Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

woodyww

But as with a MB, I am sure with a Volvo the first thing to do when buying a used one is to seek out a reputable indy shop

I'm to the point where--if I buy a newer bmw, w/warranty, I'd have to take it 20-60 miles to a bmw dealer for warranty repairs. And the one 20 miles away is reportedly awful. But there's an excellent reputable bmw indy shop about a mile away, for my older bmw, & I can walk back to my house from there if I have to leave it.

There's a good toyota dealer 2 miles from me--seems like all toyota dealers have lousy deals on used toyotas tho.....

gouldn

You hit the nail on the head ... I bought a CPO 07 BMW, and I'm almost rather pay an indy to work on it than deal with the dealer (even though the dealer service is free until 50K).

Next time I'm going to buy and older non-cpo BMW and have the indy shop check it out first. I'd rather pay to have it serviced right than deal with the dealer's service dept. Even though it's 'free' the cost of the service is built into the premium spent on CPO.

roadburner

BMW dealers are like any other franchise; there are bad ones and good ones. I'm fortunate in that I have a very good dealer(Swope BMW, Louisville) AND an exceptional indie shop(Performance Specialties). Our service advisor at the dealer is really first-rate; my wife-who grew up in a "Buick family"-won't consider anything but a BMW because of the great treatment she receives at our dealer. On the other hand, the local Mazda dealers are hopelessly inept. I have to drive to Cincinnati to receive decent service and/or warranty work.

fintail

My mother's wrecked Corolla is no more - it's been settled, and her entire purchase price was for all intents and purposes refunded by the insurance company (as she had the car for only a couple months)...in fact, she claims she came out $4 ahead in all of this, but I don't know whether or not to believe that.

On Friday, she bought the 40K mile 2003 Camry. As usual, she didn't bargain too hard, knocking $300 off their asking price, and getting them to throw in a new set of floor mats. And she bought a 6 year warranty on it for something like $1800, as she's a worrier after her Taurus slowly but steadily went downhill after its warranty was gone. She's very happy with the car and its features, like the moonroof and the manual rear sunshade. I think she made a good decision, from riding in both it and another 07 Corolla, the Camry seems like a lot more car, and it cost a couple grand less than she paid for her Corolla.

woodyww

I saw another e39 wagon in black today like mine, & I realized how boring they look in black, esp. the non-sport. Then I thought, "I don't care", it's been one of the best cars I've ever owned, & with the silly low miles, it'd be dumb to sell it.

I saw these pics today of my e24 M6, & my '98 RR together, when I owned them both, it was sweet owning 2 such gorgeous cars, but the dues I went thru traveling all over, getting repairs & estimates for them, was like a full time job. When I was between local indie bmw mechanics & went to a good one in NH, got a $4K estimate for work needed on my M6, it was 15 years old by then, so not unreasonable, but travel, renting a car, going back & forth, it was like the Last Straw.

roadburner, when you go to Cincinnati, do you get time to hang out or get good chili? Supposed to be a cool town.....

kyfdx

You know Cincinnati chili isn't really what anyone else recognizes as chili, right?

Don't get me wrong... I'm addicted to it... It's just different..

lilengineerboy

You know Cincinnati chili isn't really what anyone else recognizes as chili, right?

Don't get me wrong... I'm addicted to it... It's just different..

When we are down there visiting family, its a game to see how many times we can get Cincinnati Chilli in a weekend trip...we usually get it on the drive in Friday night on 75 (I think Findley had a Gold Star...) and then once we get into Cincy, we spend our time bouncing back and forth on Cross County, and the western end has all the chili places...

I have to go down there in Aug for a family (dis-)function so I am hoping to check out the Kings Automall used car selection while I'm down there.

kyfdx

If you are coming from that direction, I think Lima has a Skyline, as well...

You'll have to come a little farther south for the really good stuff... Camp Washington Chili at the Hopple Street exit off I-75, or to Newport for Dixie Chili.. :P

michaellno

Don't get me started on Cincinnati Chili .. I love the stuff.

There was a Gold Star here in Denver for a short time (I know, not the best, but at least it was something). When I traveled, I tried to get to Skyline whenever I was in town.

