Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

ronsteve

Here's the quandary... To my mind, "premium recommended" meant that you wouldn't hurt the engine running it on 87, but needed premium to get the full performance (including MPG) out of it. When the spread between 87 octane and 93 was just 20 cents per gallon, it was a no-brainer to run premium. And when it increased to 60 cents difference, I first decided to keep running premium in the interest of going 200K with the Volvo, and then got a Costco membership so it wasn't such a premium to buy premium.

I'm much more skeptical with Honda/Acura because they're getting the same numbers in a regular-fuel application of the same engine. Remember they have to disclose if the MPG/HP/tq numbers were set with premium in a regular-fuel vehicle (e.g. the Escape 2.0 EcoBoost). I guess as long as Costco keeps the price points similar (Costco premium is about 10 cents more than others' regular on my end of town), I'll probably continue premium if nothing else for (hopefully) longevity. But probably not worry as much about a tank of top-tier 87 or 89 now and then.

The wife doesn't worry as much about what we put in her Jetta, which will probably point me in the direction of a throttle-body service around 75K.

And @benjaminh I think @corvette and @roadburner are the others from Louisville, and @kyfdx is up near Cincinnati, right?

stickguy

my elantra calls for regular, but requires top tier (all I have ever put in), otherwise you are supposed to add a bottle of fuel system cleaner with an oil change. That is specific to the DI engine.

on the RDX, I did once compare the engine to the Accord. I think the engine code was the same, with maybe 1 letter added. But I looked at all the specs, and they were identical (HP might have been off by 2). same compression ratio, redline, pretty much everything they listed. so nothing to indicate what the point of the PUG was.

roadburner

I run Top Tier Premium in everything but the Wrangler(the ti only called for 89 but the the Turner/Conforti chip I installed requires a minimum of 91 octane).
You gotta pay to play...

ronsteve

stickguy said:

my elantra calls for regular, but requires top tier (all I have ever put in), otherwise you are supposed to add a bottle of fuel system cleaner with an oil change. That is specific to the DI engine.

on the RDX, I did once compare the engine to the Accord. I think the engine code was the same, with maybe 1 letter added. But I looked at all the specs, and they were identical (HP might have been off by 2). same compression ratio, redline, pretty much everything they listed. so nothing to indicate what the point of the PUG was.

I'll have to remember the top tier bit whenever one of us make the move to something DI. Mainly the wife because I have always gone at least a little out of my way to keep top tier in mine.

Nice to know another "car guy" sees the Honda issue similar to how I do. For 10 cents a gallon difference I'll run Costco premium, but when I'm on the wrong side of town staring at a 60 cent spread, it's probably gonna be some BP regular. (I avoid Marathon at all costs because I have no interest in feeding the Great Monopolistic Satan.

Of course if I was truly a CCB I'd never run premium unless it's required, right?

breld

Browsing recent sold listings on BaT. 

I Imagine this is overpriced in BaT fashion, but lots of smiles for $13k:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-bmw-m-roadster-27/

A lot less money than the Z4 M coupe that we posted about earlier:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-bmw-m-coupe-3/

tifighter

I’ve been using top tier SolarJuice in mine. They don’t specify zapping quality in the manual, so I’m erring on the side of caution and avoiding the mid-range stuff to maintain my warranty. Can’t be too careful, right?

benjaminh

ronsteve said:

....I'm much more skeptical with Honda/Acura because they're getting the same numbers in a regular-fuel application of the same engine....

The TLX 2.4 is rated at 206 horsepower. The 2.4 in the 2017 Accord is rated at 185 horsepower. And so part of that 21 horsepower difference is the premium fuel. The Acura 2.4 has a higher compression ratio, a dual-stage intake manifold not found in the Accord's engine, a dual exhaust system not found on the Accord's 2.4, etc....

