Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

stickguy said:

man, I think some of you are paying as much for daycare as I just finished paying for college. And that was harsh.

Yup. One of my friends recently moved to Louisville and it was a complete nightmare for her to find a place to rent in a good school district. The alternative is to find somewhere in a questionable school district and pay for private school, which is more expensive than I had ever imagined. And she will have to move again when the kid is old enough for high school, since a desirable high school is in a different district. Glad I don't have to deal with that!

stickguy

20 years ago we paid more to move to our current house when my oldest was just starting elementary school. We were not at all happy with the district where we lived. so bit the bullet. Was definitely worth it, since both kids got a great education and did well after HS. But, we are still here, paying nosebleed taxes for schools we no longer need. Not having kids makes looking for a new house much, much easier!

corvette

Yeah, I didn't pay any attention at all to school districts when I bought my place. It's a great neighborhood but turns out it's in a not so great school district. Most of the neighbors who have kids send them to private school, which means they probably have a lot more disposable income than I do!

boomchek

Speaking of electric cars I just attended a leadership conference with keynote speaker ex Ford CEO Alan Mulally. Someone from the audience asked him a question about the future of electric cars and he said that until battery technology advances and infrastructure improves, electric cars will be a relatively small segment compared to ICE cars.

I agree with him as it's hard to beat the convenience of filling up in 5 minutes, or having a gas station at every corner.

I drove a BMW i3 for a week or so that we had at my previous work. Fun car and different than anything I've ever driven and quick but the range was about 80kms (50 miles) and since I didn't have a 220 volt charging station at home I had to plug it into a regular wall outlet to juice it. Charging time for a full charge according to the car was about 12 hours when plugged into a wall socket.

That's 12 hours of charging to get 50 miles of driving. That's just crazy.

tifighter

It is crazy, but to be fair, the i3 is a car that came out in 2014. If we had been having this conversation in 2015, we'd be talking about the Leaf with an 84 mile range, the i3 around the same, the new Soul EV that was coming soon with an astounding 93 mile range. All of which could be fast charged with a 50 KW charger to get 60-ish miles in 30 minutes. Alternatively, you could spend $100K+ on a Tesla S.

Now we can talk about cars with 238 miles to 310 mile range. Fast charging at up to 125 KW to get 170+ miles in 30 minutes. You can spend $45K to get a Tesla with more range than the S had 3 years ago. So, I'm curious to see what we can talk about in 2021. The technology is moving quickly.

The longer legacy automakers keep thinking that the EV segment is something that may only matter at some distant future date, the further behind they will find themselves. GM has wisely made some investments in EV tech. The Germans are now getting into it. As are the Koreans. The Japanese, excepting Nissan, are way out in the weeds at the moment. Never mind FCA or PSA. And Mulally's former team? With their current course, I fear they may not even be around in a decade. The European and especially Chinese markets are moving towards zero-emission markets quickly. Delay, and they will all risk the consequences. No global auto maker can sit out the Chinese market.

breld

28firefighter said:

That Integra didn't go to the original owner, but this seller definitely took a bath. Sold for $8k on this and he paid $9250 + 5% buyers fee + transport from CA to TX on it in January.

A bath? I’d say that’s more like barely dipping your toes in the water to test the temperature.

28firefighter

Fair enough.  Just feels high (to me) because of the short term of ownership. 

ronsteve

28firefighter said:

Fair enough.  Just feels high (to me) because of the short term of ownership. 

Is 9 months really that short of a time in this group?

benjaminh

$70,000+ Tesla Model 3 accelerates faster than a Corvette....

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-tesla-model-3-dual-motor-performance-electric-car-acceleration

nyccarguy

A few interesting sightings at a local BMW dealer's CPO lot. No doubt overpriced:


a Diesel Wagon in White
https://www.bmwofbridgeport.com/inventory/certified-used-2016-bmw-3-series-328d-xdrive-awd-station-wagon-wba8j1c52gk458339

This manual, RWD, 2er will most likely sit for a while
https://www.bmwofbridgeport.com/inventory/certified-used-2016-bmw-2-series-m235i-rwd-2dr-car-wba1j7c54gv290125

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

When they make an electric car that compares favorably in every way to an ICE equivalent, I'll be there. But, until then, I'm burnin dino bones.