Rant time ....

I took the wife's VUE to the dealer for a LOF and tire rotation on Saturday (it was the last free one we got with the purchase). As I think I had previously mentioned somewhere here on Edmunds, my local Saturn dealer closed and merged its operations with the main facility. So, what used to be a 20 minute drive is now a 45 minute drive to the other side of town.

Anyway, I'm waiting for the VUE to be done and the service advisor wants me to take a look at something .. apparently, there is a finishing nail embedded in the inside sidewall of the left rear tire. They tell me that the damage cannot be repaired and, that since the tires have less than half their life left and that the VUE is AWD, I'll need to buy 4 tires, not just 2. They quote me a price of $600.

I call the boss and she nixes the purchase, figuring that we can A) get the tires at one of the shops in town where it will be easier to get rotations and service, and for a cheaper price.

On checkout, dealer has me sign a waiver stating the "vehicle is unfit to drive". Drive home - no warning light from TPMS, nada.

On Sunday, I take the VUE to the local tire shop and ask them to take a look at the situation - they tell me that yes, if the tires need to be replaced, I'll need to get all 4 tires. Something to do with the amount of tread and the differential. Swell. I grab a quick bite at a nearby restaurant and return after about an hour. Manager at the tire dealership tells me that the nail did not puncture the tire; it was simply embedded in the sidewall rubber. No charge for removal.

This is the second time in just a few months that I feel that the Saturn dealer has tried to pull a fast one on me. When I last took the L in for service, they tried telling me that it needed a transmission flush - uh, guys, if you'd look at your computerized records, you'd note that I had that service done about 15K miles ago. Advisor eventually came back and admitted to having overlooked that fact.

So, from here on out, no more going to the dealer for anything but warranty work. The daughter's ION needs one more trip to address a couple of rattles - the 3/36 warranty runs out next month, and the VUE has an extended warranty, but I'm going to find a local independent shop for regular maintenance.

I'm both upset and sad about this, since I've given Saturn so many $$$'s over the years and, up until recently, they have taken pretty good care of me. I guess the eventual demise of the brand has forced dealer owners and service managers to change tactics and try to get as much money from the customer as possible. Coupled with the renewed inconvenience of getting to the dealer, I think this is a pretty easy decision for me.

roadburner

roadburner, when you go to Cincinnati, do you get time to hang out or get good chili? Supposed to be a cool town...

My wife's family lives in Northern KY and my wife lived in Hyde Park before we got married, so I know my way around Cincinnati to a limited extent.

fintail

Is the idea that Japanese-built Camcords etc being superior to their North American-made siblings hold any water?

Today I got more info on the Camry my mother bought, and was surprised to see the VIN starts with a J. I wonder what percentage of the 3 zillion sold each year have that.

andre1969

I don't know if it still holds true, but the Japanese-assembled cars used to have higher quality paint than the US-assembled cars. The primer was still oil-based rather than water-based, I believe, so you didn't have to worry about the paint peeling off on the Japanese cars.

jimbres

Is the idea that Japanese-built Camcords etc being superior to their North American-made siblings hold any water?

Based on our experience with an Ohio-built '87 Accord that we kept for almost 12 years, I'd say no. That was one of the best cars we've ever owned. Even during the last few years that we had it, our repair costs were well under $1K per year. We've owned a bunch of "pure" Japanese cars, & that Accord was every bit their equal.

When we finally decided to move on to something else, it took us all of one day to find a buyer.

Still, you'll find a bunch of posters here who won't buy anything not actually built in the Home Islands.

lilengineerboy

They tell me that the damage cannot be repaired and, that since the tires have less than half their life left and that the VUE is AWD, I'll need to buy 4 tires, not just 2. They quote me a price of $600.

As my Engineering Econ professor would say, "eh es a bag of crup" (we interpreted this to mean: a bunch of crap).