"To maximize power output, the 2.4-liter engine has a dual-stage intake manifold has two different intake runner lengths that are selected based on the operating conditions. An actuator and a set of four butterfly valves control the intake runner switching process. At low engine speeds, the long runners are used to improve low-end torque. At higher engine speeds the system switches to the short intake runners for greater high rpm power. The result is intake tuning that is optimized for the engine's entire operating range....To help boost fuel efficiency and power, the combustion chamber shape and valve angles have been optimized. The included valve angle is a narrow 35 degrees, which decreases the surface-to-volume ratio and helps create a flatter, more compact combustion chamber that reduces unburned hydrocarbon emissions. With this combustion chamber shape and the precise control of direct injection, the compression ratio is set at 11.6:1."

http://acuranews.com/acura-automobiles/channels/tlx-press-kit/releases/2018-acura-tlx-press-kit-powertrain

stickguy

yeah, the 2.4 they did change so that makes sense. the V6 is pretty much the same.

I still need to get out and drive a 2.4l TLX one day. The other car I got interested in and will take a drive in is (don't hate on me) an Infiniti QX30. Not quite sure why, and no clue if a drive will make me want one bad, or badly want to run away!

Infiniti dealer is right next to the Alfa place. Maybe I should swing in there too!

benjaminh

The QX30 is based on the Mercedes A platform, which seems good. Motor Week is mostly positive, but says rear visibility is "extremely poor."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ewdQ8CO5A

stickguy

yes, I assume it is. I would want blind spot on that. Which of course, is pretty rare. Reminds me of the X2. That had the rear visibility of a panel van.

I am just a sucker for compact hatchbacks like this, and I suspect it has great seats and lots of goodies. And should be reasonably quick. But we shall see.

benjaminh

The QX30 seems to cost almost as much as a 2019 RDX. If the QX30 really is 40k with blis I'd go with the Acura.

stickguy

oh, it would not be new. They depreciate hard from what I can see. If we were spending money like that and wanted new, it would probably be an RDX. And that is not happening now.

my plan (du jour of course, subject to change at any moment) is to get something for me, and when it is paid off in a couple of years, then we upgrade the RDX. still likely to get 10 years out of it. Or whatever we get now becomes the wife's everyday car, and the RDX goes back to spare car duty.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

yes, I assume it is. I would want blind spot on that. Which of course, is pretty rare. Reminds me of the X2. That had the rear visibility of a panel van....

MotorWeek also says the back window of the QX30 is unusually small. So it's not just super thick rear roof pillars, it's also poor visibility straight back.

stickguy

one random one from near me. No roof though, which is odd. And I am sure no BLIS. But, still a lot less than new.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/752717663/overview/

a more loaded sport. nice looking seats.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/752425586/overview/

breld

I find those QX30’s appealing as well.  It certainly has some quirks to it, but I like the styling better than the GLA.  

And you’re right about the resale - it’d be a great used car buy. 

corvette

I run regular in the Tahoe (or E85 when it's convenient *and* the price differential makes it attractive *and* I notice that fact). Premium in the G37, per manufacturer's specs. I'd occasionally throw half a tank of E85 in it, as well, if the price were right--most cars seem to be able to run up to about a 30-40% ethanol blend without consequence.

nyccarguy

@corvette

I saw you mentioned the other day that you drive your car most of the time in (D) & not (DS). My car seems MUCH more responsive in (DS) and somewhat "lazy" in (D). Plus in (DS) the car blips the throttle while braking on downshifts.

nyccarguy

@henryn

As far as maintenance goes, I explicitly trust Honda's factory recommendations. Also, common sense dictates (to me anyway) that if you have some kind of fluid that's keeping metal parts cool and from seizing up that it should be changed at some point before the 100K mile mark. I also had the front & rear differential fluid changed in my 2015 AWD Legacy at least once in the 47K miles I owned it.

nyccarguy

@tifighter

I just built a Black/Black Tesla Model 3 (Dual Motor AWD 310 mile range). In addition to the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit, Connecticut has a $3,000 Rebate on Electric Vehicles with a starting base price of under $60K.

$54,500 for a Dual Motor AWD car & $47,500 for a RWD car. $7,000 buys A LOT of snow tires;)

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

Browsing recent sold listings on BaT. 

I Imagine this is overpriced in BaT fashion, but lots of smiles for $13k:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-bmw-m-roadster-27/

A lot less money than the Z4 M coupe that we posted about earlier:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-bmw-m-coupe-3/

I shopped a Z3 M roadster in early spring and I didn't even bother to finish the test drive. Too small for me, and I didn't like the seats at all. Not a comfy car for daily driving. I think the Z4 is more civilized.

tifighter

nyccarguy said:

@tifighter

I just built a Black/Black Tesla Model 3 (Dual Motor AWD 310 mile range). In addition to the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit, Connecticut has a $3,000 Rebate on Electric Vehicles with a starting base price of under $60K.