And, when I say in every way, I mean in every way. So, to take my car, for example, that's 0-60 in less than 5.5 secs, AWD, hatchback utility, sub-$400 sign and drive, and I'll even settle for 200-mile range on a 10-degree day with the heat blasting.

Me too. I just pumped another 17 gallons of PUG into the Q40 last night (@$3.559/gallon) to the tune of 18.38 mpg. Another $60 and change to the Shell Station.

benjaminh

We are averaging about 29.5 mpg city and highway after 7000 miles in our 2018 CR-V AWD. Pretty good imho for a vehicle of this size with turbo power.

benjaminh

The new Costco car special has come out, and it seems fairly good. You can get any GM vehicle at the supplier price, plus you can add on top of that any other incentives available, plus you add on top of that a $700 Costco cash card.

How about this loaded 2018 Buick Regal Tour X AWD with 250 hp turbo with a list price of $40k already marked down to $32k before the supplier price. Maybe the supplier price cuts another two thousand (5%? from msrp) off of that? And then you get your $700 Costco card for holiday shopping. Not a bad deal on this freakish wagon imho...

https://www.courtesybuickgmc.net/VehicleDetails/new-2018-Buick-Regal_TourX-Essence-Louisville-KY/3207164643






loaded with options, including....

"AUDIO SYSTEM FEATURE, BOSE PREMIUM 8-SPEAKER SYSTEM includes subwoofer (Included and only available with (WPY) Sights and Sounds Package.) (UQA)
AUDIO SYSTEM, BUICK INFOTAINMENT SYSTEM WITH NAVIGATION, AM/FM STEREO, SIRIUSXM with 8" diagonal Color Touch Screen, includes 1 USB port and 2 rear charge-only ports, Bluetooth streaming for audio and select phones and Phone Integration for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto capability for compatible phone (Included and only available with (WPY) Sights and Sounds Package. No longer available to order. Replaced by new radio (IOT) 8" diagonal Buick Infotainment System with Navigation.) *No Longer Factory Orderable, See Dealer for Current Availability* (IO6)
AUDIO SYSTEM, SIRIUSXM AND HD RADIO (Included and only available with (WPY) Sights and Sounds Package.) (U2M)
CARGO MANAGEMENT, REAR STORAGE AREA includes u-rail with adjustable cargo fence, under floor storage and retractable cargo shade (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (ANY)
DRIVER CONFIDENCE PACKAGE #1 includes (A45) Memory Package, (AVK) driver 4-way power lumbar seat adjuster, (AVU) front passenger 4-way power lumbar seat adjuster, (DXA) outside heated, power-adjustable, driver side auto-dimming mirrors, (K4C) Wireless Charging, (T4L) LED headlamps, (T95) cornering lamps, (TR7) headlamps with auto leveling, (UD7) Rear Park Assist, (UFG) Rear Cross Traffic Alert and (UKC) Lane Change Alert with Side Blind Zone Alert (B26)
EBONY, LEATHER-APPOINTED SEAT TRIM with Ebony interior accents (H0Y)
EMISSIONS, FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS (FE9)
ENGINE, 2.0L TURBO DOHC 4-CYLINDER SIDI WITH VARIABLE VALVE TIMING (VVT) (250 hp [186.4 kW] @ 5400 rpm, 295 lb-ft of torque (398 N-m) @ 3000 - 4000 rpm) (STD) (LTG)
ESSENCE PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP includes standard equipment (1SL)
HEADLAMP CONTROL, LEVELING SYSTEM, AUTOMATIC (Included and only available with (T4L) LED headlamps.) (TR7)
HEADLAMPS, LED Includes (T95) Cornering lamps and (TR7) headlamp control.) (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1. (T4L)
LAMPS, CORNERING (Included and only available with (T4L) LED headlamps.) (T95)
LANE CHANGE ALERT WITH SIDE BLIND ZONE ALERT (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (UKC)
MEMORY PACKAGE recalls 2 driver "presets" for 8-way power driver seat, outside mirrors and driver personalization (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (A45)
MIRRORS, OUTSIDE HEATED, POWER-ADJUSTABLE, DRIVER SIDE AUTO-DIMMING (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (DXA)
MOONROOF, POWER-SLIDING PANORAMIC (C3U)
REAR CROSS-TRAFFIC ALERT (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (UFG)
REAR PARK ASSIST, ULTRASONIC WITH AUDIBLE WARNING (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (UD7)
SEAT ADJUSTER, DRIVER 4-WAY POWER LUMBAR (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (AVK)
SEAT ADJUSTER, FRONT PASSENGER 4-WAY POWER LUMBAR (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (AVU)
SEATS, FRONT BUCKET (A51)
SIGHTS AND SOUNDS PACKAGE includes (IOT) Buick Infotainment System with Navigation and 8" diagonal color touch screen, (U2M) HD Radio and (UQA) Bose premium 8-speaker system (WPY)
SPORT RED (Not available on 1SV models.) (GG7)
TRANSMISSION, 8-SPEED AUTOMATIC (STD) (MRC)
WIRELESS CHARGING (Included and only available with (B26) Driver Confidence Package #1.) (K4C)"

