html

venture

breld said:

qbrozen said:

breld said:

I've been obsessing over the eventual upgrade on the family SUV front, with the choices narrowed down to the three I drove last weekend - XC90, Q7 and Discovery.

Right now, my heart wants the Discovery. I like the look and character of it, and the extent of "customizability" with the options. And a real differentiating factor is the ability to get it with the diesel, which we very much enjoyed in the X5 (as @jpp5862 is with his new Touareg, and @xwesx with the Q7).

The Volvo is beautiful, both on the exterior and interior. It's also the least expensive - I can load it up with all the options and it tops off around where the others begin. But as nice as the turbo/super charged 4 cylinder is, it's certainly a different feel than the other two choices, not to mention my current V8 in the Durango.

The Audi is the best driving SUV. Sweet engine, very thoughtful interior. It's also the least exciting of the three from an aesthetics perspective. The exterior is handsome, but not very exciting, and I'd say the same of the interior, although it is laid out very well with high quality materials.

Disco starts around $46k, the Q7 at $48k, and the Volvo around $44k. A loaded XC90 can top $70k. Definitely not where the Disco and Q7 start.

Disco starts at $52k, but fair enough (may be looking at the Disco Sport?). I should have been clearer - there are some "minimum" features that I'd want when I'm thinking of the pricing. The packaging is quite different between the models - for instance, the Volvo naturally comes with more safety/tech features standard, whereas you have to add packages or trim levels to the others. Basically, there's less to add to the Volvo to get to where I'd want to be, while the pricing of the Land Rover and Audi balloon quickly.

I'm really curious as to people's thoughts on a modern Land Rover, regarding reliability and other issues.

My son has a Discovery. I can't speak for reliability since he has only had it less than a year. I can say that he has always had pretty nice cars (BMW, Acura, GTI). This one he doesn't seem excited about at all. I suspect it won't be around long. He said he likes his wife's Grand Cherokee better.

It does have a bunch of gadgets.

Mr_Shiftright

@venture : JD Power puts Land Rover below the industry average for 2017, but not drastically below. Industry average is 156 problems per 100 cars and LR is 178. Worst is Fiat, battling with Jeep for the basement, with 298,-- best (of course) is Lexus with 110.

Even Mini beat Rover, so that's frightening.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

qbrozen said:

breld said:

I've been obsessing over the eventual upgrade on the family SUV front, with the choices narrowed down to the three I drove last weekend - XC90, Q7 and Discovery.

Right now, my heart wants the Discovery. I like the look and character of it, and the extent of "customizability" with the options. And a real differentiating factor is the ability to get it with the diesel, which we very much enjoyed in the X5 (as @jpp5862 is with his new Touareg, and @xwesx with the Q7).

The Volvo is beautiful, both on the exterior and interior. It's also the least expensive - I can load it up with all the options and it tops off around where the others begin. But as nice as the turbo/super charged 4 cylinder is, it's certainly a different feel than the other two choices, not to mention my current V8 in the Durango.

The Audi is the best driving SUV. Sweet engine, very thoughtful interior. It's also the least exciting of the three from an aesthetics perspective. The exterior is handsome, but not very exciting, and I'd say the same of the interior, although it is laid out very well with high quality materials.

Disco starts around $46k, the Q7 at $48k, and the Volvo around $44k. A loaded XC90 can top $70k. Definitely not where the Disco and Q7 start.

Disco starts at $52k, but fair enough (may be looking at the Disco Sport?). I should have been clearer - there are some "minimum" features that I'd want when I'm thinking of the pricing. The packaging is quite different between the models - for instance, the Volvo naturally comes with more safety/tech features standard, whereas you have to add packages or trim levels to the others. Basically, there's less to add to the Volvo to get to where I'd want to be, while the pricing of the Land Rover and Audi balloon quickly.

I'm really curious as to people's thoughts on a modern Land Rover, regarding reliability and other issues.

Odd. Truecar says $46k.

Ah, just checked. Their "starting price" is after discount. 

Aah - gotcha. There are some pretty steep discounts on leftover 2017's, but I'd probably wait for similar discounts on the 2018, just to get into the second model year.

A local dealer advertises up to $6-7k off new XC90's, so that's a bit hard to pass up. The Audi seems to have the slimmest discounts of all.

Of course, on the Audi and Volvo, the used market comes into play.

Quick question - what are people's thoughts on the adaptive air suspension options on these cars? It's a steep $4k option (combined with 4WS), $1,800 on the Volvo, and "included" in the 3rd row package on the Discovery.

ab348

breld said:

I'm really curious as to people's thoughts on a modern Land Rover, regarding reliability and other issues.