So if your front and rear wheels are different diameters, they rotate at different speeds. That really frustrates the center differential. Front and rear tires wear at different rates anyway though (which is one reason you need to rotate often), so they are never exactly the same diameter anyway, so there are allowances. Most of the time the allowance is like 1/8" or something like that, you can look up the spec for your specific vehicle. If the old tires, or new tires, or any combination are within that spec, you can replace as few or as many as you'd like.

nippononly

Include me in your count, nothing but Home Islands-built from now on for any further Toyota purchases. And no, the rule concerning Japanese-built being better than NA-built doesn't apply anywhere near as much to Hondas, it's a Toyota thing.

And to answer fin, the % of Japanese-built Camrys varies by year, but in '03 it was higher than usual, so maybe 25% were from Japan. It was a VERY popular car for a while after the '02 redesign.

fintail

Interesting info, thanks. I was thinking that J shouldn't bode poorly, anyway.

Regarding the paint, I did notice the paintwork on the car was very nice...but probably because it had recently been detailed, and most of the other cars on the lot hadn't. The Corolla we drove was downright dirty. Weird small town dealer in that they don't really clean the cars, where most here detail the heck of out of what is sitting on the lot.

fintail

A friend of mine had a 92 Accord that went well over 200K miles with virtually no problems too - and he sold it the first day he put it on the market. It too was American built.

Maybe it is a Toyota thing.

michaellno

Interesting .. thanks for the analysis.

In my life, I think there has only been one time where I bought only 2 tires .. when I was a starving college student and had bought a mid 70's Olds - whatever the equivalent of the Chevy Nova was.

Anyway, it needed tires, but being poor, I only bought two. Turns out I must have mixed tire types, because that car got very squirrely the next day when driving on the highway. "Loose", as the NASCAR folks would say.

I've done a bit of research on line and have found lots and lots of tires that retail for less than $150 each. I figure that when the time comes, I can probably spend $500 or so and be perfectly happy.

The OEM Bridgestones on the VUE, IMO, are "crup". They get real greasy when the tread starts to wear. I figure we've got maybe another 5-10K left on them - they are at about 24K now, with the prospect of putting over 2K on them next week in our vacation to AZ (from CO).

roadburner

I've had extremely good luck with Tire Rack. I use them 99% of the time.

michaellno

I was poking around on the Tire Rack website yesterday, just to see what's out there.

When we bought our first VUE ('05 MY), the tire size (235/65-17) was a real oddball, and there weren't many choices available.

The new VUE ('08) has the same tire size, but Tire Rack now has 28 different choices in that size, including dedicated winter tires.

What, specifically, should I be looking for? As it's an SUV w/ AWD, ultimate performance isn't necessary - just a long lasting, smooth riding, quiet all season tire that sees a fair amount of snow in the winter.

roadburner

I put Pirelli PZero Nero M+S tires on my wife's X3 and my MS3. I've been very pleased with them in both applications. I got a screaming deal on the 235/55-17 tires for the X3- $75 each.

lmp180psu

I had the Pirellis installed on my 05 TL that I bought 3 months ago, and they are a very nice tire: quiet and a nice ride, while still having good handling. If I still have the car ( knowing me I will be looking for a 'new' car again lol) when these wear out, I will definitely look to replace them with the same thing.

woodyww

The Saturn dealer service does sound pretty awful. Altho getting good dealer service dept. advice or prices on tires can be difficult, if not impossible. Tire Rack is great, & often the phone reps give great advice, & they have good prices.

Between the ION's warranty running out, dealers shutting down, & what about getting parts--in the future??--I'd be bummed too......

michaellno

The ION has been a great little car. It will be 3 years old next month, and the daughter has only put about 25K on the clock - 2K of it was done in one trip last summer to St. George, UT and back. Only gone to the dealer once for a non-maintenance visit .. they had to replace a wheel cover and correct a rattle in the driver's door.

Same two issues have apparently cropped up again, so I'll get it back to the dealer in early June to have them take another look at it.

It may be a homely looking thing, but my daughter loves it - she's named it "Steve". It's received a couple of bumps along the way - someone backed into him in a parking lot and the front bumper has a gash in it, and someone else tried to rip off the passenger mirror housing whilst she was parked at college (the mirror is back in place, and working, with liberal use of black duct tape). I'm hoping to address both of the cosmetic issues next summer when she graduates.