tjc78

I really like the new Regal. I wouldn’t want the wagon but would seriously look into a sedan next November when the Elantra goes back if they leased well.

benjaminh

Another Buick freak—a 2018 Buick Sportback. A 4-door hatchback that's much better than any Chevy Citation ever made. Msrp 30k, but marked down 6k to 24k even before the supplier discount. Has a 250 hp 2.0 turbo. If the supplier discount is c.$1.5k, then you'd be looking at getting a full size loaded Buick hatchback about the price of a Civic LX hatchback....

https://www.courtesybuickgmc.net/VehicleDetails/new-2018-Buick-Regal_Sportback-Preferred-Louisville-KY/3150000183

stickguy

I love that wagon, but it is definitely on the big side. only 4 inches shorter and narrower than an MDX. But I guess that is pretty significant, especially the width. I guess I could live with it. Wife would be happy with the room. I suppose 1 extra foot of length won't make it unmanageable.

The sportback style is something I have always loved too. That particular unit is too sparsely equipped though.

I really like this one though. https://www.courtesybuickgmc.net/VehicleDetails/new-2018-Buick-Regal_Sportback-Essence-Louisville-KY/3202208023#close

stickguy

If I was going off the rails to get a Buick, it would be like this one. Well loaded, and I love the colors.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/744056906/overview/#

roadburner

benjaminh said:

Another Buick freak—a 2018 Buick Sportback. A 4-door hatchback that's much better than any Chevy Citation ever made.

You could say the same thing about most high-end lawn tractors.

roadburner

benjaminh said:

Another Buick freak—a 2018 Buick Sportback. A 4-door hatchback that's much better than any Chevy Citation ever made. Msrp 30k, but marked down 6k to 24k even before the supplier discount. Has a 250 hp 2.0 turbo. If the supplier discount is c.$1.5k, then you'd be looking at getting a full size loaded Buick hatchback about the price of a Civic LX hatchback....

https://www.courtesybuickgmc.net/VehicleDetails/new-2018-Buick-Regal_Sportback-Preferred-Louisville-KY/3150000183

It's a nice enough car I suppose, but too big and too slow for me. I'd much rather have a Civic Si- even though it's hardly a ball of fire either.

ab348

They can't seem to give those new Regals away. Up here in Canada there is zero marketing/advertising support for them and in my area dealers do not even have any in stock, not a one. I do not like the styling much and think they are very big, certainly too big for me. I can delude myself into rationalizing that their failure in the marketplace is due to the fact that most seem to have all-black interiors.

roadburner

I just asked my bride "How would you like a Buick..." "NO!"

stickguy

until Benjamin posted the links above, I kinda forgot they even exist. Not usually on my radar. But looking at the ads, appears to be a nicely equipped car, and I find the styling attractive. Not sure about the interior, but I really have not been a fan of recent GM dashboards (Chevy in particular). Would have to see it in person.

I do have a soft spot for wagons. One of those could easily serve as our workhorse vehicle instead of a CUV>

benjaminh

Usually the only GM interiors I like are in Cadillacs. Even Buick interiors to me give off something of a rental car vibe. I think it's the textures of the plastics and the shapes of the buttons. Buick msrps are similar to Acura, but Acura interiors are a leap above in refinement and feel imho. That being said, I like that Buick tried something different with the Tour X and Sportback. But with the seeming failure of these models in the marketplace I'm guessing that they are not long for this world. With the Costco discount I think Buicks are a good buy right now, but resale values are probably not so good.

kyfdx

Lease programs suck on the Regal. I'm surprised they can sell any of them. Are they still built on the Opel platform?

breld

28firefighter said:

Fair enough.  Just feels high (to me) because of the short term of ownership. 