$54,500 for a Dual Motor AWD car & $47,500 for a RWD car. $7,000 buys A LOT of snow tires;)

At the moment you can still order the long range battery in RWD configuration, which has a real world range of around 330 to 340 miles according to owners on the forums.

I think many people would be fine with the new mid range model, which has a 260 mile range starting at $45k before any incentives. That would put you in the mid to upper thirties based on the incentives you’ve listed. That would include the nicer interior and the glass roof too. Let me know when you need that referral code for 6 mos of free supercharging...

benjaminh

Compared to putting gas in my TLX, charging a Tesla model 3 would probably save me about a thousand dollars a year. But comparably equipped it seems to cost at least $20k more than a TLX 2.4. That's knocked down by the federal incentive by $7.5k for now, but even with that you're looking at c. 13 years before you make up the difference in price. Compared to a Honda Insight a Tesla model 3 will save about $350 a year—but it costs almost 30k more than an Insight. Yes, the Tesla is more stylish and much faster. But once those tax incentives from the feds phase out next year for Tesla....I do see a fair number of Teslas in Louisville, including recently a Model X, which looked in some ways like a large, futuristic, mutated VW Bug! When the light turned green the Tesla Model X accelerated very fast. There is a Tesla supercharging station about a mile from our house.

benjaminh

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/739583664/overview/
"Used 2011 BMW Z4 sDrive30i
$24,500
28,800 miles
Free CARFAX Report
Seller's Notes
Rare manual trans. There are only 3 2011 Z4 30i's on autotrader or cars .com with MT in the entire US. (Many filter as manual but aren't.) This is also the last year for the normally-aspirated inline 6 engine. I am the original owner. Ordered car as I wanted it. Space Gray metallic/Coral Red Kansas leather/Ash grain wood trimCold weather package: heated seats, heated steering wheel, headlight washersPremium package: garage door opener, auto dim mirrors, power folding mirrors, power seats, power lumbar support, auto climate control, ambience lightingComfort access: keyless entry and start, key retains memory of seat, climate control, and radio settingsCar is stock.Car has been trouble free except in first year needed replacement of low pressure fuel pump twice. They installed some bad batches that made a high pitched noise.Otherwise has had only routine maintenance. No accidents or body work.Recent new Continental extreme contact tires."

nyccarguy

"Ordered car as I wanted it"

Without the Sport Package/Sport Seats - NEXT!

kyfdx

We had a Z4 like that... for a month. My wife hated it.

benjaminh

kyfdx said:

We had a Z4 like that... for a month. My wife hated it.

Why did she hate it?

qbrozen

stickguy said:

one random one from near me. No roof though, which is odd. And I am sure no BLIS. But, still a lot less than new. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/752717663/overview/ a more loaded sport. nice looking seats. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/752425586/overview/

Wow. That is cheap. And from a place that overpays for their inventory. Gotta be the 2 owner history holding it back, but that price is $500 below auction value. 

kyfdx

benjaminh said:

kyfdx said:

We had a Z4 like that... for a month. My wife hated it.

Why did she hate it?

Didn't like the "Corvette" feel from the driver's seat. (visibility) Felt like she was in a tub. She had a convertible before, and didn't like the noise. Thought the folding hardtop would make it better, but the change was negligible from a soft top.

The sills are very wide. Entry is not easy.

The rest of the family (my son and I) thought it was amazing, but the car wasn't for us. It did have one of BMW's best ever naturally aspirated engines. 255 HP. We had the same engine in a 2008 X3.

Flipped the lease to a friend, after one month.

stickguy

Which one Q, the silver 2018 at Holman? They have a bunch equipped like this one. Skimpy on features though.

corvette

nyccarguy said:

@corvette I saw you mentioned the other day that you drive your car most of the time in (D) & not (DS). My car seems MUCH more responsive in (DS) and somewhat "lazy" in (D). Plus in (DS) the car blips the throttle while braking on downshifts.

