Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

GTI seems like overkill for Sandy to me. As long as he was happy with how fast the golf is, the differences with the GTI could be a drawback. 18” wheels, stiffer ride, and more money and fewer goodies. Plus lower MPG on premium gas

Just MHO of course, but could make for an interesting back to back test drive.

28firefighter

Have to agree with @stickguy. I think the stiffer ride may rule out a GTI for Sandy. 

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Have to agree with @stickguy. I think the stiffer ride may rule out a GTI for Sandy. 

But, if he gets a nice GTI with a stick, he could look to dump it in about six months.... hmmmm

stickguy

You had your shot and failed the Breld.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

You had your shot and failed the Breld.

I know...

thebean

@sandman_6472, when we drove the Encore last year, the start-stop was very annoying to the wife and to me. You can't turn it off, according to the salesman. Immediate deal breaker for the wife.

graphicguy

Re the Stinger. I think it probably would have been better if they would have slotted it in the Hyundai Genesis brand. I understand it's a Kia and they probably want to make the Kia brand the performance arm of Hyundai.

But, if someone would ask...."would you rather own a midrange BMW or the most expensive Kia they make, regardless of performance, the answer would probably be overwhelmingly be the BMW.

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

Mr_Shiftright

nyccarguy said:

@sandman_6472

"Will the CVT tranny actually be livable for every day commuting? Will it have enough low end torque like the Golf does? Will it be comfortable and as fun to drive as the Golf always will? Lastly, will it fit into the garage at 175"'s in the first place. And most importantly, will it put that smile upon my face every time I get ready to drive it like the Golf does(did)!"

Yes
No
No
Not Sure
DEFINITELY NOT

Will it have that "bank vault, German door thunk?"  
No

Ask yourself the same questions about a GTI
Yes (DSG)
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes

@nyccarguy -- hey, wait a minute. How come the GTI gets a bank vault door and the Golf doesn't?

fintail

In a rare bout of logic and lucidity, Jalopnik mocked over-hyped one trick pony DeNysschen's take:

https://jalopnik.com/cadillac-ceo-no-one-will-buy-our-sedans-because-teens-1823707548

IIRC he had excuses at Infiniti as well.

graphicguy said:

Re the Stinger. I think it probably would have been better if they would have slotted it in the Hyundai Genesis brand. I understand it's a Kia and they probably want to make the Kia brand the performance arm of Hyundai.

But, if someone would ask...."would you rather own a midrange BMW or the most expensive Kia they make, regardless of performance, the answer would probably be overwhelmingly be the BMW.

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

ab348

graphicguy said:

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

The market (which is not millenials) wants SUVs, not sedans. Cadillac has one right now, by the end of the month the XT4, a smaller SUV, gets shown at the NY Auto Show, so they will have two.

thebean

graphicguy said:

Re the Stinger. I think it probably would have been better if they would have slotted it in the Hyundai Genesis brand. I understand it's a Kia and they probably want to make the Kia brand the performance arm of Hyundai.

But, if someone would ask...."would you rather own a midrange BMW or the most expensive Kia they make, regardless of performance, the answer would probably be overwhelmingly be the BMW.

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

It's more advantageous for him to say the needle moved rather than say he and his people misread the market. Never their fault (speaking of all corporate/political leaders).

laurasdada

I believe the upcoming G70 will be the Genesis "Stinger."

My first three cars (oh, so long ago ) were "hot hatches:" VW Scirocco, Mitsu Mirage Turbo and Acura Integra.

When the time comes, I may throw the Jag E-Pace in the mix. Based upon the XE, with from what I've early read, similar handling/performance and pricing; an arguably nicer interior and the functionality of a hatch, perhaps a better idea than the XE. I'll give the XE a second chance, as my brief experience was a service loaner. Which so disappointed me (mostly road/wind noise and creaks/groans and stiff ride. Mundane interior was OK, just would not get in black, don't much care about a smallish back seat).

Gee, the more I read about the Alfa Giulia, the more I want to try it. Took a chance with British, will Italian be a longer shot? Probably. Wonder if they're giving Giulia's away?