Oh don't get me wrong - you're absolutely right. My wife and I have become a bit TOO numb to short-term depreciation losses for sure. That $2,000-ish loss on the Integra over 9 months - about $222/month. I WISH we would fall out there more often.

breld

Those Buicks are pretty attractive exterior-wise. @jpp5862 and @michaell and I admired them at the car show earlier this year, but quickly noted how cheap they seemed on the inside.

At those discounts, I would say they are a great buy for someone who will keep them for an extended amount of time, and perhaps already admires the Buick nameplate. Like my in-laws.

stickguy

with any shorter term "flip" (like if I do swap out of my Elantra soon) I just do the same math, converting it into a month amount, then compare that to a cheap lease. Pretty sure right now, factoring in everything, I am roughly going to be in the same spot as if I had gotten the lowball lease on one I tried for (but could not pull off). So, I am not really out anything.

I think people tend to forget that even if you keep a car a long time, it still has monthly costs for depreciation, whether you sell it or not.

stickguy

I was going to look at some cars today, but it is rainy, windy and very wet from overnight pouring rain. Maybe it tails off this afternoon. Wife already said she isn't going. So, I guess I should get my rain jacket out, and get moving!

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

with any shorter term "flip" (like if I do swap out of my Elantra soon) I just do the same math, converting it into a month amount, then compare that to a cheap lease. Pretty sure right now, factoring in everything, I am roughly going to be in the same spot as if I had gotten the lowball lease on one I tried for (but could not pull off). So, I am not really out anything.

I think people tend to forget that even if you keep a car a long time, it still has monthly costs for depreciation, whether you sell it or not.

Which is what makes leasing so attractive. All other things considered, your depreciation costs are fixed. You drive 7,500 miles per year, the car costs $X per month. You drive 20,000 miles per year, the car costs $Y per month. Your monthly payments are generally less, you don't have to worry about "what you're going to get on the trade in," if that parking lot bump shows up on the carfax, being upside down on a loan. It also keeps those of us that are affected by this CCBA "issue" in a car for a fixed period of time.

roadburner

I looked at a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk this week- 3.0 liter diesel V6. I haven't driven it but it is very well equipped- heated seats/wheel, HIDs, decent audio, parking sensors, navigation- and skid plates and air suspension for the nasty stuff.
Too bad it's so expensive- especially since there's a steep depreciation curve.

stickguy

that is why you look at slightly used ones. the problem, in this case most likely, is when it is an oddball unit, and you can't find a slightly used one, or if you do it is just as expensive. That works better on commodity cars, like a Malibu or Altima that sell in big numbers.

stickguy

I have fond memories of these. No place to park it, but fun to drive. I probably put on about 2,000 miles on a Ryder version of this truck (with some more on various similar Internationals). Though this is a 24' box. mostly I had a 26' box. Piloting through city traffic and out the Schyukill expressway, that was always an adventure.

actually really easy to drive. Not back up, but going forward, amazing visibility and you could really tell where the front corners were. Very easy to pull up close to a car. That put fear in a few people! Quite wide though. great mirrors too.

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/2005-freightliner-m2-24ft-box/6733895807.html

roadburner

stickguy said:

that is why you look at slightly used ones. the problem, in this case most likely, is when it is an oddball unit, and you can't find a slightly used one, or if you do it is just as expensive. That works better on commodity cars, like a Malibu or Altima that sell in big numbers.

The Trailhawk was introduced in 2017, so they are thin on the ground. Non-negotiables would be CPO coverage and the Trailhawk Luxury Group(HID headlamps, LED fogs, and rain-sensing wipers).

pensfan83

roadburner said:

that is why you look at slightly used ones. the problem, in this case most likely, is when it is an oddball unit, and you can't find a slightly used one, or if you do it is just as expensive. That works better on commodity cars, like a Malibu or Altima that sell in big numbers.

The Trailhawk was introduced in 2017, so they are thin on the ground. Non-negotiables would be CPO coverage and the Trailhawk Luxury Group(HID headlamps, LED fogs, and rain-sensing wipers).