Unfortunately, the kid wants a trip to Ireland as her graduation gift. Guess there is some negotiations ahead.

Sandman6472

My oldest also named her Versa the minute we drove it home. She still loves it & has finally come to terms with the sluggishness of the CVT.

The Sandman :shades:

boomchek

Hope your mother's ok after the accident.

I haven't visited Edmunds in about 5 days since I took some time off work and been house hunting with my wife.

The Camry sounds like a decent car.

We have an 08 Camry on the lot. SE version with leather, sunroof, aero kit, all the works. What a nice car it is. Makes me wanna trade in my Jeep, but then i'll hold off as I don't really need it.

fintail

My brother was driving...she wasn't in the car, which might be lucky as a younger body probably withstands the shock better. Now that her car has been settled, his claim has to be worked on. He's already had about 5K worth of medical expenses, whiplash kind of stuff.

I still can't take any kind plunge buying here...I don't see prices stabilizing yet, and I might end up moving in a few years, so I don't want to be stuck with a loss. I hope you can find a bargain, or something you want to keep for a long period. However, I just renewed my lease, and with some negotiation saved a substantial amount of money...maybe I should roll it over into a new car...nah.

I think she will have good luck with the Camry. She had to buy a warranty for it as she's worrisome about big bills, but that's one car I wouldn't be worried about, especially given its care and miles. I think it was a better choice than the Corolla - much more car for less money, and just as reliable.

boomchek

Hope your bro recovers ok.

The housing market here has stabilized a bit as prices stopped plunging.

A few condos we looked at have been sold from underneath us, and many are being sold for close to asking prices. A lot of first time buyers like us getting into the market, and some are jumping at the occasion of somewhat affordable prices in fear that they might not have this opportunity again.

We just need to buy something anyways before wife goes on mat leave, and because we need a larger place. Besides our mortgage payment would be same as our rent payment except it would be for a newer and bigger place so it makes sense to us.

woodyww

A few condos we looked at have been sold from underneath us

So much for the alledged "buyer's market". In metro-boston, in desirable towns or burbs, I don't see that prices have dropped much--they're just not going up 5-10% per year.

I was in Vancouver once--is that where you're looking? One of the coolest cities on the planet......

fintail

Good luck with your purchase. The market here continues a slow but steady decline. Kind of like resale values on the cars I like...I find it very hard to consider a newer version of my E55 as prices on all are falling like a rock, with no signs of stopping.

I also hope you get some garage space :shades:

boomchek

Thanks!

Yeah Vancouver is where we live now. We're looking at Vancouver suburbs as it's less expensive, and since the city isn't that huge, a drive from the suburb to city centre can take only 20 to 30 minutes.

boomchek

I don't think our place will have individual garage spaces, most liukely a common secured parkade.

My plan is to buy it, and in two years get into a townhouse or a normal house with garage space.

We'll see how things turn out.

Are you looking for your generation of E55 or the newer (last) generation?

fintail

Maybe you can get two spaces, anyway. I would never buy a place that didnb't have at least a common garage. If I had to park outside, I would go nuts keeping my car clean - might as well give up and lease something.

Maybe your market won't keep declining, and you can at least break even before you move on.

I see loaded W211 E55s, and I am tempted to look at them...but they are still depreciating fiercely, and my car is worth so little now I couldn't justify parting with it. The W210 E55 is one of the better performance sedan bargains out there - almost as fast as a period M5, more reliable, and actually relatively economical on the highway too. My only beef with my E55 is paint durability - it really chips easily, and that drives me nuts. It shouldn't be enough to make a sane person a compulsive car buyer.

I have seen late W211s - 05 and 06 models, that I could afford. But I have to tell myself with the W211 now being obsolete, the E55 name being obsolete, and those cars not being perfect themselves - there's nothing to do but lose a fortune on one. I also don't trust the V8 kompressor engine, although they don't have any major known faults, the huge extra part makes me leery. MB moved away from the ideal, I have to wonder why. So, I guess it is something I just play with in my head. 07 E63s are flying down in price too... I will probably hold off for a C63 in maybe 3-4 years or maybe even wait longer and see if a W212 is as good as has been claimed so far - although the styling doesn't get me excited.

boomchek

I hope the real estate market won't decline!!