Drove the XF for a bit in the blizzard last night. Roads were in OK shape, but going around any significant corner or turn and could definitely feel the 3/32 all season tread giving up immediately! Fun, though!

XF remains scarred, having some back/forth with Amica insurance. I don't see the grille as much as the side, so the side dent/scar is making me ever so sad.

6422130

I'm trying to understand which rebates I qualify for on a new GMC Acadia. Was wondering where on Edmunds I would ask (or is that here)?

stickguy

That is likely going to require the dealer to tell you.

imidazol97

I'd start here with Edmund's list.

https://www.edmunds.com/gmc/car-incentives.html

Then check some of the other car sites for their incentive AND the GMC site.
But your dealer will be the ultimate source.

iluvmysephia1

laurasdada - what's your assessment of your Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo? That's a dinky little thing yet they've built it with four doors.

Mr_Shiftright

thebean said:

graphicguy said:

Re the Stinger. I think it probably would have been better if they would have slotted it in the Hyundai Genesis brand. I understand it's a Kia and they probably want to make the Kia brand the performance arm of Hyundai.

But, if someone would ask...."would you rather own a midrange BMW or the most expensive Kia they make, regardless of performance, the answer would probably be overwhelmingly be the BMW.

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

It's more advantageous for him to say the needle moved rather than say he and his people misread the market. Never their fault (speaking of all corporate/political leaders).

Cadillac wouldn't be the only one to miss the market these days. Hyundai fumbled the Genesis launch and Lexus may be way way too late in the game with their new LC500 "sports" coupe.

laurasdada

iluvmysephia1 said:

laurasdada - what's your assessment of your Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo? That's a dinky little thing yet they've built it with four doors.

It was an '84 Mirage Turbo, Arrest Me Red. Three door hot hatch. Mucho turbo lag, which was a fun kick in the pants at 3000rpm. Basically, the Mirage econocar with the turbo and some handling bits, blackout trim and hatch spoiler. Remember it as fun, and being a hatch, practical. Even as a performance model, it got me to the ski slopes without issue. I loved it!

laurasdada

Mr_Shiftright said:

thebean said:

graphicguy said:

Re the Stinger. I think it probably would have been better if they would have slotted it in the Hyundai Genesis brand. I understand it's a Kia and they probably want to make the Kia brand the performance arm of Hyundai.

But, if someone would ask...."would you rather own a midrange BMW or the most expensive Kia they make, regardless of performance, the answer would probably be overwhelmingly be the BMW.

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

It's more advantageous for him to say the needle moved rather than say he and his people misread the market. Never their fault (speaking of all corporate/political leaders).

Cadillac wouldn't be the only one to miss the market these days. Hyundai fumbled the Genesis launch and Lexus may be way way too late in the game with their new LC500 "sports" coupe.

Isn't Lexus noting that the LC is a GT, that does handle very well (in spite of its porkage). Reviews I've read have been positive, noting it's a GT, with surprisingly good handling. Used red one in CT for "only" $80k...

Mr_Shiftright

The LC is a lot of money for a car that isn't a Porsche. Does anyone want a $100K luxury GT coupe anymore? I thought the equivalent Mercedes coupes were rotting on the showroom floor.

fintail

I think the S-Class coupe still sells in small numbers (maybe respectable numbers for its price - it is more like 130-150K and that's not AMG), but it is kind of a different animal. AMG GT sells, as kind of a Porsche from Affalterbach.

Mr_Shiftright said:

The LC is a lot of money for a car that isn't a Porsche. Does anyone want a $100K luxury GT coupe anymore? I thought the equivalent Mercedes coupes were rotting on the showroom floor.

corvette

laurasdada said:

XF remains scarred, having some back/forth with Amica insurance. I don't see the grille as much as the side, so the side dent/scar is making me ever so sad.

Dang... Amica is supposed to be one of the better insurers. What's their beef?

stickguy

a little local lot has one of the Buick Unicorns. Seems overpriced though.

http://www.usedcarsmagnolia.com/2012-Buick-Regal/Used-Car/Magnolia-NJ/10393572/Details.aspx

qbrozen

stickguy said:

a little local lot has one of the Buick Unicorns. Seems overpriced though. http://www.usedcarsmagnolia.com/2012-Buick-Regal/Used-Car/Magnolia-NJ/10393572/Details.aspx

Yes, quite high. $11k should be plenty to take such an undesirable car off their hands.

laurasdada

corvette said:

XF remains scarred, having some back/forth with Amica insurance. I don't see the grille as much as the side, so the side dent/scar is making me ever so sad.