Ditto. A fair number of them around here have the package with all the safety nannies too. The only thing that I would really want would be the adaptive cruise. I would also want a V8 as the V6 felt overtaxed to me.

tjc78

roadburner said:

I just asked my bride "How would you like a Buick..." "NO!"

My wife loves her Buick and the two Buick’s before that! 

tjc78

@stickguy
Thats the exact combo I would want in that car.  Same exterior as our Enclave, but ours has the saddle (Chocachinno in Buick speak) interior. 

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

I looked at a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk this week- 3.0 liter diesel V6. I haven't driven it but it is very well equipped- heated seats/wheel, HIDs, decent audio, parking sensors, navigation- and skid plates and air suspension for the nasty stuff.
Too bad it's so expensive- especially since there's a steep depreciation curve.

I know it isn't your thing, but you might want to look into leasing one. Usually the money factor is dirt cheap coupled with a so so residual and healthy discount off sticker make the JGC quite attractive to lease.

stickguy

I base nothing on the badge. Just the merits of the car. For some reason, my wife, that really knows nothing about cars, refuses to consider a few makes (can't even get her to look at a Ford, and she turns her nose up at Chevy's, which is odd since her dad was a "chevy guy").

Some of course I need more research and convincing on before I buy (thanks to quality reputation) but if a Buick functionally is a good fit, why not?

roadburner

pensfan83 said:

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

that is why you look at slightly used ones. the problem, in this case most likely, is when it is an oddball unit, and you can't find a slightly used one, or if you do it is just as expensive. That works better on commodity cars, like a Malibu or Altima that sell in big numbers.

The Trailhawk was introduced in 2017, so they are thin on the ground. Non-negotiables would be CPO coverage and the Trailhawk Luxury Group(HID headlamps, LED fogs, and rain-sensing wipers).

Ditto. A fair number of them around here have the package with all the safety nannies too. The only thing that I would really want would be the adaptive cruise. I would also want a V8 as the V6 felt overtaxed to me.

I looked at the Car and Driver test and they noted the V8 is only 0.6 seconds quicker to 60 mph. I'd probably go with the turbodiesel V6 if I didn't like the gas V6.

tjc78

Adaptive cruise is really nice.   You get used to it quickly.  

Had my Mom’s RAV on Thursday and realized it had it.  I didn’t know that was part of Toyota safety sense or whatever they call it.  Her car isn’t super equipped, XLE trim.  

I also told her she needs to get it l into service.  Her lane departure assist isn’t assisting.  I asked her if she noticed and she said it’s been that way for a little while.  I checked all the settings and it says LDA “on”  

You would think a message would come up telling you it’s inoperative 

suydam

The $700 Costco card is a nice bonus when you’re looking for a new vehicle. They had that promo when we leased our Volt.

tbirdmarco

 Like all the cars you posted above Benjamin from the Cosco auto program, hey if I like it I would lease it or buy it depending regardless. But to me a lot of GM interiors fuel to plasticky big time. But that’s just my opinion. So did you get out stick guy do some core looking, I know it’s a lousy day out today. Yes does grand Cherokees or expensive  big-time expensive, if you could find a slightly used one with low miles should help tremendously. Or lake mentioned above just peace. I think pretty much covered all for now, have a good day off. 

kyfdx

Young driver needs help choosing their next car:
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/52968/general/x/mazda-cx5-vs-volvo-xc60-vs-toyota-4runner/p1?new=1

Mr_Shiftright

boomchek said:

Speaking of electric cars I just attended a leadership conference with keynote speaker ex Ford CEO Alan Mulally. Someone from the audience asked him a question about the future of electric cars and he said that until battery technology advances and infrastructure improves, electric cars will be a relatively small segment compared to ICE cars.

I agree with him as it's hard to beat the convenience of filling up in 5 minutes, or having a gas station at every corner.

I drove a BMW i3 for a week or so that we had at my previous work. Fun car and different than anything I've ever driven and quick but the range was about 80kms (50 miles) and since I didn't have a 220 volt charging station at home I had to plug it into a regular wall outlet to juice it. Charging time for a full charge according to the car was about 12 hours when plugged into a wall socket.

That's 12 hours of charging to get 50 miles of driving. That's just crazy.