Well, Edmunds currently has a Discovery on long-term test. It is already experiencing some worrisome niggles.

https://www.edmunds.com/land-rover/discovery/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-land-rover-discovery-monthly-update-for-january-2018.html

qbrozen

stickguy said:

this one actually looks really nice in pictures. And I even prefer RWD. Cargurus says it is a great deal. Certainly cheaper than a new one. http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2012-bmw-5_series-528i-used-17369873.html

About $3k-3500 over auction. So still a bit more than I'd like to go on it, but not awful if super clean.

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

breld said:

I'm really curious as to people's thoughts on a modern Land Rover, regarding reliability and other issues.

Well, Edmunds currently has a Discovery on long-term test. It is already experiencing some worrisome niggles.

https://www.edmunds.com/land-rover/discovery/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-land-rover-discovery-monthly-update-for-january-2018.html

$1200 for windshield without labor---yikes!

venture

Mr_Shiftright said:

@venture : JD Power puts Land Rover below the industry average for 2017, but not drastically below. Industry average is 156 problems per 100 cars and LR is 178. Worst is Fiat, battling with Jeep for the basement, with 298,-- best (of course) is Lexus with 110.

Even Mini beat Rover, so that's frightening.

Yeah. The first thing I asked when he got it was did he get an extended warranty.

As far as I know he hasn't had any problems with it yet, but it's still fairly new. It may be that it won't be around long enough to find out.

Mr_Shiftright

Well let's wish him luck on it.

laurasdada

If I decide to buy a new set of tires with a new car attached, rather than attaching new tires to my current ride this year, I'll probably put the Jag E-Pace on my test drive list. There are times having the hatch utility would be nice, and I remain so disappointed with the XE after my brief two day use of a '17.

I still don't think I'm a S/CUV type of guy, but then again my main experience has been with an '02 Lexus RX... And, loaner LRs from the dealer, none of which did much for me.

So, current list of new tire candidates include:
Jag XE and E-Pace
Audi A/S5
Alfa Romeo Giulia TI (hey, I drive British, how much worse can Italian be!?!)
Porsche Macan?
Used MB S Coupe (yeah, that meets my criteria for smaller and more economical than my XF)
Acura NSX or BMW i8 (based upon my inevitable PowerBall win)

Jag does offer the best warranty/maintenance pkg. of the bunch. And, just something about Jags...

breld

Hmm - I'd be lying if I said the ratings and that Long-Term Edmunds test on the Discovery don't give me pause.

Going with a 2018 model probably helps a little bit with some of the glitches, but who knows how much better it'd be.

tifighter

Disco is the biggest gamble for sure. Pricey, thirsty and a depreciation meteor. If you were going to use it’s superior off road abilities than that may have some weight, but otherwise, Volvo or Audi would seem to be a better fit.

I’ve never looked at the new Q7, but I hear good things.

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

Hmm - I'd be lying if I said the ratings and that Long-Term Edmunds test on the Discovery don't give me pause.

Going with a 2018 model probably helps a little bit with some of the glitches, but who knows how much better it'd be.

Interesting that Doug DeMuro reviewed one on YouTube and had the same screen failure while doing the video. It was a Velar I think.

roadburner

stickguy said:

this one actually looks really nice in pictures. And I even prefer RWD. Cargurus says it is a great deal. Certainly cheaper than a new one.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2012-bmw-5_series-528i-used-17369873.html

BORING; no M Sport, not very quick, and video game steering- other than that a great car...

Michaell

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

this one actually looks really nice in pictures. And I even prefer RWD. Cargurus says it is a great deal. Certainly cheaper than a new one.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2012-bmw-5_series-528i-used-17369873.html

BORING; no M Sport, not very quick, and video game steering- other than that a great car...

Quick is relative - compared to my 150 HP Jetta, this will be a rocket by comparison.

breld

So how much weight do you put in the JD Power ratings? I don’t look at them very often, but the posts above piqued my interest.

So, not unexpectedly, Land Rover is toward the bottom, although ahead of Volvo, and just a couple places behind Audi. My personal experience with Audi has been positive though.

BMW is the only luxury brand (other than Genesis) above average.

VW and Mini also above average, ahead of Honda, Toyota and Lexus, with Honda and Lexus below average?

What gives?

breld

Of course my post reeks of justification for getting a Land Rover. While I don’t want to ignore the historically poor reputation for reliability of the brand, I’d also hate to exclude it for that history if current models are much improved and on par with the other brands I’ve owned.

breld

And by the way, a response of “you won’t own it long enough for it to matter” is just low hanging fruit. You all are better than that.

stickguy

JDP seems pretty useless. Since it is just an initial impression, and I doubt very scientific. I actually would pay a lot more attention to CR instead, but that won't help much on a new model.

If you are looking at new or nearly new, will be fully under warranty anyway, so if problems do crop up, will just be an annoyance and not an expense.

I also believe that all new cars are vastly better than in years past, so the bar is basically set much higher. look at the numbers, and you are talking what, the difference between 1.25 and 1.75 problems for high and low rated models?