Dang... Amica is supposed to be one of the better insurers. What's their beef?

No beef. Adjuster only reviewed one of the two boo boos first time around. He had to come back and adjust estimate Good as of today.  

tjc78

ab348 said:

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars. Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

The market (which is not millenials) wants SUVs, not sedans. Cadillac has one right now, by the end of the month the XT4, a smaller SUV, gets shown at the NY Auto Show, so they will have two.

They already have two don’t they?  Escalade and the Acadia clone (XT something or other too lazy to look it up). 

What is the 4 going to be based on?  Must be the Equinox / Terrian.   Guess Caddy needs something to compete with the Lincoln MKC

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

ab348 said:

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars. Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

The market (which is not millenials) wants SUVs, not sedans. Cadillac has one right now, by the end of the month the XT4, a smaller SUV, gets shown at the NY Auto Show, so they will have two.

They already have two don’t they?  Escalade and the Acadia clone (XT something or other too lazy to look it up). 

What is the 4 going to be based on?  Must be the Equinox / Terrian.   Guess Caddy needs something to compete with the Lincoln MKC

Just giving the market what it wants. The XT5 has been a great success, it seems, averaging more than 5k sales per month in the US since launch and no signs of slowing down yet.

ronsteve

While the proliferation of SUVs is certainly an example of giving the market what it wants, I think there's been a lot of stuff intended to TELL the market what it wants, like the elimination of a lot of niche cars (so few wagon options) and manual transmissions.

I wonder how many more people would actually get vehicles with a manual if only they could still get it in something besides a base model?

ab348

tjc78 said:

They already have two don’t they?  Escalade and the Acadia clone (XT something or other too lazy to look it up). 

What is the 4 going to be based on?  Must be the Equinox / Terrian.   Guess Caddy needs something to compete with the Lincoln MKC

I don't consider the Escalade a SUV. I don't know how I'd classify it along with the Suburban and the Expedition - maybe a truck, maybe a bus, I dunno.

@ronsteve - aside from econoboxes and sporty cars like the Mustang, mainstream market manual transmission vehicles are pretty much sales-proof. I remember a dealer here had a previous-gen Caddy CTS with a manual on the lot - a pretty thing in Diamond White paint, tan interior, nice wheels & equipment - that sat there for almost the entire model year.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

thebean said:

graphicguy said:

Re the Stinger. I think it probably would have been better if they would have slotted it in the Hyundai Genesis brand. I understand it's a Kia and they probably want to make the Kia brand the performance arm of Hyundai.

But, if someone would ask...."would you rather own a midrange BMW or the most expensive Kia they make, regardless of performance, the answer would probably be overwhelmingly be the BMW.

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

It's more advantageous for him to say the needle moved rather than say he and his people misread the market. Never their fault (speaking of all corporate/political leaders).

Cadillac wouldn't be the only one to miss the market these days. Hyundai fumbled the Genesis launch and Lexus may be way way too late in the game with their new LC500 "sports" coupe.

True....particularly regarding Genesis. I thought that becoming its separate entity would buoy the brand. But, they announced it, and then just let it sit as it always was.....in or near the Hyundai showroom.

I don't get the Lexus strategy, even today. They aren't the clear lux leader they once were. And, their performance entities, that were once interesting, really don't cause a blip on my car radar these days.

Hell, even the vaunted "luxury SUV" RX350 is falling behind.

kyfdx

Yeah.. a Genesis is just a Hyundai, until you see a stand-alone Genesis dealership, with no Hyundai dealer in sight. (like Acura, Infiniti, Lexus)

roadburner

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

thebean said:

graphicguy said:

Re the Stinger. I think it probably would have been better if they would have slotted it in the Hyundai Genesis brand. I understand it's a Kia and they probably want to make the Kia brand the performance arm of Hyundai.