I think he's right about that. There has to be a breakthrough in battery technology, not only in terms of range, but in terms of weight and cost to build. Also if EV battery production really ramps up, there are many environmental issues associated with mining and recycling There's some pretty toxic stuff in present-day batteries.

Last of all, and this is stretching the topic quite a bit--owning an EV without additional lifestyle changes may negate any environmental benefits. For instance, a surfing vacation to some far off place by jetliner will add as much C02 to the air, per passenger, as one year's worth of C02 put out by an ICE car.

Mr_Shiftright

benjaminh said:

Another Buick freak—a 2018 Buick Sportback. A 4-door hatchback that's much better than any Chevy Citation ever made. Msrp 30k, but marked down 6k to 24k even before the supplier discount. Has a 250 hp 2.0 turbo. If the supplier discount is c.$1.5k, then you'd be looking at getting a full size loaded Buick hatchback about the price of a Civic LX hatchback....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kinda funny that automakers are still re-inventing the 1980s era Saab 5-door sedan:

ab348

kyfdx said:

Lease programs suck on the Regal. I'm surprised they can sell any of them. Are they still built on the Opel platform?

Yes, the Epsilon II. They are built by PSA at the former GM plant in Russelsheim, Germany. Don't know how long that relationship is going to last.

roadburner

boomchek said:

I drove a BMW i3 for a week or so that we had at my previous work. Fun car and different than anything I've ever driven and quick but the range was about 80kms (50 miles) and since I didn't have a 220 volt charging station at home I had to plug it into a regular wall outlet to juice it. Charging time for a full charge according to the car was about 12 hours when plugged into a wall socket.

That's 12 hours of charging to get 50 miles of driving. That's just crazy.

As I've stated repeatedly, the i3 was designed as a city car. Our 2016 REx averaged about 70 miles on the battery. The IC motor seldom fired up at all- aside from the automatic 90 day maintenance cycle. The slow recharge time on 110 volts simply wasn't an issue as my wife drove it around 30 miles per day. I'd buy a CPO i3 for my work beater if I had a fifth spot in the garage.
That said, EVs won't make an impact on new car sales until their range hits 300+ miles AND their recharge time is under 10-15 minutes.

Mr_Shiftright

Well EVs are almost there with 300 mile range--on a good day, a Chevy Bolt, Kona or Model 3 can do it--but probably not in winter, or at higher speeds.

I think the fast charge time is even MORE important than range, because 98% of people don't drive 300 miles in a day, or even half that.

suydam

Mr_Shiftright said:

boomchek said:

Speaking of electric cars I just attended a leadership conference with keynote speaker ex Ford CEO Alan Mulally. Someone from the audience asked him a question about the future of electric cars and he said that until battery technology advances and infrastructure improves, electric cars will be a relatively small segment compared to ICE cars.

I agree with him as it's hard to beat the convenience of filling up in 5 minutes, or having a gas station at every corner.

I drove a BMW i3 for a week or so that we had at my previous work. Fun car and different than anything I've ever driven and quick but the range was about 80kms (50 miles) and since I didn't have a 220 volt charging station at home I had to plug it into a regular wall outlet to juice it. Charging time for a full charge according to the car was about 12 hours when plugged into a wall socket.

That's 12 hours of charging to get 50 miles of driving. That's just crazy.

I think he's right about that. There has to be a breakthrough in battery technology, not only in terms of range, but in terms of weight and cost to build. Also if EV battery production really ramps up, there are many environmental issues associated with mining and recycling There's some pretty toxic stuff in present-day batteries.

Last of all, and this is stretching the topic quite a bit--owning an EV without additional lifestyle changes may negate any environmental benefits. For instance, a surfing vacation to some far off place by jetliner will add as much C02 to the air, per passenger, as one year's worth of C02 put out by an ICE car.

As far as charge times, you very quickly get used to a different way of fueling. Overnight, or at a mall while you shop, have dinner, or see a movie. It becomes very automatic. Put the charger in, go off and do something else.

As to a vacation abroad, well, people who drive ICE engines take those too, so I’m not sure what your point is.

Mr_Shiftright

The point was that EVs are, in reality, probably no more environmentally friendly than an ICE, if you factor in all the variables from the raw materials gathered to the habits of the end user. They may indeed be cheaper to run, quieter, perhaps even more reliable, but like every technology, there are trade-offs and there is hyperbole.