As for the E class, the new one will take some time getting used to it. If yours is reliable, I'd hang on to it for at few more years.

Bad advice in a CCBA forum, but look how quiet it's been here lately, everyone's holding on to their money. The C63 AMGs will be more affordable in a few years. Heck you can pick up the last gen M3s now for $20k.

It's crazy how you can buy what pretty much is 90s supercar performance, in a 5 year old or newer car, for the price of a new Civic or Corolla.

fintail

A friend of mine bought a house locally 3 years ago...it's worth at least 20% less than what he paid, now.

I am planning to go to Europe in the fall - I plan to have car for about a week of my trip, and I might splurge and rent a W212. Of course it would be a lower line car, but it would be interesting to have it.

I always have wandering eyes when it comes to cars - but I have to be able to justify it, and the replacement car has to be special - rare model, unusual color and options, etc. With the way things depreciate, and the very few problems with my car, I can't do it.

I have seen very nice 05 C55s for about 25K, and final run W211 E55s from 2006 for around 36K. If that depreciation holds true for newer models, a C63 will be a real bargain around 2012.

boomchek

Make sure you do a lap at the Nurburgring, visit the VW factory, the new Porsche museum, and take run on a good stretch of the Autobahn. :shades:

I was planning on going to my native country Poland but since wife is pregnant we'll have to hold it off for now.

My ideal plan is to go in about 3 years, when our child will be out of it's baby stage, and take a european delivery of a MB or BMW bought here, and drive it for about 3 weeks while we're down there.

We'd hit two birds with one stone: we wouldn't have to rent a car while we're there, and we will probably need to replace one of our cars in about 3 years so this purchase/lease would fit our timing.

fintail

I am planning an itinerary in my head...I am going to visit a friend in Switzerland, so I am not going to go as far north as Wolfsburg, at least not this year - it would take too much time. In a year or two I plan to return and stick to the north. I'd also like to visit Poland, CZR etc, but that would be another couple weeks.. I can only spare two consecutive weeks as more would be difficult with work - one week split between Stuttgart and Munich, the other to dawdle a little maybe to Nuremberg and head south for a few days. At that time I will rent a car - either a C or E class. Last time I was there I didn't get a car, and I realized most places aren't as car-unfriendly as TV portrays. As you know, the public transport really is good and efficient, and I wouldn't need a car per se...but I wanna drive :shades:

I might buy a car or two while in Germany, but they will be very small. I'm going to load up on magazines and a few books Im sure.

European delivery sounds very fun - but my eyes are much bigger than my budget.

roadburner

Heck you can pick up the last gen M3s now for $20k.
It's crazy how you can buy what pretty much is 90s supercar performance, in a 5 year old or newer car, for the price of a new Civic or Corolla.

There's an Imola Red coupe for sale about an hour away from my house. I'm glad it's not any closer...

woodyww

My plan is to buy it, and in two years get into a townhouse or a normal house with garage space

The only thing I'd say is--it can be even way more difficult to sell one property, & buy another, than to go from renter to buyer. Maybe--just like the place you're buying enough to stay there for some time, in case it turns out to be harder to sell, buy again, move, etc. than you plan......

(from someone who's been to real estate Hell, & back, several times)

akangl

I've had extremely good luck with Tire Rack. I use them 99% of the time.

I second that! They are wonderful, I bought my winter wheels/tires/tire pressure sensors from them 2 years ago. Had to call them a few weeks ago to get a new centering ring after the stupid local shop lost one of mine when they were doing a brake inspection on the Pilot. Nobody local had one, I called the Tire Rack, they pulled up my old order, saw what wheels I had, and I had the ring in 2 days.

I plan on ordering my new winter tires from them next time as well, just have to get them mounted locally *grumble*.