But, if someone would ask...."would you rather own a midrange BMW or the most expensive Kia they make, regardless of performance, the answer would probably be overwhelmingly be the BMW.

I just saw an interview with the Cadillac boss. He was stating that as soon as Cadillac came out with good performing sedans, the needle of what they wanted had been moved. Apparently, the Millenials want high tech lux cars....not lux performance cars.

Strange observance coming from the guy who was with Audi during their continuing rise up the lux performance sedan ladder while Caddy can't sell their sedans.

It's more advantageous for him to say the needle moved rather than say he and his people misread the market. Never their fault (speaking of all corporate/political leaders).

Cadillac wouldn't be the only one to miss the market these days. Hyundai fumbled the Genesis launch and Lexus may be way way too late in the game with their new LC500 "sports" coupe.

True....particularly regarding Genesis. I thought that becoming its separate entity would buoy the brand. But, they announced it, and then just let it sit as it always was.....in or near the Hyundai showroom.

I don't get the Lexus strategy, even today. They aren't the clear lux leader they once were. And, their performance entities, that were once interesting, really don't cause a blip on my car radar these days.

Hell, even the vaunted "luxury SUV" RX350 is falling behind.

I don't think any automobile manufacturer has a laser-sharp focus on what they want their brand to represent. For example, BMW lost the plot with the F10 and F30- the first BMWs that required specific options in order to drive like a BMW. It seems like every brand rushes to fill what is the current popular niche- which today is the CUV/SUV. The lemmings will all race elsewhere when a new segment takes off.

roadburner

To clarify, some manufacturers have a certain model or range that is properly managed- see: Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, as well as the AMG, BMW M, and SRT divisions- but that's about it.
Porsche probably does the best job of managing its image and building vehicles which conform to it.

tjc78

ab348 said:

They already have two don’t they?  Escalade and the Acadia clone (XT something or other too lazy to look it up). 

What is the 4 going to be based on?  Must be the Equinox / Terrian.   Guess Caddy needs something to compete with the Lincoln MKC

I don't consider the Escalade a SUV. I don't know how I'd classify it along with the Suburban and the Expedition - maybe a truck, maybe a bus, I dunno. @ronsteve - aside from econoboxes and sporty cars like the Mustang, mainstream market manual transmission vehicles are pretty much sales-proof. I remember a dealer here had a previous-gen Caddy CTS with a manual on the lot - a pretty thing in Diamond White paint, tan interior, nice wheels & equipment - that sat there for almost the entire model year.

LOL, an Escalade is more SUV than all the lifted station wagons they sell as SUVs are.
 

qbrozen

ronsteve said:

While the proliferation of SUVs is certainly an example of giving the market what it wants, I think there's been a lot of stuff intended to TELL the market what it wants, like the elimination of a lot of niche cars (so few wagon options) and manual transmissions. I wonder how many more people would actually get vehicles with a manual if only they could still get it in something besides a base model?

Anytime a manufacturer listens to the enthusiasts and adds a manual option, the take rate is so incredibly low as to make it cost inefficient. And I'm one of the few people who took an Accord EXL v6 6-speed sedan.

breld

To their credit, didn't I see a headline that the upcoming Genesis G70 would be available with a manual option? Kudos to them.

au1994

Car makers are a lot of things but stupid isn’t one of them. They make what we buy and protect their profits in doing so. It takes a lot of valuable R&D resources, production time and additional components to make models like wagons, hatchbacks and manuals that just don’t hit their internal payback thresholds.

I do agree that they “push” the market by trimming and expanding their model line at times.  I’d prefer a wagon but choices are limited thus why we have 2 S/CUVs.  The Volvo lineup will get a long look next time around. When we got the X6 they were iffy as to their future so that scared me a bit. Seems much more stable now. Plus if it’s a wagon it’ll be mine. Wife hates wagons but I’d rock a Polestar or a V70 CC.

Many of us here are odd ducks in the marketplace. We are that 1% that would love a manual wagon with no hole in the roof.

Mr_Shiftright

ronsteve said:

While the proliferation of SUVs is certainly an example of giving the market what it wants, I think there's been a lot of stuff intended to TELL the market what it wants, like the elimination of a lot of niche cars (so few wagon options) and manual transmissions.