I wonder if mine has some sort of tune on the ECU. I’ve tried it and can’t tell a huge difference, but maybe I need to play with it some more. It holds gears a long time in D. You really have to feather the throttle to get it to upshift before 3,000 rpm. 

I have the remote start installed and working. Just have to mount it and put the dash back together. 

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

"Ordered car as I wanted it"

Without the Sport Package/Sport Seats - NEXT!

Yep; the guy was an idjit.

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

Compared to putting gas in my TLX, charging a Tesla model 3 would probably save me about a thousand dollars a year. But comparably equipped it seems to cost at least $20k more than a TLX 2.4. That's knocked down by the federal incentive by $7.5k for now, but even with that you're looking at c. 13 years before you make up the difference in price. Compared to a Honda Insight a Tesla model 3 will save about $350 a year—but it costs almost 30k more than an Insight. Yes, the Tesla is more stylish and much faster. But once those tax incentives from the feds phase out next year for Tesla....I do see a fair number of Teslas in Louisville, including recently a Model X, which looked in some ways like a large, futuristic, mutated VW Bug! When the light turned green the Tesla Model X accelerated very fast. There is a Tesla supercharging station about a mile from our house.

My Infiniti sucks PUG down at a rate of about 20 mpg (on a good week in the summer) and I drive damn near close to 20K per year. I pay anywhere from $3.19 - $3.85 per gallon.

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

benjaminh said:

Compared to putting gas in my TLX, charging a Tesla model 3 would probably save me about a thousand dollars a year. But comparably equipped it seems to cost at least $20k more than a TLX 2.4. That's knocked down by the federal incentive by $7.5k for now, but even with that you're looking at c. 13 years before you make up the difference in price. Compared to a Honda Insight a Tesla model 3 will save about $350 a year—but it costs almost 30k more than an Insight. Yes, the Tesla is more stylish and much faster. But once those tax incentives from the feds phase out next year for Tesla....I do see a fair number of Teslas in Louisville, including recently a Model X, which looked in some ways like a large, futuristic, mutated VW Bug! When the light turned green the Tesla Model X accelerated very fast. There is a Tesla supercharging station about a mile from our house.

My Infiniti sucks PUG down at a rate of about 20 mpg (on a good week in the summer) and I drive damn near close to 20K per year. I pay anywhere from $3.19 - $3.85 per gallon.

Well, duh... you leave it in Sport mode.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Which one Q, the silver 2018 at Holman? They have a bunch equipped like this one. Skimpy on features though.

The Sport at Carvana

nyccarguy

kyfdx said:

nyccarguy said:

benjaminh said:

Compared to putting gas in my TLX, charging a Tesla model 3 would probably save me about a thousand dollars a year. But comparably equipped it seems to cost at least $20k more than a TLX 2.4. That's knocked down by the federal incentive by $7.5k for now, but even with that you're looking at c. 13 years before you make up the difference in price. Compared to a Honda Insight a Tesla model 3 will save about $350 a year—but it costs almost 30k more than an Insight. Yes, the Tesla is more stylish and much faster. But once those tax incentives from the feds phase out next year for Tesla....I do see a fair number of Teslas in Louisville, including recently a Model X, which looked in some ways like a large, futuristic, mutated VW Bug! When the light turned green the Tesla Model X accelerated very fast. There is a Tesla supercharging station about a mile from our house.

My Infiniti sucks PUG down at a rate of about 20 mpg (on a good week in the summer) and I drive damn near close to 20K per year. I pay anywhere from $3.19 - $3.85 per gallon.

Well, duh... you leave it in Sport mode.

Otherwise it isn't any fun!

"You tell Howard that it's not fun. It's not funny." - B. Crystal

pensfan83

I barely have the Acura out of Sport mode, it's such a different car in that or Sport +. I tried Econ once....worst 20 seconds ever.

stickguy

I liked the sport. Even better, they would drop it off and pick up the Elantra at the same time. Not sure how trade credit works, and swapping over my registration and plates.

stickguy

Actually, per the car fax, that sport was sold as Infiniti COO. I assume that carries over, so extra warranty. Can’t tell though if it has the BLIS package too. I hate ads without much detail.