I had the opposite experience with independent vs dealer, the independent shop tried to rip me off, took the Pilot to the dealer, they were awesome, fixed it for $150 vs the $450 the independent shop quoted. I pretty much use the dealer for everything now, they earned my business after that.

tifighter

If you are in Munich and are even thinking about any kind of car tour, try to see the Audi facility in Ingolstadt...it's incredible. One hour outside Munich. The BMW center in Munich is not even close...

fintail

Already on my itinerary :shades:

I like to plan things, and I want this little journey to be paid for before I go, so I am laying down the groundwork now. I plan to stop in Ingolstadt as I drive up to Nuremberg, and then onto Wolfsburg as it looks like I won't be spending much time in Switzerland now. More car time...I might even stop by Ford-Werke and Opel to take some pics.

tifighter

Shame about losing time in Switzerland; of course, I work for a swiss company and am biased. Which part were you going to go to?

fintail

I still might go for a day or two...my schedule is really packed, but I think I am going to cut one of the day trips in Munich that I wouldn't have had enough time to properly do anyway, and add that time to Switzerland.

I am most likely going to enter Switzerland after spending a few hours at the Schlumpf museum, spend the night in Zurich, then head to Dornbirn (A) and check out the Rolls Royce museum and stay a night before going back to Germany. If the weather is nice I might make it a long day trip and go via Innsbruck. The rental car is costing a bit, so might as well use it. And I want to pass through Liechtenstein, as I have never been able to make it there before.

woodyww

I once lived for a few months in Switzerland, in the French part, in a small skiing village above Geneva. Beautiful, Beautiful, + good wine & food. The Swiss are very civilized too; I later traveled thru the South of France, & that was only slightly better than "Easy Rider".

Easy to spend a whole vacation in Switzerland. But the rich food, & beer, are great in Germany......

fintail

I have been there briefly before, but never alone. Switzerland is amazing to me in that it is so green - and I live in a green area. Very civilized, and not cheap.

I was going to spend a night in France before I go to Mulhouse, but I think I will stay across the river and up a little in Germany - looks nicer, and it is a short drive, not a big deal when Schlumpf doesn't open til 10 anyway. On a few parts of this trip, I am going to feel like Clark Griswold..."this pig in the poke itinerary is great, they've got it planned down to the minute" or something... :shades:

woodyww

I talked to a woman about 10 years ago who had just bought a new e39 540i SPP 6 speed stick euro-delivery, & had driven around Germany at high speeds with her kids. That was impressive to me.

I'd say, even if your euro-trip is like "if today is Tuesday, it must be Belgium", it can be so worth it, but sounds like you know all that and are doing precise planning. Amsterdam is very worthwhile too, if I were forced to pick only one city in Europe to visit again, it'd be high on the list.....

fintail

That woman has a lucky husband. Most I know would be in heaven to pick up a new RX at the local high end mall.

I am not a fan of bus trips and guided tours. I am taking this trip primarily because my employer is instituting limits on the paid time off we can accumulate, so I have to blow through a pile of it by the end of the year or it is lost. Most people would pray to have such a predicament, I know. I have a hard time taking more than 2 weeks or so off at a time, so I have to be efficient. I've been wanting to see the new German museums, and I have never been to Autostadt etc - so this is a good excuse to do it. I'll have some days with 6 hours or so spent driving, and some days where I don't drive at all - I will have a car for 8 days. Oh yeah, and I do plan to cross into Netherlands and Belgium just for a bit, to add countries to the list. I don't know if I could narrow it down to one city.

Sandman6472

Was there last weekend with my oldest and had a great time. Thought only South Florida and California had car crazy folks but saw many nice rides out there...many foreign brands also. Figured the midwest would have more Detroit made iron on the roadways. Cousins drove us throughout the downtown area...mighty nice I must say. New Yorkesque in many areas and no shortage of "crazy-as_ed" drivers on the streets.

Great sites and time was had by us "southerners"!

The Sandman :shades:

lilengineerboy

I have 2 friends that did Euro delivery of a 335i. Both said it was a blast. When I was in HS and younger, I knew people that got their 300TD wagon (estate?) Euro delivery, and one of the families in my neighborhood did that with a Volvo every 7 years or so.

It sounds like a great way to get a car and a vacation as a package.