Just pay attention to known problem areas if you can. These days, that usually means the electronics/telematics.

Long winded way of saying, if you want a LR, buy one. It will likely be flawless for you, and if it has any needs, dealer will take care of them. Since you are not looking at 10+ years with it, long term durability is not a factor (other than how it impacts depreciation).

breld

Thanks @stickguy!

I definitely agree pretty much all cars are pretty darn reliable these days, unlike 10-20 years ago.

I don’t think I mentioned I had an extended text drive of a current gen used Audi Q7. It’s nice to see how an example with 20k miles fares, and it didn’t disappoint. The Q7 is just so satisfying to drive - it’s hard to ignore it as a solid choice. The Discovery is just more intriguing to me for one reason or another, particularly with the diesel option.

What I need to do is let it all sit awhile to let the newness of the Land Rover as an option settle in a bit.

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

So how much weight do you put in the JD Power ratings? I don’t look at them very often, but the posts above piqued my interest.

So, not unexpectedly, Land Rover is toward the bottom, although ahead of Volvo, and just a couple places behind Audi. My personal experience with Audi has been positive though.

BMW is the only luxury brand (other than Genesis) above average.

VW and Mini also above average, ahead of Honda, Toyota and Lexus, with Honda and Lexus below average?

What gives?

The problem with JD Power is that it's hard to know how significant the differential is between two numbers. If one car is 100 and the other 200, is it really twice as bad? If these were airlines instead of cars, does the #200 mean that those planes leave 10 minutes late, or that they crash a lot?

Sandman6472

Just sit tight for the next month or so. Don't do anything...I mean ANYTHING!!! Then, if the bug is still there, move forward...slowly and see what happens. I mean with a mortgage, car payments, everyday expenses and things for all the kids, have no clue how there's still $ in the bank the end of each month, honestly!
There's going to come a point where you've tried most of what y'all like out there. So, make a decision and tweak the fleet only when it makes sense. Lateral moves are only a temp fix and why spend the funds that way. There will come a point where I think that looking back, both of you will see how nuts all this buying/selling was. Just try to enjoy what y'all have for the moment and not always looking ahead. Enjoy what y'all have now...and the rest will take care of itself!
On a personal note, take into account that I've been in bed since last Monday night with an awful flu and finally able to sit up at a desk for more than a few minutes now. Still feeling awful but, can see daylight approaching. Might even return to work tomorrow!!

The Sick Sandman

kyfdx

Long story... went to visit my elderly uncle yesterday, (90 next month). For about 10 years, he was swapping cars like @breld. But, not cool stuff. Swapped a nearly new Highlander for a Highlander Hybrid. Swapped his wife’s Tucson for a Santa Fe (and, she hadn’t been able to drive for three years). Mostly out of loneliness and depression, I think. I tried to get him to stop, but he wasn’t breaking the bank, or getting fleeced, so there was nothing I could do.

About two years ago, he stopped. Even sold his wife’s car, last year. The only car he has now is a 2015 RAV4 with 10K miles. All good. So, I’m pulling in his driveway yesterday, and there are two cars in the garage, one with temporary tags. Geez Louise! I am really ticked off. Here we go again!

But, at least this was interesting.. pictures to follow.

kyfdx

kyfdx

fintail

Wow, did he import that from WA? Those things seemed to fall apart in flyover land. Looks amazing, people will pay good money for 80s Toyota PUs.

stickguy

cool. I like those, but that is not the configuration I would pick. And not sure I ever saw a PU before that had the entire cargo bed carpeted.

fintail

What year or type of S-coupe? I've also thought about something like that should I not buy out or re-up the lease, but their depreciation curve still resembles a rock thrown off a cliff until they fall below 10K or so, so I don't know how long I'd want to keep it, as they can age dangerously.

laurasdada said:

So, current list of new tire candidates include:
Jag XE and E-Pace
Audi A/S5
Alfa Romeo Giulia TI (hey, I drive British, how much worse can Italian be!?!)
Porsche Macan?
Used MB S Coupe (yeah, that meets my criteria for smaller and more economical than my XF)
Acura NSX or BMW i8 (based upon my inevitable PowerBall win)

Jag does offer the best warranty/maintenance pkg. of the bunch. And, just something about Jags...

kyfdx

fintail said:

Wow, did he import that from WA? Those things seemed to fall apart in flyover land. Looks amazing, people will pay good money for 80s Toyota PUs.

It's an '88.

Bought it at a local Toyota dealer in Lexington, KY.
69,500 miles.
They told him it was a California vehicle, but who knows..
Definitely has a lot of new plastic under the hood. Someone has done some restoration on it, I think. (look at the air intake).

He needs it like a hole in the head. Probably shouldn't even be driving.

Anyone want to guess what he paid? (Toyota dealer... and, he is 90 yrs old)

stickguy

$7k?

kyfdx

stickguy said:

$7k?

wow, Carnac.. you nailed it