28firefighter

The Stelvio lives in D (which is the equivalent of sport mode). Still trying to get the fuel economy as low as I can go - lowest average per tank was like 19 MPG and that was city only driving and really thrashing it. I'm happy.

qbrozen

I have found the economy changes drastically based on the knob setting. The A really does putter along. I'm at about 23mpg per the OBC with using A this tank. Only about 1/4 through, though. Up until now, I mostly used N, with the occasional use of D, usually when alone in the car, and have not broken 20 mpg.

henryn

nyccarguy said:

@henryn

As far as maintenance goes, I explicitly trust Honda's factory recommendations. Also, common sense dictates (to me anyway) that if you have some kind of fluid that's keeping metal parts cool and from seizing up that it should be changed at some point before the 100K mile mark. I also had the front & rear differential fluid changed in my 2015 AWD Legacy at least once in the 47K miles I owned it.

I tend to follow (or exceed) factory maintenance recommendations as well. My comment was just that I had not encountered the recommendations you were talking about. I do learn a bit in here. I had no idea that the "stop-start" feature on my F150 caused the truck to require a special battery, for instance. Not something that's obvious or widely known.

Back in my younger days, when I was hot rodding, I worked or re-worked a few differentials. Lowering the rear gear is a tremendous performance boost, as most everyone in here knows.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

I have found the economy changes drastically based on the knob setting. The A really does putter along. I'm at about 23mpg per the OBC with using A this tank. Only about 1/4 through, though. Up until now, I mostly used N, with the occasional use of D, usually when alone in the car, and have not broken 20 mpg.

Maybe I should give N a try for a tank of gas. Going from D it feels downright lethargic the few times I've tried it out.

tifighter

benjaminh said:

Compared to putting gas in my TLX, charging a Tesla model 3 would probably save me about a thousand dollars a year. But comparably equipped it seems to cost at least $20k more than a TLX 2.4. That's knocked down by the federal incentive by $7.5k for now, but even with that you're looking at c. 13 years before you make up the difference in price. Compared to a Honda Insight a Tesla model 3 will save about $350 a year—but it costs almost 30k more than an Insight. Yes, the Tesla is more stylish and much faster. But once those tax incentives from the feds phase out next year for Tesla....I do see a fair number of Teslas in Louisville, including recently a Model X, which looked in some ways like a large, futuristic, mutated VW Bug! When the light turned green the Tesla Model X accelerated very fast. There is a Tesla supercharging station about a mile from our house.

For me, ultimate TCO isn't what the Model 3 is all about, so cross shopping one with an Insight would never enter my thought process. I suppose someone looking at an upper trim Accord Hybrid might consider a 3, since the 3 is amazing when it comes to efficiency. But they are different sizes and in totally different performance categories.

At the end of the day, the Model 3 was meant to compete with the 3 series, and at the moment, 328, 340 and M3. It seems to be doing this pretty well. As for the tax credit, there will continue be a surge in demand to take advantage of it. But ultimately, the car is compelling on its own and I think it will find steady sales long term and the starting price keeps creeping down. They have the charging network. And they haven't even begun international sales yet. And wait until the Y comes out; it will be the cash cow for Tesla.

28firefighter

That is a very pragmatic approach to buying and owning a Tesla.

tbirdmarco

 All interesting talk in here today on fuel economy in cars, stick guy is there a punch coming soon, ha ha ha ha. Have a good night I’ll be back in here again tomorrow. Lol lol lol

benjaminh

stickguy said:

Actually, per the car fax, that sport was sold as Infiniti COO. I assume that carries over, so extra warranty. Can’t tell though if it has the BLIS package too. I hate ads without much detail.

If it doesn't say it has blis it almost certainly does not. I couldn't find any mention of it.

Are you thinking of trying Carvana? Are they offering a good trade-in on your Elantra Sport?

stickguy

Yes, they are (or have been as if a couple weeks ago) been offering top dollar.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

Yes, they are (or have been as if a couple weeks ago) been offering top dollar.

If I may ask, what is top dollar or a nearly new Elantra Sport? And is there a Carvana near you, or would you do the delivery option?

stickguy

Not far away. I think just over in philly. And about $17k

benjaminh

stickguy said:

Not far away. I think just over in philly. And about $17k

If you don't buy from Carvana, will they give you the same $ for the Elantra?