I wonder how many more people would actually get vehicles with a manual if only they could still get it in something besides a base model?

That's a good point. Conventional wisdom says that we all wished for what we see on the roads, but I don't think that's true either. If it were true, there would be no advertising that is relentlessly image-driven.

At best, we are shown only limited choices and possibilities, and of course those will only be the most profitable ones for the company.

qbrozen

I read once that manufacturers have to crash test vehicles with every drivetrain configuration. Anyone know if that's true? I could see that as a big deterrent when you might sell a few thousand of a particular configuration a year, if you are lucky.

fintail

I've never seen AMG/M etc variants crash tested. It is usually just a normal lease spec trim.

au1994

qbrozen said:

I read once that manufacturers have to crash test vehicles with every drivetrain configuration. Anyone know if that's true? I could see that as a big deterrent when you might sell a few thousand of a particular configuration a year, if you are lucky.

Crash testing an ///M would be painful to see 

xwesx

roadburner said:

I don't think any automobile manufacturer has a laser-sharp focus on what they want their brand to represent. For example, BMW lost the plot with the F10 and F30- the first BMWs that required specific options in order to drive like a BMW. It seems like every brand rushes to fill what is the current popular niche- which today is the CUV/SUV. The lemmings will all race elsewhere when a new segment takes off.

To an extent. Subaru, however, learned its lesson about lack of focus a long time ago, and they are reaping the rewards of that now. Actually, they have reaped such rewards for the past ten years running!

Mr_Shiftright

That's because Subaru finally hired a decent styling department. Prior to that I think their cars were designed in prison.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

That's because Subaru finally hired a decent styling department. Prior to that I think their cars were designed in prison.

Oh, I don't know about that! I find that they are mediocre now, and just flat out ugly for the 4th gen Outback (2010-14) and the current gen Forester (2014-19). Impreza is tolerable since 2012, but worse now than last gen, and, of course, they feel they MUST smack all models with an ugly stick from the time they bring out a prototype to the point they have a production car. It's strange but true! Even the Ascent suffers from this (though not as bad as prior examples).

No, Subaru's image, not styling, is what sells it. On top of that, its performance, in terms of that "safety" and "outdoorsy" image, is there, so few are disappointed when that's why they buy them. While they have pretty much lost me as a potential repeat customer, they have picked up so many more that they really couldn't care less about those they have dropped along the way.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes image is a big factor with Subaru. They certainly had their mechanical issues with the 2.5L engine, and styling was mediocre at best---still isn't a very handsome car, but it's acceptable now IMO. Probably their worst efforts are with their sedans.

suydam

I disagree. I think the new Outback is very handsome, and I love the looks of the new Crosstrek too.

au1994

Outback- nice looking 
Ascent- nice looking in a boxy way
Forestet - not nice looking in a boxy way 
CrossTrek- like the look
Impreza - Dull

Mr_Shiftright

Meh. They're okay. The Outback is the best of the bunch, that's true. At least I know what it is when I see it. I agree with @au1994, the Impreza is not a strong effort at all. The rest of the Subaru line is kind of vanilla.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

I read once that manufacturers have to crash test vehicles with every drivetrain configuration. Anyone know if that's true? I could see that as a big deterrent when you might sell a few thousand of a particular configuration a year, if you are lucky.

I remember reading something like that too. For some reason, the Audi A4 Cabriolet stands out. They didn't bring a stateside a manual transmission/quattro because the take rate would be so low and the cost to crash test wouldn't add up.

xwesx

suydam said:

I disagree. I think the new Outback is very handsome, and I love the looks of the new Crosstrek too.

They came a long way with the newest design of the outback (2015-2019), for sure! Minor tweaks from the prior gen, but all the right ones. The Impreza/CT in newest form is pretty decent, particularly the interior, but still suffer from bulbous lighting. Thankfully, not hideous bulbousness like the gen4 outback, but, frankly, there's no way to make light housings that jut out from the vehicle look nice. Many have tried over the decades, and all look worse than they would with an elegant design; end of story.